The Grand Jury & Trial

[DaleTray]

I still haven't been able to find a link to verifiable info that states the email from daycare was sent because Cooper hadn't been dropped off, and that the defendant is known to have seen and/or opened the email.

I find it difficult to believe that both facts are known- the email was related to Cooper's absence, and the defendant saw/opened it.

If both facts are known to be true, what's the question? He's guilty of malice murder and every other charge.

I have wondered about this email as well. Det. Stoddard states daycare sent a group email with no description of email details. I have seen no info if JRH saw the email or did or did not reply to email. What I did find is where a friend of LH that had moved to Alaska received a lot of emails from LH and said LH even forwarded some of the daily emails from daycare which leaves me to assume emails were of general nature rather than inquiring location of baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/12/u...ruct-fathers-role-in-toddlers-death.html?_r=0
Cooper was born in August 2012, and the couple bombarded Ms. A _odaca, who lives in Alaska, with photographs and videos of the child. Ms. Harris would even forward Cooper’s daily day care email.
“All I saw from either of them was love for that little boy,” Ms. A _ odaca said.

 

[TeaTime]

Good points, all.

IMO what's troublesome (more generally than this case) is giving the State the power to charge and potentially convict for murder in a situation like this, even if there was no intent to kill and the tragedy was genuinely an accident.

A felony charge for second-degree child cruelty in an accidental case seems pretty harsh, a murder charge IMO goes too far. jmo.

You may not feel this way if RH was your child's bus driver and left him/her in the bus strapped into a wheelchair to die of heat stroke.

 

[Hope4More]

I have wondered about this email as well. Det. Stoddard states daycare sent a group email with no description of email details. I have seen no info if JRH saw the email or did or did not reply to email. What I did find is where a friend of LH that had moved to Alaska received a lot of emails from LH and said LH even forwarded some of the daily emails from daycare which leaves me to assume emails were of general nature rather than inquiring location of baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/12/u...ruct-fathers-role-in-toddlers-death.html?_r=0
Cooper was born in August 2012, and the couple bombarded Ms. A _odaca, who lives in Alaska, with photographs and videos of the child. Ms. Harris would even forward Cooper’s daily day care email.
“All I saw from either of them was love for that little boy,” Ms. A _ odaca said.

Stoddard said a GROUP email? Question answered, thanks.

 

[Hope4More]

You may not feel this way if RH was your child's bus driver and left him/her in the bus strapped into a wheelchair to die of heat stroke.

Once again, I was not referring to this defendant or to this specific case, nor to non-parent caretakers or custodians or incidentally responsible 3rd parties.

I am uncomfortable, disturbed, and bothered by laws which allow the State to press felony murder charges against a PARENT who made an incomprehensibly horrible ACCIDENTAL mistake that resulted in their child's death.

 

[Magdalyn]

Another Georgia case for consideration:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/daycare-owner-one-of-first-to-be-charged-under-new/nhbCb/

A former Alpharetta daycare owner was indicted on second-degree murder and child cruelty charges in the July death of a 3-year-old in her care, according to the Fulton County District Attorney’s Office.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/daycare-owner-one-of-first-to-be-charged-under-new/nhbCb/

“It’s actually easier for the prosecutors to prove because they don’t have to prove malicious intent,” Abt said. “All they have to prove that there was neglect on the part of the adult.”

Prior to the second degree murder law, those accused in similar crimes were likely charged with involuntary manslaughter, which allows a maximum prison sentence of 10 years on a conviction. The sentence for a second degree murder conviction ranges from 10 to 30 years.

In some previous cases, felony murder was too harsh but manslaughter not harsh enough, Coomer said.

 

[MsMarple]

I have wondered about this email as well. Det. Stoddard states daycare sent a group email with no description of email details. I have seen no info if JRH saw the email or did or did not reply to email. What I did find is where a friend of LH that had moved to Alaska received a lot of emails from LH and said LH even forwarded some of the daily emails from daycare which leaves me to assume emails were of general nature rather than inquiring location of baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/12/u...ruct-fathers-role-in-toddlers-death.html?_r=0
Cooper was born in August 2012, and the couple bombarded Ms. A _odaca, who lives in Alaska, with photographs and videos of the child. Ms. Harris would even forward Cooper’s daily day care email.
“All I saw from either of them was love for that little boy,” Ms. A _ odaca said.

That's what I remember too, that it was a group email and not about Cooper being absent:

1:53 p.m. ET: During the day, Harris received an e-mail from daycare: "He received a group email from his teacher, Cooper's teacher... and that email came in around 1:30 p.m.," said Stoddard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/03/justin-ross-harris-cooper-toddler-hot-car-death-live-blog

There's been no mention that I know of that Ross did or did not open the email but he must have seen the notification since he spent much of his day texting/sexting. It's surprising that seeing the email come in didn't "reboot" his memory of having left Cooper strapped into his car seat. Regardless, IMO the jury will have a hard time with Ross researching hot car deaths because he was terrified of forgetting Cooper yet he took zero steps to avoid it. Then add that he was "distracted" that morning because he was texting with a married woman and the conversation just so happened to be about needing escape from his relationship. That may be a little too coincidental for the jurors.

 

[Nali87]

That's what I remember too, that it was a group email and not about Cooper being absent:

1:53 p.m. ET: During the day, Harris received an e-mail from daycare: "He received a group email from his teacher, Cooper's teacher... and that email came in around 1:30 p.m.," said Stoddard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/03/justin-ross-harris-cooper-toddler-hot-car-death-live-blog

There's been no mention that I know of that Ross did or did not open the email but he must have seen the notification since he spent much of his day texting/sexting. It's surprising that seeing the email come in didn't "reboot" his memory of having left Cooper strapped into his car seat. Regardless, IMO the jury will have a hard time with Ross researching hot car deaths because he was terrified of forgetting Cooper yet he took zero steps to avoid it. Then add that he was "distracted" that morning because he was texting with a married woman and the conversation just so happened to be about needing escape from his relationship. That may be a little too coincidental for the jurors.

And the fact that the turn to go in the direction of the daycare was literally 30 seconds away. Is it really possible to forget about a kid less than a minute after strapping him in?

 

[MsMarple]

Juror 28: a private investigator, said he knew little about the case and didn’t think he’d have any trouble being fair.
Juror 29: “He’s guilty,” she said under questioning. She told co-workers she didn’t think she’d be picked to serve on the jury because “I’ve already judged him.”
Juror 30: told attorneys Tuesday that he would not be able to be impartial toward Harris.
...
A fourth juror interviewed before the lunchtime break was less certain, though she said she thinks she can retain an open mind. She was also asked about a family member’s sex addiction, which is likely to be part of Ross Harris’ defense.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/ross-harris-demonstrates-rare-emotion-as-jury-sele/nq7j7/

THe count is still at 16.

Ryan Kerns ‏@RyanKernsEsq 54s54 seconds ago
Back from lunch with Potential Juror #32 in the #hotcardeath #RossHarris murder trial.

 

[Magdalyn]

Once again, I was not referring to this defendant or to this specific case, nor to non-parent caretakers or custodians or incidentally responsible 3rd parties.

I am uncomfortable, disturbed, and bothered by laws which allow the State to press felony murder charges against a PARENT who made an incomprehensibly horrible ACCIDENTAL mistake that resulted in their child's death.

I've yet to see anyone charged in this state for murder or criminal neglect for what, upon investigation, are obvious 'accidental deaths'. These charges appear to be reserved where they feel criminal neglect lead to the death.

I actually am frustrated more parents/caregivers aren't charged with criminal neglect in some of these cases. Rayne Perrywinkle, Isabella Grogan-Canella's mom to name a few. One parent endangered her child by handing her off to a strange man, the other spent the day smoking meth with the killer and grandma, then left the kids with the felon would-be killer she'd smoked meth with and the 'sleeping' meth smoking grandma.

IMO, parents, being the primary caregivers should be held to the highest standard in caring for their children. If they neglect their child due to selfish indifference, drugs, alcohol, sex addiction sexting, and the child ends up dead as a result, they should have to face the same charges as a unrelated caregiver if they did the same thing.

 

[MsMarple]

And the fact that the turn to go in the direction was literally 30 seconds away. Is it really possible to forget about a kid less than a minute after strapping him in?

According to Dr. Diamond it is. I'm not sure I'm buying it in this particular case; the daycare workers have said that when Cooper arrived on mornings after his dad took him to breakfast he was always awake, happy and excited. Yet another coincidence the jury will have to consider - that Cooper must have fallen asleep during the short ride.

 

[Hope4More]

Another Georgia case for consideration:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/daycare-owner-one-of-first-to-be-charged-under-new/nhbCb/



http://www.ajc.com/news/news/daycare-owner-one-of-first-to-be-charged-under-new/nhbCb/

A much clearer example of actual criminal negligence. She broke the law by having too many children than she could care for, and a tragedy of that nature was foreseeable.

2 counts of murder, though.... That's pretty steep for no intent.

 

[Hope4More]

And the fact that the turn to go in the direction was literally 30 seconds away. Is it really possible to forget about a kid less than a minute after strapping him in?

It was not 30 seconds. It wasn't very long- between 1.15 and 2 minutes, but it was not 30 seconds. 30 seconds is impossible to believe. 1-2 minutes is an extremely short time, but plausible, at least in theory.

 

[Nali87]

According to Dr. Diamond it is. I'm not sure I'm buying it in this particular case; the daycare workers have said that when Cooper arrived on mornings after his dad took him to breakfast he was always awake, happy and excited. Yet another coincidence the jury will have to consider - that Cooper must have fallen asleep during the short ride.

I think the DT will argue that the fact that he send texts during the murder shows he wasn't aware he did anything "malicious". As in otherwise he would have kept his phone "clean", knowing that the Police Department might check on him. But I think that they really overestimate Ross. I think he did some basic legal research and figured; "Eh, if it's an accident they can't search my phone. I'm safe." and continued with his sexing ways.

It's the same reason that ***** turned off her cellphone in AZ; they know a little bit of how the law works and seem to think they'll be able to get away with their crimes.

 

[MsMarple]

It was not 30 seconds. It wasn't very long- between 1.15 and 2 minutes, but it was not 30 seconds. 30 seconds is impossible to believe. 1-2 minutes is an extremely short time, but plausible, at least in theory.

I think Nali is referring to the point where Ross turned the wrong way:

1:45 p.m. ET: It took 30-40 seconds for Stoddard to get from Chick-fil-A to the stoplight where Harris would have had to turn to go to daycare instead of work. Harris told investigators he had no distractions (like a phone call) on his way to work, according to Stoddard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/03/justin-ross-harris-cooper-toddler-hot-car-death-live-blog

 

[Hope4More]

According to Dr. Diamond it is. I'm not sure I'm buying it in this particular case; the daycare workers have said that when Cooper arrived on mornings after his dad took him to breakfast he was always awake, happy and excited. Yet another coincidence the jury will have to consider - that Cooper must have fallen asleep during the short ride.

That's pretty significant, IMO. I would definitely take what was normal for Cooper into account if I were a juror.


Another piece, if introduced, is what friends have said about the defendant: that he was a man of routine and habit, even to the extent of always ordering the exact same meal every time he went to the exact same places to eat out.

Is a person of habit and routine more or less likely to reach that intersection and forget to make the turn towards Cooper's daycare?

 

[Nali87]

It was not 30 seconds. It wasn't very long- between 1.15 and 2 minutes, but it was not 30 seconds. 30 seconds is impossible to believe. 1-2 minutes is an extremely short time, but plausible, at least in theory.

I thought it was 30 seconds to come to the road where he had to turn left or right out of the Chik-fil-A parking lot, and then 2 to 3 minute drive to work.

 

[Hope4More]

I think Nali is referring to the point where Ross turned the wrong way:

1:45 p.m. ET: It took 30-40 seconds for Stoddard to get from Chick-fil-A to the stoplight where Harris would have had to turn to go to daycare instead of work. Harris told investigators he had no distractions (like a phone call) on his way to work, according to Stoddard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/03/justin-ross-harris-cooper-toddler-hot-car-death-live-blog

So am I. The most recent tick-tock by the AJC was based on a journalist recreating the drive multiple times. Shortest time from CF to intersection- 1.15 minutes, longest- 2 minutes.

 

[Nali87]

So am I. The most recent tick-tock by the AJC was based on a journalist recreating the drive multiple times. Shortest time from CF to intersection- 1.15 minutes, longest- 2 minutes.

Ok, I didn't see that new detail. Thanks. I guess plenty of jurors will be tempted to take that drive.

0:30 to 1:15 minutes, that's really not a long time though. He had just spend the morning with the kid and had strapped him in. I don't know. I don't buy it. He wasn't in a particulary hurry to get to work or anything.

 

[Magdalyn]

A much clearer example of actual criminal negligence. She broke the law by having too many children than she could care for, and a tragedy of that nature was foreseeable.

2 counts of murder, though.... That's pretty steep for no intent.

We see it differently. He didn't die because she had 7 children instead of 6. (While it was against the law for a daycare provider, there are parents who have twice that many children, and none 'accidentally' end up dead.) He died because she left him outside, unattended, in an unsafe environment. Was receiving and making calls while he was strangling.

Ross left his kid inside a car, unattended, in an unsafe environment. The tragedy was foreseeable. Hot car deaths were his biggest fear. But he was super busy with his super important sexting.

If my child's daycare provider left my child alone on the playground, and he strangled to death as a result, 10 years would not be long enough. But that's just me...

It will be up to a jury to decide if it's a clear example, I suppose! :fence:

 

[Magdalyn]

I thought it was 30 seconds to come to the road where he had to turn left or right out of the Chik-fil-A parking lot, and then 2 to 3 minute drive to work.

If that's the case, then he allegedly 'forgot him' 30 seconds after he buckled him in, because if he'd 'remembered', he'd have turned to go toward daycare?