The Grand Jury & Trial

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  • #1,021
Does anyone know if Ross had tinted windows?

Wasn't a lady found dead in a car in a Walmart parking lot while her car was there for weeks.

I'm just curious to see him rein act the light bulb drop off at lunch time.

Because no one ever just throws light bulbs nor eggs in the car. Jmo. He may be guilty.
 
  • #1,022
Thanks. Very handy. No way does he forget the kid in those 30 seconds.

And I don't agree with the "Leave the kid in the care in front of his work while he jumped in for a little bit" argument either. I think he would have opened a window or something since he googled and KNEW the risks involved regarding leaving children locked in a hot car.

I think he was late (and parked further away) on purpose just so that the majority of people would have already gone inside the buildings and wouldn't see Cooper in the car.

I hear ya. But he was late frequently, so that doesn't ring true to me that he was late to avoid people so he could leave the boy to die. I think he did park far away so people wouldn't see him leave Cooper in the car, though.

I see him as a risk-taker - he was willing to leave Cooper while he made an appearance at work, even when his wife tried to teach him how dangerous it was to leave a child in a car. He liked to get away with things, like sexting behind his wife's back.

JMOpinion
 
  • #1,023
If you're running late for work; You obviously don't take your toddler in for breakfast. That is a process of its own. You simply go through a drive through and grab something quick.

So if he claims the I was running late crap. Then the prosecution will hammer him on the dine in breakfast with the child. Jmo
 
  • #1,024
Does anyone know if Ross had tinted windows?

Wasn't a lady found dead in a car in a Walmart parking lot while her car was there for weeks.

I'm just curious to see him rein act the light bulb drop off at lunch time.

Because no one ever just throws light bulbs nor eggs in the car. Jmo. He may be guilty.

hotsuv.jpg

Yeah, not only did he carelessly toss the lightbulbs - with his head turned to the front of the car - he didn't even tell LE about his lunchtime visit to the car. He admitted it when LE showed him CCTV video of him going to the car. I doubt he'd "forget" such an important detail so why exactly would he keep it a secret?
 
  • #1,025
If you're running late for work; You obviously don't take your toddler in for breakfast. That is a process of its own. You simply go through a drive through and grab something quick.

So if he claims the I was running late crap. Then the prosecution will hammer him on the dine in breakfast with the child. Jmo

He was running late AND he went out for breakfast because the guy is immature, takes risks, and is lazy. I'm telling you, he is! :) This was how the guy operated.

Most people show up on time for work, and if they are running late, they figure out a way to get there as soon as possible, not stopping to order & eat inside. But Ross was regularly late, and his way of addressing it that day was to save time at the very last minute by leaving Cooper in car while he made an appearance in the office. Leaving Cooper in the car was a sloppy, risky, CYA move....and he forgot he made it once he got inside and was distracted by his....um...device.

JMO.
 
  • #1,026
I hear ya. But he was late frequently, so that doesn't ring true to me that he was late to avoid people so he could leave the boy to die. I think he did park far away so people wouldn't see him leave Cooper in the car, though.

I see him as a risk-taker - he was willing to leave Cooper while he made an appearance at work, even when his wife tried to teach him how dangerous it was to leave a child in a car. He liked to get away with things, like sexting behind his wife's back.

JMOpinion

I can't see it. If he's leaving the kid behind on purpose, he's going to open a window. You can be a risk taker, yes, but leaving your kid in a locked car with the windows shut? People open the windows for a bit for DOGS. No way a father doesn't do the same for his kid. And Ross has been watching and researching people and animals dying in cars more than once at that point.

And if he did, then this is clearly felony murder.
 
  • #1,027
I don't think Ross forgot him on the drive, I think he forgot him while at work. I think he meant to leave Cooper in the car, but just for a minute or two while he made an appearance at work. He was late for work, again, and he wanted to "check in." I think he intended to return to the car and bring Cooper to daycare, but forgot.

His ex-wife claims she is the one who searched for hot-car deaths. I think she did this because Ross had used the car as a short-term babysitter in the past, and it scared his ex-wife. She wanted to prove to him how dangerous it was. When she found out Ross didn't drop off Cooper, I think she knew what happened - he forgot him in the car.

My gut tells me he "forgot" Cooper, but because he had done this in the past, it was a neglectant habit of his. He put his son in danger. He took a terrible risk with his child's life and that is his responsibility.

I'm tempted to lean toward a deliberate act of murder because of his immature attitude toward marriage, but my stronger hunch is that he forgot Cooper in the car while he was in the office, not when he was in the car. He didn't intend to kill Cooper, but that's what happened from his taking a known risk. He remembered during the day, but it was too late. He knew he had a track record of leaving Cooper (my speculation), and he covered his actions with the phony discovery on the way to the movies.

JMOpinion.




I really think that is the most plausible scenario, in part because it explains a lot of what otherwise doesn’t make sense.

He began texting with a woman on Whisper at 8:55.19, while still in CF, or as he was leaving CF, or when he first got into his car. I’m assuming he was supposed to be at work at 9AM, which means he was already running late/cutting it close, even without the time it would take to drop Cooper off at daycare.

He didn’t forget in 30 seconds or 1 minute or 2 that Cooper was in the car. As you said, he took Cooper to work so he wouldn’t be late, intending to clock in or be seen, and go right back out to drive Cooper to daycare.

He wasn’t paying attention to people in the parking lot because he had no reason to care. He was checking his phone because his mind was on the Whisper woman (WW)—not Cooper, and not on work.

The timing of the next texts supports this scenario as well. No texts after 8:55:19 until IIRC, around 9:12. The amount of time it would have taken to get inside the building, and do whatever first things. WW sent a text, he sent a text, the texts went on until around 9:23 or so, again IIRC. Long enough to have thoughts about Cooper replaced by whatever he was thinking while texting with WW.

It makes no sense that he’d deliberately bring Cooper to work (or anywhere else, IMO) and “forget him” if it was standard daycare policy to follow up with the parents of unexcused children who were expected to be there. He’d have to be concerned that the daycare would contact LeAnne if they couldn’t reach him.

One problem for Ross is that telling the truth about what happened wouldn’t help him much, if at all, if this is what happened. He’d have to confess to LE and to LeAnne that he intentionally left Cooper in the car for no better reason that he went into work and forgot about him.

If this is what happened, then I don’t believe it’s possible he went to his car at lunchtime without realizing he’d left Cooper there, in that hot car, for hours. IMO he’d have had to realize Cooper was either dead or in critical condition. Buying and then throwing the lightbulbs in his car becomes a likely way for him to have looked at Cooper briefly, to see if he was already dead, without having to decide what to do next. He didn't tell LE about his lunch time trip to the car because neither explanation would help him--he returned to the car without realizing even then he'd left Cooper there, or that he saw Cooper and knew he was dead but did nothing.

It will be interesting (though not conclusive) to see if his text records evidence indicate whether or not he stopped texting after lunch, or if he returned from lunch and kept right on texting.

Knowing that Cooper was already dead makes sense of his call to friends that he’d be late to the movie although he had more than ample time to not only be on time but to be early. The screeching into a parking lot—staged, but also a product of adrenaline, same as his hostility to LE when they arrived.

I can believe he did cry and get very emotional at the scene before LE arrived. He didn’t do CPR because he knew Cooper had died hours before, but because I don’t believe he intended to kill his son, I can believe he felt genuine grief (in his own fashion), and this was his first opportunity to express it. Briefly, because since he had known for hours Cooper was dead he had had hours to think about what he was going to tell LE, and they were on their way.

His—“I didn’t want to imagine how he’d look “ was his way of telling LeAnne what had happened, and that he felt “remorse.” Her lack of affect then and afterwards was perhaps because she blamed herself for allowing Ross to drive Cooper again, after he’d repeatedly demonstrated negligence.

So… not malice murder, but if this scenario is accurate, I’d be on board with throwing the book at him.


ETA- even if this isn't what happened, he'd be better off IMO he told this story, rather than to insult the intelligence and sentiments of an unsympathetic jury by claiming his brain got scrambled and his son died a horrible death because he had a sexual addiction that led him to sext with 6 women while Cooper died, in severe pain, alone.
 
  • #1,028
http://noheatstroke.org

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/2-Year-Old-Girl-Dies-After-Being-Trapped-in-Hot-Car-316999911.html

http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html

Apparently there have been 3 heat related deaths of children already this year. The injuries to Cooper may have been self inflicted during major seizure activity. I didn't realize that the car seat position recommendations had changed in the last 5 years to where children at least until the age of two (or whenever they meet height/weight after 2), need to ride in a rear facing car seat. It makes sense as if they were riding forward facing, and impact comes from the front, they could otherwise sustain spinal injuries.
 
  • #1,029
I don't think the judge is going to let that happen. Right now each side has 9 free strikes once the jury pool is in place so technically they can off 18 jurors. I believe the judge can grant additional peremptory challenges if she wishes due to the high profile aspect of the case. So while it may take even longer to assemble a jury pool it isn't impossible to end up with a fair jury. JMO of course.

But I agree that some of the jurors make me want to smack myself upside the head - it's on Ross to prove he's innocent? Really? :banghead:

I follow trials and more than understand presumed innocence and the burden to prove guilt.

I'm in Georgia, have been exposed to probably more Cooper Harris/Ross Harris stuff than people who live outside Georgia. I haven't met a single person who hasn't heard of this case and formed an opinion on what we know now . (Haven't met a person IRL who thinks he's innocent, btw.)

Were I asked by the judge/lawyers if I've formed an opinion I'd say "yes, I lean towards guilt of malice or felony murder. But, if I were presented ALL the facts/evidence/testimony, I might be convinced he's innocent." I wouldn't be saying it because I misunderstand law, I'd be saying it because it's the truth for me in regards to this case and the exposure I've had. If I were chosen to be on the jury (I don't think I would be. or I'd be struck), I wouldn't be starting from a neutral/no opinion standpoint. I already have a leaning. I'd be leaning towards guilt, but open to changing my mind.

If 1 (one) were "already decided innocent/won't change my mind" and 10 (ten) were "already decided guilt/won't change my mind" and 5 were "No opinion/haven't heard of these people, am completely neutral and can be fair and impartial ... I'm a 7/8. So If asked could I judge him fairly, as a 7/8 the honest answer is "After seeing all the facts of the case, I might be convinced he's innocent." I *know* that's not how this works. (that's not how any of this works, lol) That's what I'd have to say, being honest with the judge on my leanings and if I've formed an opinion.

I'd hope people wouldn't think I was an idiot and that I didn't understand the law by answering truthfully.
 
  • #1,030
That he might well not have "seen" it I can easily believe. I drive my son to and from school everyday, same route, same time, and I don't "see" any particular place or building or thing along the way because I don't need to. It's background noise because everything about the drive is so entirely familiar. My focus is almost always entirely on the conversation I'm having with my DS, and if he's too moody or tired or whatever to talk and we're silent, then I'm thinking about whatever, am internally focused, but definitely not noticing or paying attention to anything other than stop signs, traffic lights, and the traffic I'm in.

I think that's pretty typical.

This^^^ and if DT presents debit/credit card statements that show RH had a CFA purchase every workday morning, even when he didn't have CH ... well, I just know that I have zombie brain during my commutes, so I could see the turn to the daycare being forgotten. (But I'm still on the fence and READY for some opening statements!!)


I'm so glad to see all of you on this thread gearing up for this trial!! :happydance: hugs to my peeps! :loveyou:
 
  • #1,031
Does anyone know if Ross had tinted windows?

Wasn't a lady found dead in a car in a Walmart parking lot while her car was there for weeks.

I'm just curious to see him rein act the light bulb drop off at lunch time.

Because no one ever just throws light bulbs nor eggs in the car. Jmo. He may be guilty.

Nope. But he wanted to be seen doing that jmo
 
  • #1,032
Does anyone know if Ross had tinted windows?

Wasn't a lady found dead in a car in a Walmart parking lot while her car was there for weeks.

I'm just curious to see him rein act the light bulb drop off at lunch time.

Because no one ever just throws light bulbs nor eggs in the car. Jmo. He may be guilty.

The one picture I viewed is that the windows were tinted tho not completely dark. Cooper would not be visible either ( windshields aren't supposed to be tinted much). But from the side..unless someone walking by the vehicle was looking inside ( face close to windows)..Cooper wouldn't have been noticed at all!

But given his head injuries and scratches to his face/neck area..I would assume he would have been screaming too. BUT in a parking garage and vehicle location plus how well today's vehicles are sealed..his Cries were never heard!! :facepalm:
 
  • #1,033
That he might well not have "seen" it I can easily believe. I drive my son to and from school everyday, same route, same time, and I don't "see" any particular place or building or thing along the way because I don't need to. It's background noise because everything about the drive is so entirely familiar. My focus is almost always entirely on the conversation I'm having with my DS, and if he's too moody or tired or whatever to talk and we're silent, then I'm thinking about whatever, am internally focused, but definitely not noticing or paying attention to anything other than stop signs, traffic lights, and the traffic I'm in.

I think that's pretty typical.

I understand what you are saying. I just think that it is hard not to see the SSC when that is your final destination. Since it is never a destination for you, I understand how it's just background noise. For JRH, it was his destination so those buildings would be very hard to miss. There are so many times when something should have jarred his memory about Cooper still being in the car...
 
  • #1,034
He didn’t do CPR because he knew Cooper had died hours before, but because I don’t believe he intended to kill his son, I can believe he felt genuine grief (in his own fashion), and this was his first opportunity to express it. I believe he did in fact RH did do CPR. Some witnesses say they witnessed CPR some say they didn't witness it. But a couple of witnesses commented on RH removing CH from car and lay him on the hot asphalt which they thought unusual.

His—“I didn’t want to imagine how he’d look “. We still don't know for sure RH made this statement or who reported he made this statement. In Stoddard's report and testimony he says it was alleged RH made this statement.


ETA- even if this isn't what happened, he'd be better off IMO he told this story, rather than to insult the intelligence and sentiments of an unsympathetic jury by claiming his brain got scrambled and his son died a horrible death because he had a sexual addiction that led him to sext with 6 women while Cooper died, in severe pain, alone.

I am not sure if I would agree this could be a preferred defense. It shows he intentionally left CH in the car. I think the jury would be a little more sympathetic with the "I just plain forgot my son in my car"
I think your entire scenario is highly possible. If it is true, I would agree that it will be interesting to see when the sexting stops. I believe an abrupt halt to the sexting was the second RH remembered CH.........or.....RH had an instant "oh _hit" moment just as he was about to open the car door at lunch to place bulbs inside. I am not so sure RH would have requested his friends make a lunchtime bulb run if RH knew Conner had been in car all morning.
 
  • #1,035
I am not so sure RH would have requested his friends make a lunchtime bulb run if RH knew Conner had been in car all morning.

Snipped by me

Possible reasons he stopped for lightbulbs that jive with him either 1) forgetting Cooper on purpose, or 2) forgetting him on accident, or 3) leaving him the car just for a minute with the intention of returning to bring him to daycare but forgetting about him:

* Bringing the lightbulbs to the car gave him an opportunity to "discover" Cooper with his friends to witness his horror when he "realized" he forgot Cooper. This didn't work out.

* Bringing the lightbulbs to the car gave him the opportunity to confirm his fear that he left Cooper too long in the car and he passed away.

* He really did need lightbulbs and tossing them in the car did not jog his memory whatsoever.

JMO
 
  • #1,036
Snipped by me

Possible reasons he stopped for lightbulbs that jive with him either 1) forgetting Cooper on purpose, or 2) forgetting him on accident, or 3) leaving him the car just for a minute with the intention of returning to bring him to daycare but forgetting about him:

* Bringing the lightbulbs to the car gave him an opportunity to "discover" Cooper with his friends to witness his horror when he "realized" he forgot Cooper. This didn't work out.

* Bringing the lightbulbs to the car gave him the opportunity to confirm his fear that he left Cooper too long in the car and he passed away.

* He really did need lightbulbs and tossing them in the car did not jog his memory whatsoever.

JMO
I honestly have been leaning toward he actually did in fact need the bulbs. I am guessing LH had asked for bulbs and RH wanted to get them at lunchtime as the 3 guys had decided at lunch to go see a movie after work and RH would need HR's approval. When RH called or texted LH potentially in the afternoon to ask for permission to go see movie with friends he could preempt his request something along the lines of "Hey honey, I grabbed those bulbs at lunch, man the lines were long. Hey, the guys invited me to an after work movie......"
 
  • #1,037
He didn’t do CPR because he knew Cooper had died hours before, but because I don’t believe he intended to kill his son, I can believe he felt genuine grief (in his own fashion), and this was his first opportunity to express it. I believe he did in fact RH did do CPR. Some witnesses say they witnessed CPR some say they didn't witness it. But a couple of witnesses commented on RH removing CH from car and lay him on the hot asphalt which they thought unusual.

His—“I didn’t want to imagine how he’d look “. We still don't know for sure RH made this statement or who reported he made this statement. In Stoddard's report and testimony he says it was alleged RH made this statement.


ETA- even if this isn't what happened, he'd be better off IMO he told this story, rather than to insult the intelligence and sentiments of an unsympathetic jury by claiming his brain got scrambled and his son died a horrible death because he had a sexual addiction that led him to sext with 6 women while Cooper died, in severe pain, alone.[/QUOTE I am not sure if I would agree this could be a preferred defense. It shows he intentionally left CH in the car. I think the jury would be a little more sympathetic with the "I just plain forgot my son in my car"
I think your entire scenario is highly possible. If it is true, I would agree that it will be interesting to see when the sexting stops. I believe an abrupt halt to the sexting was the second RH remembered CH.........or.....RH had an instant "oh _hit" moment just as he was about to open the car door at lunch to place bulbs inside. I am not so sure RH would have requested his friends make a lunchtime bulb run if RH knew Conner had been in car all morning.


The jury might be more sympathetic to "I forgot" if they believed it was possible for him to forget his son was in the car within no longer than 2 minutes of strapping him into his carseat.

Based on the comments here, public opinion where the trial is taking place, and the fact most potential jurors so far doing voire dire find that incomprehensible or a lie, I think it's a really tough sell, and if I were his defense counsel, a narrative I would prefer not to tell.

If jurors don't believe his I forgot account, IMO they'll be far more likely to make the leap from seeing him not just as an unforgivably negligent father and a cheating spouse who is so lacking in morality and conscience that he solicits sexual exchanges with minors, but as a lying coward who might well be capable of killing his son.
 
  • #1,038
If you're running late for work; You obviously don't take your toddler in for breakfast. That is a process of its own. You simply go through a drive through and grab something quick.

So if he claims the I was running late crap. Then the prosecution will hammer him on the dine in breakfast with the child. Jmo


Or, he might have been on schedule originally but lost track of time at CF because he was focused on scrolling through his list of who to sext next.
 
  • #1,039
I have kind of been all over the place on this one. When all of the reports of the shady behavior first came out right after Cooper's tragic death, I thought he was definitely guilty of premeditated murder. Once some of the original statements were partially "walked back" or weren't exactly what they seemed at first (e.g., his reported behavior when putting the lightbulbs in the car, contrasted with what the video actually showed, or the email from the daycare that was later reported to be more of a "blast" type email, to name a few), then I began to question my initial impressions. I think that the guy is a 🤬🤬🤬, and he may get convicted for that reason alone. It isn't totally out of the question to me that he got caught up in his own obsessions that day, and had no thought for anyone but his own selfish needs, including Cooper, but didn't actually plan to kill him. But I am waiting on all of the evidence to emerge before I make my decision on whether I think he is truly guilty of intentional, malice murder. At this point, I could truly go either way, depending on what the evidence shows. As to the felony murder charge, it seems like they have a better chance of making that stick, based on the way the law is written, IMO.
 
  • #1,040
Like you ColtsFan, I've waffled with this one as well. Mostly, I really want this to have been a tragic accident BUT there are two elements that keep bothering me.
1- The email he received from day care during the day Cooper was left in the car.
And
2- His email to L asking about "picking up my little buddy".
We have all been absent minded- especially juggling little ones, jobs etc. I would like to say something like that would have never happened to me when my sons were young. I'm old enough to know Never Say Never.
Back on point, either the child care email or his text to L should have, even in the most absent minded of us, clicked something in the back of his mind that reminded him- OMG- Cooper!
I just don't know. I can't wrap my mind around parents intentionally murdering their child, absent a very real and rare mental illness (think Andrea Yates). I kind of get crimes of passion, greed, or while whacked out on something (not to minimize those at all!) but a parent's love knows no bounds. Even when they are grown like mine, I would give my life this second for one of theirs.
I am so glad I don't have to sit on that jury.
ETA- also agree he is a creep! But there are a lot of sex addicted creeps who don't premeditate murdering their almost 2 year old. Makes me shiver and a little ill to think of it.
 
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