The Head Injury-LSD and other physiological factors

[LinasK]

Just to add on to that... I am an ICU/critical care/open heart nurse (yes I wear all the hats because when we move with the military I have to take whatever is available).. that being said I completely agree with what you are saying about behavior changes and brain injury.. I had a patient once who would NOT quit masturbating after his head injury. He also said f#ck every other word and was very violent. His wife tried very hard to adjust but just couldn't find the "same man" where her husband had been. He had no speech or other problems... just a complete 360 in behavior.. In speaking with the neuro while caring for him over several months I learned that this can be common with head injury. ((an aside point... we are seeing a lot of similar cases in the military/after the war with TBI.. traumatic brain injury eta: similar not like Garrido... similar in that there are profound behavior and personality changes that have affected and continue to affect marriages and families))

I am not excusing Garrido or making excuses for his behavior. However, wouldn't it be important to know the cause of his behavior in order to try to prevent this from happening again? Was he born this way or did his brain injury set off a series of events and behaviors? Being a nurse I for sure want to know this.. moo of course...

Yes, I dealt with patients who would curse following their head injuries (automatic language such as curse words are processed in a different part of the brain than normal language) and exhibited very poor judgement/impulse control, however none of them harbored violent premeditated thoughts towards other people. I think the head injury and drug use may have excerbated Garrido's impulses, but I think his sick desires were there prior to his head injury.

 

[LinasK]

Would it have been reasonable to send rapists to you for speech therapy?
I am not trying to paint a picture, I am trying to find out the truth. My gf's father had a head injury and he changed into another person beat them senseless, when he had originally been a kind man.
The brain is a mysterious thing and it controls all behavior. Whether this applies to PG, I have no idea. but I don't think we can deny that brain tumors or brain injuries can result in violent and new behaviors.
LSD certainly doesn't create new healthy synapses either LOL.

There are actually speech therapists that do go into prisons to work with prisoners...
I worked almost exclusively with adults in health care and home-health settings.

 

[nursebeeme]

Yes, I dealt with patients who would curse following their head injuries (automatic language such as curse words are processed in a different part of the brain than normal language) and exhibited very poor judgement/impulse control, however none of them harbored violent premeditated thoughts towards other people. I think the head injury and drug use may have excerbated Garrido's impulses, but I think his sick desires were there prior to his head injury.

yes, the premeditation gives me complete pause as well.... I think in this case:

monster= genetic predisposition to mental illness + head injury + substance abuse generally + drug abuse specifically (LSD)

Moo

 

[MBK]

I swear, if his attorney uses this kind of **** at trial I'll be INCENSED.

"Oh, he had a head injury. He couldn't help himself."

"Ooooh, he was an addict. That's a disease. He couldn't help himself."

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

 

[nursebeeme]

I swear, if his attorney uses this kind of **** at trial I'll be INCENSED.

"Oh, he had a head injury. He couldn't help himself."

"Ooooh, he was an addict. That's a disease. He couldn't help himself."

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

brace yourself because I bet we will see it again.. all of it. What other defense strategy would an attorney use?

What insenses me is that the system is really the MONSTER in this case... because they let the REAL MONSTER out of his neat little box that he should have still been sitting in. The system failed in so many ways. It is for that reason that we shall again hear stories of his head injury and drug use (most likely) when he goes to trial.

 

[believe09]

Head injuries do impact impulse control. So do hormone surges during teen years. It is fair to look at head injuries and drug usage when considering what motivated this guy. BUT-He clearly knew right from wrong because he hid Jaycee. I doubt that previous injuries will free him, but they might save his life when it comes to some of the other crimes he is suspected of....

 

[kgeaux]

I don't know much about LSD, but there were shows on last week about Woodstock and such stuff. People said that LSD extremely heightened the sexual experience. This Garrido guy probably was trying to relive this experience and also liked bondage and rape. Simple as that. He's getting old and probably like LSD back in the 70's. Head injuries cause problems with learning or using a hand, etc. I can never believe that a head injury would cause such deviancy, yet be able to fool business associates who bought those printing business cards from this person.

I have a close family member who suffered a closed head injury just about 30 years ago. His entire personality changed afterwards. The "impulse control" portion of his brain was impacted by the injury, and if he thinks it, he says it---no matter HOW wrong, stupid or disgusting the thought is. He is a smart man and has retained his intelligence, but you'd never know it to talk to him. If he thinks your ears are crooked, your butt is big or your look especially good today, he'll tell you. Even if he is sitting in a pew while he says it! If he gets something in his head, he will NOT let it go.....

I swear, if his attorney uses this kind of **** at trial I'll be INCENSED.

"Oh, he had a head injury. He couldn't help himself."

"Ooooh, he was an addict. That's a disease. He couldn't help himself."

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

I can't see this being much of a defense, but it is interesting to note how many criminals suffered head injuries before their deviant behavior began. Perhaps if we (as a society) can learn of the impact these injuries can have, we'll start testing for "hidden" damage and offering early intervention.

I remember watching a program in which criminals and laypeople were hooked up to cat scans, etc. while being shown pictures of violent scenes. The criminals brain waves sped up in a completely different portion of the brain than in the laypeople. You'd never "see" this type of damage/difference on an x-ray or normal cat scan....but it was sure there!

 

[JBean]

There are actually speech therapists that do go into prisons to work with prisoners...
I worked almost exclusively with adults in health care and home-health settings.

I was asking about you specifically since you said you had never seen it.
So it would make sense that you had never encountered it because it doesn;t seem as though it was your area.

 

[JBean]

Just to add on to that... I am an ICU/critical care/open heart nurse (yes I wear all the hats because when we move with the military I have to take whatever is available).. that being said I completely agree with what you are saying about behavior changes and brain injury.. I had a patient once who would NOT quit masturbating after his head injury. He also said f#ck every other word and was very violent. His wife tried very hard to adjust but just couldn't find the "same man" where her husband had been. He had no speech or other problems... just a complete 360 in behavior.. In speaking with the neuro while caring for him over several months I learned that this can be common with head injury. ((an aside point... we are seeing a lot of similar cases in the military/after the war with TBI.. traumatic brain injury eta: similar not like Garrido... similar in that there are profound behavior and personality changes that have affected and continue to affect marriages and families))

I am not excusing Garrido or making excuses for his behavior. However, wouldn't it be important to know the cause of his behavior in order to try to prevent this from happening again? Was he born this way or did his brain injury set off a series of events and behaviors? Being a nurse I for sure want to know this.. moo of course...

INteresting.

To me, this isn;t about making excuses, but rather about finding the truth, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

 

[Muffet]

-snip- Perhaps if we (as a society) can learn of the impact these injuries can have, we'll start testing for "hidden" damage and offering early intervention.

I remember watching a program in which criminals and laypeople were hooked up to cat scans, etc. while being shown pictures of violent scenes. The criminals brain waves sped up in a completely different portion of the brain than in the laypeople. You'd never "see" this type of damage/difference on an x-ray or normal cat scan....but it was sure there!

ITA. I don't want to see this man get off lightly, if for no other reasons than precedent and protection of others. But I too know a man who turned into a completely different person after a head injury. Before the injury, he was a highly conscientious family man and great father. Afterwards, he became a highly impulsive and obsessive man, holding to conspiracy theories, delusions of grandeur, and sexual deviance.

He tried to convince his own 16 y/o daughter to be his lover (she loved him and understood, but the family wisely removed her from his home when she told). When he tried to seduce me (a young friend of the family), I cried out of pity for him, because I knew the real him would be mortified.

So I would never hold that against him, nor did I report him or even tell anyone who knew him. But that's because (other than flashing) he's never been forceful with these things, to my knowledge. If he ever were forceful, he would have to be put away, somewhere, if for no other reason than to protect those who could be victimized.

ETA: My reason for replying :crazy: I totally agree that we should use these cases to study and learn more about them, so we can find ways to fix them.

 

[Harmony 2]

FYI...

Ex-Friend Reveals Jaycee Lee Dugard Kidnapper's Heavy Cocaine Habit And Fall Into Madness

Loebs and Garrido played together in a band in the late 1970s and Garrido's drug use was out of control. Loebs describes how Garrido ingested huge amounts of cocaine, one time using a full-length mirror to put out three lines of cocaine that were at least three feet long and led to a pile of the drug.
At the same time Garrido's sexual appetite was out of control and he did nothing to curb it,….

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...nd-reveals-jaycee-lee-dugard-kidnappers-heavy


http://tbi.unl.edu/savedTBI/substance/homepage.html

Some individuals with head injury take the substance abuse further than alcohol. Researchers found cocaine abuse to have the following effects on the brain.
• alterations in neurotransmitter functioning
• subarachnoid hemorrhage
• cerebral infarction
• intraparenchymal hemorrhage
• cerebral vasculitis
• cerebral arterial spams
• cerebral perfusion defects (in frontal and temporal lobes)
Cocaine abusers suffer from brain damage and functional limitations of daily life.
• selective impairment of concentration
• memory impairment
• impairment of visuoconstructive abilities
• difficulty understanding abstract concepts
http://tbi.unl.edu/savedTBI/substance/effects.htm

 

[JBean]

I think we can agree this is one messed up dude.

 

[Pink Panther]

FYI...

Ex-Friend Reveals Jaycee Lee Dugard Kidnapper's Heavy Cocaine Habit And Fall Into Madness



http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...nd-reveals-jaycee-lee-dugard-kidnappers-heavy


http://tbi.unl.edu/savedTBI/substance/homepage.html

Some individuals with head injury take the substance abuse further than alcohol. Researchers found cocaine abuse to have the following effects on the brain.
• alterations in neurotransmitter functioning
• subarachnoid hemorrhage
• cerebral infarction
• intraparenchymal hemorrhage
• cerebral vasculitis
• cerebral arterial spams
• cerebral perfusion defects (in frontal and temporal lobes)
Cocaine abusers suffer from brain damage and functional limitations of daily life.
• selective impairment of concentration
• memory impairment
• impairment of visuoconstructive abilities
• difficulty understanding abstract concepts
http://tbi.unl.edu/savedTBI/substance/effects.htm

And so...it this was all true that these drugs created the monster that we know today, so - what now? Do we embrace this "poor creature"? What do we do? Do we forgive his disgusting acts and let him back out under"supervised" parole? Poor, poor man...HE didn't have an alternative...WTH?

 

[Pink Panther]

I think we can agree this is one messed up dude.

Yep.

 

[nursebeeme]

ITA. I don't want to see this man get off lightly, if for no other reasons than precedent and protection of others. But I too know a man who turned into a completely different person after a head injury. Before the injury, he was a highly conscientious family man and great father. Afterwards, he became a highly impulsive and obsessive man, holding to conspiracy theories, delusions of grandeur, and sexual deviance.

He tried to convince his own 16 y/o daughter to be his lover (she loved him and understood, but the family wisely removed her from his home when she told). When he tried to seduce me (a young friend of the family), I cried out of pity for him, because I knew the real him would be mortified.

So I would never hold that against him, nor did I report him or even tell anyone who knew him. But that's because (other than flashing) he's never been forceful with these things, to my knowledge. If he ever were forceful, he would have to be put away, somewhere, if for no other reason than to protect those who could be victimized.

ETA: My reason for replying :crazy: I totally agree that we should use these cases to study and learn more about them, so we can find ways to fix them.

thank you for sharing this! It is what many of us have attested to in various forms previously... Thanks for giving it some more eye lift! brow lift! face lift! It happens! Thanks for sharing it!

 

[nursebeeme]

And so...it this was all true that these drugs created the monster that we know today, so - what now? Do we embrace this "poor creature"? What do we do? Do we forgive his disgusting acts and let him back out under"supervised" parole? Poor, poor man...HE didn't have an alternative...WTH?

I for one (speaking for myself) am not saying AT ALL that drugs had to do one hundred per cent with his condition. Did they contribute? Well, yeah... in my opinion... When HAVEN'T drugs contributed to aberrant behavior.

As to the other risk factors he had.. well those are what interest me and what make me want to poke and prod his histories (both physical and psychological). He had an accident with a significant head injury, he had drug use, we do not know his genetic psychological history but I bet there lies within some bpd or some schizoid personality disorder.. somewhere in the family tree.

He did a significant amt of LSD..



This guy is a walking study in "what the hell happened"...

I hope we are able to disect this over time and learn from what happened... perhaps prevent anything untoward from happeneing again.. but then again that is just the way I think as a nurse.. I am ALL about PRIMARY PREVENTION... I seriouly do not want any of the building blocks that made this freak available to any other freaks in the "process of building"... If you take away a block it can keep a whole building from going up... that is my thinking... so whatever I can do to prevent it.. I will do my best to add my two professional cents... and sorry for the rant~ truly.........

eta: not aimed at you pinkpanther! just venting in general! (((()))))

 

[LillyRush]

My main concern is that his (and Nancy's lawyers) may use things like this, and that other nonsense about him speaking into boxes or whatever, to hold things up in court and have continuous hearings on whether the two of them are competent to stand trial. Ideally, of course, they would just plead guilty and skip the trial. It doesn't look like that's going to happen though with them recently pleading not guilty.

I bring up my concern about continuous hearings, proving competence, etc. because that's what happened - and if I'm not mistaken I think it's still happening - in the Elizabeth Smart case. Hopefully, that won't happen in this case and justice will be served. In Phillip's case, I think they would have a harder time proving incompetence because he has a past history of similar offenses and even served jail time for it.

 

[Charlie09]

My opinion is a lay person who has been around brain injured people for nearly 16 years now is, absolutely impulse control, filters of mouth, changes in personality - all occur. Huge rages occur too, people who have never sworn in front of people, suddenly become obsessed with using offensive language....not knowing for 18 years that the person you have hidden in the backyard for 18 years was not only illegal, immoral, and all the other adjectives we could add, is simply not a result of a brain injury.

Brain injuries tend to magnify the weaknesses (and strengths) of a person, they do not intrinsically change a person to the core, they change aspects of a person.

Our family is seriously as prone to horrific accidents resulting in brain injuries, as some families are prone to cancer, it goes back 4 or 5 generations as far as we can tell. In the early 1900's though, they were put in institutions and diagnosed as schizophrenic. I would love to have the tie the time to really research, but what I have seen informally - is everyone I personally have seen who has been labeled schizophrenic, actually did have a brain injury some years prior. (In my own family, I see this two and three generations back) I saw a special on 20/20 or 48 hours or something where they interviewed schizophrenic prisoners, and I saw the same look in the eyes, as I have seen over the years in brain injuries. By the way - I don't see that (not that it's not there, but I don't see that look in Garridos). I see a disturbed, cruel man who should absolutely be held accountable for his actions.

(my two cents anyway)

 

[kgeaux]

And so...it this was all true that these drugs created the monster that we know today, so - what now? Do we embrace this "poor creature"? What do we do? Do we forgive his disgusting acts and let him back out under"supervised" parole? Poor, poor man...HE didn't have an alternative...WTH?

I don't think so! No matter what created the monster, a monster surely was created and did monstrous things for which he should be prosecuted. The harm he caused to Jaycee and her daughters is real and will last their lifetimes, most likely. Even if she chooses to forgive him, he still needs to be held accountable.

To know what created the monster may enable us to learn how to prevent it from happening again. Or at least to watch the people who are turning themselves into monsters very, very closely.

 

[concentric]

BTW - I don't believe he would have been caught if he hadn't, for his own distorted reasons, decided that he wanted to be - CAUGHT.[/B] [/B]MOO

I wonder that as well. IMO - He literally got tired of playing his own game, just like Fritzl. He was getting old.