The Incinerator

[Snoofo]

Well you stopped at the comma, there is more to that sentence, specifically

3. (1) Entry on premises may be prohibited by notice to that effect and entry is prohibited without any notice on premises, (a) or (b).

And a and b are:

(a) that is a garden, field or other land that is under cultivation, including a lawn, orchard, vineyard and premises on which trees have been planted and have not attained an average height of more than two metres and woodlots on land used primarily for agricultural purposes; or

(b) that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the occupier’s intention to keep persons off the premises or to keep animals on the premises. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 3 (1).

So if DM were farming the land you can't go on it. If DM had No Trespassing signs, a fence or red markers up, you can't go on the land. Heck even if DM had a lawn you could not go on the land.

DM's not farming or renting to a farmer. There is no fence or marker poles or trees at the boundary between DM's farm and the neighbour's. Pretty well the neighbour is allowed to come on over.

Actually he did rent part of the farm to farmers although I can't find that link (it was re-posted for me recently when I enquired about renters). Maybe it is the renting farmers that took pictures.

 

[Eldee]

I would think a farm that is virtually uninhabited by the owner and all of a sudden there is machinery working away in a swamp would most certainly peak the interest of neighbours. Not necessarily because they think there is anything nefarious happening, but wondering how this is going to affect them. Well digging, water supply, septic bylaws adhered to would all be of interest to neighbours. We country people are always very watchful of what are neighbours are up to, in case it infringes on our lifestyle. Or, maybe that is just me. We value our water supply like you city people value parking spots.

 

[Blomquist]

Just, having grown up in the country, if land is undeveloped you can generally hike through it without any fear of prosecution. It's commonly understood that this is ok.

People live in the city all their lives without ever getting a jaywalking ticket and people roam the country all their lives without ever once being charged with trespassing. It's just not a big deal.

I think the neighbours were acting altruistically and checking things out for DM, to see if there was any problem. Instead they discovered
DM was the problem.

And to think I was looking forward to living in the country...... note to self... order gates, fencing and No Trespassing Signs..... preferably an electric fence. MOO ullhair:

 

[Blomquist]

I would think a farm that is virtually uninhabited by the owner and all of a sudden there is machinery working away in a swamp would most certainly peak the interest of neighbours. Not necessarily because they think there is anything nefarious happening, but wondering how this is going to affect them. Well digging, water supply, septic bylaws adhered to would all be of interest to neighbours. We country people are always very watchful of what are neighbours are up to, in case it infringes on our lifestyle. Or, maybe that is just me. We value our water supply like you city people value parking spots.

But does anyone value privacy ? that would be my question. JMO

 

[Snoofo]

But does anyone value privacy ? that would be my question. JMO

Not in the age of the Internet! Even younger farmers likely roam their adjoining lands searching for wi-fi. Think about it, people take pictures of just about anything or anyone they might see on the street that could go with a witty Facebook caption. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past unless you try very hard to protect it.

In terms of trespassing on vacant land, if it were mine, I'd say enjoy the walk, but thats just me. But I suppose people taking photos of activity on my land would make me think they need to mind their own business.

 

[SnooperDuper]

But does anyone value privacy ? that would be my question. JMO

Sure, of course, that's why a lot of people move out to the country.

However you are always going to have neighbours that hear you working in one area and they come out to talk to you, and check out what you are doing, maybe even offer help or advice...if you're not there at that moment they are still going to look around and see if they can answer the questions they would have asked you by themselves. And honestly if you surprised them and accused them of trespassing they would say, what do you mean, I came to see you, and I thought you were here. That's why trespassing would not stick: there is always a legitimate reason, to visit workers on a worksite. You don't go ringing the front doorbell in this case. You would hike out and see them.

 

[Blomquist]

Not in the age of the Internet! Even younger farmers likely roam their adjoining lands searching for wi-fi. Think about it, people take pictures of just about anything or anyone they might see on the street that could go with a witty Facebook caption. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past unless you try very hard to protect it.

In terms of trespassing on vacant land, if it were mine, I'd say enjoy the walk, but thats just me. But I suppose people taking photos of activity on my land would make me think they need to mind their own business.

I think I would at least like to be asked if someone could roam over my land. What if I was a naturist who enjoyed roaming my land naked ? Yes the photo thing is quite disgusting IMO.... One could almost forgive them for wanting to solve a murder....but when presented with photos from before the murder (and thats just the ones which have come to light) it becomes more like snooping or even stalking if they are watching the owner too..... It's good for them that we can't sleuth them in here.... JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Actually he did rent part of the farm to farmers although I can't find that link (it was re-posted for me recently when I enquired about renters). Maybe it is the renting farmers that took pictures.

Here's one.

By then, locals started to notice the farm Millard bought on Roseville Road was falling into disrepair. While he was renting the land surrounding it to a pig farmer down the road, the old grey barn was clearly neglected.

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/3251642-millard-s-strange-downward-spiral/

There was another one as well that said how much of it was rented out, but I can't seem to find that one.

 

[Blomquist]

Here's one.



http://www.therecord.com/news-story/3251642-millard-s-strange-downward-spiral/

There was another one as well that said how much of it was rented out, but I can't seem to find that one.

Thanks Alethea...

I believe he only bought the place in 2011 (July ?)... why on earth would they be expecting an instant overhaul of a barn ? I have known farmers who havent done anything to their barns for years.... many have a dozen or more cats living in them. So for neighbours to say a barn is being neglected when the owner is relatively new seems very odd to me.

Rented to a pig farmer down the road??? I wish there was more about this nugget of information. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm pretty sure they took the picture after DM was arrested. After he was arrested, it raised their suspicions, they took the picture and phoned LE. DM was arrested on May 10th. The neighbours said they saw the incinerator on Friday, which would also be the 10th (since the article is dated May 14th). On the 13th, the police started searching the farm and found the body. Maybe the police needed the picture to help get the search warrant. Once they found the body, they can get a warrant to search any of his property.

JMO

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/14/hamilton-bosma-search-kitchener-waterloo.html

 

[Pink Panther]

I think I would at least like to be asked if someone could roam over my land. What if I was a naturist who enjoyed roaming my land naked ? Yes the photo thing is quite disgusting IMO.... One could almost forgive them for wanting to solve a murder....but when presented with photos from before the murder (and thats just the ones which have come to light) it becomes more like snooping or even stalking if they are watching the owner too..... It's good for them that we can't sleuth them in here.... JMO

Sure. All those nasty neighbours running around "sleuthing" before crimes are committed...Uh huh.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thanks Alethea...

I believe he only bought the place in 2011 (July ?)... why on earth would they be expecting an instant overhaul of a barn ? I have known farmers who havent done anything to their barns for years.... many have a dozen or more cats living in them. So for neighbour to say a barn is being neglected when the owner is relatively new seems very odd to me.

Rented to a pig farmer down the road??? I wish there was more about this nugget of information. JMO

I also wonder if it was the pig farmer who took the March pictures. He may have been interested in whether the farm was going to start being fixed up and maybe built on. The March pictures could be someone totally different and for different reasons, than the two who were working near the farm and saw the incinerator. JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Sure. All those nasty neighbours running around "sleuthing" before crimes are committed...Uh huh.

Actually Bessie posted two links further up this thread that shows two pics that were taken by the 'neighbours' in March...which I believe WAS before the murder...... IMO

 

[Pink Panther]

Actually Bessie posted two links further up this thread that shows two pics that were taken by the 'neighbours' in March...which I believe WAS before the murder...... IMO

Yes. I am aware of that. So?

 

[Blomquist]

Yes. I am aware of that. So?

I guess its fine if people enjoy snoopers..... I personally don't unless there is a bonafide and just reason for looking. JMO MOO

 

[SwampMama]

We live out in the country and have family land about 100 acres or so. Part of it is a levee and although it is privately owned by the family, there are people who drive on top of the levee and walk there and such. There is nothing to steal and as long as they are not causing damage, it isn't worth the trouble to report it or try to press charges. There are some no trespassing signs but they are generally put there for legal purposes. We forgive others trespasses just as we expect forgiveness if we trespass (or drive) on their part of the levee. No harm done. Everyone knows everyone here though.

When it is pecan season here, there is a flurry of public notices in the newspaper warning people to NOT pick pecans or tresspass on such and such property because they will be prosecuted. We had some fool try to pick our pecans last year and I video'd him, got hubby to go confront him and to get our pecans back (they are worth a LOT of money, esp around here).

If someone strange moved into our area and started doing odd stuff, yes, we would be interested and would keep an eye on them to ensure nothing hinky was going on. I am sure DM piqued interest because he obviously wasn't there to farm and such.

We enjoy living in the country for the privacy and quiet. We value it and don't want a neighbor to be up to suspicious activities that may attract other hinky looking people. Most people around here mind their own business as long as you appear to be a normal person, but when someone stands out, then we will take note.

The neighbors could have been concerned that DM was up to something and so took pics just in case other things happened. Or if DM and crew had ruined equipment and left it to rot then a pic may have been taken to show others what a dummy he was. We tend to value our equipment, take care of it and know how to use it. When someone doesn't, it stands out, especially in a rural area where equipment is highly prized and a big part of life.

 

[Pink Panther]

I guess its fine if people enjoy snoopers..... I personally don't !

You're so quick to navigate this forum I can't keep up with you! How do you know they were "snooping"? People take all kinds of pics these days with those funny "smart" phones!

 

[swedie]

Actually Bessie posted two links further up this thread that shows two pics that were taken by the 'neighbours' in March...which I believe WAS before the murder...... IMO

Possibly DM had previously met his farmland neighbours. Did DM plan on selling the incinerator and spoke to neighbours about it and they took a picture for a potential buyer? A picture to e-mail to someone who lived a distance away? After all, it's not a common product which you can pick up just anywhere. Just a thought.

IMO I wouldn't necessarily say the neighbours were being nosy, but moreso typical of those who live in the country and watch out for their neighbours. I am thinking once that farmland was sold, neighbours became aware of this and anticipated the future use of the property, waiting and wondering what the purchaser was going to do with the land and monitored any activities going on there.

 

[Blomquist]

You're so quick to navigate this forum I can't keep up with you! How do you know they were "snooping"? People take all kinds of pics these days with those funny "smart" phones!

Yes but do they usually venture onto peoples private property to do it.... I wonder... It is MOO that they were snooping....

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm pretty sure they took the picture after DM was arrested. After he was arrested, it raised their suspicions, they took the picture and phoned LE. DM was arrested on May 10th. The neighbours said they saw the incinerator on Friday, which would also be the 10th (since the article is dated May 14th). On the 13th, the police started searching the farm and found the body. Maybe the police needed the picture to help get the search warrant. Once they found the body, they can get a warrant to search any of his property.

JMO

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/14/hamilton-bosma-search-kitchener-waterloo.html

Actually LE may have been on the farm on the 10th:

A man coming to check on a plane at a private airstrip across the road said he was told police had been at the farm property over the weekend, possibly as early as Friday.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3242933-tim-bosma-police-search-focused-in-waterloo-region/

LE could have discovered TB on that same Friday...but perhaps LE needed time to do some formal identification. De Caire announced TB's death at a 10 am press conference Tues May 14.