The Incinerator

[SnooperDuper]

Right - and if you are DM and you did this, why go through all that trouble of burning in order to remove dna but still dispose of remains on your own property?

We dont know for certain yet that remains were found on DM's property, but we do know LE warrants were for farm, hangar and Maple Gate. TB's remains were found just after these searches with enough time for confirmation of maybe dental records or something like that.

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INITALLY LE would not confirm where the remains were found other than to say Waterloo Region...but later they did confirm that TB's remains were in fact found on the farm.

e.g., http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/story/2013/05/28/cambridge-millard-bosma-toronto-homicide.html

Police have said remains previously found on the Millard farm are believed to be Bosma's.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I guess that would depend on your perspective. To me, knowing that nosy neighbours were wandering around on a crime scene prior to it being secured by police means that the neighbours could have disturbed, tainted, planted or obsconded with evidence. I would want to know if the neighbours somehow knew instinctively exactly where the incinerator was, or if they traipsed all over the crime scene looking for creepy souvenir photographs they could sell to the media?

It also means to me that they could be on the property so often that it seems to be a fairly public place that is frequently traversed by neighbours, making it a terrible place to leave evidence if you didn't want to get caught. Wouldn't it be a great way to eliminate suspicion from any damning DNA evidence you might have left at a crime scene, to be found wandering around on it, claiming it was just to take some photos because you live nearby?

I don't think the neighbours could see the activity that was going on, but they did have a dog, and all the unusual activity in the night that would have happened that Monday/Tuesday would have no doubt caused a lot of barking...making the neighbours want to see what all the fuss was about. IMO.

That still doesn't excuse them for what they did (potentially contaminating the crime scene)

 

[Juballee]

Maybe, maybe not. The point remains: the incinerator was present.

Personally, I think it is the sensationalistic nature of the incinerator that has people still talking about it, likely because it was probably the first time many people had ever heard of a portable incinerator. No one is arguing that it was not present, but whether or not it was used for the disposal of the body or just biasing media fodder remains to be seen, and is the true cause of speculation, in my opinion.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think people are still talking about it because LE seized it as evidence in a crime where an innocent man ended up murdered and his remains burned beyond recognition. The crime itself is sensationalistic.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I think it is the sensationalistic nature of the incinerator that has people still talking about it, likely because it was probably the first time many people had ever heard of a portable incinerator. No one is arguing that it was not present, but whether or not it was used for the disposal of the body or just biasing media fodder remains to be seen, and is the true cause of speculation, in my opinion.

Both the Globe and the Sun contacted the vendor of the incinerator and the Globe wrote:

The Ontario buyer said he wanted to dispose of dead farm animals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Now DM does not have any farm animals. So what, high moisture, dead animal-like substances was he trying to eliminate with the thing?

 

[Juballee]

Both the Globe and the Sun contacted the vendor of the incinerator and the Globe wrote:



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Now DM does not have any farm animals. So what, high moisture, dead animal-like substances was he trying to eliminate with the thing?

But it was later corrected that the incinerator was purchased by an employee, not DM himself. Therefore it was likely an employee asking the question, not DM. Are we to assume the employee was planning on burning a human body almost a year after he ordered it? And the answer to what said employee was trying to eliminate could have been that the MRO would have occasionally had to hygienically dispose of animal and fowl remains after repairing flight strike damage to aircraft.

 

[Sillybilly]

But it was later corrected that the incinerator was purchased by an employee, not DM himself. Therefore it was likely an employee asking the question, not DM. Are we to assume the employee was planning on burning a human body almost a year after he ordered it? And the answer to what said employee was trying to eliminate could have been that the MRO would have occasionally had to hygienically dispose of animal and fowl remains after repairing flight strike damage to aircraft.

Nothing was corrected to exclude DM ... it was simply stated differently in two separate MSM articles. In the Sun article a policeman said DM purchased the incinerator, and in the Globe article the company said an employee of Millard Air purchased it:

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[Snoofo]

INITALLY LE would not confirm where the remains were found other than to say Waterloo Region...but later they did confirm that TB's remains were in fact found on the farm.

e.g., http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/story/2013/05/28/cambridge-millard-bosma-toronto-homicide.html

:nevermind:
Thanks Billy, I'm coming down with a case of information overload. I forgot this fact of remains at farm used to make me wonder whether they ended up finding anything to do with TB's murder at the hangar. Or did they just find that Harley and the sum of less than ten car parts there?

So again let's recap: the crime took place in and around TB's Ram, either in close proximity to TB's house in Ancaster and/or in Brantford; and the body was burned and disposed of on DM's farm in Ayr - a place that is not so private (since nobody lives there and nobody cares), and just about anyone can walk onto. :waitasec:

 

[robynhood]

JMO...... This case MAY make little sense as I stated yesterday.....like who would place that Ram Truck on his mother's driveway?.....BUT

1. Who in their RIGHT mind would kill a man over a RAM Truck?>>>>>> or

2.Who would think they could STEAL a truck with the OWNER in the truck?

3. What kind of LOGICAL Man would Kill a man than place that man in his mother's driveway?as stated in#1

4. What kind of logical men would even attempt all of the ABOVE....?

I agree with you all THIS make little sense....BUT if the police have placed the accused in JAIL and they have given NO ATTEPT to Justify their actions....I feel you really have to WONDER....

I am Interested in ANYONE Trying to explain this....especilly those who STILL think DM and MS are INNOCENT....very hard to figure this out IMO without the crown's evidence and I feel they HAVE PLENTY OF EVUIDENCE...I do agree with all the posters that say this make no SENSE!...MOOO>>> maybe there is >>>> "no LOGICAL REASONING"...????....There often is no LOGICAL REASON when such a HEINOUS crime is commited.....IMO LOGICAL COHERT PPL would never ATTEMPT SUCH an evil act...Burn a human body in an Incinerator....JMI again...robynhood....

 

[ArianeEmory]

:nevermind:
Thanks Billy, I'm coming down with a case of information overload. I forgot this fact of remains at farm used to make me wonder whether they ended up finding anything to do with TB's murder at the hangar. Or did they just find that Harley and the sum of less than ten car parts there?

So again let's recap: the crime took place in and around TB's Ram, either in close proximity to TB's house in Ancaster and/or in Brantford; and the body was burned and disposed of on DM's farm in Ayr - a place that is not so private (since nobody lives there and nobody cares), and just about anyone can walk onto. :waitasec:

Since I assume there is an element of sarcasm in your recap: are you suggesting they burned the remains somewhere else and then transported them to the farm?

Any chance neighbors came to check out things due to suspicious activity, such as smoke or smell from an improperly-operated incinerator? I really don't think anyone's suggesting the farm is akin to a public park, other than via your hyperbole.

 

[Juballee]

Nothing was corrected to exclude DM ... it was simply stated differently in two separate MSM articles. In the Sun article a policeman said DM purchased the incinerator, and in the Globe article the company said an employee of Millard Air purchased it:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion and Theories

With such differences and contradictions between the two articles, for example one lists the price as half of what the other lists it as, how can we really take anything the MSM states as facts at face value to begin with? Weren't all these articles published after the publication ban, anyway? I also notice that the Sun article does not name the police officer who claimed DM bought it, so it is an unnamed source.

What I would go by in these two articles is that the one that says DM purchased it was days after his arrest, before there was time to thoroughly investigate it, but that the second article is published over a month later, when hopefully, there had been time to fully track the purchase and see who actually made it. So I would personally think that the more correct version is the one written later, when the initial hype had died down and there was time to actually check some of the facts. I also believe the later article had the more accurate price of the machine. I specifically remember it being reported (although far more quietly than than any damning information) when it was first revealed that DM did not make the actual purchase himself, it was newsworthy enough to report on the evening news from what I recall. So I think that we should be able to agree that it was purchased by an employee, not DM himself.

I wonder if we can also agree that while being the person to purchase an incinerator made DM look horribly guilty, does knowing he didn't buy it make him look less guilty? Or has the damage already been done? After all, everyone recalls the articles that stated he bought it, no one seems to remember the articles correcting that to say he didn't buy it.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Isn't Dellen Millard technically an employee of MillardAir?

Even if not, no, I don't think it makes a difference if he physically purchased the incinerator or had an assistant do it. No matter how many times it gets brought up. "JMO". But I also have never felt that the systematic stream of 'what ifs' trumps the mountain of evidence in the case.

 

[Snoofo]

Since I assume there is an element of sarcasm in your recap: are you suggesting they burned the remains somewhere else and then transported them to the farm?

Any chance neighbors came to check out things due to suspicious activity, such as smoke or smell from an improperly-operated incinerator? I really don't think anyone's suggesting the farm is akin to a public park, other than via your hyperbole.

I must be like the boy who cried wolf as I am often sarcastic but was not being sarcastic this time. I am delighted to say (and hopefully you will be happy to know), my recap was done in ernest and it would have likely come together in the end had I continued with thoughts that I felt, at that point, were better suited to the Innocent Dupe thread being (supposedly) the safer haven for such thoughts. I was hoping to deek out the slings and arrows that were sure to follow and ended up misunderstood. Woe is me.:dramaqueen:

Hope that helps!

 

[ArianeEmory]

Hamlet is certainly an interesting choice here.

rincess:

 

[Snoofo]

Isn't Dellen Millard technically an employee of MillardAir?

Even if not, no, I don't think it makes a difference if he physically purchased the incinerator or had an assistant do it. No matter how many times it gets brought up. "JMO". But I also have never felt that the systematic stream of 'what ifs' trumps the mountain of evidence in the case.

Yeah but it does make a difference if he didnt have an assistant do it, rather a trusted employee, with all the right accesses, ordering it for his own reasons. Hypothetically speaking, what if that employee also offered to keep an eye on the farm for DM because he knew that DM doesnt really ever go there since his plan to build a dream home with his fiance fell through.

This person could in a sense play by his own rules using DMs identity.

 

[Snoofo]

Hamlet is certainly an interesting choice here.

rincess:

Ok, now that made me laugh!

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[Juballee]

JMO...... This case MAY make little sense as I stated yesterday.....like who would place that Ram Truck on his mother's driveway?.....BUT

1. Who in their RIGHT mind would kill a man over a RAM Truck?>>>>>> or

2.Who would think they could STEAL a truck with the OWNER in the truck?

3. What kind of LOGICAL Man would Kill a man than place that man in his mother's driveway?as stated in#1

4. What kind of logical men would even attempt all of the ABOVE....?

I agree with you all THIS make little sense....BUT if the police have placed the accused in JAIL and they have given NO ATTEPT to Justify their actions....I feel you really have to WONDER....

I am Interested in ANYONE Trying to explain this....especilly those who STILL think DM and MS are INNOCENT....very hard to figure this out IMO without the crown's evidence and I feel they HAVE PLENTY OF EVUIDENCE...I do agree with all the posters that say this make no SENSE!...MOOO>>> maybe there is >>>> "no LOGICAL REASONING"...????....There often is no LOGICAL REASON when such a HEINOUS crime is commited.....IMO LOGICAL COHERT PPL would never ATTEMPT SUCH an evil act...Burn a human body in an Incinerator....JMI again...robynhood....

I agree, who in their right mind would kill a man over a truck, especially a used lemon, as SB called it, especially if you already have a hanger full of a fairly nice classic car collection, and especially when you can afford to buy 20 of them new. That does not make sense. Neither does it make sense that they would steal it with the owner there when they could have stolen it so many other, less damning ways that would have improved their chances of getting away with it.

Although I don't agree that the body was found in his mothers driveway. But most importantly, how can anyone even attempt to justify their actions if they did not make those actions to begin with? No justification would be available, or should even be necessary if you believe in the rights of Canadians.

To me what makes more sense is that TB was killed by someone who doesn't have a hanger full of better vehicles, someone who could not afford to buy 20 of them, someone who has a lot less to lose, someone who knew DM well enough to know he had tools such as an incinerator and empty properties at his disposal, and someone intelligent enough to cover their tracks by pointing everything in an obvious way at another innocent person. To me that makes far more sense than killing someone for something you already have plenty of, then doing the worst job ever of trying to eliminate the trail leading to you.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yeah but it does make a difference if he didnt have an assistant do it, rather a trusted employee, with all the right accesses, ordering it for his own reasons. Hypothetically speaking, what if that employee also offered to keep an eye on the farm for DM because he knew that DM doesnt really ever go there since his plan to build a dream home with his fiance fell through.

This person could in a sense play by his own rules using DMs identity.

What the basis for the statement that Dellen never went to his farm?

Does that mean you think he was completely unaware of the existence of the incinerator, the excavator, etc?

How did the trusted employee, once he purchased the incinerator a year in advance, meet up with Tim Bosma to kill him and take his body to the incinerator after the test drive? Or does this theory rest on DM having not been involved in the test drive? Maybe the assistant drew on an "Ambition" tattoo and accidentally added a box around it?

 

[Snoofo]

Isn't Dellen Millard technically an employee of MillardAir?

Even if not, no, I don't think it makes a difference if he physically purchased the incinerator or had an assistant do it. No matter how many times it gets brought up. "JMO". But I also have never felt that the systematic stream of 'what ifs' trumps the mountain of evidence in the case.

When an employee of Millard Air uses an email address that 100% reads like it belongs to DM, even while DM is in jail, then it is not a stretch to think one can carty on their business as DM and even make him pay for it!

 

[dizzy1]

Nothing was corrected to exclude DM ... it was simply stated differently in two separate MSM articles. In the Sun article a policeman said DM purchased the incinerator, and in the Globe article the company said an employee of Millard Air purchased it:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion and Theories

BBM

MOO, but it's possible they were referring to DM when they state it was purchased by an employee of Millard Air. MOO

ETA Didn't read far enough down, AE already suggested what I was thinking. I agree AE!