The Incinerator

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  • #741
I know "DM didn't know about the existence of the incinerator" is a favorite theme that won't stop coming up until trial, but I somehow doubt DM didn't notice the incinerator on his property for a year, and that no one saw or questioned a multi-thousand-dollar purchase of that nature. We know DM liked his man toys, including large equipment like excavators and wood-chippers. I do not believe in a theory that has someone playing such a long con that they bought an incinerator 11 months ahead of time because they somehow knew DM was going to be test driving trucks, and thus would come into contact with a member of the public who could be killed and DM framed for his murder. Or that neighbors noticed the incinerator but DM did not.

rbbm

Regarding the bolded, I don't believe in a theory like that either. But I also don't believe in a theory that DM would have purchased the incinerator himself with the intent of needing it for a murder 10 months into the future. I guess this would be the reasons for the conversations about different possibilities of why it may have been purchased.

Do we even know how often or how much time DM spent at his farm property? It sounds like the neighbors may have spent a lot more time there than DM did. After all, they lived there and worked on neighboring farms.

JMO
 
  • #742
rbbm

Regarding the bolded, I don't believe in a theory like that either. But I also don't believe in a theory that DM would have purchased the incinerator himself with the intent of needing it for a murder 10 months into the future. I guess this would be the reasons for the conversations about different possibilities of why it may have been purchased.

Do we even know how often or how much time DM spent at his farm property? It sounds like the neighbors may have spent a lot more time there than DM did. After all, they lived there and worked on neighboring farms.

JMO

July 2012: You could call it "10 months prior" or you could call it "a few weeks after Laura Babcock disappeared".
 
  • #743
Please see page 14 of this document as I believe it disputes your claims that there is no need to dispose of any 'road kill of the skies', and that mid air contact almost always severely damages aircraft. In fact, I believe at the end of the page they are discussing that even when dead wildlife is found on the runway, just pushing it aside is not a sensible solution as it attracts more wildlife. Now, granted, this is an American military publication, so much will not apply in Canada and public airports, but it is shown as scientific example of statistics on wildlife damage to planes, and issues connected to such. And much further down there is a small mention of recommending airports incinerate their waste to discourage wildlife, although, I am not saying that this is the kind of incinerator one would use for waste, just that the word leapt out at me when I skimmed a little further. I must admit I haven't had the time to read the entire article yet, it was just the first thing that appeared when I googled 'repair planes from wildlife damage', and it demonstrates my point, that planes can and do hit wildlife and may need to be repaired after, where there may be animal remains.

http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafec...tions/BASH_Mn_21_Dec_09_N32.doc#_Toc176936179

And again, please note that it is not me mentioning any law that might or might not apply, I am only mentioning that it is possible that a large MRO could have to repair aircraft that had been damaged by wildlife and that it is possible that there could be remains, even if it is only bloody rags and feathers, that might need to be cleaned from said aircraft and possibly disposed of hygienically, in my personal opinion.

I am not saying whether I believe that this is what it was used for or not, I am just acknowledging that it is a possibility, so, please, don't everyone jump on me at once. I do not think that it is reasonable to reasonably assume that the purchase was unreasonable just because we do not personally know the reason for the purchase.

Interesting that that manual states that approximately 90% of strike events are non-damaging.

A damaging strike event is any damage to an aircraft by impact with any species of wildlife. This type of event can range from a small dent, or a cracked taxi light lens to a Class A mishap. The Naval Safety Center bird strike database shows that approximately ten percent of all reported strike events involve some kind of damage.

A non-damaging strike event is one where a bird or animal is hit by an aircraft but results in no damage to the aircraft. Naval Safety Center data shows that approximately 90 percent of reported strike events are non-damaging.
 
  • #744
July 2012: You could call it "10 months prior" or you could call it "a few weeks after Laura Babcock disappeared".

You could, but at this point, LB is only missing. I can't fathom a reason why someone would let a body decompose on their land in the July heat while they waited for an incinerator to be ordered and delivered. It wouldn't be pleasant transferring the body to the incinerator once it did arrive. In fact, I would think the neighbours would have found, or at least smelled, the remains by then.

JMO
 
  • #745
I feel it's a slippery slope if I try to apply what "I" would do, personally, to a situation involving someone being murdered, since I'm not a murderer. Murderers typically do have to address the issue, though, of what to do with 1-200lbs of dead human being. I'm sure few of the available options are neat, sanitary or pleasant.

I know LB is kind of an inconvenient footnote for some people at this point, but DM hasn't been officially cleared in the investigation of her disappearance, as far as I know.
 
  • #746
You could, but at this point, LB is only missing. I can't fathom a reason why someone would let a body decompose on their land in the July heat while they waited for an incinerator to be ordered and delivered. It wouldn't be pleasant transferring the body to the incinerator once it did arrive. In fact, I would think the neighbours would have found, or at least smelled, the remains by then.

JMO
Alethea, IMO, to agree with your post I'd have to also make the assumption that if LB is more than missing, it all happened prior to the incinerator arriving. JMHO, but there's a possibility that if LB is more than missing, that perhaps she was staying with DM or one of his places and nothing happened until after the incinerator was in place. MOO
 
  • #747
JMHO, but there's a possibility that if LB is more than missing, that perhaps she was staying with DM or one of his places and nothing happened until after the incinerator was in place. MOO

If LE found any evidence (in the incinerator or elsewhere) that LB had been murdered, could they keep her immediate family from telling her extended family and friends – or make them wait to have a funeral – until after the TB trial? Can LE prioritize the rights of one victim over another like that?

In the Kassandra Bolduc case, her family put a notice on the FB page and had a funeral shortly after KB's remains were identified – months before a homicide investigation began. IMO if LB’s family had been told that their daughter was deceased, they would have at least taken down the “Help Us Find Laura” FB page and a funeral or memorial would have taken place.
 
  • #748
Alethea, IMO, to agree with your post I'd have to also make the assumption that if LB is more than missing, it all happened prior to the incinerator arriving. JMHO, but there's a possibility that if LB is more than missing, that perhaps she was staying with DM or one of his places and nothing happened until after the incinerator was in place. MOO

To follow your theory then, she would have had to have dropped off her beloved dog at her parents home and then had to have been hanging out in one of DM's properties for a couple of weeks without communicating with the outside world in any way while he waited for his incinerator shipment to arrive so that he could kill her. Did he have her in a pit where he would lower down lotion on a rope, too? ;)

To me Alethea's theories always make perfect sense, and she raises a very valid point here, especially if the neighbours seem to spend as much time there as some speculate.
 
  • #749
Alethea, IMO, to agree with your post I'd have to also make the assumption that if LB is more than missing, it all happened prior to the incinerator arriving. JMHO, but there's a possibility that if LB is more than missing, that perhaps she was staying with DM or one of his places and nothing happened until after the incinerator was in place. MOO

That was my point. If LB is more than missing and if that was the reason for buying the incinerator, DM would have had to wait for it to arrive before using it. I suppose, theoretically, he could have waited for the incinerator before he killed her. But then, I'd wonder why she stopped using her phone so soon. Or what he did with her while they waited for it to arrive. It must have been a tense time wondering if it was going to arrive in time to have everything completed before he left for his trip that summer.

JMO
 
  • #750
I feel it's a slippery slope if I try to apply what "I" would do, personally, to a situation involving someone being murdered, since I'm not a murderer. Murderers typically do have to address the issue, though, of what to do with 1-200lbs of dead human being. I'm sure few of the available options are neat, sanitary or pleasant.

I know LB is kind of an inconvenient footnote for some people at this point, but DM hasn't been officially cleared in the investigation of her disappearance, as far as I know.

As far as I know, DM hasn't officially been named as a suspect in her disappearance either.
 
  • #751
Interesting that that manual states that approximately 90% of strike events are non-damaging.
IMO this Naval Military paper may not clearly reflect the conditions at a Southern Ontario airport. Navy planes deal with much different conditions since you're talking about jets and helicopters that have to land on aircraft carriers. In Canada, we have Transport Canada's CADORS (Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence Reporting System) This is a searchable data base. In 2012 there were a total of 8 reports of bird strikes for incoming aircraft at Waterloo airport. There's a 9th report, but that bird strike actually happened in Ottawa-the flight originated in Waterloo. IMHO, it will be very difficult to persuade anyone from Planet Earth that the incinerator was used for carcass disposal at the Millardair hangar! MOO

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...chfldcd=6&txt=Waterloo+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3
 
  • #752
To follow your theory then, she would have had to have dropped off her beloved dog at her parents home and then had to have been hanging out in one of DM's properties for a couple of weeks without communicating with the outside world in any way while he waited for his incinerator shipment to arrive so that he could kill her. Did he have her in a pit where he would lower down lotion on a rope, too? ;)

To me Alethea's theories always make perfect sense, and she raises a very valid point here, especially if the neighbours seem to spend as much time there as some speculate.
Juballee, IMO, MSM did report that SL claimed that DM told him that he had been supplying LB with cocaine for months.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-probe-link-between-bosma-suspect-missing-woman-1.1286814

"Homicide detective Mike Carbone said LB, 23, and DM, 27, were “romantically linked, although I would not say they had a traditional dating relationship.”

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-probe-link-between-bosma-suspect-missing-woman-1.1286814

IMO, they may very well have been hanging out together. MOO
 
  • #753
IMO this Naval Military paper may not clearly reflect the conditions at a Southern Ontario airport. Navy planes deal with much different conditions since you're talking about jets and helicopters that have to land on aircraft carriers. In Canada, we have Transport Canada's CADORS (Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence Reporting System) This is a searchable data base. In 2012 there were a total of 8 reports of bird strikes for incoming aircraft at Waterloo airport. There's a 9th report, but that bird strike actually happened in Ottawa-the flight originated in Waterloo. IMHO, it will be very difficult to persuade anyone from Planet Earth that the incinerator was used for carcass disposal at the Millardair hangar! MOO

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...chfldcd=6&txt=Waterloo+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3


Thank you for the statistics on Waterloo airport bird strikes for incoming aircraft, I am glad to know that I am not imagining the phenomenon. I believe it was stated that Millardair was going to be repairing a variety of aircraft from around the world, not just the planes from that specific airport, and not just planes that had struck fowl.

If I recall, the navy link I posted also spoke of ground based runways and grasses and water features near airports, which I think also may apply to Waterloo, as I believe that there was mention on a fair sized body of water less than 1km from the hanger, which would attract geese and ducks naturally.

And I didn't say I was here to persuade anyone, just pointing out that it is a possibility.
 
  • #754
Thank you for the statistics on Waterloo airport bird strikes for incoming aircraft, I am glad to know that I am not imagining the phenomenon. I believe it was stated that Millardair was going to be repairing a variety of aircraft from around the world, not just the planes from that specific airport, and not just planes that had struck fowl.

If I recall, the navy link I posted also spoke of ground based runways and grasses and water features near airports, which I think also may apply to Waterloo, as I believe that there was mention on a fair sized body of water less than 1km from the hanger, which would attract geese and ducks naturally.

And I didn't say I was here to persuade anyone, just pointing out that it is a possibility.
Juballee, excuse the smilie :scared: but I need to clarify this highly accurate report and bird strikes to put this notion to rest once and for all. The Millardair hangar is at Kitchener Waterloo airport. Bird strikes occur at low altitudes-they don't fly at 10000 feet in the air. That's why they occur on take off and landing. That's when the plane is in the birds airspace. http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Bird_Strike
An examination of the plane and carcass removal if necessary would be done at the airport the incident happened at or if all systems were ok, at the Airport it was headed to. Say as an example, that a plane was coming into Waterloo for maintenance from Georgia on Sept 1st and hit a bird today flying into Miami. The whole bird strike thing would be dealt with in Miami. They would not fly it into Waterloo with a bird stuck in the engine! IMO, the incinerator for the 8 bird strikes at Waterloo renders this theory moot. Even if they took the 218 bird strikes from Toronto area airports in 2012 and gathered up the 25 from Hamilton, they'd be able to dispose of the whole bunch firing the SN250 up once. It's not my intention to belabor the point-but IMHO, it makes more sense to say that DM was moving Millardair into agriculture and was expecting to free range a thousand chickens on the farm and was just planning ahead. Then perhaps the incinerator on the farm would make sense. Regardless, it's obvious to me that DM was well prepared to dispose of 250 lbs of something. MOO
Toronto bird strikes
http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...rchfldcd=6&txt=Toronto+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3
Hamilton bird strikes
http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...chfldcd=6&txt=Hamilton+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3
 
  • #755
I guess I'm confused. Why are we talking about an incinerator needed for "air kill" / airplane maintenance when it was at the farm, not a hangar?

Possibly because we have no idea , how , when and by whom it got to the farm??? Maybe moved there as a prop ?? Who knows..... but until the trial , when maybe or maybe not it has any relevance...we will not be any the wiser... so IMO the constant debate about it is purely hypothetical.... JMO
 
  • #756
Juballee, excuse the smilie :scared: but I need to clarify this highly accurate report and bird strikes to put this notion to rest once and for all. The Millardair hangar is at Kitchener Waterloo airport. Bird strikes occur at low altitudes-they don't fly at 10000 feet in the air. That's why they occur on take off and landing. That's when the plane is in the birds airspace. http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Bird_Strike
An examination of the plane and carcass removal if necessary would be done at the airport the incident happened at or if all systems were ok, at the Airport it was headed to. Say as an example, that a plane was coming into Waterloo for maintenance from Georgia on Sept 1st and hit a bird today flying into Miami. The whole bird strike thing would be dealt with in Miami. They would not fly it into Waterloo with a bird stuck in the engine! IMO, the incinerator for the 8 bird strikes at Waterloo renders this theory moot. Even if they took the 218 bird strikes from Toronto area airports in 2012 and gathered up the 25 from Hamilton, they'd be able to dispose of the whole bunch firing the SN250 up once. It's not my intention to belabor the point-but IMHO, it makes more sense to say that DM was moving Millardair into agriculture and was expecting to free range a thousand chickens on the farm and was just planning ahead. Then perhaps the incinerator on the farm would make sense. Regardless, it's obvious to me that DM was well prepared to dispose of 250 lbs of something. MOO
Toronto bird strikes
http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...rchfldcd=6&txt=Toronto+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3
Hamilton bird strikes
http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...chfldcd=6&txt=Hamilton+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3


I dont think he (Juballee) was suggesting a plane fly across the USA with a goose or a moose attached to its body..... Simply that there is a possibility for wildlife to be a problem both on the ground, close to runway and possibly in the air whilst coming into land or taking off. I am not a pilot but I think it goes without saying that wildlife can be around at any time... Aside from that...there is the possibility that animal/fowl carcasses around the farm were to be disposed of and have been disposed of.... Just because the reason is as yet unknown, doesn't imo mean that anyones theory is a useless crock and that their theory needs to 'be put to rest once and for all' .... JMO
 
  • #757
For DM's unbelievable thoughtfulness for the disposal of animals anywhere and for the purchase of the incinerator towards that noble and just cause.......

I am all for recommending and submitting DM for the Order of Canada.
 
  • #758
Don't get me wrong, this subtopic has gone all the way over to hilarious, but again, can someone explain to me how many planes were arriving and departing from the farm?
 
  • #759
IMO this Naval Military paper may not clearly reflect the conditions at a Southern Ontario airport. Navy planes deal with much different conditions since you're talking about jets and helicopters that have to land on aircraft carriers. In Canada, we have Transport Canada's CADORS (Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence Reporting System) This is a searchable data base. In 2012 there were a total of 8 reports of bird strikes for incoming aircraft at Waterloo airport. There's a 9th report, but that bird strike actually happened in Ottawa-the flight originated in Waterloo. IMHO, it will be very difficult to persuade anyone from Planet Earth that the incinerator was used for carcass disposal at the Millardair hangar! MOO

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...chfldcd=6&txt=Waterloo+Bird+Strike&srchtype=3

Thanks, but I was only commenting on the percentages of damages in strike events, since I've seen it posted a few times that there is usually damage to the plane when these events happen. Since only 1 of the 9 Waterloo events reported some possible damage, I'd say that matches up quite well with the 1% quoted in the Navy Manual.

Personally, I think it more likely that the incinerator was purchased to get rid of scrap brush, since it was reported they had been excavating at the farm during the winter and taking into account open burning bylaws in many municipalities.

JMO
 
  • #760
Don't get me wrong, this subtopic has gone all the way over to hilarious, but again, can someone explain to me how many planes were arriving and departing from the farm?

Not sure why it matters if we don't know when the incinerator arrived at the farm, but there was a private airstrip right across the road.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3243140-kitchener-couple-owns-private-airstrip-across-the-street-from-bosma-in/

Maybe the helicoptor made a few trips there.

JMO
 
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