The Incinerator

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  • #981
Neighbours reported the barn falling apart since DM bought the property, so perhaps there were enough missing planks to give a casual observer the chance to see something in there. Perhaps DM would not be assured that someone at the hanger would not go in the trailer. I really doubt he told his buddies that he had this extremely hot truck on his hands. This is just not the sort of news you share. DM had to put the truck and the trailer somewhere, the barn was out, the hangar was out, and MB's driveway was the least out of place place to park that trailer...???

<RSBM>
Agreed, SD! If you look at the attached pics of the barn, it doesn't look like it's in very good shape to park a giant trailer with a concealed stolen truck inside. I can't be sure of the height of DM's trailer in regards to the height of the bottom level of the barn, but we have a similar barn on our property, and the ceiling is fairly low. Hubby can park a tractor in there, but the bucket has to be down. In my estimate it would be 7-8 feet high. There is a large pile of hay in front of 1 set DM's barn doors, which would have to be taken care of, and the door looks to be off the track. The angle of the other door doesn't look like you would be able to back a large trailer, attached to a large truck into it very well. There is a big dumpster to the right of the door as well as a partial stone wall on the other side. As for parking on the upper level, I would guess you would drive in behind the barn by the silo. IMO, the barn is in rough shape, and may not be able to support the weight of the truck and trailer being parked above. Since the upper entrance to the barn would most likely be elevated, the neighbor would have a pretty good view of something being backed into the barn from their standpoint. It would also be pretty hard to maneuver a truck/trailer combination (with a very heavy truck inside the trailer) on the grass in behind the barn in order to back the trailer in, risking getting the trailer stuck which would be a big mess IMO. :moo:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&sourc..._pIkvz3nb9dCX3sHbMYvybSg&ust=1378557831133365
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLXsPJTCYAEgNob.jpg:large
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&sourc...bAVKk1xT08Hpy9p8sns6smTw&ust=1378559662549824
 
  • #982
I think the picnic area is where the neighbours took a photo of the incinerator and the ground was scorched, and it was later moved (because there were references to where it was originally, etc.) LE set up two tents at the farm: one by the picnic area and one further back that seems to have been set up smack dab in the center of the lot vs. the property line. So somebody was doing something pretty deep into the lot...the center, innermost part of it.

If the neighbours photographed it in the picnic area, but then it was moved, then it must have been moved after Friday, when the picture was taken, so it was either moved by LE or an accomplice. I am not sure if LE would have moved it all the way to the middle of the property just to see what may have been under it. To me I don't think that explains the original position comment, I think the neighbours saw it on one of their likely somewhat regular strolls through the property, perhaps when they were there taking pictures of the digger stuck in the mud. Many posters have said that just owning the incinerator means it was obviously for nefarious purposes only, yet the neighbours didn't think it was out of place enough to report it as suspicious, if they had in fact seen it before, in it's 'original' position, in my opinion.



Neighbours reported the barn falling apart since DM bought the property, so perhaps there were enough missing planks to give a casual observer the chance to see something in there. Perhaps DM would not be assured that someone at the hanger would not go in the trailer. I really doubt he told his buddies that he had this extremely hot truck on his hands. This is just not the sort of news you share. DM had to put the truck and the trailer somewhere, the barn was out, the hangar was out, and MB's driveway was the least out of place place to park that trailer...???


I think that if they were expecting casual observers, that they wouldn't have hidden a body and an incinerator there. I do not agree with the suggestion that he might have thought he had more control over who might see it in his mothers driveway on a suburban residential street instead of the hanger or farm.

And again, I maintain, that it is an unnecessary risk to move the truck from someplace that you already think is a good enough hiding place for an incinerator and a body to somewhere where neighbours up and down the street would wonder why MB had a huge trailer in her driveway. Every mile that the truck was moved increased its chances of being discovered exponentially, who would take that chance when they could have just left in in the trailer anywhere on the farm and had less chance of discovery? Do we really think nosy country neighbours are bold enough to break the lock on a trailer and peek inside out of curiosity? I don't think that the truck was moved to keep it hidden, personally.

How about, if you dispose of evidence in multiple places there is a higher chance of one piece being found. However if you dispose of evidence together, you're more likely to have a case/charges against you if that one pile is found. One piece of evidence does not make a case, and if you make it as hard as possible to find all the pieces and put them together...

To me, the idea that if LE found the truck without the body or the body without the truck it would be fine, but the two together are not fine, makes no sense. In my opinion, LE are smart enough to search all the other places tied to a suspect if the find something horribly incriminating in one place tied to them, so spreading it out defeats the purpose. The evidence is apparently the same whether it is found in one place or many, but in my opinion, it makes someone look far more guilty to have it in two places tied to one person and none tied to the other suspect, then to have it all in one place, where they can say that someone just dumped it all there.

I think you would have to put the whole truck and trailer in the storage locker because you would want the truck under wraps in public. There definitely are security cameras at public storage. That may not have been cheap or convenient to arrange.

Although both a storage locker and MB's house are able to be seen by the public at random, I personally think that a storage locker is more private because firstly they usually have a good gate around the building that keeps all but those who have an access code out, people are often alone in the section they are in at any given time, and there are large ones you can drive a truck or trailer right into and then you have the privacy to keep whatever you want behind an anonymous closed door. I imagine that they are fairly easy to rent with a false name as well. To me that still seems more private than a street full of houses.

I think the idea that it might not have been cheap enough is humorous, and the idea that it may not have been easier than transporting it all the way to Kleinburg just doesn't make sense to me either, no offense.

MS (and #3, if applicable) always have a right to say DM, I don't want you or your truck problem at my home. And DM doesn't want it at his home either...or the hangar where there are too many people...or any place with cameras...I guess he came up with mom's?

Why do we assume it is DM's truck problem? He is the one with the least motive and no criminal history. Honestly, to me this still sounds like he is being made to be a patsy.
 
  • #983
If the neighbours photographed it in the picnic area, but then it was moved, then it must have been moved after Friday, when the picture was taken, so it was either moved by LE or an accomplice. I am not sure if LE would have moved it all the way to the middle of the property just to see what may have been under it. To me I don't think that explains the original position comment, I think the neighbours saw it on one of their likely somewhat regular strolls through the property, perhaps when they were there taking pictures of the digger stuck in the mud. Many posters have said that just owning the incinerator means it was obviously for nefarious purposes only, yet the neighbours didn't think it was out of place enough to report it as suspicious, if they had in fact seen it before, in it's 'original' position, in my opinion.






I think that if they were expecting casual observers, that they wouldn't have hidden a body and an incinerator there. I do not agree with the suggestion that he might have thought he had more control over who might see it in his mothers driveway on a suburban residential street instead of the hanger or farm.

And again, I maintain, that it is an unnecessary risk to move the truck from someplace that you already think is a good enough hiding place for an incinerator and a body to somewhere where neighbours up and down the street would wonder why MB had a huge trailer in her driveway. Every mile that the truck was moved increased its chances of being discovered exponentially, who would take that chance when they could have just left in in the trailer anywhere on the farm and had less chance of discovery? Do we really think nosy country neighbours are bold enough to break the lock on a trailer and peek inside out of curiosity? I don't think that the truck was moved to keep it hidden, personally.


To me, the idea that if LE found the truck without the body or the body without the truck it would be fine, but the two together are not fine, makes no sense. In my opinion, LE are smart enough to search all the other places tied to a suspect if the find something horribly incriminating in one place tied to them, so spreading it out defeats the purpose. The evidence is apparently the same whether it is found in one place or many, but in my opinion, it makes someone look far more guilty to have it in two places tied to one person and none tied to the other suspect, then to have it all in one place, where they can say that someone just dumped it all there.



Although both a storage locker and MB's house are able to be seen by the public at random, I personally think that a storage locker is more private because firstly they usually have a good gate around the building that keeps all but those who have an access code out, people are often alone in the section they are in at any given time, and there are large ones you can drive a truck or trailer right into and then you have the privacy to keep whatever you want behind an anonymous closed door. I imagine that they are fairly easy to rent with a false name as well. To me that still seems more private than a street full of houses.

I think the idea that it might not have been cheap enough is humorous, and the idea that it may not have been easier than transporting it all the way to Kleinburg just doesn't make sense to me either, no offense.

Why do we assume it is DM's truck problem? He is the one with the least motive and no criminal history. Honestly, to me this still sounds like he is being made to be a patsy.

I agree.... One would think the body was more important than the truck insofar as a murder charge...yet they allegedly left the body out in the open at the farm !!!! and conveniently left it next to an incinerator which may or may not have been used to muddy the waters a little.... (which imo is a good way to try to create some reasonable doubt imo) So any suggestion that had the truck been left there, it would have been possibly seen by 'trespassers' seems unlikely IMO. Why leave a BODY, yet move a truck. Absolutely insane if you ask me. So IMO I believe the strategic positioning of ALL conveniently found evidence, was a deliberate frame up job... JMO

Also why leave anything on your own property if you are guilty..... ??

Even the next corn field over would be better than you own property....holy smokes.... No...IMO this is a frame up.... no if's, and's or but's IMHO
 
  • #984
Many posters have said that just owning the incinerator means it was obviously for nefarious purposes only, yet the neighbours didn't think it was out of place enough to report it as suspicious, if they had in fact seen it before, in it's 'original' position, in my opinion.

...

And again, I maintain, that it is an unnecessary risk to move the truck from someplace that you already think is a good enough hiding place for an incinerator and a body to somewhere where neighbours up and down the street would wonder why MB had a huge trailer in her driveway ...
<rsbm>

In the case of both the incinerator and the trailer, it seems that neighbours found the items curious, but they were polite enough not to report it to LE as "suspicious". It also seems that, as soon as they became aware that DM had been arrested, they stepped up to the plate by coming forward with what they considered possibly relevant information that could prove helpful to the investigation.

IMO, these people are to be commended for becoming involved, instead of being slagged as nosy parkers.
 
  • #985
If the neighbours photographed it in the picnic area, but then it was moved, then it must have been moved after Friday, when the picture was taken, so it was either moved by LE or an accomplice. I am not sure if LE would have moved it all the way to the middle of the property just to see what may have been under it. To me I don't think that explains the original position comment, I think the neighbours saw it on one of their likely somewhat regular strolls through the property, perhaps when they were there taking pictures of the digger stuck in the mud. Many posters have said that just owning the incinerator means it was obviously for nefarious purposes only, yet the neighbours didn't think it was out of place enough to report it as suspicious, if they had in fact seen it before, in it's 'original' position, in my opinion.

Interesting point! The incinerator moving part came from the CBC (who started the extra remains rumour so...)

Trevor Dunn&#8207;@trevorjdunn7h
Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched

Trevor Dunn&#8207;@trevorjdunn7h
Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn

"Police did not announce an arrest until Saturday afternoon. By then, Mr. Millard had been in custody since Friday afternoon."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/13/dellen-millard-charged-in-case-of-missing-ontario-father-tim-bosma/

So who was moving the incinerator around between Friday when the neighbours saw it and when LE got there, while DM was being interrogated? How did they move it? Where exactly was it moved to? Why bother?

I think that if they were expecting casual observers, that they wouldn't have hidden a body and an incinerator there. I do not agree with the suggestion that he might have thought he had more control over who might see it in his mothers driveway on a suburban residential street instead of the hanger or farm.

I really don't think there was a body. TB's remains were returned to SB in a small, shoebox sized box. Hiding cremains and an incinerator is something different from hiding a body and an incinerator. In the first place, the body is already significantly disguised. "Burned beyond recognition" as a body, is the way I take it.

And again, I maintain, that it is an unnecessary risk to move the truck from someplace that you already think is a good enough hiding place for an incinerator and a body to somewhere where neighbours up and down the street would wonder why MB had a huge trailer in her driveway. Every mile that the truck was moved increased its chances of being discovered exponentially, who would take that chance when they could have just left in in the trailer anywhere on the farm and had less chance of discovery? Do we really think nosy country neighbours are bold enough to break the lock on a trailer and peek inside out of curiosity? I don't think that the truck was moved to keep it hidden, personally.

If the trailer with the truck in it was parked at the farm, there is plenty of privacy and nothing stopping someone from seeing that trailer, hooking up to it, and taking off with it. I think DM already used that technique with the Harley and understands how risky it is to leave an unattended trailer in a remote location.

To me, the idea that if LE found the truck without the body or the body without the truck it would be fine, but the two together are not fine, makes no sense. In my opinion, LE are smart enough to search all the other places tied to a suspect if the find something horribly incriminating in one place tied to them, so spreading it out defeats the purpose. The evidence is apparently the same whether it is found in one place or many, but in my opinion, it makes someone look far more guilty to have it in two places tied to one person and none tied to the other suspect, then to have it all in one place, where they can say that someone just dumped it all there.

Yeah I don't think we can generalize here, it can go all ways

Although both a storage locker and MB's house are able to be seen by the public at random, I personally think that a storage locker is more private because firstly they usually have a good gate around the building that keeps all but those who have an access code out, people are often alone in the section they are in at any given time, and there are large ones you can drive a truck or trailer right into and then you have the privacy to keep whatever you want behind an anonymous closed door. I imagine that they are fairly easy to rent with a false name as well. To me that still seems more private than a street full of houses.

I think the idea that it might not have been cheap enough is humorous, and the idea that it may not have been easier than transporting it all the way to Kleinburg just doesn't make sense to me either, no offense.

DM likes to drive. Look at the distance between his home and the hangar and MS's house and the condo. He's on the road zipping around everywhere. I don't think the trip to Kleinburg would be a biggie to him.

Why do we assume it is DM's truck problem? He is the one with the least motive and no criminal history. Honestly, to me this still sounds like he is being made to be a patsy.

A man and his truck disappear, and then the man is found at DM's farm and the truck is found at DM's mother's home. DM was one of two people last seen with the man and his truck. It's DM's truck problem. He's the one on the hook.

No documented criminal history, it seems he may have stolen a Harley for its parts. This could be.
 
  • #986
I agree.... One would think the body was more important than the truck insofar as a murder charge...yet they allegedly left the body out in the open at the farm !!!! and conveniently left it next to an incinerator which may or may not have been used to muddy the waters a little.... (which imo is a good way to try to create some reasonable doubt imo) So any suggestion that had the truck been left there, it would have been possibly seen by 'trespassers' seems unlikely IMO. Why leave a BODY, yet move a truck. Absolutely insane if you ask me. So IMO I believe the strategic positioning of ALL conveniently found evidence, was a deliberate frame up job... JMO

Also why leave anything on your own property if you are guilty..... ??

Even the next corn field over would be better than you own property....holy smokes.... No...IMO this is a frame up.... no if's, and's or but's IMHO

I think we have to be open to all possibilities and there is a strong chance TB's body was no longer in recognizable form, specifically, reduced to a quantity that would fit in a small, shoebox sized box. This is somewhat more remains than expected perhaps because I think you only get a couple pounds of cremains if someone is truly fully cremated. If the body was in this state you pretty well could consider it hidden.
 
  • #987
<rsbm>

In the case of both the incinerator and the trailer, it seems that neighbours found the items curious, but they were polite enough not to report it to LE as "suspicious". It also seems that, as soon as they became aware that DM had been arrested, they stepped up to the plate by coming forward with what they considered possibly relevant information that could prove helpful to the investigation.

IMO, these people are to be commended for becoming involved, instead of being slagged as nosy parkers.

I think you are missing my point. If the incinerator is instantly recognizable as obviously having only a nefarious purpose, why wasn't it nefarious to the neighbours before DM was arrested?

And the point that the neighbours are naturally nosy is not a slight against the neighbours, it just goes against the theory that anyone who knew the farm well would think it was a private enough place to incinerate a body and leave evidence lying around. And the other point is that if the neighbours were going to stumble across an incinerator and a body, stumbling across a trailer as well wouldn't have made a difference in the long run, so why bother moving the truck, where is would definitely been seen by even more politely curious/naturally nosy neighbours?

To me neighbours are just known to be naturally nosy, that's why 'Nosy neighbour' is a popular saying. It is in our nature to protect our homestead by keeping an eye out on our neighbourhood. And come to think of it, you know who else is generally known to have a nosy nature? Mothers. Personally, if I ever commit a crime, the last person I would want asking a bunch of questions about the evidence I'm trying to hide is my mother. ;)
 
  • #988
Interesting point! The incinerator moving part came from the CBC (who started the extra remains rumour so...)

Trevor Dunn&#8207;@trevorjdunn7h
Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched

Trevor Dunn&#8207;@trevorjdunn7h
Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn

"Police did not announce an arrest until Saturday afternoon. By then, Mr. Millard had been in custody since Friday afternoon."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/13/dellen-millard-charged-in-case-of-missing-ontario-father-tim-bosma/

So who was moving the incinerator around between Friday when the neighbours saw it and when LE got there, while DM was being interrogated? How did they move it? Where exactly was it moved to? Why bother?
<rsbm>

I don't interpret the above the same way at all. IMO, sometime prior to Friday, the neighbour saw the incinerator in one location (Location 1). It was subsequently moved (Location 2), and on Friday when LE arrived, he saw scorch marks where it had originally sat (Location 1).

Although DM's arrest was not made public until Saturday, we also heard that LE was at the farm on the weekend, possibly as early as Friday:

A man coming to check on a plane at a private airstrip across the road said he was told police had been at the farm property over the weekend, possibly as early as Friday.

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...et_up_at_millard_farm_in_waterloo_region.html

It's very possible/likely that LE were asking neighbours about the incinerator.
 
  • #989
I think you are missing my point. If the incinerator is instantly recognizable as obviously having only a nefarious purpose, why wasn't it nefarious to the neighbours before DM was arrested?

They said they did not know what it was and so took a picture so they could look it up on the net. My partner laughed and said they probably saw it was new, so they were checking it out to see if they could rip it off and sell it since DM was never around...cynical...but either way they did not know what they were looking at at first
 
  • #990
Wasn't DM's mother actually out of town at the time DM's trailer was stashed there?

So maternal nosiness is moot.
 
  • #991
I think you are missing my point. If the incinerator is instantly recognizable as obviously having only a nefarious purpose, why wasn't it nefarious to the neighbours before DM was arrested?

And the point that the neighbours are naturally nosy is not a slight against the neighbours, it just goes against the theory that anyone who knew the farm well would think it was a private enough place to incinerate a body and leave evidence lying around. And the other point is that if the neighbours were going to stumble across an incinerator and a body, stumbling across a trailer as well wouldn't have made a difference in the long run, so why bother moving the truck, where is would definitely been seen by even more politely curious/naturally nosy neighbours?

To me neighbours are just known to be naturally nosy, that's why 'Nosy neighbour' is a popular saying. It is in our nature to protect our homestead by keeping an eye out on our neighbourhood. And come to think of it, you know who else is generally known to have a nosy nature? Mothers. Personally, if I ever commit a crime, the last person I would want asking a bunch of questions about the evidence I'm trying to hide is my mother. ;)

I don't recall that anyone has stated the incinerator is "instantly recognizable as obviously having only a nefarious purpose". I believe the incinerator gets interpreted as possibly purchased for nefarious reasons once it can't be determined to have been purchased for non-nefarious reasons. So, while neighbours may have found it interesting or intriguing, they probably would never have suspected that it was to have a nefarious purpose (if it did). They may have wondered what it was there for (as we have). At that time however, the neighbours did not have the benefit of hindsight that we now have in relation to this case.

WRT mother ... IIRC there was some question as to whether MB was even home over the couple of days in question.
 
  • #992
If the neighbours photographed it in the picnic area, but then it was moved, then it must have been moved after Friday, when the picture was taken, so it was either moved by LE or an accomplice. I am not sure if LE would have moved it all the way to the middle of the property just to see what may have been under it. To me I don't think that explains the original position comment, I think the neighbours saw it on one of their likely somewhat regular strolls through the property, perhaps when they were there taking pictures of the digger stuck in the mud. Many posters have said that just owning the incinerator means it was obviously for nefarious purposes only, yet the neighbours didn't think it was out of place enough to report it as suspicious, if they had in fact seen it before, in it's 'original' position, in my opinion.

JMO, but I believe the neighbors had spotted the incinerator at an earlier time, before the crime had been committed. They happened to be on his property (possibly to prepare the field for planting) on Friday, and noticed the incinerator had been moved, and there was a burn mark where it had originally been.


I think that if they were expecting casual observers, that they wouldn't have hidden a body and an incinerator there. I do not agree with the suggestion that he might have thought he had more control over who might see it in his mothers driveway on a suburban residential street instead of the hanger or farm.
They may have simply ran out of time, and had no choice but to leave TB's burned body out in the open. Nobody could see the truck concealed inside the trailer in his Mom's driveway. If DM hadn't have been arrested, it could very well have still been parked there today. JMO

And again, I maintain, that it is an unnecessary risk to move the truck from someplace that you already think is a good enough hiding place for an incinerator and a body to somewhere where neighbours up and down the street would wonder why MB had a huge trailer in her driveway. Every mile that the truck was moved increased its chances of being discovered exponentially, who would take that chance when they could have just left in in the trailer anywhere on the farm and had less chance of discovery? Do we really think nosy country neighbours are bold enough to break the lock on a trailer and peek inside out of curiosity? I don't think that the truck was moved to keep it hidden, personally.

Again, neighbors wouldn't have wondered what the big trailer was doing in MB's driveway, if DM hadn't gotten himself arrested. I guess if he drove carefully, so as not to attract the attention of LE while moving the trailer, then LE would be none the wiser about what a gold mine of evidence was contained in that trailer going down the road. If DM hadn't been arrested, the neighbors wouldn't have called the police regarding the trailer. MOO

To me, the idea that if LE found the truck without the body or the body without the truck it would be fine, but the two together are not fine, makes no sense. In my opinion, LE are smart enough to search all the other places tied to a suspect if the find something horribly incriminating in one place tied to them, so spreading it out defeats the purpose. The evidence is apparently the same whether it is found in one place or many, but in my opinion, it makes someone look far more guilty to have it in two places tied to one person and none tied to the other suspect, then to have it all in one place, where they can say that someone just dumped it all there.

JMO, most likely LE would have checked MB's house at some point. But maybe not, I'm not really sure that LE automatically searches the criminals Mom's house every time they make an arrest. IMO, it's a good thing the neighbors were keeping an eye on the neighborhood, and decided to inform LE of the situation. JMO


Although both a storage locker and MB's house are able to be seen by the public at random, I personally think that a storage locker is more private because firstly they usually have a good gate around the building that keeps all but those who have an access code out, people are often alone in the section they are in at any given time, and there are large ones you can drive a truck or trailer right into and then you have the privacy to keep whatever you want behind an anonymous closed door. I imagine that they are fairly easy to rent with a false name as well. To me that still seems more private than a street full of houses.

JMO, but most storage facilities have surveillance cameras. IMO, too bad they didn't rent a storage locker, LE would most likely have gotten great video evidence of DM driving the truck towing the trailer straight into the storage facility. I'm sure at some point they would have found out about the storage facility once DM was arrested. Oh, the things he may have gotten away with, if it weren't for that darn tattoo. JMO

I think the idea that it might not have been cheap enough is humorous, and the idea that it may not have been easier than transporting it all the way to Kleinburg just doesn't make sense to me either, no offense.

JMO, but I'm not sure anyone suggested the locker was too expensive for DM, just that it was possibly not convenient enough at the time, as in they had a lot of big decisions/covering up to do in 3 days (aside from finalizing a condo purchase). MOO



Why do we assume it is DM's truck problem? He is the one with the least motive and no criminal history. Honestly, to me this still sounds like he is being made to be a patsy.

JMO, but poor DM. I guess he was the one with the properties, so he was the one who had to store the evidence. JMO, but since MS still lived with his Mom, I guess she may have asked questions when a body and a trailer holding a stolen truck turned up in her backyard/driveway. JMO
 
  • #993
I agree.... One would think the body was more important than the truck insofar as a murder charge...yet they allegedly left the body out in the open at the farm !!!! and conveniently left it next to an incinerator which may or may not have been used to muddy the waters a little.... (which imo is a good way to try to create some reasonable doubt imo) So any suggestion that had the truck been left there, it would have been possibly seen by 'trespassers' seems unlikely IMO. Why leave a BODY, yet move a truck. Absolutely insane if you ask me. So IMO I believe the strategic positioning of ALL conveniently found evidence, was a deliberate frame up job... JMO

Also why leave anything on your own property if you are guilty..... ??

Even the next corn field over would be better than you own property....holy smokes.... No...IMO this is a frame up.... no if's, and's or but's IMHO

BBM Could you provide a link which states they left TB's body in the open as I have yet to find any information it was left in the open. I allege it was left in the incinerator where DM and MS believed it was hidden. But burning TB's body beyond recognition wasn't suppose to be the end result, as I believe the perps were wanting to reduce it to nothing but ashes but failed big time and I am sure we will find out why when it goes trial (ran out of propane, didn't remain at the scene to make sure the job was complete, incinerator malfunction). And to leave TB's truck on the farmland, whether contained within the trailer or not, would be very obvious evidence LE were searching for (TB and his truck) both found on his farmland. IF this was a frame job, why not just leave the truck also (which I have stated before) on DM's farmland instead of taking a chance getting caught transporting it to his mother's house? Pretty obvious this was not a framing IMHO. And why did they frame DM only? Especially when MS has a proven criminal past... If this was a framing, there were obviously easier ways to frame him then all the trouble they went through to make it look like a frame job. DM left everything on his own property because the farmland was familiar to him and private (so he thought).

In a neighbour's cornfield?! :O That would leave them in the open, easier for others to notice, getting them caught in the act. The incinerator was the item of choice IMHO for destroying evidence and it was conveniently on DM's property. Why bother taking it to the hangar and risk other employees snooping in it? Again something a framer would have done, moved it to the hangar. IMHO the framers would have put the trailer with TB's truck inside right back in the hangar (if that is where they took it from), left it exactly where it was parked and DM wouldn't have been none the wiser, as I highly doubt he opened up the trailer on a regular basis just to take a lookie see inside kwim. Now that would be more obvious of a framers train of thought and planning then parking it at his mother's house making her seem possibly involved IMHO. HTH.
 
  • #994
I think we have to be open to all possibilities and there is a strong chance TB's body was no longer in recognizable form, specifically, reduced to a quantity that would fit in a small, shoebox sized box. This is somewhat more remains than expected perhaps because I think you only get a couple pounds of cremains if someone is truly fully cremated. If the body was in this state you pretty well could consider it hidden.

SD it's been determined there was a body. TB was not just ashes. As to how much body remained we have no idea. I have posted in the past that there was a body so HTH to clarify. SB was handed just a box because

I would assume SB had Tim's body what was left cremated. IMHO why would she want to accept TB's remains in the horrid state the murderers had left him in, something to ponder. I also believe this is why Tim's remains were not present for his funeral. They needed to do the autopsy and then plan for cremation. An examination by a coroner and Centre of Forensic Sciences did examine the remains, searching for cause of death. IMHO there must have been something other then ashes for them to do an autopsy or and examination on. This is just one article which states body. HTH and MOO.

But the latest details brought to light refocus the attention back on Bosma's death. The Globe and Mail details the history of a livestock incinerator found on the plot of Millard's property where Bosma's badly-burned body was later discovered by police.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...-millard-livestock-incinerator-135236909.html

A number of searches have taken place and human remains were located.
We are convinced by the totality of the evidence that these are the remains of Tim Bosma. The evidence indicates that the remains were burned.

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/complete-statement-re-death-of-tim-bosma/

A cause of death is not yet known and the coroner and Centre of Forensic Sciences are assisting in examining the remains.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...olice-anxious-as-hunt-for-suspects-continues/
 
  • #995
Telling... his remains were found in the wooded area (private, secluded). Where the incinerator was when investigators conducted their search. Coincidentally DM was tailed for four hours prior to his arrest. The neighbour saw the incinerator in the field where scorch mark were present Friday or prior to Friday and lo and behold it was move back into the bush where TB's remains were found, more than likely in the incinerator. Wow very telling and I think we have now solved a few parts of the puzzle. DM went out to the farmland and moved the incinerator into the wooded area to hide it from prying eyes, and while doing so, detectives were witnessing it (tailing him). Maybe they were camped out watching from the neighbours, or by chance just happened to be at the concerned neighbours talking about it at the time DM was moving it and witnessed him doing so. :doh::giggle: Caught red handed! DM with his supposed intelligence, I highly doubt he would have just left TB's body out in the "open" as some have suggested/assumed. Again, the incinerator was taken as evidence so it is tied to TB's death. After DM left the farmland with detectives tailing him, wonder where he went next leading to more evidence?! Wonder if they had put a GPS on his Yukon or a hidden camera within it? :giggle: I have a great feeling LE were onto DM right from the get go and just watching him in action, leading them to more evidence. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant I must say. Way to go LE. :great: Of course if my speculating is correct... MOO.

Since the discovery of the charred body of Ancaster family man Tim Bosma on last Tuesday, Hamilton investigators have been camped out at two Waterloo-area properties: the wooded area where Bosma’s remains were found burned beyond recognition, and farmland owned by Millard on which a portable incinerator was found.

Also to clarify where the Yukon was parked the night the perps showed up at the Bosma's home. Same article: HTH.

A second vehicle was waiting on the road at the end of Mr. Bosma’s driveway on Monday, May 6, and it followed as the men drove off with their victim, police said video evidence shows.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...olice-anxious-as-hunt-for-suspects-continues/
 
  • #996
But burning TB's body beyond recognition wasn't suppose to be the end result, as I believe the perps were wanting to reduce it to nothing but ashes but failed big time and I am sure we will find out why when it goes trial (ran out of propane, didn't remain at the scene to make sure the job was complete, incinerator malfunction). And to leave TB's truck on the farmland, whether contained within the trailer or not, would be very obvious evidence LE were searching for (TB and his truck) both found on his farmland. IF this was a frame job, why not just leave the truck also (which I have stated before) on DM's farmland instead of taking a chance getting caught transporting it to his mother's house? Pretty obvious this was not a framing IMHO. And why did they frame DM only? Especially when MS has a proven criminal past... If this was a framing, there were obviously easier ways to frame him then all the trouble they went through to make it look like a frame job. DM left everything on his own property because the farmland was familiar to him and private (so he thought).
Swedie, I tend to think along those same lines. Dark night, a dead body, an incinerator out in a big empty field-bad time to run out of propane if that was the case-but maybe they just didn't turn the dials on the machine correctly? Perhaps they ran into a cliche or two, got spooked and decided they should high tail out? IMO, they were either working by the light off the flames of a fire if they were burning some evidence, or the headlights off a vehicle...I don't think the Eliminator has night lights, so I would imagine that time was of the essence as not to draw too much attention to their actions! Also, it would have been fairly late at night, and out in the country sound travels like crazy, so perhaps that was a concern for them too. MOO
 
  • #997
Also to clarify where the Yukon was parked the night the perps showed up at the Bosma's home. Same article: HTH.

A second vehicle was waiting on the road at the end of Mr. Bosma’s driveway on Monday, May 6, and it followed as the men drove off with their victim, police said video evidence shows.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...olice-anxious-as-hunt-for-suspects-continues/
IMO, it sure sounds like LE has more CCTV footage than the traffic cameras since those cameras would never pick up the car at the end of the driveway-the distance is just too great. It also sounds like it was a continual motion, meaning DM and MS left with TB and the second vehicle seamlessly moved into place. MOO
 
  • #998
SD it's been determined there was a body. TB was not just ashes. As to how much body remained we have no idea. I have posted in the past that there was a body so HTH to clarify.

'body' is one of those weasel words. A complete, intact dead human is a body, but if you cut off the head, arms and legs you are left with: a body. If you burnt it there would be even less but the ashes would still represent a 'body' in this case meaning 'remains', 'body' is a synecdoche for 'remains' (no matter how little remains)

All the words LE have used have been terribly imprecise.
 
  • #999
BBM Could you provide a link which states they left TB's body in the open as I have yet to find any information it was left in the open. I allege it was left in the incinerator where DM and MS believed it was hidden. But burning TB's body beyond recognition wasn't suppose to be the end result, as I believe the perps were wanting to reduce it to nothing but ashes but failed big time and I am sure we will find out why when it goes trial (ran out of propane, didn't remain at the scene to make sure the job was complete, incinerator malfunction). And to leave TB's truck on the farmland, whether contained within the trailer or not, would be very obvious evidence LE were searching for (TB and his truck) both found on his farmland. IF this was a frame job, why not just leave the truck also (which I have stated before) on DM's farmland instead of taking a chance getting caught transporting it to his mother's house? Pretty obvious this was not a framing IMHO. And why did they frame DM only? Especially when MS has a proven criminal past... If this was a framing, there were obviously easier ways to frame him then all the trouble they went through to make it look like a frame job. DM left everything on his own property because the farmland was familiar to him and private (so he thought).

In a neighbour's cornfield?! :O That would leave them in the open, easier for others to notice, getting them caught in the act. The incinerator was the item of choice IMHO for destroying evidence and it was conveniently on DM's property. Why bother taking it to the hangar and risk other employees snooping in it? Again something a framer would have done, moved it to the hangar. IMHO the framers would have put the trailer with TB's truck inside right back in the hangar (if that is where they took it from), left it exactly where it was parked and DM wouldn't have been none the wiser, as I highly doubt he opened up the trailer on a regular basis just to take a lookie see inside kwim. Now that would be more obvious of a framers train of thought and planning then parking it at his mother's house making her seem possibly involved IMHO. HTH.

I just wanted to add one point, specifically to your bolded sentence Swedie...if this was a frame job that left everything pointing to DM, where on earth did LE come up with anything leading to the arrest and charges on MS? Maybe he was walking down the road wearing a red hoodie the day he was arrested, meaning that must be suspect #2 MOO:floorlaugh:
 
  • #1,000
I just wanted to add one point, specifically to your bolded sentence Swedie...if this was a frame job that left everything pointing to DM, where on earth did LE come up with anything leading to the arrest and charges on MS? Maybe he was walking down the road wearing a red hoodie the day he was arrested, meaning that must be suspect #2 MOO:floorlaugh:


BBM:lol:

I believe somewhere in those over 700 tips LE received there was information to lead LE to MS. His own fingerprints for starters left on the BO's Dodge Ram. If it was a four door and MS sat in the back as reported by BO, he most certainly would have left his fingerprints behind presumably on the door handles inside and out. AND being as MS already had a criminal background, his fingerprints would already be in the databank. Even if it was a two door, BO may have allowed MS to open to door to get in.

Other possible ways; acquaintances, witnesses, videos. Maybe his own gf turned him if. Maybe he told his gf something which aroused her suspicion. Maybe DM spoke to DP and DP in turn informed LE. There are so many ways in which LE were lead to MS. HTH and MOO.
 
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