The Incinerator

[Archangel7]

With multiple crime scenes, the remains won't necessarily be "THE" forensic link anyway.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Someone correct me and link if I'm wrong, but I don't think any words at all describing the state of TB's remains, other than "burned beyond recognition", have come out of any official LE quote.

(I don't consider reporting on, and rewording, what an "anonymous" source said, to be official.)

(I'm not saying it can't be discussed, I know the references you all speak of and I know they were MSM, I just think it all stems from the same anonymous source which was later denied by LE.)

(And yes I know that doesn't mean it's not true. I'm just saying it should be treated with skepticism. We heard a lot of stuff about the LB dig at the farm that was all completely untrue.)

 

[SnooperDuper]

Someone correct me and link if I'm wrong, but I don't think any words at all describing the state of TB's remains, other than "burned beyond recognition", have come out of any official LE quote.

(I don't consider reporting on, and rewording, what an "anonymous" source said, to be official.)

(I'm not saying it can't be discussed, I know the references you all speak of and I know they were MSM, I just think it all stems from the same anonymous source which was later denied by LE.)

(And yes I know that doesn't mean it's not true. I'm just saying it should be treated with skepticism. We heard a lot of stuff about the LB dig at the farm that was all completely untrue.)

"A number of searches have taken place and human remains have been located," he said. "We are convinced by the totality of the evidence, that these are the remains of Tim Bosma. The evidence indicates that the remains have been burned."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-found-dead/

"He was taken to a location in the Waterloo area where his body was burned beyond recognition," Det.-Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said Tuesday afternoon, just hours after police announced Bosma's death.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-seeking-at-least-2-other-suspects-in-tim-bosma-investigation-1.1280486#ixzz2XftfVbLx


He came in a box, a small wooden square not much bigger than a shoe box. [...] "It was just a box. A small, tiny box. Just a little …" said a teary Sharlene Bosma, unable to finish the sentence, but making the shape of a box with her hands.

...

They wanted to be buried beside each other. They wanted caskets. And they wanted a traditional viewing ceremony. [...] SB never got that. She got a box instead.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/15/tim_bosma_comes_home_heartbreakingly_in_a_small_box.html

"I didn't have a hand to hold one more time. I didn't get to touch his cheek one more time. I held a box. A box!" she said through tears.

"And for what? For a truck? Because that's all it was. It was just a truck! So we said goodbye to a box."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/14/tim-bosma-widow-sharlene-bosma_n_3443724.html

Finally, LE were on the farm on the Friday, and announced that they had found TB Tuesday morning.

 

[bessie]

I keep going back to the comment by LE that there was more ash discovered than would be typical for someone TB's size. They said "ash", not charred remains like what might be discovered after a house fire or explosion in which someone perished.
Also, I do realize that it was an unidentified source who commented that what was done would make the hair on a person's neck stand up, but that comment makes me think something happened more sinister than an outdoor, open fire. IMO, JMO

There was a child (Donovan Clubb) who went missing several years ago from southwestern Ontario who was burned after he was killed. I don't recall the police or media reporting anything about ashes in that case. There were charred remains. :-(

Which comment are you referring to? This is the only statement I've read along those lines, and it doesn't say the "suggestion" came from LE.

Despite suggestions the volume of charred material recovered exceeded what would be expected from a man of Mr. Bosma’s size, there is no evidence of additional victims, police said.

This is the direct LE quote in response to the "suggestions".

“The report of further bodies is totally untrue at this time,” Staff-Sgt. Kavanagh told the National Post.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...rom-property-of-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-murder/

Is there an actual LE statement which "suggests" an excessive volume of remains (ashes)?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Is there an actual LE statement which "suggests" an excessive volume of remains (ashes)?

No...the only official words on the remains are the quotes I pulled above

 

[puppyraiser]

I was sure I read it in one of the first reports and then the term was later changed in updated articles. Will keep looking to see if there is a cached page.

 

[expat cdn]

I was sure I read it in one of the first reports and then the term was later changed in updated articles. Will keep looking to see if there is a cached page.

I thought I read that too, about the amount of ash. I'll take a look too.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Article date would be before May 15th, when the Post posted this

Despite suggestions the volume of charred material recovered exceeded what would be expected from a man of Mr. Bosma’s size, there is no evidence of additional victims, police said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/16/police-seize-large-incinerator-from-property-of-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-murder/

LE announce they had found TB on the 14th, so around this time...

 

[puppyraiser]

I thought I read that too, about the amount of ash. I'll take a look too.

Thanks expat cdn, I am pretty sure I didn't pull that term out of thin air so I appreciate your comment.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks expat cdn, I am pretty sure I didn't pull that term out of thin air so I appreciate your comment.

I thought I remembered a tweet, and credit to a 'police source'...which is why it may have vaporized (???)

There definitely was something, or the Post wouldn't have explicitly commented as they did

You are right puppyraiser, you are not making things up (but I think the press did! And retracted it.)

ETA: I have been looking...no luck...

 

[Eljo]

Article date would be before May 15th, when the Post posted this

Despite suggestions the volume of charred material recovered exceeded what would be expected from a man of Mr. Bosma’s size, there is no evidence of additional victims, police said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/16/police-seize-large-incinerator-from-property-of-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-murder/

LE announce they had found TB on the 14th, so around this time...

The part of that article that I find interesting is the part about not knowing if the remains could be from farm animals. They must have found some remains of dubious origin. Jmo

 

[SnooperDuper]

The part of that article that I find interesting is the part about not knowing if the remains could be from farm animals. They must have found some remains of dubious origin. Jmo

Very good point. If you could not tell if they were animal or human from just looking, they were probably pretty burnt.

I think LE's choice of words, 'remains' over 'body', says something.

So too does SB's shock and anger over receiving a little box. If TB's body had been cremated before handover, and she knew what to expect then, I don't think she would have been as upset. I suspect LE handed over the remains 'as is', thus SB's anger.

 

[Eljo]

Very good point. If you could not tell if they were animal or human from just looking, they were probably pretty burnt.

I think LE's choice of words, 'remains' over 'body', says something.

So too does SB's shock and anger over receiving a little box. If TB's body had been cremated before handover, and she knew what to expect then, I don't think she would have been as upset. I suspect LE handed over the remains 'as is', thus SB's anger.

I couldn't agree more. Although it seems we are in the minority in our thoughts.

 

[puppyraiser]

I thought I remembered a tweet, and credit to a 'police source'...which is why it may have vaporized (???)

There definitely was something, or the Post wouldn't have explicitly commented as they did

You are right puppyraiser, you are not making things up (but I think the press did! And retracted it.)

ETA: I have been looking...no luck...

I believe it was in the original CBC article-the first MSM to have reported on the additional remains being discovered but that article has since been "updated".

I did go back through the past threads ( a lot of repeated info in them!) and found a post that would seem to indicate from a neighbour that something went on with the incinerator.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9432188&postcount=62"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9432188&postcount=62[/ame]

 

[Blomquist]

I believe it was in the original CBC article-the first MSM to have reported on the additional remains being discovered but that article has since been "updated".

I did go back through the past threads ( a lot of repeated info in them!) and found a post that would seem to indicate from a neighbour that something went on with the incinerator.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9432188&postcount=62

Yes I think the neighbours apparently walked/drove on Millard property and took a pic up very close of an incinerator. They don't apparently have any info of having seen or heard anything that suggests it was used, which is surprising. IMO

 

[lanman]

Yes I think the neighbours apparently walked/drove on Millard property and took a pic up very close of an incinerator. They don't apparently have any info of having seen or heard anything that suggests it was used, which is surprising. IMO

Scorched earth and burnt soil where the incinerator was located is a pretty good indication to me that it was used. Of course it's not 100% proof, it's possible someone was roasting marshmallows at that spot prior to the incinerator being place there. But that seems rather unlikely.

"Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched"

"Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located"

 

[bessie]

Thanks expat cdn, I am pretty sure I didn't pull that term out of thin air so I appreciate your comment.

I've searched quite a few articles, and none of them mention ashes. I did find a post on another board where a member posted a comment similar to what you mentioned, but it was the poster's own words.

I think the confusion springs from the time when MSM reported LE had found more remains on the farm. The reporting was full of contradictory statements. Just like this article we're talking about now. We read a direct quote from LE:
“The report of further bodies is totally untrue at this time,” Staff-Sgt. Kavanagh told the National Post.

Yet, immediately following, we see this:
It is not known if the remains might be from farm animals from the large rural property in Ayr, west of Hamilton.

It makes no sense. In fact, the entire article reads like it was patched together.

"Other remains" was first reported by CBC on May 13, not the 19th as it now reads:
Police searching the farm of Dellen Millard, the 27-year-old charged with first-degree murder after the remains of Ancaster, Ont., man Tim Bosma were discovered, have found other remains on the property.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/05/19/toronto-millard-remains-discovered.html

On May 21, CBC posted this:
In the last few days, police sources had told CBC News they believed they had found other remains on the property, but they were unsure if they were animal or human.

On Tuesday, Hamilton police Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said, "We're dealing with one set of human remains."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...rloo-millard-police-still-searching-farm.html

If "ashes" had been reported, seems it would have been posted in this thread.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209826"]Hamilton PD: "One Set of Human Remains" - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Scorched earth and burnt soil where the incinerator was located is a pretty good indication to me that it was used. Of course it's not 100% proof, it's possible someone was roasting marshmallows at that spot prior to the incinerator being place there. But that seems rather unlikely.

"Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched"

"Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located"

OK so the neighbours were on Millard property it seems ??? They stumbled across an incinerator and a scorched area. Now they say its been moved. I wonder what caused them to walk/drive onto someones property .. do we have any links that explain this venture? I ask simply because I would like to know what prompted the urge to go onto anothers property and scan for 'evidence' of a murder. It would be helpful to know any points that led to this fortunately helpful (although illegal )act . JMO MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Scorched earth and burnt soil where the incinerator was located is a pretty good indication to me that it was used. Of course it's not 100% proof, it's possible someone was roasting marshmallows at that spot prior to the incinerator being place there. But that seems rather unlikely.

"Millard neighbour says incinerator he photographed was moved recently. On Friday, at it's original location, the ground was scorched"

"Neighbour says forensic investigation tent is now set up over burnt soil he observed Friday - where incinerator was originally located"

Here is the twitter link where these quotes came from. Scroll down to May 14

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn

 

[bessie]

Here is the twitter link where these quotes came from. Scroll down to May 14

https://twitter.com/trevorjdunn

I was just about to post the same.