The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[Toltec]

What I don't understand is this: why didn't LE ask Patsy where she kept the other large DOW panties...Patsy did turn those in after the fact. How could LE overlook that pack of large panties in the Ramsey home?

My only theory about those panties is that they were not in JonBenet's drawers...they must have come from the basement, along with the longjohns, blanket, and nightgown.

 

[UKGuy]

What I don't understand is this: why didn't LE ask Patsy where she kept the other large DOW panties...Patsy did turn those in after the fact. How could LE overlook that pack of large panties in the Ramsey home?

My only theory about those panties is that they were not in JonBenet's drawers...they must have come from the basement, along with the longjohns, blanket, and nightgown.

Toltec,

Now your talking. They probably came from the basement, and the same person who removed JonBenet's size-6's also removed the size-12's. Possibly because this persons dna and fingerprints were all over these items?

From what we know its likely this person was either John or Burke?

BPD slipped up here except that Patsy categorically identified the size-12's as her property purchased at Bloomingdales and so should still be located somewhere in the house. Remember the part in the interview where she is reminded we wish to establish if the intruder brought these size-12's in to your house.

.
.

 

[DeeDee249]

What I don't understand is this: why didn't LE ask Patsy where she kept the other large DOW panties...Patsy did turn those in after the fact. How could LE overlook that pack of large panties in the Ramsey home?

.

LE should have asked Patsy a great many things they neglected to ask.
But I don't think they "overlooked" the large panties. I think they were not there to be found. I believe they either were removed from the home by the Rs that night (they left UNSEARCHED wearing heavy coats and carrying suitcases because they were going to stay with friends. BR also left that morning with overnight bags.
They could also have been hidden in the golf bag which JR seemed so frantic to have Aunt P retrieve from the home. Things she took from the home were also unsearched, and despite whether LE claims they accompanied her as she ransacked the house, apparently this was not the case. They waited outside, after giving Aunt P a police jacket to wear (which is illegal) so as not to "attract attention" (their words).

 

[Toltec]

I picture Patsy running from the home, in her fur coat and boots...notepad paper stuffed in her boots...underwear, cord, tape...

If only she had tripped and fallen!

 

[DeeDee249]

I picture Patsy running from the home, in her fur coat and boots...notepad paper stuffed in her boots...underwear, cord, tape...

If only she had tripped and fallen!

If only she'd been SEARCHED. Duh.

 

[SunnieRN]

Remember, they were 'victims'.:maddening:

 

[ozazure]

The inappropriately sized undies strikes me as a "dotty dad" kind of mistake, that a father who isn't in charge of day to day childcare makes. He sees girls undies and that's the end of the thought process, whereas PR would know they wouldn't fit even in a chaotic rush to clean up and stage the crime. I don't think this means she wasn't involved, just that to me it seems more likely a man would do that. I also think clean unstained currently fitting undies (maybe even some size 8s) might have been packed for a holiday, not in the drawer. This may have contributed to the oversized undies being selected in error. "get some floral ones with a day of the week on it" ... JR opens the drawer, sees the pack and removes a pair, dresses her, and no more thought is given to it until the strangeness of the size is brought up?

 

[DeeDee249]

The inappropriately sized undies strikes me as a "dotty dad" kind of mistake, that a father who isn't in charge of day to day childcare makes. He sees girls undies and that's the end of the thought process, whereas PR would know they wouldn't fit even in a chaotic rush to clean up and stage the crime. I don't think this means she wasn't involved, just that to me it seems more likely a man would do that. I also think clean unstained currently fitting undies (maybe even some size 8s) might have been packed for a holiday, not in the drawer. This may have contributed to the oversized undies being selected in error. "get some floral ones with a day of the week on it" ... JR opens the drawer, sees the pack and removes a pair, dresses her, and no more thought is given to it until the strangeness of the size is brought up?

Except there WAS no pack in the drawer and no other Bloomies Day Of the Week panties were found anywhere in the house. I think whoever pulled those panties out of the package that had been in the basement simply never thought that anyone would make a big deal out of the size and how poorly they fit JB. After all, they were put on her UNDER the tight-fitting longjohns, it's not like she walked around in them. I just think it was a big surprise when LE brought up the too-big panties. I also think it was a big surprise to the parents when the autopsy identified the pineapple, never thinking it would still be able to be identified as such. That is why they had to claim they knew nothing about it, despite ONLY Patsy's and BR's prints being on the bowl.

 

[SunnieRN]

But they saw fit to turn them in years later. This still makes NO sense to me whatsoever. Why not let sleeping dogs lie.

I am surprised at how many 'clues' the R's put forth, that actually pointed to each other.

 

[Toltec]

But they saw fit to turn them in years later. This still makes NO sense to me whatsoever. Why not let sleeping dogs lie.

I am surprised at how many 'clues' the R's put forth, that actually pointed to each other.

John's cooperation with evidence and statements clearly implicate Patsy...

Demanding Patsy call 911.

Handing LE Patsy's writing pad..the one with the practice note.

Telling LE that no way no how would JonBenet allow a stranger/intruder to feed her pineapple. He says that as soon as JonBenet was allowed to open her mouth, she would scream bloody murder.

Telling LE that JonBenet was wrapped "papoose style" with her own blanket.

 

[joeskidbeck]

But they saw fit to turn them in years later. This still makes NO sense to me whatsoever. Why not let sleeping dogs lie.

I am surprised at how many 'clues' the R's put forth, that actually pointed to each other.

Sunnie, I thought the same thing for years and then it occured to me that it was probably LW's idea to turn in the Bloomies. After all, Patsy had already implicated that JB had put the panties on herself, so he probably realized that it looked worse for PR that they didn't turn up anywhere in JB's room or bath.
We don't know what was said when they were turned in (that I know of), so they could have claimed that Patsy had forgotten that she had packed them for the trip and the bag was already on the plane. I'm sure they thought they had put that little lie to bed when they returned the panties.

 

[SunnieRN]

Unfortunately Beck, I am starting to feel it was a lot more sinister than that unfortunately. Toltec made a great list above of things that have been discussed before, but there are even more.

Remember his 'inside job' comment? So was this anger, or deflection. Most bizarre behavior on his part.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Unfortunately Beck, I am starting to feel it was a lot more sinister than that unfortunately. Toltec made a great list above of things that have been discussed before, but there are even more.

Remember his 'inside job' comment? So was this anger, or deflection. Most bizarre behavior on his part.

I guess I didn't get your meaning. Are you saying you think JR turned them in to implicate Patsy? I can certainly entertain that idea. It just occured to me that by the time they were turned in, the statute of limitations may have run out on JAR's culpability (if he was the molester). This would make me think that JR was only involved in the cover-up. No way he could implicate Patsy if he was the molester!

 

[Toltec]

I guess I didn't get your meaning. Are you saying you think JR turned them in to implicate Patsy? I can certainly entertain that idea. It just occured to me that by the time they were turned in, the statute of limitations may have run out on JAR's culpability (if he was the molester). This would make me think that JR was only involved in the cover-up. No way he could implicate Patsy if he was the molester!

What hasn't been discussed lately is JAR's suitcase.

Has LE ever dated the sperm-covered duvet? Did the duvet come from the Ramsey home or JAR's dorm room? What color was the duvet?

 

[joeskidbeck]

What hasn't been discussed lately is JAR's suitcase.

Has LE ever dated the sperm-covered duvet? Did the duvet come from the Ramsey home or JAR's dorm room? What color was the duvet?

Good questions Toltec. I believe the suitcase is way more important to this case than most believe. It certainly was not used to get in or out of that window. Another thing, JR admits putting it in the basement but not where it was located. Wonder why he put it there at all? It's been quite apparent that this family always used LHP for these "menial" tasks. It tells me that JR knew that LHP would deny putting it there and that she knew it was not supposed to be there. More than likely, JAR put it there himself and daddy was covering for him! More and more, I'm thinking JAR was a major player in this crime and that suitcase was his "kit" for molesting JB. John and Patsy probably discovered it in the basement that night (or possibly John found it early on the 26th and could not hide it).

 

[SunnieRN]

I guess I didn't get your meaning. Are you saying you think JR turned them in to implicate Patsy? I can certainly entertain that idea. It just occured to me that by the time they were turned in, the statute of limitations may have run out on JAR's culpability (if he was the molester). This would make me think that JR was only involved in the cover-up. No way he could implicate Patsy if he was the molester!

Yes, implicate Patsy, first step, getting her to write the ransom note and so many things after that. Was it to deflect from the truly guilty party, or because Patsy was guilty and John wanted her to pay, subconsciously?!

As for your comments about JAR's suitcase, WOW, that makes a lot of sense. Wish we really knew whether he was there that night or not.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-5-1-4-year-old-understanding-phonics_10329584.bc

Your 5-year-old now

By age 5, many kids recognize most uppercase and lowercase letters. These are typically taught in kindergarten. They also know that letters represent sounds and can begin to match the two ideas. This is called phonemic awareness, an essential reading skill.
That's why you may notice your child isolating sounds. He may realize that puppy starts with a p sound and can think of other words that start with the letter P. He may take the next logical step and begin sounding out words, breaking down "cat" into c, a, and t.
At this point, he may even be able to read a few words by sight, like "the" or "and." If he asks you to spell a word for him, go ahead. He may even try to sound out and write words on his own. These invented spellings often leave out vowels. Vowel sounds are the hardest to master because they vary so much.

 

[Toltec]

http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-5-1-4-year-old-understanding-phonics_10329584.bc

Your 5-year-old now

By age 5, many kids recognize most uppercase and lowercase letters. These are typically taught in kindergarten. They also know that letters represent sounds and can begin to match the two ideas. This is called phonemic awareness, an essential reading skill.
That's why you may notice your child isolating sounds. He may realize that puppy starts with a p sound and can think of other words that start with the letter P. He may take the next logical step and begin sounding out words, breaking down "cat" into c, a, and t.
At this point, he may even be able to read a few words by sight, like "the" or "and." If he asks you to spell a word for him, go ahead. He may even try to sound out and write words on his own. These invented spellings often leave out vowels. Vowel sounds are the hardest to master because they vary so much.

I commented on another thread that JonBenet should have started Kindergarten at age 5. She didn't start until she was 6 years-old?

 

[DeeDee249]

What hasn't been discussed lately is JAR's suitcase.

Has LE ever dated the sperm-covered duvet? Did the duvet come from the Ramsey home or JAR's dorm room? What color was the duvet?

DNA evidence like sperm, blood, urine, etc. and even prints CANNOT be dated. It is impossible to determine when they were left SCIENTIFICALLY. However, can be considered circumstantial evidence if their presence at the crime scene is found to be the result of a suspect having been there too, if that suspect was not someone who belonged there or if it was left where it was directly related to the crime. JAR's sperm on JB's body or blanket is suspect. JAR's sperm on his own blanket cannot be suspect, no matter where that blanket was found (unless the body was found in it). JAR's duvet (also mentioned as a comforter and blanket) was said to be dark colored (black?) and used in his dorm room. Like all college kids, he brought it home (to his dad's)for laundering. It was found in the suitcase in the basement of the R home, but it wouldn't be unusual. He was on break from school and probably brought it home in the suitcase to launder.
Blood belonging to JB would be suspect because she was a murder victim. While the blood itself can't be dated, blood found in and on her or her surroundings would be considered related to the crime, and there is NO innocent cause for fresh blood in the vagina of a child, especially a dead one.

 

[SunnieRN]

What I think is unusual, is the Dr. Seuss book, being inside a suitcase, which belonged to a college aged male. This is the part, the one thing that makes this strange. That and the fact that if it was there for laundering, that it was in a suitcase in the 'train room'.

So, was someone trying to implicate JAR? Covering up evidence of behaviors involving JAR and JonBenet, or just some weird coincidence?

This family is so bizarre, I don't think you can rule anything, or possibly any family member out.