The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[Toltec]

Oh good, can we stop talking about it now, or do you want to claim a victory again??

"Claim a victory???"

Hmmmmm

 

[Agatha_C]

billiejo,

Its simple, but those that have no evidence for their own claims e.g. IDI seek to talk nonsense about a rival claim e.g. RDI. They seem to sleep better at night behaving this way.

Patsy stated to BPD interviewers that she purchased underwear from Bloomingdales on a trip to New York . No underwear matching the description of that purchased by Patsy at Bloomingdales for her niece, 12-year old, Jenny and/or JonBenet were found anywhere in the house.

This size is not the issue, the size only flags up the issue, its the non-existence of the underwear thats the issue.


.

Oh how I love you UK! lol You make my day every day.

 

[Agatha_C]

First of all this is not, never has been, or ever will be a contest. There is no victory, no matter what, no matter who killed JonBenet. This is about a little girl. A girl who went to bed, with her family there and was brutally murdered on Christmas night. A girl that was in a place that was supposed to be safe, that was surrounded by people who loved her.

This is also about who killed her. The motivation and reason behind the murder. It is also about staging and what was meant to be accomplished.

The most important thing is and will always be JonBenet. This isn't a game, there can be no victory. This was a murder.

We are all here to establish facts. Facts that support our beliefs. That's the way it works. That means FACTS need to be presented! Opinions are like butt cheeks, everyone has them.

The two posts here are fantastic examples of facts, ladies you rock.

Otg and Agatha, I love humor, it is awesome, but I must say UKGuy is right there with you. I am loving his troll post, as it has been ages since I thought about or dealt with trolls. Thanks everyone! You all rock it!

You must have read my mind Sunnie.

 

[BBB167893]

I think the only significance of the larger undies is that NO INTRUDER, PEDOPHILE OR KIDNAPPER WOULD CARE about leaving her uncovered, messy or bloody. Patsy knew that package of underwear was there. This just points more clearly to one who had a personal connection with the child. A real outside killer or kidnapper, would just have taken her, forget the ransom note. forget the staging, These errors were really fatal for the Ramsey's. Regardless as to which Ramsey actually was abusing and then murdered their child,the white blanket, changing of her clothes, nightgown at the scene, all added to this incrimination.

No argument here. I don't think the issue is what size the panties were so much as WHY new ones would be put on, or in my case, why even old ones would be pulled back up.

 

[MurriFlower]

"Claim a victory???"

Hmmmmm

Yes, I was referring to Sunnies self-congratulatory post #208, claiming to have established certain things as 'facts'.

 

[MurriFlower]

First of all this is not, never has been, or ever will be a contest. There is no victory, no matter what, no matter who killed JonBenet. This is about a little girl. A girl who went to bed, with her family there and was brutally murdered on Christmas night. A girl that was in a place that was supposed to be safe, that was surrounded by people who loved her.

This is also about who killed her. The motivation and reason behind the murder. It is also about staging and what was meant to be accomplished.

The most important thing is and will always be JonBenet. This isn't a game, there can be no victory. This was a murder.

We are all here to establish facts. Facts that support our beliefs. That's the way it works. That means FACTS need to be presented! Opinions are like butt cheeks, everyone has them.

The two posts here are fantastic examples of facts, ladies you rock.

Otg and Agatha, I love humor, it is awesome, but I must say UKGuy is right there with you. I am loving his troll post, as it has been ages since I thought about or dealt with trolls. Thanks everyone! You all rock it!

Funny, you claim no contest when you are clearly proven to be wrong. The issue is settled.

However, if any of you ever accuse me of being a troll again, (merely because I do not agree), then I will ask the forum owner to apply TOS and remove your membership

 

[wonderllama]

I think that may have been better sent as a PM Murri.

 

[Ames]

http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=445216&PseudoCat=se-xx-xx-xx.esn_results

click on size chart

Like I said before...according to that chart...she would have worn a size 7....she was wearing a size 12/14.

 

[Ames]

The Ramseys were said to have been mostly packed for their trip to see the grown kids and then a Disney cruise. Some bags were already on the plane. All panties mentioned as taken for evidence are said to have come from the panty drawer, 15 of them. There must have been quite a few panties already packed for the trip. Were the bags ever checked? I'm not a troll and don't care what anyone says. I know that fifteen years ago some panties could be found in single sizes and know that JonBenet could have been in a single size 8 especially if the size 6 panties were ever washed in warm water and dried they will shrink some. Size 8/10 probably would be too big for her just like the 12/14, but size 8 would be okay. There are even today some girls brands of panties that can be bought in single sizes. Maybe not Bloomingdale's but they're out there and were back then, too.

Kinda looks like to me, that when Patsy stated that she bought size 8 panties for JB and then was confronted about the 15 pair of underwear that were taken from JB's Panty drawer....none being a size 8...or 12/14 for THAT matter...instead of saying "uh-huh"...she would have said..."OH, well I packed the larger size panties in the suitcase for the trip, that is why they were not in her panty drawer". A reasonable explaination...that Patsy did NOT offer.

 

[Agatha_C]

Kinda looks like to me, that when Patsy stated that she bought size 8 panties for JB and then was confronted about the 15 pair of underwear that were taken from JB's Panty drawer....none being a size 8...or 12/14 for THAT matter...instead of saying "uh-huh"...she would have said..."OH, well I packed the larger size panties in the suitcase for the trip, that is why they were not in her panty drawer". A reasonable explaination...that Patsy did NOT offer.

I bet old Worm Wood, was fudging his nappies when he realized PR was caught in a lie and LE knew it. Because LW, knew LE didnt find the other panties. PR was on the skittles and not on her feet.... Oh, poor skittles, you missed the golden opportunity to get the panties off your back! Then the ride back to office with stinky pants! What a horrible day that must have been.

 

[UKGuy]

Kinda looks like to me, that when Patsy stated that she bought size 8 panties for JB and then was confronted about the 15 pair of underwear that were taken from JB's Panty drawer....none being a size 8...or 12/14 for THAT matter...instead of saying "uh-huh"...she would have said..."OH, well I packed the larger size panties in the suitcase for the trip, that is why they were not in her panty drawer". A reasonable explaination...that Patsy did NOT offer.

Ames,

ITA. Looks like Patsy Ramsey made the classic IDI mistake. She assumed the questioning was all about the size of the underwear. Oops it was not, and very large elephant trap had just been set by her interviewers, then it was closed when she was told. But Mrs Ramsey we did not find any size-12 or size-8 underwear in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

A reasonable explaination...that Patsy did NOT offer.

Yes and under standard IDI analysis this absence of evidence might mean an interlocuter was being less than honest.


.

 

[SunnieRN]

Yes, I was referring to Sunnies self-congratulatory post #208, claiming to have established certain things as 'facts'.

Funny, you claim no contest when you are clearly proven to be wrong. The issue is settled.

However, if any of you ever accuse me of being a troll again, (merely because I do not agree), then I will ask the forum owner to apply TOS and remove your membership

You are so far off in your suppositions that I can not even understand these posts! When did I possibly declare a victory? I think you need to read my post again mf. I also NEVER claimed no contest. You are still posting current charts to try and counter actual evidence. You are not adding any evidence that can be used to disprove the links posted here. There are a lot of links, pictures and Patsys testimony.

I am seriously wondering how you can even claim that this is about victory. Victory of what? Patsy lied. JonBenet was found in underwear that was too large. The underwear was not where Patsy said it would be found. No pairs of underwear in the size Patsy said she wore, were ever found. If they had been packed also, she could have turned in the 8's with the 12/14's. What in heavens name is this 'victory' about?

 

[Agatha_C]

You are so far off in your suppositions that I can not even understand these posts! When did I possibly declare a victory? I think you need to read my post again mf. I also NEVER claimed no contest. You are still posting current charts to try and counter actual evidence. You are not adding any evidence that can be used to disprove the links posted here. There are a lot of links, pictures and Patsys testimony.

I am seriously wondering how you can even claim that this is about victory. Victory of what? Patsy lied. JonBenet was found in underwear that was too large. The underwear was not where Patsy said it would be found. No pairs of underwear in the size Patsy said she wore, were ever found. If they had been packed also, she could have turned in the 8's with the 12/14's. What in heavens name is this 'victory' about?

Sunnie, I saw no victory declared in post 208. I read a sadness and a frustration, but nowhere did it look like a victory. You're being bated plain and simple, the worm is on the hook and its dangling in your stream, don't bite sweets. We all know that there will never be a victory, because in the end a six year old child is still dead. There will never be victory with that as the outcome, and I know thats how you feel. You my friend would like to be the first to scream Justice, as thats all that can come from any of this.

 

[SunnieRN]

Thank you Agatha and all of you that thanked me for my post, as I was wondering if I was actually starting to try and sound the way mf tried to make it sound. Of course, that is after working the past few nights.

I guess when someone can not fight fire with fire, their frustration also grows, to try to make something appear to be true, even if it is not. Peace out everyone!!

 

[Ames]

Actually, she did not state she bought them. What she did say was that she "couldn't remember" whether she bought one set or two. I actually believe she would have bought a set for JB if she was buying one for Jenny, so I tend to agree that they may have been packed for the trip. And I bet LE never did ask to see what was in the suitcases/bags packed for the trip.

I know that some posters believe that someone placed the size 12/14 Boomies on JB, BECAUSE she had previously been wearing Bloomie Wednesday panties in her actual size earlier that day. Do we have any proof whatsoever that JB actually DID own Bloomie Day's of the Week panties? Or is that just something that Patsy said in her interview. Just curious...(I am wondering if the 4/6's that investigators found, had some Days of the Week Bloomies in the bunch...no pun intended).

 

[Ames]

You are so far off in your suppositions that I can not even understand these posts! When did I possibly declare a victory? I think you need to read my post again mf. I also NEVER claimed no contest. You are still posting current charts to try and counter actual evidence. You are not adding any evidence that can be used to disprove the links posted here. There are a lot of links, pictures and Patsys testimony.

I am seriously wondering how you can even claim that this is about victory. Victory of what? Patsy lied. JonBenet was found in underwear that was too large. The underwear was not where Patsy said it would be found. No pairs of underwear in the size Patsy said she wore, were ever found. If they had been packed also, she could have turned in the 8's with the 12/14's. What in heavens name is this 'victory' about?

Sunnie...don't waste your time anymore. I have said this over and over and over again, only to be ignored or asked to provide YET ANOTHER link or source that will also be discounted. IDI's try to muddy the waters...so to speak. Trying to take the focus off of anything and everything that is evidence of RDI. I am sure (pretty sure) that MF and Holdon are smart enough to realize that what we have posted ARE FACTS...and correct sources. MY GOSH...theres Patsy's interview...AND Pictures...what they heck more do they need?? Nothing more....IMO. They have their facts and their sources...thanks to all of us...they just choose to ignore them. WE know the truth....

 

[Agatha_C]

I know that some posters believe that someone placed the size 12/14 Boomies on JB, BECAUSE she had previously been wearing Bloomie Wednesday panties in her actual size earlier that day. Do we have any proof whatsoever that JB actually DID own Bloomie Day's of the Week panties? Or is that just something that Patsy said in her interview. Just curious...(I am wondering if the 4/6's that investigators found, had some Days of the Week Bloomies in the bunch...no pun intended).

Oh Dear Ames, but you had too know, I of all the people would see the pun...

A bunch of Bloomies-----> or a bunch of blooming idiots.... :floorlaugh:

Okay sorry, dont want to get on a roll, but I found it funny and you know, add me to the bunch...LOL.... (by idiots I mean those involved in the case, not any posters)

 

[UKGuy]

I know that some posters believe that someone placed the size 12/14 Boomies on JB, BECAUSE she had previously been wearing Bloomie Wednesday panties in her actual size earlier that day. Do we have any proof whatsoever that JB actually DID own Bloomie Day's of the Week panties? Or is that just something that Patsy said in her interview. Just curious...(I am wondering if the 4/6's that investigators found, had some Days of the Week Bloomies in the bunch...no pun intended).

Ames,

They probably did. The reason is that Patsy stated she purchased size-12's for her niece Jenny at the same time JonBenet made her choice. e.g. the former was prompted by the latter.

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

5 Q. Was it something that was selected
6 by JonBenet?
7 A. I believe so.
8 Q. Was it your intention, when you
9 purchased those, for those to be for her,
10 not for some third party as a gift?
11 A. I bought some things that were
12 gifts and some things for her. So I
13 don't --
14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is
15 your best recollection that the purchase of
16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the
17 week, was something that you bought for her,
18 whether it was just I am buying underwear
19 for my kids or these are special, here's a
20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your
21 intention that she would wear those?
22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my
0081
1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two.
15 Q. Do you remember what size they
16 were?
17 A. Not exactly.

JonBenet's size- 6's were never an issue, not even during the interview, else Patsy would have been quizzed on this.

The issue were the size-12's and Patsy knew this full well, so attempted to glide around the subject. First by conflating Jenny's and JonBenet's underwear together in terms of no discernable size differential. Secondly that JonBenet dressed herself in the size-12's.

By the time ramnesia had set in Patsy had made incontrovertible statements about the size-12's, and been caught in BPD's elephant trap, illustrated by the BPD finding no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

You also have Patsy not noticing what underwear JonBenet was wearing when she undressed her for bed:

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

prior to going to the Whites, did you see
6 JonBenet in panties? In other words, were
7 you at any point, prior to going to the
8 Whites, in the process of her getting
9 dressed, did you ever see if she was wearing
10 panties?
11 A. I mean, I just probably didn't
12 notice. I would, she must have had them on
13 or I would have certainly noticed if she
14 didn't have any on.
15 Q. When you came home and you got
16 her ready for bed, did you notice if she was
17 wearing panties? When you changed her out
18 of the black velvet --
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q. - type pants --
21 A. Right.
22 Q. -- and into the long underwear
23 pants --
24 A. Uh-huh, right.
25 Q. -- the White ones, did you notice
0113
1 if she had a pair of panties on?
2 A. Yes, she did. I believe she did.
3 Q. Why do you remember that? I
4 mean, what do you remember? I just want to
5 know what you remember about that.
6 A. Well, I took the jeans off and
7 put the long leggies on.
8 Q. And you noticed that she had
9 panties on in that process?
10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
11 Q. You have to answer yes or no.
12 A. Well, I noticed -- I mean,
13 nothing was unusual. I mean, if she hadn't
14 had panties on, it would have been unusual.
15 So --
16 Q. So there was nothing unusual
17 there?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. When you actually removed those --
20 you have -- they are black velvet pants?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did the panties come down
23 with them when you removed those pants, if
24 you remember?
25 A. I don't remember.
0114
1 Q. If they had, would you remember,
2 or is that too long ago?
3 A. It has been a long time.

Notice ramnesia occurs when the obvious question about the size-12's is asked.

So if Patsy only purchased the size-12's for Jenny Davis and there were no other day-of-the-week Bloomingdales in JonBenet's underwear drawer. This would not be inconsistent with Patsy's memory loss.

So, Patsy, in constructing a rationale for JonBenet to be wearing size-12's, was either ignorant of, or forgot that there were no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer?

I reckon she was lying on someone elses behalf and was ignorant that the size-12's had been removed, not from the drawer, which is a PR fiction, but from the basement.

That is Patsy could never physically remove the size-12's from the basement and subsequently the house, then state she placed them into JonBenet's underwear drawer!

So who was Patsy lying for?



.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ramnesia was a disease they got as a gift from their lawyers. Because their defense team delayed the actual interviews for such a long time, the Rs could quite easily answer that they didn't remember.

 

[cynic]

Ramnesia was a disease they got as a gift from their lawyers. Because their defense team delayed the actual interviews for such a long time, the Rs could quite easily answer that they didn't remember.

It is apparently contagious, LA caught it as well.