The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[BBB167893]

You know, I just did that, Googled Jonbenet oversize and underwear, and all I came up with were comments on forums like this one.

That's odd. It might help that I used a "d" on the end. And I put each word into quotations.

 

[otg]

A lot of you have made a lot of great posts here. I thank you for that. Agathas' mud flaps, with otgs' visual were hilarious!

There comes a time, when you believe in something, that you decide to take a stand. My stand was in not allowing a muddying of the waters, yet again. There was a lot of proof given to support that the size 12/14 undies existed, that JonBenet wore size 6 undies and that 4 and 6's were found in her drawer.

Fifteen pairs of undies were found. None of the undies that Patsy stated she put in the drawer were there. There were no size 8 and no size 12/14. These 6 pair of size 12/14's were instead turned in, over 2 years later, by the R's, through their law team.

All of this is substantiated and was here, for everyone to view. By allowing statements, to go unchallenged, that have been proven to be incorrect, is muddying the waters and making it harder to keep the facts straight.

We are discussing and arguing ideas that have been discussed and argued for many years. Should we allow misinformation to continue to be accepted? Or should the points that can be proven as fact, become just that, fact?

Maybe I bored everyone, or even made the conversation comical, but, I also established the difference between a fact and an opinion, I hope. To me, this was very important.

Sunnie, I certainly hope my occasional silliness doesn't get on your, or anyone's, nerves. I just can't help but occasionally see something funny that I have to try and make funnier. Sometimes, I think, making light of something that is dead serious helps others see just how silly the argument is. But alas, I'm afraid some are just lost in the minutia or dedicated to an outcome. The reason for the latter is obvious: As cynic so meticulously laid out in the start of this thread, and as you and others have added to the discussion supporting the position that the oversized Bloomies are proof of Ramsey involvement, continuing to uphold their innocence is either pure stubbornness or absolute dedication. And it's not just the fact that they were used under the given circumstances and the implication that can be deduced from it -- it's the continued attempt to cover up during questioning by stretching facts and testing credulity.

I think there are people who truly believe the Ramseys are not guilty of anything. I wish I could. But if I did, I would try not to let it blind me to anything that might convince me otherwise. But despite your valiant attempt to add light on the subject, realize that you are not going to convince everyone... and walk away. You've done your best.
.

 

[otg]

claudi, PR stated she bought Bloomies for JBR at the same time. Where were they?

Sorry, Murri, but I think Patsy said she didn't remember whether she did or not. That's not quite the same as "stating she bought Bloomies for JBR". If your recollection is different than mine on that, I'd like to see a source.
.

 

[MurriFlower]

Sorry, Murri, but I think Patsy said she didn't remember whether she did or not. That's not quite the same as "stating she bought Bloomies for JBR". If your recollection is different than mine on that, I'd like to see a source.
.

"16 THOMAS HANEY: Did JonBenet have
17 panties with the names of each day of the week
18 on it?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum."

snip

"18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Well, let's start
19 with what - I will make it very simple for
20 you, Mrs. Ramsey. What information are you
21 in possession of or what do you know about
22 the underwear that your daughter was wearing
23 at the time she was found murdered?
24 A. I have heard that she had on a
25 pair of Bloomi's that said Wednesday on them.

0078
1 Q. The underwear that she was
2 wearing, that is Bloomi's panties, do you
3 know where they come from as far as what
4 store?
5 A. Bloomingdales in New York.
6 Q. Who purchased those?
7 A. I did.
8 Q. Do you recall when you purchased
9 them?
10 A. It was, I think, November of '96."

snip

"2 Q. Which of those two trips did you
3 purchase the Bloomi's?
4 A. The first trip.
5 Q. Was it something that was selected
6 by JonBenet?
7 A. I believe so.
8 Q. Was it your intention, when you
9 purchased those, for those to be for her,
10 not for some third party as a gift?
11 A. I bought some things that were
12 gifts and some things for her. So I
13 don't --
14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is
15 your best recollection that the purchase of
16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the
17 week, was something that you bought for her,
18 whether it was just I am buying underwear
19 for my kids or these are special, here's a
20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your
21 intention that she would wear those?
22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my

0081
1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two.
15 Q. Do you remember what size they
16 were?
17 A. Not exactly."

"6 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And you
7 understand the reason we are asking this, we
8 want to make sure that this intruder did not
9 bring these panties with him, this was
10 something --
11 A. Right.
12 Q. - that was in the house.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And we are clear that, as far as
15 you know, that is something that was in this
16 house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- that belonged to your daughter,
19 these panties?
20 A. Correct."

 

[UKGuy]

Sorry, Murri, but I think Patsy said she didn't remember whether she did or not. That's not quite the same as "stating she bought Bloomies for JBR". If your recollection is different than mine on that, I'd like to see a source.
.

otg,

So Patsy's lies are being used to suggest RDI posters might be hallucinating, or smoking non-tobacco products?

Regardless of what Patsy purchased nothing was found to match her description.

Had it been found then 13 pairs of identically sized Bloomingdales might have been discovered or 7 pairs of size-6's and 6-pairs of size-12 Bloomingdales.

Neither combination was found despite a house search, so either Patsy lied or the intruder stole the underwear?

But no it was not the intruder who stole the underwear because Patsy knew she had been caught out lying so decided to magic up some size-12's and claim Hey we just found these, you guys must have missed them, first time around

The issue as Patsy diagnosed it is: non-existence of underwear, not their size.

Now where are my non-tobacco products?


.

 

[Tadpole12]

Heyya MF.

Such nonspecific detail about sizing within those exchanges, but the sizing issue takes on specifics with RG.
http://www.suite101.com/content/jonbenet-ramsey-case-true-crime-trivia-a87415
posted Dec 31, 2008.

What's the origin of the size 12 factoid?

 

[celticthyme]

I think the only significance of the larger undies is that NO INTRUDER, PEDOPHILE OR KIDNAPPER WOULD CARE about leaving her uncovered, messy or bloody. Patsy knew that package of underwear was there. This just points more clearly to one who had a personal connection with the child. A real outside killer or kidnapper, would just have taken her, forget the ransom note. forget the staging, These errors were really fatal for the Ramsey's. Regardless as to which Ramsey actually was abusing and then murdered their child,the white blanket, changing of her clothes, nightgown at the scene, all added to this incrimination.

 

[celticthyme]

KariKae,

They were the correct size, Patsy says so in her interview!


.

Patsy says a lot of things in her interviews, most of it is NOT TRUE ! !

 

[txsvicki]

The Ramseys were said to have been mostly packed for their trip to see the grown kids and then a Disney cruise. Some bags were already on the plane. All panties mentioned as taken for evidence are said to have come from the panty drawer, 15 of them. There must have been quite a few panties already packed for the trip. Were the bags ever checked? I'm not a troll and don't care what anyone says. I know that fifteen years ago some panties could be found in single sizes and know that JonBenet could have been in a single size 8 especially if the size 6 panties were ever washed in warm water and dried they will shrink some. Size 8/10 probably would be too big for her just like the 12/14, but size 8 would be okay. There are even today some girls brands of panties that can be bought in single sizes. Maybe not Bloomingdale's but they're out there and were back then, too.

 

[MurriFlower]

The Ramseys were said to have been mostly packed for their trip to see the grown kids and then a Disney cruise. Some bags were already on the plane. All panties mentioned as taken for evidence are said to have come from the panty drawer, 15 of them. There must have been quite a few panties already packed for the trip. Were the bags ever checked? I'm not a troll and don't care what anyone says. I know that fifteen years ago some panties could be found in single sizes and know that JonBenet could have been in a single size 8 especially if the size 6 panties were ever washed in warm water and dried they will shrink some. Size 8/10 probably would be too big for her just like the 12/14, but size 8 would be okay. There are even today some girls brands of panties that can be bought in single sizes. Maybe not Bloomingdale's but they're out there and were back then, too.

vicki that makes a lot of sense. So perhaps if JBR put on the size 12 new panties, it was because her other nice new Bloomies ones were packed. It was Christmas and she was going visiting, so it makes sense that she wouldn't want to put on a pair of old stained ones. Still doesn't explain why BPD couldn't find the other six size 12's, unless she then put them into the bags as well to take with her on holidays. So, while BPD say they looked in the drawer, as I suggested earlier, they may not have searched everywhere, and I never thought that her clothes may have been packed for the trip. Thank you very much for that tip.

I think one of the problems re (the s word) is that Bloomingdales girls clothes are not numbered according to age, especially so in the larger sizes. So a size 6 fits a 5 year old; size 7 fits 6-7 yo; 8 fits 7-8; (no size 9) size 10 fits 8-9 yo; (no 11) size 12 fits 9-10yo; size 14 fits 10-11 yo; size 16 fits 11-12yo. Refer to my post on this thread #50. The panties PR purchased for her 11-12 yo niece, should have been size 16. If she bought size 12, they would probably have been too small anyway.

 

[billiejo]

Hey guys I'm really out of the loop on the JB case and try as I might I can't figure out what the big pantie thing means.Anyone care to draw me a picture? 8~)

 

[Peepers]

Hey guys I'm really out of the loop on the JB case and try as I might I can't figure out what the big pantie thing means.Anyone care to draw me a picture? 8~)

oh boy.


lol

 

[DeeDee249]

claudi, PR stated she bought Bloomies for JBR at the same time. Where were they?

Actually, she did not state she bought them. What she did say was that she "couldn't remember" whether she bought one set or two. I actually believe she would have bought a set for JB if she was buying one for Jenny, so I tend to agree that they may have been packed for the trip. And I bet LE never did ask to see what was in the suitcases/bags packed for the trip.

 

[MurriFlower]

Actually, she did not state she bought them. What she did say was that she "couldn't remember" whether she bought one set or two. I actually believe she would have bought a set for JB if she was buying one for Jenny, so I tend to agree that they may have been packed for the trip. And I bet LE never did ask to see what was in the suitcases/bags packed for the trip.

Yes, it's a bit of a convoluted question/answer, but I interpreted it to mean that she remembers buying a set for Jenny and she couldn't remember if she bought one or two sets for JBR.

Here's that bit again.

"22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my

0081
1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two."

 

[Agatha_C]

A lot of you have made a lot of great posts here. I thank you for that. Agathas' mud flaps, with otgs' visual were hilarious!

There comes a time, when you believe in something, that you decide to take a stand. My stand was in not allowing a muddying of the waters, yet again. There was a lot of proof given to support that the size 12/14 undies existed, that JonBenet wore size 6 undies and that 4 and 6's were found in her drawer.

Fifteen pairs of undies were found. None of the undies that Patsy stated she put in the drawer were there. There were no size 8 and no size 12/14. These 6 pair of size 12/14's were instead turned in, over 2 years later, by the R's, through their law team.

All of this is substantiated and was here, for everyone to view. By allowing statements, to go unchallenged, that have been proven to be incorrect, is muddying the waters and making it harder to keep the facts straight.

We are discussing and arguing ideas that have been discussed and argued for many years. Should we allow misinformation to continue to be accepted? Or should the points that can be proven as fact, become just that, fact?

Maybe I bored everyone, or even made the conversation comical, but, I also established the difference between a fact and an opinion, I hope. To me, this was very important.

Oh Sunni Girl,

In no way do I find you boring and I love to watch you have your say! I just cant get past how silly those panties looked on my child and most likely on JB. I also think, there comes a point in time, when I can either laugh or be TO'd. To quote your brilliant words "sometime laughter is the more mature route" may not be an exact quote, but close enough. Rock on sister!

 

[MurriFlower]

Actually, she did not state she bought them. What she did say was that she "couldn't remember" whether she bought one set or two. I actually believe she would have bought a set for JB if she was buying one for Jenny, so I tend to agree that they may have been packed for the trip. And I bet LE never did ask to see what was in the suitcases/bags packed for the trip.

my bold

Yes, this makes sense, because PR was putting the final things in before she went downstairs and found the RN. So it's likely that the underwear and most of the clothes were already packed as I recall PR saying in one interview that she did this on Christmas Day. This explains why there were no Bloomies found. Good ole BPD, they really did have a 'boys look' after all!!

 

[Ames]

Refer to the Bloomingdales size chart I posted, I'm not going over it all again and again. No size 12-14 exists at Bloomingdales in girls clothing, so it MUST be a lie.

Yes..it "MUST" be a lie...NOT!!!

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=186543"]The Gigantic (Girls Size 12-14) "Bloomies" Underwear Found On JonBenet - Page 17 - Forums For Justice[/ame]

Post #197...picture of 12/14 label inside of "Bloomies" panties...and of tag with size 12/14...and the purchase price. Thank you so much KoldKase!!!!!

So YES..size 12/14 Bloomingdale's panties (aka Bloomies) do exist. I have heard that they are hard to get now, though. Okay...how much more proof do you need. Patsy admitted to buying 12/14 "Bloomie" panties for Jenny.....she later said that she decided NOT to give them to Jenny, so she put them in JB's drawer, for her to use if she wanted. JB's body was found wearing a pair of 12/14 "Bloomies"....The Ramsey's turned over the remaining pack of size 12/14 Bloomies...about two years later. And now..I show you a picture of size 12/14 in the label and tag of a pair of "Bloomies". Yes Virginia...size 12/14 "Bloomies" DO exist.

 

[Agatha_C]

"16 THOMAS HANEY: Did JonBenet have
17 panties with the names of each day of the week
18 on it?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum."




Murri, Cynic posted a large amount of info on the panty size and an excellent job cynic did, I might say. However, I think we all missed something valuable in the 2000 interview of PR. I found it while rereading Cynics post...

Q. (By Mr. Kane) Okay. Were you aware that these were the size of panties that she was wearing, and this has been publicized, it is out in the open, that they were size 12 to 14? Were you aware of that?
A. I have become aware of that, yes.
Q. And how did you become aware of that?
A. Something I read, I am sure.
Q. And I will just state a fact here. I mean, there were 15 pairs of panties taken out of, by the police, out of JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is that where she kept -
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. -- where you were describing that they were just put in that drawer?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And every one of those was either a size four or a size six. Okay?
Would that have been about the size pair of panties that she wore when she was six years old?
A. I would say more like six to eight. There were probably some in there that were too small.
Q. Okay. But not size 12 to 14?
A. Not typically, no.
MR. KANE: Okay.
Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And you understand the reason we are asking this, we want to make sure that this intruder did not bring these panties with him, this was something --
A. Right.
Q. - that was in the house.
A. Yes.
Q. And we are clear that, as far as you know, that is something that was in this house?
A. Yes.
Q. -- that belonged to your daughter, these panties?
A. Correct.
Patsy Ramsey interview August 28, 2000


LE was clearly making sure the panties were not brought in by the killer. PR lets them know, that no, those size 12/14 panties belonged in the house.

Two questions for you Murri...

1. How is it PR remembers buying the panties for her niece in 1996, but couldnt remember buying any for JBR?

2. If the panties were so special that JBR had to have some, why then werent any bought for her in her size?

 

[claudicici]

vicki that makes a lot of sense. So perhaps if jbr put on the size 12 new panties, it was because her other nice new bloomies ones were packed. It was christmas and she was going visiting, so it makes sense that she wouldn't want to put on a pair of old stained ones. Still doesn't explain why bpd couldn't find the other six size 12's, unless she then put them into the bags as well to take with her on holidays. So, while bpd say they looked in the drawer, as i suggested earlier, they may not have searched everywhere, and i never thought that her clothes may have been packed for the trip. Thank you very much for that tip.

I think one of the problems re (the s word) is that bloomingdales girls clothes are not numbered according to age, especially so in the larger sizes. So a size 6 fits a 5 year old; size 7 fits 6-7 yo; 8 fits 7-8; (no size 9) size 10 fits 8-9 yo; (no 11) size 12 fits 9-10yo; size 14 fits 10-11 yo; size 16 fits 11-12yo. Refer to my post on this thread #50. The panties pr purchased for her 11-12 yo niece, should have been size 16. If she bought size 12, they would probably have been too small anyway.

murry the chart you keep referring to is for clothes not panties.bloomingdale's is not selling any girl panties on their website right now so there is no chart for that.there is no girl size 16 and there never has been.

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes..it "MUST" be a lie...NOT!!!

The Gigantic (Girls Size 12-14) "Bloomies" Underwear Found On JonBenet - Page 17 - Forums For Justice

Post #197...picture of 12/14 label inside of "Bloomies" panties...and of tag with size 12/14...and the purchase price. Thank you so much KoldKase!!!!!

So YES..size 12/14 Bloomingdale's panties (aka Bloomies) do exist. I have heard that they are hard to get now, though. Okay...how much more proof do you need. Patsy admitted to buying 12/14 "Bloomie" panties for Jenny.....she later said that she decided NOT to give them to Jenny, so she put them in JB's drawer, for her to use if she wanted. JB's body was found wearing a pair of 12/14 "Bloomies"....The Ramsey's turned over the remaining pack of size 12/14 Bloomies...about two years later. And now..I show you a picture of size 12/14 in the label and tag of a pair of "Bloomies". Yes Virginia...size 12/14 "Bloomies" DO exist.

This brand is St Eve. Bloomingdales do/did sell other brands of panties as well. What has this to do with the Bloomies panties??