The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[Leila]

Hi Snaz. I am only suggesting they were helpful at the beginning by calling 911,reporting the odor as a dead body, and turning over evidence and information without warrant. Beyond that I cannot support any of their behavior.

But my point is not about CA and GA but about the handling of the car by LE and whether it will have any impact on any evidence at trial which will hopefully bring us back to topic.

I think it will definitely have an impact on evidence presented at trial. There's important evidence in the Pontiac and the defense is likely to state right off the bat that the car/evidence was compromised by the failure of LE to take the car into evidence immediately. The defense will argue that the car/evidence could have been tampered with at any time after it was out of Casey's possession on June 27th up until LE took possession of it on July 17th.

One continuing theme from the defense and GA/CA has been to blame law enforcement for everything, and I think this will be carried through the trial. We're all going to get tired of hearing "LE failed to do their job."

 

[JBean]

I don't know if a search warrant was ever issued. But can you imagine if the car had been taken on the 15th? I think there would have been a lot of objections raised by the defense that could have gotten the car evidence thrown out.

They handed it over to help the investigators the 17th voluntarily and freely in an effort to assist the investigation. My best guess is that they would have done the same on the 15th as well.
I am not sure if I understand what you are saying about the problem with collecting evidence given voluntarily on the 15th without a SW.

 

[JBean]

I think it will definitely have an impact on evidence presented at trial. There's important evidence in the Pontiac and the defense is likely to state right off the bat that the car/evidence was compromised by the failure of LE to take the car into evidence immediately. The defense will argue that the car/evidence could have been tampered with at any time after it was out of Casey's possession on June 27th up until LE took possession of it on July 17th.

One continuing theme from the defense and GA/CA has been to blame law enforcement for everything, and I think this will be carried through the trial. We're all going to get tired of hearing "LE failed to do their job."

Good points Leila.

 

[songline]

I think it will definitely have an impact on evidence presented at trial. There's important evidence in the Pontiac and the defense is likely to state right off the bat that the car/evidence was compromised by the failure of LE to take the car into evidence immediately. The defense will argue that the car/evidence could have been tampered with at any time after it was out of Casey's possession on June 27th up until LE took possession of it on July 17th.

One continuing theme from the defense and GA/CA has been to blame law enforcement for everything, and I think this will be carried through the trial. We're all going to get tired of hearing "LE failed to do their job."

ITA but can we actually say they did the right thing here? NOT, wish it did not happen that way really...
I don't think the defence has a story here...not only does she lose her kid, she abandons her car and then the ODDI found her abandoned car to plant evidence in it....:waitasec:
love to hear that one....

 

[treeseeker]

Q14, Q15, and Q17 are all soil and dirt samples and residue obtained from the vehicle trunk (listed in link below). Yuri Melich also mentions the dirt and soil in his testimony at the bond hearing.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...eports-car-trunk/1/lg/11208-11280_Page_05.htm

Thanks Harmony2, Det. Melich's report is what I was thinking of.

 

[RR0004]

Just FYI, we do not have anyone involved with LE verified on the board.
Professional Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I understand that it was compromised, but all the more reason to button it up ASAP.
Like i said, may be absolutely nothing at all.

Ya know, I really am curious as to how this will work. Could they (the defense) say that someone else put Caylee's decomposing hair in the trunk? Or would they say because the car wasn't sealed that any/ and all evidence was compromised? But...wouldn't that still be the case because the car had been left unattended even days before it was towed? Or do you think it'll just be used to make LE look incompetent (and I hate even typing that)?

 

[mitzi]

I don't have a link, but IIRC, I remember reading (sometime in the beginning of this case), that the car was sealed at the Anthonys until LE could get a search warrant and take the car into their custody.

Anyone else remember this?

 

[chefmom]

Ideally, the car shouldn't have been moved from the impound yard. Once George and the tow yard owner smelled the odor of human decomposition, LE should have been called to come to the tow yard. They likely would have taken possession of it at that point.

If LE had taken possession of the Pontiac at the tow yard, we might be dealing with a different story right now.

ITA! IF GA had called LE from the towyard, who knows what valuable evidence may have been saved. I'm just not sure that LE can carry the blame for not having taken the car sooner since they were called in for a "missing" child that the mother was claiming had been dropped off with the Nanny who then ran away with her. Nothing to do with the car. Once an officer smelled the car, a warrant would have to be obtained to take possession of it, which they did. The problem is that there was some lag time in between CA/GA retrieving the car from the towyard and the 911 call that brought LE into the case. There was time to go back to work, clean the car, pick up Amy and find KC. Pity!

 

[JBean]

ITA! IF GA had called LE from the towyard, who knows what valuable evidence may have been saved. I'm just not sure that LE can carry the blame for not having taken the car sooner since they were called in for a "missing" child that the mother was claiming had been dropped off with the Nanny who then ran away with her. Nothing to do with the car. Once an officer smelled the car, a warrant would have to be obtained to take possession of it, which they did. The problem is that there was some lag time in between CA/GA retrieving the car from the towyard and the 911 call that brought LE into the case. There was time to go back to work, clean the car, pick up Amy and find KC. Pity!

LE knew about the decomp smell in the car as early as the 15th.

They picked the car up on the 17th.(according to YM's bond hearing testimony)It was given over voluntarily seemingly with no search warrant. GA signed an affadavit releasing the car to LE.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLb0RYC1q5o[/ame]


If Mitzi can find something that they sealed the car in between that would be awesome.

Otherwise it is too long imo.

 

[BeanE]

LE knew about the decomp smell in the car as early as the 15th.

They picked the car up on the 17th.(according to YM's bond hearing testimony)It was given over voluntarily seemingly with no search warrant. GA signed an affadavit releasing the car to LE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLb0RYC1q5o


If Mitzi can find something that they sealed the car in between that would be awesome.

Otherwise it is too long imo.

BBM

Watching that video, it appears Yuri has his dates mixed. He says GA picked up the car from the towyard on the 16th, and LE towed the car to the forensics bay the next day, the 17th.

We know GA picked up the car on the 15th. The next day would be the 16th.

In Cindy's OCSO interview video, around 45:05, Yuri confronts CA for having said on TV that LE didn't tow the car for 2 days, when in fact, it was towed in less than 24 hours. Cindy concedes that this is true.

I agree that there is cause for concern regarding the first responding officers to the house, and when the car was inspected regarding the smell, and whether it was sealed or guarded until it was towed.

There are a few things missing that would help us know better how concerned we should be, such as the call notes from the 911 operator. We simply don't know right now whether Cindy's statement was passed on to the first responding officer.

What bothers me the most is Lee's statement that KC was allowed to go seemingly unsupervised into the garage with the car. That would concern me even if the car didn't smell like decomp. On the other hand, Lee could be lying, or LE could have been watching KC without Lee being aware of it.

The other thing I'm keeping in mind is that for some time, LE was under the impression that Caylee had been left with a nanny - not that KC had done anything to/with her. It was only after they investigated and found one lie after another that they began to look seriously at KC, and it is at that point, immediately, that Yuri thought of the smell in the car, and that was astute of him.

I haven't yet seen anything about sealing or guarding the car, but I have it in the back of my head that somebody said something about this somewhere along the line. I'm still poking around, and will post if I find anything on it.

BeanE

 

[JWG]

CSI Bloise's report indicates he began processing the car at 7:46 PM on July 16, less than 24 hours after Cindy's 911 calls.

View attachment Pontiac Search.pdf

 

[BeanE]

CSI Bloise's report indicates he began processing the car at 7:46 PM on July 16, less than 24 hours after Cindy's 911 calls.

View attachment 6548

7:46 is when the detective arrived at the forensics bay, and the car was already there.

Note: the vehicle doors as well as the trunk were sealed

Listening to Yuri at the bond hearing again (video above), it sounds like he had 2 CSI people at the house looking at the car prior to it being towed to the forensics garage, but I'm not completely clear on that. It also sounds that way according to JWG's doc because Detective Beasley says she impounded the car. Sounds like Beasley might be one of the two CSI people?

I'm gonna bet the car was sealed at the house - but it's a bet, not proven fact ;-)

 

[BeanE]

Yuri's Investigative Report
http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf

PDF page 16

While Melich was preparing Casey’s charging affidavit, he told Beasley to go to the A's home and get the car.

Beasley went to the house and taped up the car.

This is the same timeframe that the trash bag was collected.

This is on the 16th. Trying to find a time for these activities.

 

[JBean]

BBM

Watching that video, it appears Yuri has his dates mixed. He says GA picked up the car from the towyard on the 16th, and LE towed the car to the forensics bay the next day, the 17th.

We know GA picked up the car on the 15th. The next day would be the 16th.

In Cindy's OCSO interview video, around 45:05, Yuri confronts CA for having said on TV that LE didn't tow the car for 2 days, when in fact, it was towed in less than 24 hours. Cindy concedes that this is true.

I agree that there is cause for concern regarding the first responding officers to the house, and when the car was inspected regarding the smell, and whether it was sealed or guarded until it was towed.

There are a few things missing that would help us know better how concerned we should be, such as the call notes from the 911 operator. We simply don't know right now whether Cindy's statement was passed on to the first responding officer.

What bothers me the most is Lee's statement that KC was allowed to go seemingly unsupervised into the garage with the car. That would concern me even if the car didn't smell like decomp. On the other hand, Lee could be lying, or LE could have been watching KC without Lee being aware of it.

The other thing I'm keeping in mind is that for some time, LE was under the impression that Caylee had been left with a nanny - not that KC had done anything to/with her. It was only after they investigated and found one lie after another that they began to look seriously at KC, and it is at that point, immediately, that Yuri thought of the smell in the car, and that was astute of him.

I haven't yet seen anything about sealing or guarding the car, but I have it in the back of my head that somebody said something about this somewhere along the line. I'm still poking around, and will post if I find anything on it.

BeanE

I have always thought they waited 12 -24 hours ( too long imo) until I rewatched that video yesterday and YM said the 17th. Which is why I qualified the statement. I think YM made a mistake also because I think 2 days would just be crazy.

BeanE, if dispatch did not tell responding officers about the smell then i truly hope that person has been relieved of their duties. IMO, that is like dispatch forgetting to tell responding officers that the bank robbers are armed. It is critical information that the officers need to have, Part of the job of dispatch is to get the info to the first people there.

because GA told YM immediately, and was still talking about it at his 8-4 interview I also believe he would have told the first responders as well.

Even as they were investigating a kidnapping, a decomp smell in the car should have caused LE to look at the car carefully and then seal it off and certainly not allow access immediately, especially since GA and CA were cooperative.

I don't think they even started looking at that car for at least 24 hours.

As I say it may mean nothing or it may mean something. jmho thanks for all your good links on both sides of this issue

 

[JBean]

CSI Bloise's report indicates he began processing the car at 7:46 PM on July 16, less than 24 hours after Cindy's 911 calls.

View attachment 6548

So it was a good 24 hours yikes.
Thanks JWG probably some tow time before that but still falls into the 12-24 range. good link.

So lets nail down a mythbuster so we can put this to bed.
LE learned of the decomp smell on the 15th
LE removed the car on the 16

We can now confrim the car was sealed at the property and we can document a time I think.
We can now confirm that LE knew about the decomp odor and we can try and figure a time also.
we know KC had access to the car alone also hopefully we can document a time.

Good sleuthing and lively discussion,have a great Monday everyone my foot is healed and I am back to work.

 

[BeanE]

So it was a good 24 hours yikes.
Thanks JWG probably some tow time before that but still falls into the 12-24 range. good link.

So lets nail down a mythbuster so we can put this to bed.
LE learned of the decomp smell on the 15th
LE removed the car on the 16

We can now confrim the car was sealed at the property and we can document a time I think.
We can now confirm that LE knew about the decomp odor and we can try and figure a time also.
we know KC had access to the car alone also hopefully we can document a time.

Good sleuthing and lively discussion,have a great Monday everyone my foot is healed and I am back to work.

It was while Yuri was writing up the charging affidavit for KC's arrest that he called Beasley to go get the car.

KC's arrest was at 16:33.

http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/files/caseyanthony02.pdf

So between 16:33 and the time from JWG's doc above when the car is documented at the forensics lab, give or take a few minutes for towing time etc.

I haven't been able to find a document from Beasley where she documents her sealing of the car, but I think the timeframe we have is close enough unless something comes up where we need a more exact time.

On the 911 operator and whether Cindy's decomp statement was given to the first responding officer, I would say of course! ... except... that I believe, from looking at Kronk's calls to 911, and then seeing what was documented (and what was left out) of the 911 call notes, there may be a glitch in the process process. For myself, personally, after seeing that, I just can't trust that the info was passed on without seeing the call notes.

I'll try to find any records from the first LE on the scene. I think there is a statement from him in the discovery somewhere. I'm in discovery digging mode today lol.

And since I'm in discovery digging mode, I'll grab Lee's statement about KC being alone in the garage so we know exactly what he said. That should be pretty easy to find, and I'll post that too.

If anybody wants me to keep an eye out for anything else related to this while I'm digging, just holler.

 

[Leila]

BBM

Watching that video, it appears Yuri has his dates mixed. He says GA picked up the car from the towyard on the 16th, and LE towed the car to the forensics bay the next day, the 17th.

We know GA picked up the car on the 15th. The next day would be the 16th.

In Cindy's OCSO interview video, around 45:05, Yuri confronts CA for having said on TV that LE didn't tow the car for 2 days, when in fact, it was towed in less than 24 hours. Cindy concedes that this is true.

I agree that there is cause for concern regarding the first responding officers to the house, and when the car was inspected regarding the smell, and whether it was sealed or guarded until it was towed.

There are a few things missing that would help us know better how concerned we should be, such as the call notes from the 911 operator. We simply don't know right now whether Cindy's statement was passed on to the first responding officer.

What bothers me the most is Lee's statement that KC was allowed to go seemingly unsupervised into the garage with the car. That would concern me even if the car didn't smell like decomp. On the other hand, Lee could be lying, or LE could have been watching KC without Lee being aware of it.

The other thing I'm keeping in mind is that for some time, LE was under the impression that Caylee had been left with a nanny - not that KC had done anything to/with her. It was only after they investigated and found one lie after another that they began to look seriously at KC, and it is at that point, immediately, that Yuri thought of the smell in the car, and that was astute of him.

I haven't yet seen anything about sealing or guarding the car, but I have it in the back of my head that somebody said something about this somewhere along the line. I'm still poking around, and will post if I find anything on it.

BeanE

Thanks! I thought I remembered a confrontation between Yuri and Cindy over the length of time the car sat at the Anthony's and LE towing it to their impound yard. I just couldn't remember when that confrontation took place. But, I do remember Yuri being upset that Cindy's statement to the media made it look like the car sat there for days.

 

[BeanE]

Thanks! I thought I remembered a confrontation between Yuri and Cindy over the length of time the car sat at the Anthony's and LE towing it to their impound yard. I just couldn't remember when that confrontation took place. But, I do remember Yuri being upset that Cindy's statement to the media made it look like the car sat there for days.

I just watched the interview this morning. I can't remember which news site I was on but it was in the 2nd of 2 videos of Cindy's OCSO interview. About 3/4 of the way through the whole interview. And yep, it was a confrontation. Yuri was ticked off. Well, so was Cindy. lol.

 

[BeanE]

KC alone in the garage:

Lee's Depo

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0923/17540065.pdf

PDF page 47 - line 19

Lee:<snip> I was in the garage because they had separated my folks from my sister. I sat in the garage with my sister.

(As an aside, this is when/where the infamous 'two dead squirrels' story came into being.)

It seems to me that there is another place where an officer is asking Lee for more detail, and he says more specifically that he went to the garage, and KC was alone in the garage. I'll update this post with that info, but I think the above will suffice for now. I had researched this very early on, because my hair stood on end when I saw that she had been in the garage alone with the car.

 

[Tulessa]

KC alone in the garage:

Lee's Depo

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0923/17540065.pdf

PDF page 47 - line 19

Lee:<snip> I was in the garage because they had separated my folks from my sister. I sat in the garage with my sister.

(As an aside, this is when/where the infamous 'two dead squirrels' story came into being.)

It seems to me that there is another place where an officer is asking Lee for more detail, and he says more specifically that he went to the garage, and KC was alone in the garage. I'll update this post with that info, but I think the above will suffice for now. I had researched this very early on, because my hair stood on end when I saw that she had been in the garage alone with the car.

BBM. Didn't those get discussed in texts during the month of June, between Casey and Amy?