The Responsibilities of the University and Threat Assessment

[February]

From the Denver Post article:

"The university also has retained Denver attorneys Jane Mitchell and Richard Murray to represent Dr. Fenton.
"When university employees are involved in a legal process, we regularly retain counsel for them even when their actions are entirely appropriate so that they can have independent legal advice," O'Rourke told The Denver Post on Tuesday."

Read more: CU hires attorneys for officer, psychiatrist tied to Holmes - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...hiatrist-tied-holmes?refresh=no#ixzz22u8XmmQD

So, two attorneys for Dr. Fenton.

Both Murray and Mitchell work for Hall & Evans, LLC
Murray
http://www.hallevans.com/attorney_bio.cfm?AttorneysID=127&practiceId=85
Practice Areas
Civil & Commercial Litigation
Health Care
Insurance
Professional Liability
Mitchell
http://www.hallevans.com/attorney_bio.cfm?AttorneysID=132
Practice Areas
Health Care
Life, Accident and Health
Products Liability

 

[February]

Why are you in some office cave? you need to be on some standup comedy show. I'd come to see you you crack me up.

Now that we are in the intermission. I would not at all be surprised if he did NOT do this alone.


I do know a little too much....
I have heard stories from parents that their kid was so sold on the harm they would create if they speak that many did not speak till long after the trial was over. Some were lucky, and got out eventually because the parents had money to go through a lot of support required to get the brain functioning enough to help their own case.

Can I believe he did it alone. Yes
Can I believe there was an accomplice- in light of mixed reviews - YES

Hello Ma'am..i was multi-tasking earlier - working and thinking about this case lol ... got a little stressful job so a little laugh on the net helps a lot
I too enjoy your post a lot too specially when you want to sue everyone else and I'll do the same thing IMO..


and back on the case, I do believe he isn't alone here
I would like to know who owns the second gas mask first on the other far end side of the back building before i say he acted alone IMO...That second gas mask should be tested for finger prints or some other analysis like hair IMO..

 

[February]

That's what's so weird about this. I haven't seen any movie-goer videos before or during the shooting except that bouncy one we've all scene where someone with the backpack is holding open the door. Surely there were more? It was the Premiere. People were dressed up. Didn't they take pictures while waiting to get in? Where can we find them?

and IMO, this is why the media combined their efforts and hired a lawyer to represent them to request the release of other informations to the media since this crime was a "public crime" and the public has the right to know ..IMO..

 

[rollinginit]

An attorney who helped Castle Rock avoid a $30 million lawsuit in a case in which three children were murdered has been hired by the University of Colorado to represent a campus police officer connected to the Aurora theater shooting.

Denver attorney Thomas Rice made headlines in 2005 when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the mother of three slain children couldn't sue Castle Rock police for failing to enforce a restraining order against her estranged husband just hours before he killed the girls.

The Court ruled 7-2 that the police had no way of predicting that Simon Gonzales would kill the couple's children — even after a worried Jessica Gonzales called authorities seven times and visited with officers in person twice.

CU attorney Patrick O'Rourke acknowledged Tuesday that Rice had been hired by the university to represent a campus police officer.

"I think we are going to have a head-on collision about that," he said. "The defense will want to talk to the psychiatrist, and the university won't want her to talk."

Pozner said the defense attorneys "will be saying, 'We want to know what you saw and when you saw it,' " he said. "But being a witness is a far cry from being a defendant in a civil case. We are an ocean away from that. Mental instability, by its very definition, is unpredictable. It will be important for the defense to develop the CU witnesses who saw Holmes starting to spiral down into what appears to be schizophrenia."

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...es-attorneys-officer-psychiatrist-tied-holmes

 

[CARIIS]

You should know then that you must have a good reason to do it.

You cannot call just because someone is acting crazy.

For all we know she spoke to the police and they decided he wasn't a threat.

There is not enough information on this yet to demonize the woman.

Not how it works -- think army and rank and file stuff. If a qualified mental health practionior contacts LE , the police are not going there to evaluate they are going there to transport per professionials request. They will not NOT transport to hospial for futher eval by pros.

Conversly , lets say maritial doscord, a lay citizen calls 911 and says my x is acting nuts THEN LE will make a determination if the individual warrents transport.

It makes sense who is more qualified to acess mental illiness issues than trainined mental health folks

LE is only the taxi when the request for invol eval is intiated by clinican.

In the instance wherein it may be two people acting out "I will get you locked up" then law enforcement makes a judgement call same as in domestic violence.

But gernerally speaking LE will transport ,(At this point it is only for further eval by clinical team AT hospital) if call comes from credentialed person in the field.

 

[CARIIS]

I do know that.
I also know that unraveling is not instantaneous.
When you watch it happen and she had to see it,
He did not get to the point of killing in 5 weeks. NO. He was already pretty unraveled.
YES she would have been able to get him committed, I know it takes many months to get
From a good student to a mess, and one who had killing on his mind had to leave a trail especially with a trained Dr. But we did read somewhere that she was not great at record keeping. (convenient I think)

YES she would have been able to get him committed

Concur he could have been evaluated for 72 hours and I am confident that at that point he would have met criteria to be held past that condisdering what we know now notebook/ event itself/apt/ behavior at gun stores /application for gun range events /

obviously the data we do have from several places , and evidently his doc and god knows who else (faculity/peers) he had been spirraling out for some time, people in different settings, on different dates, with different relationships with him all had uneasy unsettling "vibes" in being near him.

We most certainly can say with confidance that his doc HAD very complelling info about her concerns about his lethality , and certainly time has indicated that she was right on target

my issue with her why she did not just get him tranported for futher eval

 

[CARIIS]

RE: quick access cut off
Fishy still. If you look at it as adults , in grad school, and a student who is not behaving strangely, shoots out a withdrawal email , the facility would want to sit talk rectify remedy etc.

The notion that Fenton had concerns, started something, he fires off an email and on the day the cut his card off --- sounds much more like a security issues (afraid of him)

Let’s say he went off on school then admin liability intense --a reporter: you are telling us that one of your docs had concerns about his being threatening, and you do not do everything you could do to limit access

the RUSH to cut off his key card is telling it indicated on admins part a tremendous concern about his lethality........................not SOP , which by the way the date 10 the is a SUNDAY!

RE Role of delusion:
The fact that none of this happened ties into his delusional stuff, as it relates to July 20 open of movie - he was certainly well armed before July 20 . He waited weeks............

RE DOCTOR
When she went to the cop she should have dialed 911 and get an ambulance too.

YEP! That simple really

RE when university employees are involved in a legal process, we regularly retain counsel for them even when their actions are entirely appropriate so that they can have independent legal advice," O'Rourke told The Denver Post on Tuesday."
Shoot (pardon pun) this sounds like an up and coming congressman!

when their actions are entirely appropriate............... so that they can have independent legal advice,

BARF

I don’t see in any link or any witnesses even describing what he was wearing...
All that was reported was male with red hair sat in front got phone call and used exit to continue with the alleged call...................


Re His mission wasn't to end it right there at the movie theater," McGhee says. "There was a part B to this attack."
Part B was the booby-trapped apartment

OR he had hoped (Norway) the apt would end up being a diversion, I think his time in the theatre had been cut short by the gun jamming, but if admin had done more maybe his time frame would have gotten altered............

I haven't seen any movie-goer videos before or during
I kind think that in the high school LE told me all they are prohibited from posting anything they taped.

 

[CARIIS]

Hello Ma'am..i was multi-tasking earlier - working and thinking about this case lol ... got a little stressful job so a little laugh on the net helps a lot
I too enjoy your post a lot too specially when you want to sue everyone else and I'll do the same thing IMO..


and back on the case, I do believe he isn't alone here
I would like to know who owns the second gas mask first on the other far end side of the back building before i say he acted alone IMO...That second gas mask should be tested for finger prints or some other analysis like hair IMO..

It was a hectic scene are we sure there were two or was one moved when they carried the bleeding child from the back?

 

[songline]

From what I understand the theater is well equipped with multiple security cameras (inside and outside)Strange that absolutely no one in the theater or lobby before the film noticed a 6'3" guy with buggy eyes and the most awful looking "red" hair in Aurora...


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

You are right a tall man would stand out in that vedio...

 

[songline]

YES she would have been able to get him committed

Concur he could have been evaluated for 72 hours and I am confident that at that point he would have met criteria to be held past that condisdering what we know now notebook/ event itself/apt/ behavior at gun stores /application for gun range events /

obviously the data we do have from several places , and evidently his doc and god knows who else (faculity/peers) he had been spirraling out for some time, people in different settings, on different dates, with different relationships with him all had uneasy unsettling "vibes" in being near him.

We most certainly can say with confidance that his doc HAD very complelling info about her concerns about his lethality , and certainly time has indicated that she was right on target

my issue with her why she did not just get him tranported for futher eval

I see it this way too.

I am tired of any type of enabling.
The school specialized in the mind.
WTF did they do there? Just bank the grants?

 

[newsleuther]

I see it this way too.

I am tired of any type of enabling.
The school specialized in the mind.
WTF did they do there? Just bank the grants?

They've made some pretty significant strides and research in the field of neurobiology, that's what they do there.

 

[HastingsChi]

Both Murray and Mitchell work for Hall & Evans, LLC

I wouldn't call myself a fan but definitely enjoy and appreciate Hall & Evans many success including "Private Eyes", "Rich Girl" and "Maneater". Oh wait, that's Hall & Oates I'm thinking of; who knew Chief Oates could sing...

 

[songline]

They've made some pretty significant strides and research in the field of neurobiology, that's what they do there.

I have not seen any links/ write-ups to tell me they have made any significant anything...

Not all schools are significant.


This one has been hiding much.... must have a reason.
NOP - I do not have a sense that everything is on the up'n up.

 

[Liz]

From the Denver Post article:

"The university also has retained Denver attorneys Jane Mitchell and Richard Murray to represent Dr. Fenton.
"When university employees are involved in a legal process, we regularly retain counsel for them even when their actions are entirely appropriate so that they can have independent legal advice," O'Rourke told The Denver Post on Tuesday."

Read more: CU hires attorneys for officer, psychiatrist tied to Holmes - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...hiatrist-tied-holmes?refresh=no#ixzz22u8XmmQD

So, two attorneys for Dr. Fenton.

Thanks for this information, Nora.

I actually (thought I) heard the ABC correspondent, Mark Greenblatt, on Nightline Monday night, state that neither of Fenton's two new attorneys were willing to speak; and did a double-take. Went back through the video and tried to find it, with no luck. Started wondering if I had imagined it. :waitasec:

Yesterday morning, I heard on one of the all news stations, the possibility had risen that Dr. Fenton's concerns were expressed to the university, but not acted upon. No link, as I haven't looked. Just hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt.

The first video in this ABC News link does allude to what I heard yesterday morning, about the possibility that the university dropped the ball (as vs Dr. Fenton).

JMO MOO and all that jazz

 

[newsleuther]

I have not seen any links/ write-ups to tell me they have made any significant anything...

Not all schools are significant.


This one has been hiding much.... must have a reason.
NOP - I do not have a sense that everything is on the up'n up.

Prior to the lockdown of info I found a listing of quite a few advancements in medicine/research performed by them.

They are a top notch grad school. Crappy grad schools don't get the funding and grants they did.

I will try to find the list again.

 

[Liz]

John Ingold‏@john_ingold

A CU attorney turned over 100 pages of documents to the judge today. The judge will hold onto those until a hearing on the debate Aug. 23.

2:00 PM (MDT) - 16 Aug 12via Twitter for Android

https://twitter.com/john_ingold/status/236190755297832960

 

[rollinginit]

Here's some stuff that was released about the BETA team. JH's information IS NOT included b/c of the gag order.

BETA team meeting notes reveal past cases of concern, including a student who threatened to stab a teacher in the eye, another student who was suffering with hallucinations and a student who made a gun gesture to their head.

The documents also contain guidelines on how the BETA team should categorize students based on risk and the appropriate response for each category. There are four categories of risk: no risk, moderate, high and imminent risk.

The documents show the BETA team, made of up counselors and police, handled 306 cases since 2008 throughout the university's system.

http://www.9news.com/news/article/2...rist-very-active?odyssey=tab|topnews|bc|large

 

[Liz]

Lawyers have been hired to represent employees of the Community Standards and Wellness department; employees in the Office of the Dean of Students; and for employees and psychiatrists within Student Mental Health Services.

Source: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31377228/detail.html

 

[February]

Lawyers have been hired to represent employees of the Community Standards and Wellness department; employees in the Office of the Dean of Students; and for employees and psychiatrists within Student Mental Health Services.

Source: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31377228/detail.html

Thanks Liz

Multiple lawyers - multiple cases - will make the case longer
Victims have 2 years from July 20 to file a lawsuit - IMO
Can some lawyers confirm this? please see link and info below :

Under a legal rule known as the "statute of limitations," any lawsuit arising from an accident or injury must be filed within a certain time limit or the injured person's legal claim will be barred and his or her right to sue will be lost forever. Every state has enacted its own statute of limitations, requiring any personal injury suit be filed in court within a set time after the incident or injury
Time Limits to Bring a Case: The "Statute of Limitations"
Colorado 2 years Colo. Rev. Stat. Sec. 13-80-102
http://injury.findlaw.com/accident-...-bring-a-case-the-statute-of-limitations.html

 

[HastingsChi]

Lawyers have been hired to represent employees of the Community Standards and Wellness department; employees in the Office of the Dean of Students; and for employees and psychiatrists within Student Mental Health Services.

Source: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31377228/detail.html

For some university staff members, those very loosely connected to Holmes', this is a really good thing. For others, the university employees more connected to Holmes, they'd be foolish to accept university representation and wise to obtain private counsel to completely avoid being thrown under the bus by the university.