The Rest of the Story...

[Glow]

I was watching this on another thread while you were posting the link!

I agree with you that while unrelated, it is definitely part of the bigger story. I wrote a few posts back about women having always been used as currency since the beginning of time. I think we have not gained much ground in the battle to change that. The Arabic/Muslim cultural belief of early marriage in your link is just one example. Another is the African custom of female circumcision. Even in America, the birth place of feminism, we still jail the prostitute and let the man go free. There is a lot that needs to change isnt there?

 

[SewingDeb]

Definitely.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

So I have been thinking lately about arranged marriages. It seems that the FLDS has a lot of "arranged marriages". Why is it when those women are married, we say the men are raping them. Yet we don't openly protest the arranged marriages of what I'd imagine is millions of women throughout the world. I do not see much difference.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Adding to my question, which women within the FLDS community are we concerned about being raped? Is it only minors because they can't consent? What about the women over 18 that are spiritually married to someone in an arranged marriage? What about the women over 18 that are legally married to someone in an arranged marriage? I hear so much outrage about the minors, but not about adult women being raped? Is that because a crime isn't punishable if the women don't come forward?

 

[SewingDeb]

Rainbows, I think that is right. Unless the adult women came forward to make a claim to be raped by their "husband", no one would prosecute. You know how likely that is to happen, don't you.

The mnor girls are not allowed to give consent in this country so that is automatically rape if there is more than a certain age difference.

As for arranged marriages elsewhere in the world, I personally feel that there is very little I can do about that. It's enough worrying about what goes on right here. You would think a celebrity might take it on as a cause though.

 

[Glow]

Wow those are some very deep thoughts and incredibly good questions.

You may not like my answers, or maybe you will, who knows?

I think all of us agree that children should not be handed over to old men for sex - good grief that seems like a no brainer!

I think all of our hearts go out to women who are trapped in abusive relationships with no options.

The situation with the FLDS is repeated all over the world (as you noted Rainbow) and is also being repeated all over America (just under different guises and scenarios) and people stay fairly calm about it.

The outrage that this case generated has been extremely interesting. I think it is because this case is really about something else IN ADDITION to your basic "standard" child/women abuse cases.

 

[SewingDeb]

What is that something else you keep referring to, Glow?

 

[faw720]

Even in America, the birth place of feminism, we still jail the prostitute and let the man go free. There is a lot that needs to change isnt there?

It's hard to believe & I don't think we think about it very much, but in America, women didn't even have the right to vote until 1920. That's 144 years between 1776 & 1920. Interestingly, slavery was only outlawed in 1865, 144 years ago. The human rights part of civilization moves at a snail's pace & that is TERRIBLE.

 

[Glow]

It's hard to believe & I don't think we think about it very much, but in America, women didn't even have the right to vote until 1920. That's 144 years between 1776 & 1920. Interestingly, slavery was only outlawed in 1865, 144 years ago. The human rights part of civilization moves at a snail's pace & that is TERRIBLE.

Great statistics faw!

I agree - I know I dont think about it as much as I should. Human rights & civil rights is my current fascination.

 

[Glow]

What is that something else you keep referring to, Glow?

I think it is a combination of things.

Polygamy - That is a concept that is not approved of by the mainstream. Some would argue with good reason. Why create all the extra children that polygamy by design does? What about financial issues for society? What about the "Lost Boys"" etc.

Feminism - We Mainstream girls have been taught in big way that we can have it all. Careers, families, daycare, abortions, lovers, divorces, new mates, and on and on. Even our own grandmothers and mothers didn't believe that. It is a relatively new phenomenon. And I am NOT picking on feminists! I am a former feminist myself and respect the good that has come from it while I also can admit the bad.


Fascism - Using the definition "Where the good of the individual is second to the good of the group as defined by the state" I think that as a nation we are being subtly steered more and more in that direction. We seem to be turning more and more of our personal decision making over to the government and government appointed groups. Then, when the government gets it wrong we run shrieking to them to fix it. Very reminiscent of how a small child views its parent. Very unlike the way this country was set up to run in the first place.

Religion - The balancing act between freedom of religion and the states right to intervene is constantly being challenged and tested. The crux of the matter is who gets to decide what is too much and when? Some people again, want to hand ALL of that decision making over to the state. Some posters on this thread have said that they unequivocally feel that is best. The irony is that kind of totalitarianism is what people in other countries fight to get out from under! And we sit here saying we WANT that? What??? :waitasec:

The Media - I think the media has become a "news " of sorts in that it try's to figure out what will "sell" and go in that direction. Another thing is that all the mainstream media outlets are owned by a hand full of very powerful people and we are not going to hear and see what they don't approve of. Thank heavens for the Internet where we get to see and hear whatever we go looking for.

Human nature - It is just "in us" to not like people that look and act different. We humans are social beings and we like to cluster in groups and exhibit homogenous behavior. Anyone who does not do that appears as a threat to the group. Ask any black person you know and they can explain this phenomenon to you, having lived it personally. I'm sure Asian people could be equally eloquent on the topic if we were living back when Pearl Harbor got bombed. If you were an American born in this country and you looked Asian- not even Japanese - just Asian, you went into the interment camps. Unless you were a young man and wanted out to go fight in the war...as a U.S. soldier.
(sarcasm intended)

I could go on and on listing individuals and groups and behaviors but you get the point. All the references to the FLDS women's dress and speech is all part of this. I bet if a couple of FLDS women had jumped just one of the 911 terrorists and managed to stop one plane from going down, we would call them "quaint". As it is we have regrettably just dismissed them as brainwashed and "odd". Which they definitely are not - if you go read and let them speak in their own words.

 

[SewingDeb]

The polygamy doesn't bother me if it is between consenting adults and they choose their own mates (and the earlier spouses are in agreement).

Their dress doesn't bother me.

Their religion doesn't bother me except where the women and children have no choice in anything.

They are brainwashed and odd...lol. That's not a crime but leads to abuse.

 

[Glow]

The Ranch is reporting that Dress.com is a huge success. The Mother’s at the Ranch and around the State have all they can do to sew fast enough to keep up with the orders that are pouring in. That support goes a long way to help support those children who are still “Out in the field”.


Many of the women are either teachers or in the health field. When they can, they work while other Mother’s tend to their children. The Father’s have all gone to work in the private sector and pool their monies for the common good as they’ve always done. Nobody’s rich, but nobody’s starving. Much to the chagrin of CPS, nobody’s on welfare either.



http://www.flds.ws/category/bruce-perry/

 

[Ciara]

I bet the orders are coming from other FLDS around the country or similar Religions. No accounting for taste I guess:crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[Glow]

I guess!

I wonder if some are being ordered for all the made for TV movies that will be upcoming

 

[Ciara]

Probably Glow

I like that they have modesty though.....its just the style that I dont like really but then, I am not the one who has to wear it

 

[Glow]

What is most impressive to me is the great physical fitness of these women. They still look good, even in those dresses!

Here is more what I would look like in one~
(this picture is actually Lisa Bonet. It comes up when you google FLDS dresses)

 

[Glow]

Friday, July 11, 2008
Top Ten Signs You Are A Victim of Religious Persecution

10. When people talk about where THEY live it is a four-plex, apartment building or ranch. When they talk about the four-plex, apartment or ranch YOU live at, it is a compound.

9. Your religion is constantly referred to as a cult, or a sect.

8. The state decides how your children are to worship by taking away their religious documents and scriptures.

7. When you move to a state, laws are changed specifically to target your religion.

6. The only adults in your state NOT allowed to MARRY at 14 or 16 years old are the members of your congregation.

5. Your religion cannot teach certain behaviors lead to damnation, but all other religions can.

4. The state accepts birth certificates as proof of age for everyone, except those practicing your religion.

3. You can't have your children back unless you denounce your religion, and take classes learning how to think like them.

2. You have to prove to the State you can raise children, when you have been raising them just fine.

1. The children of your religion are hauled away in buses displaying the name of another church.


http://fldsview.blogspot.com

 

[Truly]

What is most impressive to me is the great physical fitness of these women. They still look good, even in those dresses!

Here is more what I would look like in one~
(this picture is actually Lisa Bonet. It comes up when you google FLDS dresses)

LOL!!!

You can't see the difference between the 'faux retro-hippie-love-child' costume in your photo...

...and the attire which the FLDS requires all women and girls to wear, which screams, 'I am one of the nameless, faceless children who are being sexually abused by my father's cult'?

Did you sleep through the last four decades, Rip Van Winkle?

OMG! That made my day! LOL!!!

 

[Glow]

Here is a comment posted at the link in my last post

11. The governor, who wants to vaccinate everyone in the state for HPV, tells you you are not welcome here because YOU are the one who is immoral.


https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5458658945502484148&postID=6400098299522934923&isPopup=true

 

[Truly]

Well, yeah. If anyone thinks it is ok for a cult to forcibly rape every child in their household, then of course they are not welcome anywhere.

You got a problem with that?

I heard there is a bridge they are all hiding under in Florida, but the people there do not welcome them, either. The decent people in this country want to protect all of our children from these nasty pedophiles.

Must be tough to be a child rapist. Boo Fricken Hoo. :razz: