The Rest of the Story...

So while the ever mindful State of Texas diligently keeps track of underaged FLDS births, I was curious to see how this stacks up with the general population....

How Often Does a Teenager in Texas Get Pregnant?

Every 10 minutes, a teen in Texas gets pregnant.

Every 10 hours, a 14-year-old teen gets pregnant.

Every 3 hours, a 15-year-old teen gets pregnant.

Every 1.5 hours, a 16-year-old teen gets pregnant.

Every 52 minutes, a 17-year-old-teen gets pregnant.

Every 35 minutes, an 18-year-old teen gets pregnant.

Every 28 minutes, a 19-year-old teen gets pregnant.


What are the Outcomes?

Every 10 minutes a teen gives birth.

Every 48 minutes a teen has an abortion

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/famplan/tpp.shtm


hmmm...
 
Questions & Info -

Warren Jeffs- already in jail, and DA Abbott says he wants him extradited to Texas.

The charges on which he has already been convicted were more indirect. His participation was in authorizing the marriage of an under aged girl to a 19 yr old man.

If Texas can prove the allegation of sexual assault of a child IN the state of Texas, would that be sufficient grounds for expedition?

This current charge is no doubt connected to the cheek swabbing incident involving Veda Keate recently.

She is 19 and has a two year old daughter. Texas authorities believe the child was fathered by Jeffs when she was under the legal age of consent - which is 16 for a legal marriage and 17 for sexual contact when there is an age difference of three years or less.

Jeffs is accused of a sexual assault occurring in Jan of 2005.

The law changed in Texas in - September of 2005. So how does that apply?



Leroy Jessop, 33 — Sexual Assault of a Child and Felony Bigamy

Why is he the only one charged with Bigamy? If this was a "spiritual" marriage only - can the State bring bigamy charges?

Raymond Jessop, 36 — Sexual Assault of a Child

This may not be about Teresa Jeffs, but lets assume for the moment that it is....

She was checked by a gynecologist and found to have an intact hymen. She has not had sexual intercourse. So what did her sexual assault consist of?

She also turned 17 this weekend. Does this have any affect on this case?

Allan Keate, 56 — Sexual Assault of a Child

Merilyn Barrow is 18. Her son is 1- 1/2, that indicates that Barrow was underage when he was born and may lead to criminal charges once the father is identified. Allen is the alleged father.

Merilyn gave birth to her son Robert on Dec. 30, 2006, a week before she turned 17.


Michael Emack, 57 — Sexual Assault of a Child - Don't know anything about this one.

And Barlow on 3 misdemeanors. He is the Doctor.
 
As far as Barlow and the 3 misdemeanors....

One of TX arguments is that the FLDS create a 'pervasive climate of abuse.' Is there another institution that might compare?
Yes.
Across the nation Planned Parenthood gets away with violating laws on mandatory reporting DAILY.
They have been caught in more than one sting actually counseling girls they believed to be as young as 13 on how to lie so as to avoid getting their adult abuser/boyfriends into trouble. They seldom, if ever, report as required by law when under-aged girls come into their offices and clinics for abortions- proving they have been abused by state law. And does Texas care?

I don't think so. THAT pervasive climate of abuse has the approval of the state- they even get taxpayer funding to carry on their activities of helping adult men hide the evidence of their crimes.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=10775661&postID=8855480955698431820
 
Arizona judge may remand charges against polygamous leader
The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 07/29/2008 01:40:29 PM MDT

Posted: 1:38 PM- KINGMAN, Ariz. - An Arizona judge has scheduled an Aug. 22 hearing to decide whether four remaining charges against polygamist leader Warren Jeffs will be sent back to a grand jury for reconsideration.
The charges stem from the arranged marriages of two teenage girls and their older male relatives.
Defense attorney Mike Piccarreta is arguing that Jeffs was denied a fair, impartial and unbiased grand jury, and that the prosecution presented false or misleading evidence to the grand jury.
Jeffs originally faced 10 charges in Arizona.
Four of them were dropped at the request of the defense because Arizona's incest law doesn't apply to Jeffs' cases. Two of them were dropped at the request of the prosecution because the alleged victim refused to testify.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10033842
 
Tuesday, July 29, 2008
Details continue to trickle out, Texas is NOT so sure.
The Deseret News;



"A Bishop's Record seized by law enforcement and entered into court evidence in a San Angelo court said Allan Keate had a 17-year-old wife, and may have fathered an underage child with her. (Michael George) Emack, according to the same records, has a 19-year-old wife and had a 1 1/2-year-old son with her."

Age of Consent in Texas after 2005, is 17. They are not that confident yet, in their case. A 19 year old wife with a one and a half year old son was impregnated two years and three months ago. How old a 19 year old are we talking here? 19 years and 2 months? Saying that Allan Keate may have fathered and "underage child" with her (strange phrasing) doesn't speak of great confidence either.

Teresa Jeffs swears she is a virgin from what I've heard, that makes her "spiritual marriage" a betrothal and not a consumated relationship. The Doctor is charged with failure to report. That's four of the five. As I said, the charge of Bigamy against Merrill Jessop indicates the only charge that Texas has confidence in. Sorry to keep repeating myself but the evidence keeps stacking up, bit by bit. They would have charged the three other men with Bigamy if they thought the charges were good enough to stick. Of course, all of this may change.

http://hughmcbryde.blogspot.com/
 
Leroy Jessop, 33 — Sexual Assault of a Child and Felony Bigamy

Why is he the only one charged with Bigamy? If this was a "spiritual" marriage only - can the State bring bigamy charges?

I am guessing that he is charged with bigamy because Texas recognizes common law marriage. The last I knew there were only 2 requirements to constitute a common law marriage. (1)The couple must live together X amount of time & (2) must also represent themselves as man & wife. Under Texas law they are then considered as legally married as someone whose marriage was performed by the Pope. A divorce is legally required to disolve the union. Of course, most people don't know this & in theory Texas could have thousands of bigamist, but there's never been any push to enforce this. I'm also guessing that Texas has found some evidence such as a driver's license( 2 women with driver's license in the name of Mrs.Leroy Jessop), car title(2 women on the title listed as Mrs. Leroy (Joann) Jessop & Mrs. Leroy (Jean) Jessop, or other public record where Leroy Jessop has multiple wives that can be officially tied to him. I'm sure Texas is digging into literally everything that could possibly support a bigamy charge & they'll probably succeed in charging others in the FLDS/
 
Well that makes sense faw.

I agree that we will see more bigamy charges to follow.

Bigamy is as you said probably more prevelent than we know, but without someone actively looking for it, not talked about much.

As for the under age marrying, for thinking individuals intent of the law should come in to play.

Prior to 2005, the law was written in a way intended to stop predatory behavior of adult men, but to leave the actual "marriage" decisions up to the parents and the couple involved.

The intent of the law AFTER 2005 was clearly to stop FLDS from practicing polygamy or from marrying below aged 16.
 
There is some very disturbing evidence that Judge Walthers and CPS head counsel Charles Childress did have a private meeting without the presence of the AALs for the FLDS. The writer (he is a lawyer) at the link below has an inside contact, and he asked that contact why exhibit A was removed from the ruling before it was sent out to opposing counsel. Here's the response:


A1: The judge removed the exhibit, after it [the motion?] was presented to her for signature. The CPS lead attorney indicated that attorneys had received a copy of the attachment. He also informed the court, after the confusion arose of “no attachment,” that he would send out a letter explaining the court’s reason for removing the exhibit.


The motion was physically filed on Thursday, but wasn't e-filed until late Friday afternoon. The blog writer asked about that and was told:

A2: The motion was filed at approximately 11:00 am on the 21st in person and was walked directly up to the Judge for her consideration. The motion and signed order was not returned to the clerk until the following day . . .


There's more at his site- this is pretty disturbing:

I believe it was walked up by Mr. Childress. Although I was not present, I understand that the exhibit was detached during the course of the judge reviewing the motion, exhibit and order, prior to signature.


Furthermore, Childress has promised to draft a letter to the opposing counsels to explain the Judge's reasoning for removing exhibit A.

The question to ask is how Childress would be privy to such information if he hadn't had an ex parte meeting with Judge Walthers. He asks some other excellent questions as well-

http://iperceive.net/
 
Bigamy is as you said probably more prevelent than we know, but without someone actively looking for it, not talked about much.

Well the thing is, with the Texas common law, many people here are actually legally married & don't even realize it. When you have people living together & then after a time, moving on to other partners the possibility for bigamy is great.
 
In looking at information on the women who testified before the Grand Jury, I came across this picture of Sarah Barlow Draper.

She was originally judged by CPS as being an under aged teen mother. She is 37.

I am not CPS "trained" but not for one minute would I have gauged this women as being a teenager.





5588155.jpg
 
Well the thing is, with the Texas common law, many people here are actually legally married & don't even realize it. When you have people living together & then after a time, moving on to other partners the possibility for bigamy is great.


Wouldnt if be a hoot if the state of Texas would take one week and just a fraction of the money they have spent trying to zero in on the FLDS and look at the mainstream populations bigamists?

That will never happen of course, but just thinking about it is smile inducing! :crazy:
 
It is incorrect to say that religious persecution plays no role here-

The truth is, it was just fine for more than a hundred years for 14 year old Texas Baptist girls to get married with parental consent, but apparently immoral for 14 year old girls amongst the FLDS membership to get similarly married.

Even today, if local Baptist parents in the Texas Hill Country asked for a court to approve the marriage of their 14 year old daughter, they would get that order with very little bother. But if a set of FLDS parents asked for a similar order, they would be put through a wringer by the judge, and might not get the order at all, not even if the reasons were to be the same for the Baptists.

It is incorrect to say that polygamy plays no part in peoples thinking -

Some have heard of the Short Creek Raid. It has been compared to the YFZ raid recently. The concern of the "people" when the Short Creek Raid occurred was over the "so called" welfare of the children living in a polygamous arrangement.

Today 55 years later, with divorce and single parent homes being the norm, gay marriage gaining increasing acceptance among mainstream society, it is harder for us to cast the first stone at polygamous families without looking completely ridiculous. So now we say its not the polygamy OR the religion.

So what is it really about?

Today, what we do instead, is we say it is about the children. We don't care if our own mainstream statistics are worse than theirs as far as teen pregnancy, sexual abuse of children or education.

We don't care that when using scientifically measurable indicators of what constitutes insuring a happy life (if such a thing is indeed measurable) that they have the edge over us.

No. We blindly insist that our way is better. Much better for the FLDS teen girls to be "rescued" by us and if they are not sexually abused in foster care then they can become our next pop culture laden young women seeking true love on Face Book or even better they can attend some "party campus" masquerading as a higher education institute! http://www.princetonreview.com/schoollist.aspx?type=r&id=737&uidbadge= Then these girls can settle down with a man near their own age who will abuse them or cheat on them, or for whatever other reason simply move on, leaving them with their statistical 2.2 children towing in their wake.

Then they can go on the state dole until and unless they can find another man to marry and then they along with their children will be "reassigned" to this man (by the fatherly government entity known as whatever state they apply for a marriage license in) and if that marriage doesn't work out (statistics say odds are high it wont) they can repeat the process after adding another child or so!

Yes, if we could just rescue these teens from their "narrow" life and open them up to the unlimited excitement and "culture" and possibilities that "we" have to offer them - life would be so much better!

Instead, there they sit. They are condemned to living a life that they see as one of purpose. They are emotionally stable and are part of a loving supportive female network. They are financially secure and physically fit. They look 10 to 20 years younger than their mainstream counterparts. They are healthy, focused and content.

Until they met us, they were happy. And they did all of this without mood altering little happy pills OR Oprah and the other self help gurus that we use to aid us, as we stagger along on our own fulfilling debt laden paths.

Maybe in addition to hating them because they are different - we are a little jealous. Just by living their lives without the need for pills or booze to get through the day - they are different.

Being so thin and young looking with nary a gym membership or spa around must mean they are crazy.

And to want to have five children or ten or more, that they want to raise themselves instead of dropping them off at a perfectly good daycare? Insane.

I think on some deep primal level these women threaten us.

I mean, how dare they not live like us?

Who do they think they are?
 
I have wondered for some time about the absolute venom that drips from some womens lips about the women of FLDS. I understand it concerning the men. But the women?

They seem to only have two choices in the average mainstream womans mind. They can be a victim OR they can be a co conspirator.

That's it!

Really? Has the world become that black and white for us? Are we really that intolerant about concepts such as freedom of choice and lifestyle? Does a young woman in America have to follow the rigid mainstream path in order for us to feel she is "free". Free of what exactly?

Why is it that to marry young and devote your life to your children and home has become such a horrifying fate?

Where exactly ARE all those compelling statistics that marrying older and having fewer children is the one and only path to happiness? Could somebody please point them out to me? Because when I go looking, what I find is just the opposite.

The feminist movement told us we were unhappy and unfulfilled without freedom of choice in our careers, and our sexual lives. So many career ladders climbed tons of birth control pills swallowed and millions of aborted babies and STD's later - where are we?

I spoke with a friend yesterday. She is a 67 year old card carrying member of the feminist movement. She was mourning over the plight of her one and only child, Alison, who is the light of her life.

Seems in spite of moms best hearted attempts at raising this daughter single handedly and giving her all the options that any mother could, the 30 something yr old daughter wants to ditch her townhouse, her 6 figure salaried job and dreams of a little house in the country........ with a man.........and children..........and a garden.

But she cant sell the expensive town house in the city in todays market. And she cant quit the high paying, high stress job where her boss is a belligerent and belittling jerk because then how would she pay for the townhouse?

In addition, her best friend, also in her 30's has bilateral breast cancer. Drs say it is partially genetic and heavily influenced by the fact that she has been on BC pills since she was 15. She is having both breasts removed.

My friends daughter is stressed and miserable. She feels trapped with no way out.

Kind of like how some have described the FLDS women.

The fact that Alison is trapped in a cage that is gilded rather than the plain wooden cage of an FLDS woman does not make it any less of a cage.


When people have fewer choices they tend to be happier
(link posted earlier in this thread)


Women can even have better health from becoming pregnant. Pregnancy is a cancer fighter, especially if women conceive under the age of 20.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/prevention/breast/Patient/page3#Keypoint13


The truth is if a woman or a girl wants to opt out of the FLDS culture she can.

She can even write a book about it and sign off on the movie rights. Now that's having options!
 
Hi Glow!

Just popping in to say hi and to thank you for continuing to post about this fascinating story.

My love and respect to you always,

South!
 
I just want to second what SCM said. I dont comment so much as I disagree with your views on the subject Glow but I read all the posts you put here and appreciate all the links:)
 
Hi Glow!

Just popping in to say hi and to thank you for continuing to post about this fascinating story.

My love and respect to you always,

South!

I just want to second what SCM said. I dont comment so much as I disagree with your views on the subject Glow but I read all the posts you put here and appreciate all the links:)

Thanks South & Ciara :blowkiss:

Ciara, you can feel free to comment. I know that you dont agree with me and I respect that. :)

If anyone had ever told me I would find myself in the position of defending a radical little band of religious zealots - I would have laughed at them.

People who know me in real life are laughing (affectionately I think ) at me because they know that I:

- don't personally support the concept of organized religion

- have always been an ardent supporter of abused women & children

- don't really take a great interest in most things political

so my interest in this topic has caught everyone around me by surprise - including myself.
 
Someone has asked me to please clarify a statement I made.

In a post from yesterday I said-


The truth is if a woman or a girl wants to opt out of the FLDS culture she can.

She can even write a book about it and sign off on the movie rights. Now that's having options!


I wrote that because Carolyn Jessops book has been optioned for its movie rights with Kathryn Heigl.

So no financial worries for Carolyn ever again!

heres the link
http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/archives/2008_06_01_archive.htm

Thanks to the poster who pointed out the obscurity of that statement so that I could correct it.
 
I guess Flora wants in on the action too.


Friday, August 01, 2008
Church of Lies: Flora writes a book

Flora Jessop, with help from Paul T. Brown, is at work on a book to be released in January. Its title:

''Church of Lies: How Flora Jessop Escaped the Slavery and Sexual Abuse of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints and Dedicated Her Life to the Continuing Rescue and Successful Liberation of Women and Children from this Notorious Sect.''

Whew. That is a mouthful.

Here is the preface from the book, which is being published by Jossey-Bass:

''My name is Flora Jessop. I've been called apostate, vigilante, and crazy 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, and maybe I am. But some people call me a hero, and I'd like to think they're right too. If I am a hero, maybe it's because every time I can play a part in saving a child or a woman from a life of servitude and degradation, I'm saving a little piece of me, too.

I was one of twenty-eight children born to my dad and his three wives. Indoctrinated to believe that the outside world was evil, and that I resided among the righteous, I was destined to marry a man chosen for me by the Prophet. I would then live in harmony with my sister-wives, bear many children, and obey and serve my future husband in this life and throughout eternity. But my innocence didn't last long. While still a child, I understood that the church of the righteous was nothing but a church of lies.

When I was eight years old my father sexually molested me for the first time, raping me when I was twelve. I tried to kill myself. Beaten, molested, taunted, and abused by family members alleging they only wanted to save my soul became a daily routine, I ran from this abuse more than once in my early teens, even attempting to cross the desert on foot. My family hunted me down. I thought government agencies would provide me safety if I reported my father. Instead, police and social services colluded with the FLDS to return me to my family and I ended up back inside polygamy, right where I started.''

Flora goes on from there to tell the dramatic true story of how she ultimately escaped and has been fighting against frustrating obstacles with hard fought successes in rescuing women and children from the FLDS. It's a story you can't put down.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/
 
I dont think there is anyone at all who feels that Flora has an ounce of credibility anymore - judging by all the silence when her name comes up.

Even the Senate hearings preferred the more sane sounding Carolyn Jessop over Flora.

For any who havent heard the truth about Flora, here is the rest of her story...


Quotes from folks OUTSIDE the FLDS-

"The information Flora's putting out that there's a mass exodus, it just isn't happening," said Bob Curran, director of Help the Child Brides, a St. George-based anti-polygamy group. "We're trying to lower the rhetoric and the temperature. We know of no more runaways. This is just hurting us."
Tapestry Against Polygamy leaders said they also are concerned that the story is nothing but a rumor."

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,590037547,00.html

~

"One reason I have doubts about Flora Jessop's reliability as a witness against FLDS is that she was so much younger than many others when she left- a 16 year old would just not have been privy to all the 'inside' information nor would she have been particularly good at assessing it. She also left a very long time ago- the inner culture changes. And she tells stories that aren't supported by any evidence. She has been one who has spoken of stockpiles of weapons and guns and armed body guards, but the entire history of this group has been non-violent."

http://heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/search?q=flora


~


"It's obvious that Flora's credibility is questionable at this point. But that hasn't dampened the mainstream media's willingness to continue facilitating her propaganda campaign against the FLDS." Flora is a publicity-hungry "fanatic" whose "demands to have control over someone else's children are becoming eerily similar to the dictatorial attitude of her sworn nemesis, Warren Jeffs." She is "misguided and devious."

-The Phoenix New Times

~


"She said the “compounds” aren't like homes in that they are fortified, built with thick walls. “They are very much armed. They have many, many weapons," she warned, and even went so far as to say that Warren Jeffs is “David Koresh, Jim Jones, and 9-11 all wrapped up in one nice little package. These guys are very dangerous."

It is now evident who is the more dangerous—Flora. These views of Doran’s trusted informant explain why he called in such a dramatic show of law enforcement with extensive firepower and militant might. With SWAT-team methods they crashed through doors and entered into homes with machine guns raised in an invasion so large and with so much might that it cost Texas $5.3 million to carry out. But what kind of resistance did they encounter? Was it Flora’s forewarned apocalyptic bloodbath? No, they encountered nothing more than shocked adults and scared crying children. Where were all of Flora’s promised weapons? Once again we see why Flora Jessop cannot be believed. Truth is as elusive in her life as were the purported weapons—they did not exist whatsoever."

http://fldsview.blogspot.com/search?q=flora

~

Flora does more harm than good, is an unpredictable bad source, and not credit worthy.… She talks a good ball game, but when you look at her…. She rules over anybody who gets in her way, including me.”

-Bob Curran, founder of the anti-polygamist organization, Help the Child Brides, (personally worked with Flora)

~

"Flora has been swept up in “the TV interviews, the fame, and the glory. … She loves the attention. She's craved it her whole life.… Nobody wants anything to do with Flora.” “Flora's been getting away with these [false] stories for a long time now, and it’s time to shut her down.”

-Pennie Petersen, anti-polygamy activist who grew up with Flora in FLDS

~

"My sister Fawn's story is similar most people still believe she fled a "forced marriage" My father treated her the same way as Uncle Fred did Flora. Yet when she took her to Phoenix, Flora had Fawn give an affidavit saying she was "abused”, “faced a forced marriage” and “feared for blood atonement", despite the fact that Fawn has over ten older sisters and not one was married under eighteen or ever felt that they were forced. The CPS and authorities in Arizona investigated, the charges were dropped, and Flora was ordered to stay away from Fawn. That part of the story never made the paper.

http://fldsview.blogspot.com/search?q=flora

~


Quotes From Insiders

"Flora ran away with her cousin Phillip Jessop. He was not much older than she. I know I lived there. Flora was never in a plural marriage relationship except her father had more than one wife."

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5458658945502484148&postID=2934930550860397775&isPopup=true

~

The FLDS website has an interesting story up. It's purportedly by the woman who raised Flora Jessop, and she wants to set the record straight. I think it's only fair to read it, since Flora has been telling her side of the story to the media and anybody who will listen for years now. Unlike Flora's version, this woman's tale has a couple details that ought to be able to be verified, or not, by a good reporter checking a few court records.


To whom it may concern:

"My name is Martha Barlow Jessop, wife of the late Fred M. Jessop, whom Flora referred to as “Grandpa.” I am an Advanced Practice Registered Nurse and a Certified Nurse Midwife. I was very closely associated with Flora from her birth until she was 16 years old. I was appointed her guardian by the State of Utah when she was 14. She was under my direct care and supervision, living in my home, until she left at age 16 years.
After listening to and hearing of the stories and lies that Flora has been telling and putting out to the world through the media—lies about how she was “abused” and “escaped” from her childhood home and religion, I feel compelled to tell the true story of Flora......

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=45
~
 

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