The Roy Kronk Connection- Opening Statements-Kronk takes the stand 2011.06.28

[Steely Dan]

How could this RK connection explain the duct tape? Are you implying that RK put the duct tape on Caylee himself. Why would he do that if she was already dead because she supposedly drowned? I don't see any connection there, but maybe I'm brain dead today. Anyone have any suggestions in explaining this...?

The only thing I think they could go with, and this is just absurd beyond belief, is that RK put the duct tape over Caylees mouth when he first saw the body because he's into duct tape and he's morally bankrupt. JMO

 

[DawnTCB]

Poking around tonight I found some interviews from all of the deputies that answered MR's calls in August. I don't recall reading them before and there was some interesting stuff in here IMO, regarding where MR was looking on those August calls.

The most interesting, I think, was RC's (now former deputy) which starts on 5397. It seems that while the Crime Scene unit was doing their work at the site, on 12/18/08, they took RC down to have him show where MR told him to look. And it was not where the crime scene folks were, but further east.

YM: OK, let me, uh... before we turned the tape on we actually walked outside. I want to, if we, if turn over and you look that way, right outside the window, you see outside the front of the command post there's a Crime Scene van, or the, the trailer. You see that?
RC: Yeah.
YM: Earlier when we were, started walking, what side of the trailer did, did you believe this, uh, this path was? And...
RC: When we walked out there?
YM: Yeah, when we were out there what side of the trailer...
RC: The...front far side.
YM: Okay, so it would be, that way is east...so...further past the trailer?
RC: Um, yeah, further east.
YM: Okay. When we walked down earlier, you went down a, well like a little, overgrown path. You had to move some branches out of your way.
RC: Right.
YM: And you stood at the base of a tree?
RC: Right.
YM: I walked with you. Sergeant Allen stayed up near the, the roadway, on the right of way.
RC: Right.
YM: Where in relation to where the three of us were standing was the caller?
RC: He was in the, whatever you want to call that...
YM: Was he standing where Sergeant Allen was? Was he standing where I was?
RC: Yeah, he was standing where Sergeant Allen was.

This indicates to me that they walked out to where the MR had directed them, and it was not in the clearing where the CSI were working.

And he also says this to Detective Allen, when asked if he is certain about the above statement:
JA: ...are you certain it was...
RC: I'm, I'm almost positive. I mean the, the tree, I leaned over the little think that looks like a creek where the water flows through.
JA: Okay. Could it have been up, up where you see these Crime Scene people working?
RC: I guess. I mean I, it could have been. But that's not, that's not where I went in the woods at.
JA: Okay, so you, where these Crime Scene people are working right now, you're certain that's not where you went into the woods?
RC: No.
JA: You think it's further down?
RC: And it's further...
JA: Are you certain it's further down?
RC: And i'm certain it's further down.

Then this:
JA: What about the fence? There's a... picket fence.
YM: A wood fence.
RC: I don't remember... seeing the picket fence; not at all.
YM: The, the wood fence right behind us.
RC: Yeah.
YM: Outside this door.
RC: A big wooden fence.
YM: Right.
RC: I don't remember seeing that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The only thing I think they could go with, and this is just absurd beyond belief, is that RK put the duct tape over Caylees mouth when he first saw the body because he's into duct tape and he's morally bankrupt. JMO

Well, it is absurd but, with "Baez" (quote to show how important he thinks he is) in charge you're probably right.

 

[DawnTCB]

Roy states that he was 99.999% sure that he was looking at a skull on August 11th.

Just listened to this again, and I think it is interesting that although he does say he is 99.999% sure what he saw in August was skull, he also says he is not even fifty percent sure he was in the same spot in December as he was in August.

Here's the audio link again, he says that around 5:13, warning lots of foul language in this one of course.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFjF5f8i1Ns"]Part 2[/ame]

And here is the transcript...

EE: Now let's, we'll use the percentage thing again. What percentage do you think that that was the same area where you made the observation back in August?
RK: Not, fifty maybe. Not even, you know, because like I said, from when it's filled with water and you know, there's other debris in the area...

I'm not sure what to make of that. If he says he is not even fifty percent certain he was in the same area, that says to me that he is more than fifty percent sure he was NOT in the same area.

 

[OneLove]

I can't help but believe the whole "Roy Kronk's to blame" thing is yet another ICA temper tantrum. She always blames those who call her on her BS. Somehow she holds him accountable for her being where she is and she demands revenge. After all, she IS the queen of spitefullness. The defense strategy on the whole is so, well, indefensible that it just about has to be ICA's warped and disordered thinking. Everyone is to blame but her. Still. In my opinion.

 

[DawnTCB]

Well, since the DT has apparently dropped the idea that MR was the murderer, I'm feeling like he won't be dragged too far under the bus.

But... if where he was in August is the same place the PIs were at in November, and neither MR nor the PIs admit they received a tip that originated with ICA, it certainly lends some validity to the idea that someone else knew the body was in that spot. That's a big if, but it could create some doubt. MR was far too confident about what he saw, and DC was far too confident in what he was going to find for both of them to be in the same spot without the same tip, IMO.

I did see one of MR's coworker's map tonight and it does match up closer to the crime scene. But former deputy RC and others put him much closer to the PI's spot, IMO, and MR himself seems unsure of the location.

I've sleuthed this all I can tonight, though. See you guys tomorrow.:seeya:

 

[krisskross]

"No good deed goes unpunished" is right! RK may have been a big greedy perhaps, but what's the point of bringing him into the limelight? Where is JB going with this? To explain why it took so long to find the remains? What difference does it make anyway? Mostly this trial is about figuring out if Caylee was murdured by Casey! Anyone have a clue?

Baez called Kronk "morally corrupt". Yeh, the irony is rich. I believe Baez' intent was to accuse Roy Kronk of staging the duct tape.........to further sensationalize this crime. :crazy:

Now how he proposes to get the jury from point (A) i.e. George using the family laundry bag, and Henkel duct tape to point (B) where Kronk finds Caylee's body at least a month later, stashes her remains then re-buries Caylee's tiny bones over half an acre :floorlaugh: :crazy: .............:truce:

I guess even Baez/ICA couldn't suggest George didn't love Caylee or that he would desecrate her face with duct tape. It this was an accidental drowning/coverup, someone else had to re-attach Caylee's mandible to her skull. The "morally corrupt" R. Kronk serves that purpose.

The defense's BS story was created to distance ICA from the duct tape........aka murder weapon and the disposal of the body. The evidence from the car must have slipped Baez' mind. :loser: But remember, ICA is the one who signs off on her defense strategy. This is all Casey!

Now given, we know the defense reads the blogs, and pays attention to the talking heads.....will Baez go through with his wild claims about Kronk. The words laughing and stock spring to mind.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think we'll all be cringing in disbelief when the DT begins the Kronking of Roy ... I can't see how this is going to be worked in in a plausible way. Should be good for a laugh, but.

 

[CentralFLMama]

the Roy Kronk factor takes the defense theory from laughable to downright absurd.

 

[mck16]

Was Roy K paid the reward money and also was anyone paid any reward money? tia

 

[Tuffy]

Was Roy K paid the reward money and also was anyone paid any reward money? tia

Nope and nope. I believe that someone did give Mr. Kronk money after the fact, in a kindhearted move. But no, Mr. Kronk never could have received the reward because he was a city worker on the clock when the discovery was made.

ETA - also I think the reward offer had already expired too. Wasn't it a reward for a 'live' Caylee?

ETA 2 - yep, the reward was for her safe return.

http://crime.about.com/od/current/qt/caylee_july23_e.htm

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Mark nejame former lawyer for George and Cindy who went on to represent Texas equasearch gave Roy Kronk $5000 I believe when it became clear he would not be receiving any of the reward money.

 

[heartfortruth]

I got lost when JB started in on RKronk. He said that RK moved the body, but from where to where - when to when never came out that I heard. It seemed as though JB got lost in his explanation as he became fixated with RK's desire to become rich with the reward money. This whole tale became very confusing and didn't ever go anywhere other than RK discovered the body after several attempts of reporting it. JB's point was totally lost by me, he seems to fixate on 'profit of monies' on a number of peoples testimony/depos. Anybody - comments please. I am still confused with this. TY

You asked for comments, this is mine:
The IRONY gets richer and richer! (thanks, JS)

thanks for these and all others thoughts because I did NOT understand the mumbo-jumbo of that OS after about the first few sentences! You guys are helping me with this. Guess I'm just too stupid!:waitasec:

 

[LancelotLink]

Personally, I find the "Daisy Chain" held more possibilities than what the defense was shoveling. But, that would mean the location would have come from the murderer and we can't have that. :crazy:

 

[Lera213]

It's been a while since I thought about Kronk so I went back to read some of the threads. MR's connections was/is one of the big mysteries of this case to me for several reasons. There was LP's "daisy chain" theory - which seemed to be involving a discussion between ICA and JB, overheard by MR's girlfriend who worked at the jail, told to MR, who tried with varying degrees of urgency to get police to look. There were the mysterious pavers, which the PI's searched for and found, although they ended up being the wrong pavers. The LP theory being that the PIs were tipped off that they could find Caylee in that area, near the pavers in a bag... and maybe MR was tipped with the same, incomplete and vague information. This makes a lot of sense to me.

I have long been confused by the various descriptions of the "bag" MR saw, which he described at various times as "gray", "metallic silver", "vinyl" and "like a pool cover". Of course we now know it was a black garbage bag and a laundry bag which was neither gray nor silver nor vinyl. If he had a vague tip like "I heard ICA tell JB the body is in that area near pavers in a bag" he could have looked, seen a bag, and reported it. Oops, wrong bag. Ok, looks again, another bag, calls it in, still not the right bag. At some point tells his son he knows where the body is and he is going to report it and be famous. Son encourages him to go ahead and do it, I would assume. So the third time he goes all the way into the trees and looks specifically for bones because there is no point in continuing to report the wrong bag. Finds it, reports it, forgets to read the small print (what weird terminology, JB) and is cleared by police almost immediately.

I don't know. I have thought all along he had information given to him somehow. JB's theory that MR moved the body is ludicrous though and doesn't even make any sense with the DT theory. I need to listen that part again. I think the mystery location MR found it is exactly where it was when police arrived. But I think he reported completely different bags the first two times because his information was too vague.

And I think the change in CA's demeanor around 11/15 when her PIs were doing their searches was when she learned the truth... I don't think she would have been so changed by a psychic tip but she would have been by a tip passed to her by ICA or her DT. And so she sends the PIs out to follow the same credible yet vague tip that MR got.

FWIW I still think MR is the hero who found Caylee. I just don't think he was simply lucky.

ITA,

I for one never heard the story about RK sister until yesterday evening on Foxnews LP was on and he stated it. That was the first time I heard that and it is very plausible. I'm sure phone records could verify it also would it not?

I also saw for the first time the video of DC searching, and it was clear he was looking around pavers, garbage bags, and any type of cloth material.

I really don't care if that is the case, the body was found, and thank goodness before the defense found it. Not telling what would have happened if they found it first.

 

[Hot Dogs]

In the PI video here, starting about 6:21, you can see what to me looks like "a fallen tree where someone had tried to cut on it at one point" and a "white board" which JH seems to be paying a lot of attention to. This video makes me a little nauseous :sick: but there are many, many gray/vinyl looking bags that DC stabs with his stick, and at least two white plastic containers, one which looks to me to be like a gallon milk jug and one maybe a quart of oil container?

What do you think?

Yes, I can see it. The fallen tree with the white board. It looks like some kind of white square thing and it might not really be a board. Is it a actually a paver? It's leaning on the log and there's actually a second one laying flat on the ground next to it. But RK said the round white thing (skull?) was under there. This doesn't seem to make sense because it looks like the log is laying on the ground and there is no "underneath". Kronk's calls to OCSO were absolutely horrible for pinpointing his location on Suburban Dr. If you put yourself in their shoes trying to find what he tried to described, it's almost worthless. It's like - what the hell is this guy talking about? How do you realistically convey what he said to a patrol cop?

I might also see what he described as a pool cover. At 7:37 you see a big striped material thing with foldings. That might look like a (small) pool cover to him.

So why would his coworker describe his Aug 11 finding location so far away from here?

Let's say you are right, Dawn. Let's say RK really didn't find her skull and remains on August 11th in spite of telling his buddies he saw a skull and then telling OCSO he saw something suspicious worth checking out. Let's say he really was far away from the true remains location. It brings something weird...

He returns to the swamp area on Suburban on December 11th to urinate and have another look at the suspicious item which was never fully resolved for him in August. The area is now essentially dry. But he doesn't go to pee and poke around at his original August location, he's in a completely different spot which is rather far away from his earlier "skull finding". What the hell? In his interviews with OCSO after finding Caylee he never mentions poking around in his original spot in addition (prior to) to the ultimate finding spot. Had he totally written-off his original suspicious thing and just decided to pee and look someplace else? Why wouldn't he explain this if this is what really happened? Or did he actually go to the original spot and find nothing and then start searching in other places?

Do you think he was lying to OCSO about the full details of what he had been doing in those woods in his efforts to search?

 

[Hot Dogs]

I for one never heard the story about RK sister until yesterday evening on Foxnews LP was on and he stated it. That was the first time I heard that and it is very plausible. I'm sure phone records could verify it also would it not?

I'm confused here. Are you talking about RK's girlfriend who worked at the jail?

I've seen numerous web references saying that she worked in the Human Resources Department which would not put her in contact with inmates nor even near them.

 

[Lera213]

Yes, I can see it. The fallen tree with the white board. It looks like some kind of white square thing and it might not really be a board. Is it a actually a paver? It's leaning on the log and there's actually a second one laying flat on the ground next to it. But RK said the round white thing (skull?) was under there. This doesn't seem to make sense because it looks like the log is laying on the ground and there is no "underneath". Kronk's calls to OCSO were absolutely horrible for pinpointing his location on Suburban Dr. If you put yourself in their shoes trying to find what he tried to described, it's almost worthless. It's like - what the hell is this guy talking about? How do you realistically convey what he said to a patrol cop?

I might also see what he described as a pool cover. At 7:37 you see a big striped material thing with foldings. That might look like a (small) pool cover to him.

So why would his coworker describe his Aug 11 finding location so far away from here?

Let's say you are right, Dawn. Let's say RK really didn't find her skull and remains on August 11th in spite of telling his buddies he saw a skull and then telling OCSO he saw something suspicious worth checking out. Let's say he really was far away from the true remains location. It brings something weird...

He returns to the swamp area on Suburban on December 11th to urinate and have another look at the suspicious item which was never fully resolved for him in August. The area is now essentially dry. But he doesn't go to pee and poke around at his original August location, he's in a completely different spot which is rather far away from his earlier "skull finding". What the hell? In his interviews with OCSO after finding Caylee he never mentions poking around in his original spot in addition (prior to) to the ultimate finding spot. Had he totally written-off his original suspicious thing and just decided to pee and look someplace else? Why wouldn't he explain this if this is what really happened? Or did he actually go to the original spot and find nothing and then start searching in other places?

Do you think he was lying to OCSO about the full details of what he had been doing in those woods in his efforts to search?

All great questions and this is why what LP (hate to say that) probably was telling the truth and that is ICA was overheard telling someone where the location of the remains could be found. That person who over heard it, called someone out of state, then called a family member in the area to go look.

If we know anything at all is ICA lies, I could see her giving very vague directions, just enough of truth but not the exact spot.

I find it also hard to believe RK would go that far in the woods to pee.

Did RK have anything to do with the murder? No, did someone at the jail break rules by relaying information gathered through attorney client privilege yes.

There was no way to get the cops to that area to search if that information was attorney client privileged information.

There is no way to prove it unless RK slips on the stand and says so. This is why JB has RK son on the stand.

I'm glad LE found it because DC working for CA or DT was so close to finding it themselves. If they found it first, I hate to think what would have happened.

 

[allycat1208]

Well, since the DT has apparently dropped the idea that MR was the murderer, I'm feeling like he won't be dragged too far under the bus.

But... if where he was in August is the same place the PIs were at in November, and neither MR nor the PIs admit they received a tip that originated with ICA, it certainly lends some validity to the idea that someone else knew the body was in that spot. That's a big if, but it could create some doubt. MR was far too confident about what he saw, and DC was far too confident in what he was going to find for both of them to be in the same spot without the same tip, IMO.

I did see one of MR's coworker's map tonight and it does match up closer to the crime scene. But former deputy RC and others put him much closer to the PI's spot, IMO, and MR himself seems unsure of the location.

I've sleuthed this all I can tonight, though. See you guys tomorrow.:seeya:

Whose MR?

 

[Hot Dogs]

MR = meter reader (Roy Kronk).