The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

[hawkshaw]

The story has many beginnings. Close as I can come with a relevant story goes back to April, 1979. It involved the murder of a 13 year old Smithtown, NY lad named John Pius Jr.

The DA would say that 4 young men, about the same age or a little bit older killed John because John saw them stealing a worthless mini-bike off the lawn of a neighbor. They feared John would rat them out and so they went back to look for him. During a struggle and beating him one thing led to another and John died after the 4 young men held him down and allegedly put stones in his mouth to silence him.

During this period of time the Town of Smithtown was plagued with scores of burglaries. Most of them were of homes. I did speak to a person involved in those burglaries. I will leave it at that. He told me there was a group of young kids, ages - 13-17 that were committed burglars. This source was only 14 himself. The murder victim hung out with them. I never did get into if John was a fellow burglar. But surely, John had to know his friends were burglars.

The question is: Assuming John knew they were burglars why would they kill him for seeing them steal a worthless mini-bike ? The cops needed an ‘instant motive’ to put forth their version of the crime.

The source told me the reason they were able to get away with this for so long is they had a very bright young man that went out and plotted the places to be robbed. He was so good at organizing they were able to accomplish their burglaries without being caught.

This murder was probably the most publicized and controversial murder case in Suffolk County at that time, and probably is ranked in the Top Three to this day.

Cops went out and rounded up all the ‘usual suspects’. In less than 1 week they got two of the young lads to confess to the murder. One ‘confession’ was even tape recorded by a detective. The only problem is they didn’t make any arrests until more than 7 months later. This is unheard of in the annals of SCPD history. There is no other conclusion one can come to other than it was purse BS, they knew it and had to put more of the pieces together to get the suspects they already had in mind for this crime. It didn’t matter if they did it or not, they were targeted and that was that.

The cops then went to the home of one of the group of kids and he would tell them certain things that one of the suspects told him and others several months later while sitting around a local hangout location of those kids. One of the kids told these young fellows everything just short of an outright confession. It was enough for any jury to conclude these kids were guilty. This is and still is a common practice in Suffolk County: Tell a half lie and allow the jury to conclude the rest of it. It will give the jury a sense of truth because the jury will ask themselves if this witness is lying why wouldn’t he just say the defendant told him he killed Pius? And, therefore, it must be the truth.

continued........

 

[fieldnotes]

The Pius case and all its ramifications is truly fascinating. Here's part I of one of the best articles on it. Unfortunately only Part I is available on the internet at least that I can find. I had to track down part II at my library. Either way both are worth the read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=sOcCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA32&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[nugzter]

The Pius case and all its ramifications is truly fascinating. Here's part I of one of the best articles on it. Unfortunately only Part I is available on the internet at least that I can find. I had to track down part II at my library. Either way both are worth the read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=sOcCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA32&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Pius case was mentioned here before a few months ago. I will go back and look exactly where and give you a link to it.

This is something I found
http://ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19890608_0047094.NY.htm/qx
http://ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19860922_0050742.ny.htm/qx
http://ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19860922_0050742.ny.htm/qx

 

[bessie]

The Pius case and all its ramifications is truly fascinating. Here's part I of one of the best articles on it. Unfortunately only Part I is available on the internet at least that I can find. I had to track down part II at my library. Either way both are worth the read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=sOcCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA32&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

Some discussion can also be found beginning with this post in the Suffolk Homicide Chief: New Look At Gilgo...thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/report.php?p=7678959

Hawkshaw, you might not realize this, but I have been paying attention. The problem I've had is connecting the dots. How does the murder of Johnny Pius 33 years ago relate to the present case other than the fact that some of the players are the same? Hasn't SC LE undergone reform since the famous SIC report?

So I took off my mod glasses and read through the previous three pages of this thread. The issue now seems to be not the deceased subject of the rumor, but the rumor itself. As others have pointed out, LE did not exonerate JB2 in the statement. Yet if he were truly a suspect, would they have responded to the rumors in the first place? Such an ambiguous statement doesn't do much to dispel gossip. So what purpose does it serve? Is there really a hidden agenda? If so, how would the rumor favor it?

 

[Reannan]

I think the recent rumor involving JB is definitely worth looking at, but not from an angle to continue to pursue "JB". I am very intersted in the 'why, who, and when" regarding the origin of the rumor. It is sort of like being interested in who started the recent fire in Manorville that has been deemed arson. Was the fire an attempt to destroy old, or even new, evidence that is out there in Manorville? Was 'the rumor' created, nurtured, and perpetuated to take attention away from someone else who is being looked at, or perhaps to just put an end to this case and declare it solved? That would be a truly horrible thing to think an innocent man could be accused of the crimes involved with a case that will definitely go down in the history books. Thanks Bessie for keeping us on-task, but I hope we can discuss the various aspects of the rumor. I don't think any of us at WS's really think JB had anything to do with this case.

 

[hawkshaw]

Why has this happened? I can only take a guess. I suggest you take into consideration my bias regarding Spota and company - whatever bias I may have.

The PIUS CONNECTION? That is where Spota met the new Chief of Department, James Burke. Burke was 14 years old at the time. Burke played an important part in that case by testifying for the prosecution.

Most of those kids were burglars. Burke was their friend and neighbor. They hung out together. Those kids did near 100 burglaries. It was never a part of the trial as far as I know.

Burke will eventually join the SCPD after a short stint in the NYPD. He is in Suffolk and is a major player in Spota's campaign. Spota all but confirmed that.

Spota will take him on as his commander of his detective squad. He will eventually add the title of Chief Investigator.

Both Spota and Burke 'investigate' Levy. That matter has never been resolved to the satisfaction of a lot of the people.

Bellone waltzed in and he made Burke the Chief of Department. Bellone does this without giving the courtesy of appointing the Chief to the police commissioner. Bellone forms a search committee for a new PC. Goes public and says that any candidate that doesn't like Burke should not bother to apply.

Burke gets in and that moron Spota is going public crediting Burke with innovative programs that lead to arrests that otherwise wouldn't have been made - according to Spota. What better praise can Spota heaped upon Burke than to solve the Gilgo Beach murders? OK, folks, let us go back to the Drawing Board : start a rumor and see how far it flies.

RUMORS? There are PLENTY of rumors about Burke. You might be surprised wha they are. Anyone that has the guts to talk will tell you what they are. It is in his file, or I should say it WAS. Now that he is Chief of All the Indians he has the clout to have it removed

 

[hawkshaw]

sorry, but I don't know how to link it, but if you do a search for: Quartararo v Fogg you will find what federal judge Korman said about the case. It was a scathing rebuke of the DA and tiral court. There is also another case of the brother of the Quartararo mention in FOGG that Korman entered another scathing opinion and reversed that case as well.

TO THE POSTER THAT SAID THE SCPD/DA had been reformed. LOL. Yeah, it only got worse than it ever was now that Spota is in charge. This is well known by many prominent attorneys that are willing to speak off the record.

 

[hawkshaw]

A little history to let you know where I am coming from. I a retired NYPD detective whose son in law, a former SCPD cop was indicted and convicted of participating in a burglary ring while acting both on and off duty as a look-out for the burglary ring. The indictment came about on 11/16/04. The trial started in January, 2006, He was convicted of participating in three burglaries : 1999 and 2000. Two of the burglaries were dismissed by the appellate court. His sentence of 5 to 15 years was reduced to 1 2/3 to 5. He would spend the entire 3 years in prison to his conditional release date.

When I became aware that he was indicted I insisted on taking a part in the case as an investigator. Frankly, as a former detective I came to believe that some of what was charged had some basis in truth. I entered the case with an open mind, as an investigator should when trying to get to the truth.

I sat at the edge of my seat during the trial waiting to hear something that would give me reason to believe he was guilty. Truth is I would have been more at peace knowing he was guilty - at least he was going to prison for a crime he committed.

I always believed the evidence was manufactured, but not to the extent I found it later to be fabricated. I always believed the police and DA recklessly took the word of the informant without doing a responsible investigation into this matter. What I found was the DA found the ‘witnesses’ and fed them lies to tell to the grand jury.

I just looked at a report created by the SCPD on 11/13/03 where an alleged witness accomplice named Joseph Careccia said my son in law was part of an armed robbery of the Strathmore Bagel Co., on 7/25/00. It is clear and concise and it is indisputable. That was on 11/13/03. On 7/2/04, Careccia repeated that lie in a sealed courtroom before Judge James Hudson. That statement was clearly entered into the record when Careccia, in the company of his attorney, Raymond Perini swore to that in his allocution of committing 38 violent felonies, and agreed to cooperate in the investigation of my son in law.

IT WAS LATER PROVEN TO BE A LIE! The son in law was proven to have been vacationing in Europe: 7/18 to 7/27.

This information came to the DA’s attention as early as 11/13/03. It was repeated on 7/2/04, and the morons never bothered to check out the SIL’s whereabouts all that time ( 9 months), but they did so before Careccia went before the grand jury. The morons finally got his credit card records sometime between 7/2/04 and the grand jury presentation in Sept/Oct, 2004, and didn’t enter the case into evidence. The DA would never tell us this lie existed. They simply dropped it off the ‘menu’ of the indictment.

They ‘threw’ in this lie because the crime happened five or more years in the past. How could anyone substantially prove where they were on a particular day some many years ago? They weren’t counting on such convincing evidence that would clearly show he couldn’t have committed a crime that carried a minimum sentence of 20 years upon conviction.

They also had a statement that a Eddie Wright was part of the burglary of a King Kullen Supermarket where the son in law was allegedly working in his patrol car giving cover for Careccia and the burglars. The testimony was clear and concise. Wright was there, and it was so testified to on Direct and Cross. EDDIE WRIGHT WAS IN A VIRGINIA JAIL WHEN THE BURGLARY HAPPENED. The morons never bothered to check to see where he was on that day!

On 4/28/03, at least 2 persons tried to shoot and kill Careccia outside of his home in St.James. The assailants got away. They used an SUV that Careccia and the ‘suspects’ stole from a home @ 5 Apex Lane, Coram, NY on 12/25/01. Careccia would later testify in the grand jury that later that day his ‘neighbor’ stopped by and inquired of his situation and told him where the SUV was dumped and when and where it was stolen. When asked by the ADA if he knew the ‘neighbors’ name and where he lived, Careccia simply replied, “NO”, and the matter was dropped. Who could have known such critical information such as to what Careccia testified to other than a ranking police officer with the ability to call the investigating detectives and ask for an update.

And how did Careccia know this was his ‘neighbor’ if he didn’t know his name or where he lived. The block Careccia lived on was of only 12 private residences.

JAMES BURKE was Careccia’s neighbor from 1998-2002. He lived only four doors away from him.

In August of 2003, detectives brought in a Peter Ghattas to give information of the Careccia crime crew. He was debriefed and gave extensive information about Careccia and the crew to the police. He was then brought to the DA office where Burke was the investigator in charge. That was on 9/3/03. He repeated those allegations to members of the DA’s Office and signed an agreement to cooperate. On 9/24/03, Ghattas was murdered outside of Rob’s Pro Tow, a location that would come to the attention of Spota when he arrested a SCPD cop for providing information to gamblers that there was going to be raids on gambling locations. That homicide, to the best of my knowledge has never been solved to this day, although one of the alleged suspects has pled out to federal charges and is doing 40+ years in a federal prison.

Detectives and ADA Prudenti would go to Florida to bring Careccia back to LI for investigation on 10/23/03, and on 11/13/03 we have our first known information that Careccia would participate in a series of lies, beginning with Strathmore Bagel. He would go from being a prime suspect in that murder to allocating to 38 violent felonies, and would eventually receive 5 years probation while engaging in a widespread mortgage/bank fraud scheme in Boca Raton, FL. He would be given the courtesy of doing his probation in Florida and would continue a life of crime in Florida, or until I exposed his criminal acts to the Palm Beach county probation department and on the Internet regarding is mortgage/bank fraud scheme. Careccia got just too hot to handle and I suspect his higher ups in the mortgage scam had to say, ‘good bye, Joe, look for another line of work. And, so he did. He went into the used car business and promptly stole 15 cars from a former LAPD cop that was in the REPO business after the LA cop parked his cars in Joe’s lot awaiting transfer back to the banks. Carecica forged 15 titles and converted the cars to himself and held them hostage for 40K from the banks until they paid. Don’t know if that ever happened.

Careccia would also outright steal two tow trucks from the LAPD cop and place them at Access Towing in Boynton Beach, FL. Access has since been arrested for predatory practices by the authorities in Florida. My informant told me he was aware that 4 kilos of cocaine were delivered to Access and Careccia was part of that deal.

Careccia would threatened the LAPD with the murder of him and his family, and that uses black drug dealers for that purpose because they have no conscience and will kill an entire family. That drug dealer was Alex “Raz” Williams, a known drug dealer, and a person that bragged he was a killer.

WHY DO I TELL YOU READERS ALL OF THE ABOVE? Very simple. If the SCPD and DA would engage in such wrongful activity then what IS CREATING A RUMOR THAT A DEAD SUFFOLK RESIDENT AND BUSINESS LEADER IS A SUSPECT IN THE GILGO CASE? This would be child’s play compared to what I just wrote.

Ask yourself what is in Burke’s file ( probably now destroyed) and ask if he was ever involved with prostitutes. Ask if there was ever an allegation that certain members of the SCPD ever rented homes on Fire Island and if they brought in hookers off of Internet sites to and bring them there for sex orgies. Then ask yourself if even there is even a hint of truth should the SCPD, under Burke’s command be charged with investigating the matter of Gilgo Beach.

 

[LINative13]

Levy extorted money for his campaign. Thats why his warchest was taken away and given back to all the people he extorted it from. Case closed. Spota pegged him.

 

[hawkshaw]

Levy 'extorted' money? LOL. THEY ALL EXTORT MONEY. How many folks out there that give vast sums of money that do it because they are interested in good government. Please, that doesn't fly in Peoria.

I am sure he did 'extort' money. And, if he did he should have been indicted. Spota had NO right to seize the money without an indictment.

Almost 50% of Spota's contributions came from trade unions and organizations. I guess they are concerned about good government, too.

There isn't a poltician alive that can stand the smell test and not be indicted for campaign money. Not even an HONEST one.

Bottom Line: Spota and his Boy Toy Burke went after Levy and Bellone waltzed in and Burke became Chief of Department.

This man, IMHO, is not even worthy to be a light duty police officer, much less the Chief of any department.

 

[LINative13]

Bellone did not waltz in. He crushed carpenter.

You are out of your element on this one and do not understand politics. Levy GAVE UP his warchest to save face. Spota did not take it. Levy could have held on to it and fought it out in court. But he didnt, cause he was guilty. LEt me guess, you are a republican?

 

[LINative13]

WAY OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!

And I can tell because with all the name dropping you are doing; you still have not named ANY of the people that influenced that decision!

 

[Samantha Spade]

WOW! You're making New Jersey look pretty darn good.

 

[hawkshaw]

When you crush your opponent that is akin to a waltz. When I said Spota 'took' Levy's war chest I didn't mean he took it and kept it for himself or his office.

The argument put forth by Spota detractors, including the LI Press is that Spota had no right to take the money if he didn't charge for a crime. Spota just makes it up as he goes along.

Am I a Republican? Please don't insult me anymore than you have to. Spota was a Republican and now he is a Democrat. He will always be a .

I believe I am registered as a Republican. One time some years ago I voted Democrat down the line after the GOP continued to screw up in Nassau County, where I live.

If Levy committed a crime he should have been charged and deal later. That is the way it is supposed to be done.

Being a GOP or a DEM in Suffolk County is like when we were kids choosing up for a stickball game. The money the POLS get is like keeping score like in a baseball, bowling, or tennis game to see who is winning and by how much.

PS - I know very little about Suffolk politics, or politics for that matter. What I do know is I know a crook when I see one. And all I see in Suffolk County is gangsters with law degrees and badges. Shaffer is the Boss of Bosses and Spota is the Frank Nitti of his organization. Ed Walsh is in charge of the Conservative Gang, and Frank MacKay is head of the Independant Gang.

 

[hawkshaw]

Spota the Gangster and money procurer persecuted 10 Filipino nurses and their lawyer when he had absolutely NO AUTHORITY to do so. He did that after The Democrat Chuck Schumer received 200K from Sentosa for the Democrats, and Spota received a measly $1500.00 from the same organization.

Spota will now have to go to federal court to defend himself in a lawsuit of the nurses and their attorney.

 

[truthspider]

And all I see in Suffolk County is gangsters with law degrees and badges. Shaffer is the Boss of Bosses and Spota is the Frank Nitti of his organization. Ed Walsh is in charge of the Conservative Gang, and Frank MacKay is head of the Independant Gang.

Gangsters? I thought it was called "The Town of Crookhaven" because there is lots of little turns in the roads there...

I now understand why I get a suffolk detectives association card every year, they know a full time gangster when they see one!

 

[hawkshaw]

Gangsters? I thought it was called "The Town of Crookhaven" because there is lots of little turns in the roads there...

I now understand why I get a suffolk detectives association card every year, they know a full time gangster when they see one!

Just to go on the record: I DO NOT consider ALL SCPD detectives to be gangsters. Most are not. But there are a definite group of them that are as bad as a John Gotti could ever be. Many of those are with the DA Squad. Before that they were in Homicide.

Most detectives in most police departments are just guys and gals who go along to get along. Don't make waves and don't rock any boats if they don't have to.

I suspect the DA squad is manned by mostly decent people. They just do their jobs and let the rest pass. I know because I have been there and done that.

They find someone that will do their dirty work, a detective that is vulnerable and weak and use them and throw them away when no longer needed.

In my son in law case they used a punk detective to do their dirty work. He testified at a pre-trial hearing and the spineless judge allowed his testimony in for trial. HE NEVER SHOWED UP FOR TRIAL because he was so bad at the hearing the DA didn't dare put him on. In fact, the DA didn't put any detective that supposedly investigated the case of the stand.

Two DA detectives were sitting in the courtroom. They left laughing and said to our attorney to give him his card should they get in trouble. They laughed and said they can't believe they were putting this S... at the trial.

So they are not all bad. Most are not.

 

[truthspider]

Just to go on the record: I DO NOT consider ALL SCPD detectives to be gangsters. Most are not. But there are a definite group of them that are as bad as a John Gotti could ever be. Many of those are with the DA Squad. Before that they were in Homicide.

Most detectives in most police departments are just guys and gals who go along to get along. Don't make waves and don't rock any boats if they don't have to.

I suspect the DA squad is manned by mostly decent people. They just do their jobs and let the rest pass. I know because I have been there and done that.

They find someone that will do their dirty work, a detective that is vulnerable and weak and use them and throw them away when no longer needed.

In my son in law case they used a punk detective to do their dirty work. He testified at a pre-trial hearing and the spineless judge allowed his testimony in for trial. HE NEVER SHOWED UP FOR TRIAL because he was so bad at the hearing the DA didn't dare put him on. In fact, the DA didn't put any detective that supposedly investigated the case of the stand.

Two DA detectives were sitting in the courtroom. They left laughing and said to our attorney to give him his card should they get in trouble. They laughed and said they can't believe they were putting this S... at the trial.

So they are not all bad. Most are not.

For the record, i dont know one single cop or one detective. Wait, thats not true, my babysitter when i was a kid is a scpd officer, and some girl i hooked up with in high school too. I hope the latter never pulls me over.....

 

[hawkshaw]

Why do I write what I write and seem to go Off Topic? Obviously I enjoy using any forum to expose these peope for what they are: criminals. The real reason is to educate you folks that never had an experience with these people to let you know what they are capable of doing. Making up a false rumor and spreading it around is SOP for these folks.

You hear a rumor from a cop or someone that you know knows a cop and you are now on the inside of a story. You tell someone else and they tell someone else, and before you know it the victim of the rumor is guilty as 'charged' The trial or the investigation is only a formality after that.

When this case first broke I became aware of my SILs arrest when my NCPD neighbor told me his friend was attending a private promotional class hosted by Jim Burke. At the session, Burke told his students of an impending arrest to be made later that day of a corrupt cop. My buddy knew of my SIL's problem and figured it was the SIL the cop to be arrested. He checked with me and I asked him to inquire of Burke, not knowing what role Burke played in this, and ask him just how bad the case was against him so we could prepare for the worst. The message I got back from my friend from Burke was something like this: Tell your friend (me) not to worry because if he (SIL) mans up and admits it he will not have to do state time. He told my friend that they knew he used a police radio and were able to corroborate that. I was clearly disturbed, but was thankful my question was returned. I never asked what Burke was doing teaching a class in Nassau County during the middle of a working day when he had a few dozen detectives working on important cases to supervise. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

When I later learned how treachorous this person was, and found he was involved in the Pius Case of 1979 and was a teen age witness, I became very suspicious of him. I would later go to two locations in Nassau and one in Yonkers, NY, and there he was in all his glory making a good deal of money teaching classes while he should have been at his desk in the DA office.

The statement about corroborating the radios turned out to be an outright lie. No radios were reported missing. The SIL was on extended sick leave and couldn't have access to a police radio. They are all signed out and accounted for. Besides, a police scanner readily available at any Radio Shack store, with codes, and everything you need is there for the asking. What good burglar would leave home without it?

Incredibly,, the three burglars would testify they never owned a commercial scanner, and if they did they wouldn''t know how to work it. These same guys were breaking into stores and breaking into safes, and emptying out warehouses of clothes and electronic equipment and they never used a police scanner, with or without a cop helping them.

The lies were so outrageous and bold that even I had a hard time believing any cop would perpetuate a lie of this magnitude thinking they could get away with it. That was probably the biggest stumbling block I encountered - the outrageous lies. They say when you tell a whopper you have a better chance of getting over the mark. I mean who would tell such a thing if it wasn''t true?

What I learned from the trial and from people in the system is some SCPD detectives would rather lie when the truth is more to convict. they just can't help themselves.

Let me tell you one thing about Suffolk County. The judges are afraid to expose the lying. Those that do soon find themselves out of the system or relegated to some civil court until they learn to be a 'team member' . Judge Stuart Namm learned that the hard way. Once the darling of the SCPD he was now branded a rogue judge with a chip on his shoulder with the cops. He had good reason to be upset because the lies that were bouncing around his court went way beyond the accepted rules of 'perjury.' He was so shaken by the perjury in his court in homicide cases that he wrote a letter to Gov.Mario Cuomo demanding an investigation into the conduct of the SCPD and DA office. Gov.Cuomo had no choice but to order the NYS SIC to do a complete investigation into this matter. It would result in a two year investigation of misconduct that would boggle the mind. What I think was supposed to happen was the SIC was going to do a half assed investigation, issue a report and letit pass. Instead, the Chairman of the SIC was an honest and tough lawyer, and would later go on to be a most respected federal judge : The Honorable David Trager.

When Namm came up for re-election he was refused his own party;s nomination. The GOP leader at the time was his former law partner, Dominick Baranello. sorry, Stu, you are history. Two other judges that Namm sought support from denied him such report and told him, Sorry, Stu, you are in this alone.....we have to run for re-election next year.

Namm was given some kind of an award for his good service. Only two lawyers dared to attend. The others didn't want to be seen supporting Namm in any way. Tom Spota led the coup against him when he was the then attorney for the PBA. Namm's car was keyed in the judge's parking lot.

Shannan Gilbert's death is 'undetermined' In a recent case where a man named Johnson was convicted of strangling a prostitute and he said she died for some unknown reason in his car, the ME, also said her death was 'undetermined'. She was only in the ground for a month and a half. Johnson admitted to taking her body and burying it. He was in trouble before but feared the wrath of his wife if she found out he was with a prostitute. And so he buried her. He said he didn't strangle her, she just died. Drug addicts have a way of doing that. The jury chose to believe the DA even though no cause of death was issued by the ME. In another case where they had an informant testifying against my son in law, a 29 year old male known to mainline Ketamine and take up to 30 vicodin pills each day, his cause of death was undeterminded, or at least two months after he was found dead at 31. Maybe that was because they put him on probation and was on probation before the trial in 2006 and remained under their care and supervision on probation. Somehow the probation department never found a trace of drugs in his body when he showed up for his schedluled appearances. He died in early 2009.

Funny thing about this guy is he communicated with me on the Internet and Emails. I really had no beef with him because he was afraid to go to jail. The terrorized him into telling lies. I warned him that unless he changed his ways and seeked help he would be dead in less than two years. He would either OD or he would crash his car, or some such accident, but he would be dead. He beat my prediction by a 1/2 a year.

You see, the DA seems to get 'undetermined' causes of death when it suits their agenda. I believe the Gilbert case is such a case.

BTW, those Bozos that call themselves M.E.s in suffolk county couldn't ID the four dead gals, their bodies had to be sent to the NYC ME for ID.

These awful people are hiding something, no doubt in my mind. I believe there is something they fear getting out that would embarrass somebody in high places, either directly of indirectly with these gals or other gals in the business.

Ask someone if it isn't true that a now high ranking police offical wasn;t charged with burglary, unlawful imprisonment when he left a prostitutes home in a drunken stop and when he realized he left his gun behind went back and kicked in the door and held the prostitute until the police were called.

Ask yourself if the 'rumor' is true that one day when he was on patrol he secured the services of a street walker and passed out after finishing his foray with the gal. Ask if it is just a rumor or if it is true that after the cop passed out the prostitute cuffed him with his own cuffs and took his gun to the local precinct for safekeeping. Ask if his reputation is not that of a person that regularly secured the services of prostitutes, either by his force of authority, and if they refused he outright raped them. Rumor, perhaps, but where there is a lot smoke there is usually a fire.

 

[meltruth]

That is not true about the 4 girls being transported to NYC M.E for Id. They were ID by the Suffolk County M.E. What brings you to the idea that SCPD could not ID the 4 girls? Just wondering. I am not trying to argue but as knowing exactly who ID the girls I just don't understand where you came up with that?

Why do I write what I write and seem to go Off Topic? Obviously I enjoy using any forum to expose these peope for what they are: criminals. The real reason is to educate you folks that never had an experience with these people to let you know what they are capable of doing. Making up a false rumor and spreading it around is SOP for these folks.

You hear a rumor from a cop or someone that you know knows a cop and you are now on the inside of a story. You tell someone else and they tell someone else, and before you know it the victim of the rumor is guilty as 'charged' The trial or the investigation is only a formality after that.

When this case first broke I became aware of my SILs arrest when my NCPD neighbor told me his friend was attending a private promotional class hosted by Jim Burke. At the session, Burke told his students of an impending arrest to be made later that day of a corrupt cop. My buddy knew of my SIL's problem and figured it was the SIL the cop to be arrested. He checked with me and I asked him to inquire of Burke, not knowing what role Burke played in this, and ask him just how bad the case was against him so we could prepare for the worst. The message I got back from my friend from Burke was something like this: Tell your friend (me) not to worry because if he (SIL) mans up and admits it he will not have to do state time. He told my friend that they knew he used a police radio and were able to corroborate that. I was clearly disturbed, but was thankful my question was returned. I never asked what Burke was doing teaching a class in Nassau County during the middle of a working day when he had a few dozen detectives working on important cases to supervise. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

When I later learned how treachorous this person was, and found he was involved in the Pius Case of 1979 and was a teen age witness, I became very suspicious of him. I would later go to two locations in Nassau and one in Yonkers, NY, and there he was in all his glory making a good deal of money teaching classes while he should have been at his desk in the DA office.

The statement about corroborating the radios turned out to be an outright lie. No radios were reported missing. The SIL was on extended sick leave and couldn't have access to a police radio. They are all signed out and accounted for. Besides, a police scanner readily available at any Radio Shack store, with codes, and everything you need is there for the asking. What good burglar would leave home without it?

Incredibly,, the three burglars would testify they never owned a commercial scanner, and if they did they wouldn''t know how to work it. These same guys were breaking into stores and breaking into safes, and emptying out warehouses of clothes and electronic equipment and they never used a police scanner, with or without a cop helping them.

The lies were so outrageous and bold that even I had a hard time believing any cop would perpetuate a lie of this magnitude thinking they could get away with it. That was probably the biggest stumbling block I encountered - the outrageous lies. They say when you tell a whopper you have a better chance of getting over the mark. I mean who would tell such a thing if it wasn''t true?

What I learned from the trial and from people in the system is some SCPD detectives would rather lie when the truth is more to convict. they just can't help themselves.

Let me tell you one thing about Suffolk County. The judges are afraid to expose the lying. Those that do soon find themselves out of the system or relegated to some civil court until they learn to be a 'team member' . Judge Stuart Namm learned that the hard way. Once the darling of the SCPD he was now branded a rogue judge with a chip on his shoulder with the cops. He had good reason to be upset because the lies that were bouncing around his court went way beyond the accepted rules of 'perjury.' He was so shaken by the perjury in his court in homicide cases that he wrote a letter to Gov.Mario Cuomo demanding an investigation into the conduct of the SCPD and DA office. Gov.Cuomo had no choice but to order the NYS SIC to do a complete investigation into this matter. It would result in a two year investigation of misconduct that would boggle the mind. What I think was supposed to happen was the SIC was going to do a half assed investigation, issue a report and letit pass. Instead, the Chairman of the SIC was an honest and tough lawyer, and would later go on to be a most respected federal judge : The Honorable David Trager.

When Namm came up for re-election he was refused his own party;s nomination. The GOP leader at the time was his former law partner, Dominick Baranello. sorry, Stu, you are history. Two other judges that Namm sought support from denied him such report and told him, Sorry, Stu, you are in this alone.....we have to run for re-election next year.

Namm was given some kind of an award for his good service. Only two lawyers dared to attend. The others didn't want to be seen supporting Namm in any way. Tom Spota led the coup against him when he was the then attorney for the PBA. Namm's car was keyed in the judge's parking lot.

Shannan Gilbert's death is 'undetermined' In a recent case where a man named Johnson was convicted of strangling a prostitute and he said she died for some unknown reason in his car, the ME, also said her death was 'undetermined'. She was only in the ground for a month and a half. Johnson admitted to taking her body and burying it. He was in trouble before but feared the wrath of his wife if she found out he was with a prostitute. And so he buried her. He said he didn't strangle her, she just died. Drug addicts have a way of doing that. The jury chose to believe the DA even though no cause of death was issued by the ME. In another case where they had an informant testifying against my son in law, a 29 year old male known to mainline Ketamine and take up to 30 vicodin pills each day, his cause of death was undeterminded, or at least two months after he was found dead at 31. Maybe that was because they put him on probation and was on probation before the trial in 2006 and remained under their care and supervision on probation. Somehow the probation department never found a trace of drugs in his body when he showed up for his schedluled appearances. He died in early 2009.

Funny thing about this guy is he communicated with me on the Internet and Emails. I really had no beef with him because he was afraid to go to jail. The terrorized him into telling lies. I warned him that unless he changed his ways and seeked help he would be dead in less than two years. He would either OD or he would crash his car, or some such accident, but he would be dead. He beat my prediction by a 1/2 a year.

You see, the DA seems to get 'undetermined' causes of death when it suits their agenda. I believe the Gilbert case is such a case.

BTW, those Bozos that call themselves M.E.s in suffolk county couldn't ID the four dead gals, their bodies had to be sent to the NYC ME for ID.

These awful people are hiding something, no doubt in my mind. I believe there is something they fear getting out that would embarrass somebody in high places, either directly of indirectly with these gals or other gals in the business.

Ask someone if it isn't true that a now high ranking police offical wasn;t charged with burglary, unlawful imprisonment when he left a prostitutes home in a drunken stop and when he realized he left his gun behind went back and kicked in the door and held the prostitute until the police were called.

Ask yourself if the 'rumor' is true that one day when he was on patrol he secured the services of a street walker and passed out after finishing his foray with the gal. Ask if it is just a rumor or if it is true that after the cop passed out the prostitute cuffed him with his own cuffs and took his gun to the local precinct for safekeeping. Ask if his reputation is not that of a person that regularly secured the services of prostitutes, either by his force of authority, and if they refused he outright raped them. Rumor, perhaps, but where there is a lot smoke there is usually a fire.