The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

[NCTeacher]

Please explain what charges were unrelated? Because RH committed these things that very same day..and Prosecution had to explain just WHAT RH has been doing that connects those dots.

Def. advocates constantly want to separate behaviour as inconsequential...However is RH's case.. His Aberrant behaviour ( Sexual Additional behaviour) had been around long before Cooper was even born! But his behavioural history is very much part and parcel of why he felt compelled to "Forget" his son within 180 seconds of bucking up and kissing that child!!

RH is mid 30's//He's no senior who could forget such a face to face with their child (grandchild).. RH has no senior "Forgetful moment" like seniors can....

I guess, you just cannot accept there are people out there who actually are incapable or putting their kids ahead of them..and that's your propagative....Unfortunately in my lifetime experiences in my mode of work..I learned to recognize "Dissociative Behaviours"..and very much understand it!

RH will not WALK Free after this trial..as he did go way beyond all social norms acceptable in the 21st Century... Children unfortunately never seem to be deemed as equal to adult s when it comes to justice. Slowly making headway..but certainly NOT equal even tho Kids are totally vulnerable :shame:

People just want to argue. That's all.

I called the election at 9:30 Tuesday night based on the evidence I was seeing of voting behavior/stats (I analyzed county by county the entire night). I'm calling this verdict tonight: malice or hung based on what has happened during the delibs. Let's see if I'm right

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Please explain what charges were unrelated? Because RH committed these things that very same day..and Prosecution had to explain just WHAT RH has been doing that connects those dots.

Def. advocates constantly want to separate behaviour as inconsequential...However is RH's case.. His Aberrant behaviour ( Sexual Additional behaviour) had been around long before Cooper was even born! But his behavioural history is very much part and parcel of why he felt compelled to "Forget" his son within 180 seconds of bucking up and kissing that child!!

RH is mid 30's//He's no senior who could forget such a face to face with their child (grandchild).. RH has no senior "Forgetful moment" like seniors can....

I guess, you just cannot accept there are people out there who actually are incapable or putting their kids ahead of them..and that's your propagative....Unfortunately in my lifetime experiences in my mode of work..I learned to recognize "Dissociative Behaviours"..and very much understand it!

RH will not WALK Free after this trial..as he did go way beyond all social norms acceptable in the 21st Century... Children unfortunately never seem to be deemed as equal to adult s when it comes to justice. Slowly making headway..but certainly NOT equal even tho Kids are totally vulnerable :shame:

Lets just agree to disagree. There's nothing I can say that will change your mind about this subject.

I do stand by my post that the State used unrelated crimes to affect the outcome of this trial. JMO

 

[GA_Peach]

It was all interconnected, imo. "Accidentally' forgetting his son was his extreme method of making a new life for himself... A way towards freedom from a job and marriage that he hated. From a life that he was bored with and felt trapped by.

If he was a sociopath, and I believe he might be, then being a grieving single father, traveling around giving speeches about child safety , and being an expert sharing his tragic experiences, would be an ideal life. :sigh:

BBM

And if Ross is acquitted on all charges he will have succeeded. Cooper is gone. Since Cooper no longer kept there, LH divorced Ross. Ross's last obstacle to his completely free life is jail.

I don't have answers to your questions, but:
(Watch from 54:00 to 55:10)

Car door starts to open at 4:15:59 pm.
Car door shuts at 4:16:03 pm.
Car starts moving at 4:16:06 pm.

It took him only 4 seconds to move the lightbulb bag to the passenger seat (was it was on the driver's seat?), place his laptop bag on the passenger side, sit himself down, and close the door. He is very fast at getting outta there.

It's odd to me that it took Ross less than seven seconds to get situated in the afternoon, but it took him 30+ seconds to gather his things in the morning.

]Nope I don't think it was his greatest fear because he never said that.[/B] But I do believe he knew all he needed to know to either prevent a hot car death (he has a very heightened sense of their existence) or create a false one. And I know that because he told us all the information needed to make that assumption, no assembly required.

ETA I'd love to have any dessert with you over tea, as long as we don't discuss the trial together lol....

Psssst the cookies are pretty darn good Tho

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BBM

Actually, Ross did say that it was his biggest fear. He stated that in his interview with Detective Stoddard.

 

[NCTeacher]

Now can anyone tell me what happened to Ross's laptop bag when he entered the car at the end of the day? It was on his hip, did he:
a) not look into the car at entry, keeping it on his hip thereby sitting on it when he entered the driver's seat (I've tried this, hip-level bags get caught under you)
b) not look into the car while tossing the laptop (lightbulbs are one thing, a laptop is another)
c) lean into the car and place it in the center console area (eek!)
d) lean into the car and place it in the passenger seat (eek)
e) lean into the car and place it on the passenger floor
f) remove the bag and uncomfortably hold it in front of him as he sat down and then turn and placed it to his right (eek)
g) remove the bag and uncomfortably hold it in front of him as he sat down and then threw/tossed the laptop in the rightward direction without looking (again, who the heck throws/tosses a LAPTOP?)
h) remove the bag and uncomfortably hold in front of him as he sat down and while staring straight ahead and then just reached to the right and hoped it would land in the seat/floor, console, without looking.

(I just tried f, g, h, in my Honda Odyssey and then my MIL's Hyundai Sante Fe (not a Tuscon, but fairly close)). It was much more comfortable to do them in my van because I step up, but in My MIL's, it made my balance alter slightly and was awkward--you go downward like entering a sedan. It also was awkward and felt forced to not look in the direction I was setting my bag.

It's not exactly scientific because I don't know the size of the laptop Ross had. Mine is a 15.6," I imagine a heavier 17" would be harder to juggle.

 

[GA_Peach]

[video]https://www.facebook.com/11Alive/videos/10153968151355496/[/video]

I missed Ross turning his shoulders the first few times I watched the video of him returning from his car at lunch. I would recommend watching minutes 14:30-17:00 in the above video.

Did the jury watch any other videos on Thursday? Did they have any additional questions?

Watched it multiple times. I don't see what you see. I think the dude is on his phone checking his Whisper app, since he hasn't been able to for over an hour.

He arrived back at 12:45, takes him at least a few minutes to walk to his building, then back to his desk, but he's already sent multiple sexts, including perhaps the photos, leading up to the end of sexting at 1 PM.


Not to mention, makes no sense, imo, that he'd care if someone walked near his car. If he had wanted to make sure no one could see Cooper, he would have parked somewhere else. He would have known it was possible to see Cooper where he parked in the AM, yet over 3 hours had passed,. and no one had.


And, I don't see any reason to believe Cooper was still alive at lunch, no matter the dramatics of the ME on the stand discussing the moot results of a recreation that had zero to do with what affect the rising heat had on Cooper, just for starters.


Also not impressed with the panel's "certainty" about why the jury asked to see this video-- "malice is on the table!!". I think it's just as likely each video and the doll has been about evaluating LE credibility on key points.

In any case , the video seems only to reinforce standing opinions on guilt. Doesn't change my mind about what happened at lunch snd I truly don't see any evidence he cared about someone walking near his car.

Did you watch the enhancement in the above video (my OP)? Prior to that video, I had never seen Ross turn back toward the car. It's very disconcerting IMO.

Does anyone have a link to the enhanced video they can share?

The link is at the top of this post. Right around minute 15:30

 

[GA_Peach]

Now can anyone tell me what happened to Ross's laptop bag when he entered the car at the end of the day? It was on his hip, did he:
a) not look into the car at entry, keeping it on his hip thereby sitting on it when he entered the driver's seat (I've tried this, hip-level bags get caught under you)
b) not look into the car while tossing the laptop (lightbulbs are one thing, a laptop is another)
c) lean into the car and place it in the center console area (eek!)
d) lean into the car and place it in the passenger seat (eek)
e) lean into the car and place it on the passenger floor
f) remove the bag and uncomfortably hold it in front of him as he sat down and then turn and placed it to his right (eek)
g) remove the bag and uncomfortably hold it in front of him as he sat down and then threw/tossed the laptop in the rightward direction without looking (again, who the heck throws/tosses a LAPTOP?)

IIRC, Ross's laptop bag ended up on the passenger seat floor. This was documented in the CS photos. Isn't it crazy that Ross was able to position both his laptop bag and the light bulbs without looking to the right?

 

[Paige SC]

When you look at it that way, it sounds like they rehearsed their stories ahead of time and I'd been really doubting that Leanna had anything to do with it after all when I thought she had for many months.

FWIW, the video is what exonerated LT from the suspect pool once I watched it.‎
‎
Her behavior isn't what I would consider "typical" of someone who just learned their baby was dead, but it wasn't disingenuous or insincere either. There's no way she could have been consciously involved in some grand plan to kill her son in such an extremely depraved, tortuous way. She's got issues for sure, but she's not a baby killer.

So while her behavior was a bizarre reaction and one worthy of a closer look, it was an honest reaction. It's that *something* we detect in others when we know they're being truthful or untruthful. Our intuition picks up on things our brain might overlook.

By the flip side, RH displays all the 'normal' reactions one might anticipate, but they're hollow and lack authenticity, believability. Totally forced and aware.

The KEY difference between the two is stark. One has a hyper sense of self in both actions and verbal communication. The other is completely unaware of self. Non-awareness is impossible to fake. ‎

So when people say "Oh, everyone reacts differently to trauma, etc," The point is, people don't have to react a certain way in order to be believable - or not.

 

[NCTeacher]

IIRC, Ross's laptop bag ended up on the passenger seat floor. This was documented in the CS photos. Isn't it crazy that Ross was able to position both his laptop bag and the light bulbs without looking to the right?

Yes! I just went outside (I live next to my in laws) and since everybody is outside howling at the moon tonight (except me because I'm sleuthing), I did a little experiment which I followed with a post edit I felt awkward and had to force myself from naturally turning my neck and looking to the right to set my bag down. I would not do that in a natural state with a laptop bag, and I imagine most people would be the same.

 

[NCTeacher]

If I'm ever on a jury and they do a poor job explaining the charges I may be inclined to vote not guilty on that fact alone. JMO

Really? I found Judge Staley's explanation very clear and I was only half listening because I was lesson planning. I understood, for the first time in the trial, that the child cruelty charges went with the felony murder, and I don't find the listing confusing either. But maybe that's because I'm a teacher used to looking at indecipherable things and figuring out what they mean. Is there a teacher on the jury? lol

 

[Paige SC]

I just watched that video. Not that I ever had any doubts about his guilt, but I totally believe he was waiting to see if the passerby was going to detect CH. Knowing he was being video recorded, he used his phone's forward facing camera to check behind him.

Here's what I know: These aren't a panel of Casey Anthony clown-jurors and they are doing their due diligence. The fact they requested to view this piece of evidence is amazing to me, especially since WE didn't even pick up on all the details. We have the privilege of discussing this case and viewing the videos as many times as we want.

So WHATEVER decision they come to, I'll fully accept and respect it, even if I don't agree with it. They've earned my respect for sure.

 

[NCTeacher]

I just watched that video. Not that I ever had any doubts about his guilt, but I totally believe he was waiting to see if the passerby was going to detect CH. Knowing he was being video recorded, he used his phone's forward facing camera to check behind him.

Here's what I know: These aren't a panel of Casey Anthony clown-jurors and they are doing their due diligence. The fact they requested to view this piece of evidence is amazing to me, especially since WE didn't even pick up on all the details. We have the privilege of discussing this case and viewing the videos as many times as we want.

So WHATEVER decision they come to, I'll fully accept and respect it, even if I don't agree with it. They've earned my respect for sure.

Could they ask to see it again, or up close, or on slow motion? Or are they only allowed to see it in the format presented as evidence?

 

[Paige SC]

Could they ask to see it again, or up close, or on slow motion? Or are they only allowed to see it in the format presented as evidence?

I really don't know but even unenhanced I think their monitor is pretty large. Not sure about slow mo, etc., but seems like since it's evidence they could dive deep. Shame they don't have video capability in deliberation room.

 

[TexMex]

I love you folks.

But lying to women for sex doesn't mean that you want to kill your first born /only son /only child.

Jmo

Btw. The female that told Ross that her bf owes her $1000 ; Probably told ross that with the hope that he gives her $1000 because of a drug related boyfriend that supposedly took money from her.

So imo. ROSS AND THESE LADIES WERE LYING TO EACH OTHER FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

The lying...
IMO Ross was tired of the stress his double life was causing him. His words were "breaking point". His choice was, in his mind:
Quit lying to LH, stop the sexting, the , getting teens to send him pics, stop meeting randoms for sex.
The result would be: staying married for Coopers sake. Staying with LH who doesn't do it for him sexually. Feeling less than a man. With a wife who treats him like a child and who he feels worthless as a man with in bed

The other solution to his breaking point is to stop lying to his self. To be his true self. His sex addiction escalates and he believes his true self is the guy who wants to drink and f lots of girls.
The result of this choice he sees as freedom. No wife to answer to or lie to. No wife or child to support or let down if he fails at his job or the bedroom. He can pursue his life on his terms.

So IMO he chose to do this horrible thing to his son to stop the lies, the stress of living the double life.

 

[minor4th]

I watched the enhanced video - even in slow motion. I'll say this, he was walking weirdly and he stopped/hesitated 3 different times. Try as I might, I could not discern a head or body turn, but I couldn't rule it out either. Maybe he hesitated to look at something or maybe he was just distracted by his phone while walking. So basically, nothing definitive can be determined from that blurry and grainy video. IMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I always wonder how a juror can take evidence/testimony from the State and other evidence/testimony from the defense about the same events or facts and then come to a conclusion of guilt.

It always seems like a conflict of evidence to me.

Criminal Law

302. Evaluating Conflicting Evidence

If you determine there is a conflict in the evidence, you must decide what evidence, if any, to believe. Do not simply count the number of witnesses who agree or disagree on a point and accept the testimony of the greater number of witnesses. On the other hand, do not disregard the testimony of the greater number of witnesses, or any witness, without a reason or because of prejudice or a desire to favor one side or the other. What is important is whether the testimony or any other evidence convinces you, not just the number of witnesses who testify about a certain point.

I like to weigh the evidence given. Some I give little weight,some I give a lot.

Sometimes a bunch of very low weight evidence showing guilt is not enough to overcome reasonable doubt. Sometimes a single piece of heavy weight evidence does overcome the reasonable doubt hurdle.

When I see conflicting testimony, I look at the quality of the evidence, and not the quantity. Did RH premeditate the murder of his son? I see conflicting testimony. The quality of evidence showing premeditated murder is lacking in my opinion.

https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/300/302.html

 

[arkansasmimi]

Vinnie is a drama queen and often wrong. IMO

Also, I think the state didn't zoom it in because it doesn't show that Ross turned his head or looked back. In fact, Stoddard essentially conceded that point at one of the pre-trial hearings.

Just jumping off your post.
Agree, Stoddard essentially conceded on somethings, he did it after sitting in the courtroom hearing testimony from experts. Like the smell of decomp... Both Mr. Sanders from HD IT Security, AND the Enhancement Witness on Cross, each conceded that he didn't turn his head same thing with RH head not going below the top of car. < Stoddard conceded to that too, again after hearing expert witnesses testimony.

Thing about the "turning vs not turning"... they have his phone and the times on the video which were both suppose to be factual times and match up. So they could see very well what he was doing if posting - I mean at those times, or had just posted. JMHO he would be stopping to type or read maybe. Even if just one post time wise would show something of movement. JMHO I don't think we have good enough video to show turn or not, too grainy. IF it were visible, then the State and the Def would have it clear. It just isn't able to, even with the Expert Enhancement Witness that was paid big bucks. jmho

How any of us can see anything different from a grainy copy or an enhanced video/photo (that is transferred from a video player to tv then online- sorry that has to distort some from the orig) If the individuals looking at the stuff first hand can't see how it it that anyone else sees anything... unless they unconsciously are looking and wanting to see it? SS from a video sometimes also blurrs the orig image (different than the frame by frame from orig video) JMHO

Vinnie is a drama king for sure, jmho. And do you ever see a show that anyone goes with the Def? If so they are usually over ranked/talked by someone for the State. Does not matter which case or program. It just doesn't sell. TV/news whatever emotion sells, the more heart wrenching the more it draws. It is horrible and would seem cold and all other kinds of adjectives to go against the State (would be considered victim bashing)

 

[Rayemonde]

I have skipped a few days of class so I may be repeating some of what has been said. I apologize if that is the case.

[video]https://www.facebook.com/11Alive/videos/10153968151355496/[/video]

I missed Ross turning his shoulders the first few times I watched the video of him returning from his car at lunch. I would recommend watching minutes 14:30-17:00 in the above video.

Did the jury watch any other videos on Thursday? Did they have any additional questions?

At 11.27 in the video, you see him pause again, just before he walks out of camera shot. This is after the other man has passed the car.

Did LE make any effort to find the man who walked past RH in this video? They could have asked if RH said anything to him as walked past, and if he noticed anything odd about RH'S demeanour.

Personally, I think he's looking at his phone. You clearly see his hand go up when he pauses, bringing his phone up towards his face to look at it. I think he would have walked in exactly the same way if there had been no one else there.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I finally had time today to watch Kilgore's closing.

This part (23:40 to 23:55) made me LOL.
"Listen, it was a regular day. He worked, he went to meetings, he texted, he went to lunch, he sexted. He did the things he'd normally do during the day!".

LOL because 'normal' people don't sext while working. Wait. Do they?


[video=youtube;WP0OWEgTnBc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP0OWEgTnBc[/video]

RBBM.
Kilgore was talking about was was normal for RH, not anyone else. Anyone else doesn't matter here. By Kilgore saying this, it is same things he did everyday (I am not including leaving his son in car, because as far as any evidence to that we have seen none presented or even alluded as factual to him doing that) If the Jury has any suspicions if that is true or not - they have at least 1 huge box with binders for each of those ladies they brought in as witnesses with the text/chat/whatever social media with time stamps. They State more less conceded that that was his daily routine as well. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

GA,

I JUST WATCHED THIS PRIOR to coming on tonight. I am in a complete flood of fury towards that man right now!!! I've tried to remain objective throughout, and have been on malice since the defense presented its pathetic case.

On this video: it looks to me in the zoomed up version that he stops, turns to the right watches the man (both the investigator and Vinnie see this and point it out) , then Ross moves forward a few paces, stops again, gets his phone up in classic selfie style, and DURING THE CLASSIC SELFIE STYLE turns again to the right at the man (Vinnie and investigator do not detect this one),then moves forward, puts down phone.

It's really hard to see that second (or is it third?) turn to the right in the selfie position, but I'm 95% confident I'm seeing another turn to the right. WHY DIDN'T THE PROSECUTION PRESENT THIS IN ZOOMED FORMAT??? If I was on the fence, I would be no longer.

After watching this video, in full zoom, I have decided that if he gets malice--which I believe even more now he will given the jury's reaction during this video according to people in the courtroom, I will be traveling to Ross's sentencing on behalf of Cooper.

Do we think sentencing will be held in Cobb? I swear someone said that the judge determines sentencing in GA, and if so, it makes most sense for it to be held in Cobb.

On the Sentencing, Phil Holloway opinion was that they would do that in Cobb county, no reason to keep all the players in Glynn County for that, expense and every other reason. So per his opinion and it does seem reasonable, that any sentencing will be done back home. I think it a pretty much sealed deal on the sexting unless something really crazy happens there. And on the Sentencing there is that Motion to Quash still hanging ...JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Someone asked about if a mistrial if they would retry and could they do the DP if so. JMHO>>> they excluded the DP in this trial and it is very clear as to why. DP have a higher burden to prove (JMHO from watching and reading and rightfully so can't unkill someone later but can release from jail if need) And JMHO no they wouldn't attach the DP if retried (unless they had some more evidence that was very solid) JMHO this case was overcharged that why they have so many various charges... AND the law had already changed when they went to Bond/Probable Cause Hearing 7/3/2014. They are using charges and sentences at the time of the death, and those will all most likely be challenged (charges have already, sentences will be) JMHO