The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[songline]

I personally don't think KC or the A's had any connection to the foundation people prior to the disappearance.I think they were opportunists who saw a local case going national and their "foundations" and supporting companies could get more exposure,free publicity,more money. It's crossed my mind the foundations may be part of some money laundering scheme,but again,I think they saw the disappearance of a local child,making big headlines,as an opportunity . Everyone connected with the "foundations" told the A's what they wanted to hear and "supported" them to keep the relationship .
If the defense uses the scenario you just wrote they will have to show some kind of proof: phone records,witnesses,something that would tangibly link KC or the A's to some shady people.There would be evidence on the phones that were suppoenaed or the computers.Even if there were phones we don't know about KC would have to help JB find SOME evidence to make a connection.Otherwise it's just a fairy tale.
KC owes the dead the truth and if it doesn't happen it's on her!

Pings will never answer all the questions. They just wont.
I know that you think these foundations are innocent. I do not.
I think it is either Casey talks or hopeful will go down.
I do not want Caylees death to go unpunished.
Her new lawyer in my book has no conscience, if no body pays for this baby's demise.
What sickens me is the Anthony don't have a conscience either.
That is my opinion.

 

[Brini]

The decomp science didn't say the body was IN the car 2.5 days.The air samples showed that at the time the body was in the car it was at approx 2.5 days decomposed.It could have been else where for the first day or so.I don't believe the body was in the car at all when it was dumped at Amscott.

I don't either. I think KC unloaded the body, then sought to unload the car.

 

[butwhatif?]

Then, who's your choice of SODDI? For whom would KC lie or keep silent, thus sacrificing her liberty, or even her life?

She knows to whom she "gave the baby." There is no reason to "protect" Caylee now? Why did she drive with the baby's body in the trunk, lying about the source of the smell?

If it was somebody else, why is she keeping silent?

Firstly its is speculation that she drove around with the body in the trunk, unless you can tell me where in the docs it states unequivically that there was caylees decomp in there.(i've read them all , and know its not there).

IMO, She's not protecting anyone but herself and her poor choices that could have led to caylees death.(neglect, not being attentive and always watchful of where caylee was).
She's a pathalogical liar....never liked to admit her many faults and did everything in her power to protect her secrets....long before caylee went missing, and even before caylees birth, although it was clearly escalating over the years.
i have already stated that if it wasnt kc (and I certainly havent eliminated her, since I've posted many theories on how she could have done this), then the SOD would be an SO.
Remember GA saying that Caylee could open the sliding door to their backyard by herself? If KC was upstairs, or busy online, caylee could have walked into the yard to play and was snatched by a lurking pedo. We know SO's stake out houses, and focus on the ones with childrens toys, of which their where many in their yard. The location was ideal, since their are no houses behind the A home and it is isolated. (see my post from few days ago re: the SO who lives opposite the school and could have accessed the house and the dump site without any witnesses through the woods). It could have even been one of this guys pedo pals.
The open sliding door would give the SO opportunity to enter the garage to collect the trash bags, duct tape and laundry bag etc.
So going with this scenario, lets say KC comes downstairs and finds Caylee missing...she does a quick search, tries to call CA and GA to see if they know where she is, but cant get through to them...and realises how much she's gonna be in when they learn caylee has vanished on her watch.

So she goes into cover-up mode. Her priorty wasnt finding or protecting caylee, but protecting herself from the 'you're a bad mum and its all your fault' speech.
Alternatively, she could have found a dead caylee (at the hands of an SO) in the yard or garage, and did what she felt she had to do to avoid the judgement of her family and friends....Dump Caylee and give herself time to come up with a plausible story: ie the imaginary nanny that makes her look less culpable. ie: "she's someone I really trusted, and had never done anything to hurt Caylee before"

Look at the mcCaan case. They made poor choices that led to maddys abduction. But they werent like KC....they told the truth, and admitted their carelessness, and neglect because they cared more about their daughter than the critisism that they would get for sedating their kids and leaving them alone while they dined.
But KC is not like them, or many other people.
KC knew that even if she called 911 people would still blame her(particularly her family) since it was her neglect and immaturity that gave an SO opportunity to take caylee.
Lets not forget that KC is still lying about who caylees dad is. Her life and liberty are not at stake for that, but she continues the lie because thats just what she does, and always has.
JMO

 

[countzero]

We are not in a court of law so we can say whatever we please. She is only considered innocent IN A COURT OF LAW until she is proven guilty. There is no DIRECT evidence against Casey. There is onlyi circumstantial which is usually much stronger than witness accounts.

Thank you for saying it before I did.

Also we don't know at this point in time if the LE does have direct evidence and has not yet released it.

I am seeing this thread being closed quickly because of the sides being taken and each thinking theirs is the correct one.

 

[Brini]

Where I'm coming from is someone who has followed true crime cases for over 30 years and observed many, many criminal trials.

I'm saying that the defense definitely can obliterate the forensics - if they come up with the right strategy - it has been done in many, many trials by many, many defense teams. Will they accomplish it in this case? I don't know. Some defense teams have managed to accomplish this, others have failed. Some have done it on a scientic basis, others have done it using logic. Who can ever forget the closing arguements of the OJ case when Johnnie Cochran said "If the glove don't fit, you must aquit." With that one moment (and OJ having tried on the glove and it didn't fit), Cochran destroyed the prosecution. It didn't matter to that jury what LE, the forensic labs or the FBI put together for that case. The prosecution and every bit of their very credible forensic evidence was completely and totally obliterated in that jury's mind. Might a moment like that occur in Casey Anthony's case? It is very possible.

Anyway, the way that the defense handles the forensics will make the trial very, very interesting. The thing about forensic evidence is that it is surprisingly open to interpretation. Two forensic scientists looking at the same piece of evidence may reach two completely different conclusions. If the defense can show enough disparity between the interpretation of the data by the FBI/LE vs. their expert witnesses, or the jury finds the defense witnesses more credible or even more likeable, the defense will bring about reasonable doubt. But, as we have seen with the OJ trial forensics can be demolished by other means than science by a talented defense team. And between Linda Baden and Andrea Lyon, Casey now has a very formidable defense team.

To me, Casey's guilt or innocence doesn't really enter into a discussion of the defense's case. Defense attorneys could care less if their clients are guilty or innocent. The goal is to demolish the prosecutions case in any way that they can.

If you want to know my personal opinion, having read all the documents released by defense and listened to all the interviews and seen all the videos of Casey with her family, in my opinion, it looks like Casey is guilty. But as an American citizen, legally, I have to say that Casey is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Therefore, I cannot go around saying that Casey is guilty until she has been tried and convicted no matter what the prosecution evidence shows. And juries have surprised me before and voted not guilty for defendants that I had thought it would be impossible NOT to convict having sat through the whole trial. One very striking case is that of Candace Montgomery a pretty amazing case where the defendant was not only provably guilty with direct evidence against her, but admittedly so and she also admitted to taking action to cover up her part in the murder, yet the defense demolished the prosecutor's case and the jury returned a stunning Not Guilty verdict - it's a great read:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/betty_gore/1_index.html

Just peripherally.. it was the State's fault that OJ got away with the glove trick.

I demonstrated that SAME trick, using one of my own gloves.

All you have to do is spread the bones of your hand, while putting it on. Pull mightily and... voila! The glove doesn't fit!

 

[MissJames]

I also have a question. Two people here disputed my reasoning that it is not unreasonable to think that someone else had a key to Casey's car and said that no one else has a key to their car. So from that I have to assume that these two people are storing their car keys in some unusual way to make sure nobody else has access to them.

In thinking of Casey, she lived with her parents and her mom owned the car, so it's not unreasonable to think her mom might keep the spare set of keys to the car that she owned. However it's also possible that Casey kept them somewhere else. People will put their spare car keys in any number of places from a drawer at home to some kind of hide-a-key. In addition, there is any number of people who could have gotten access to Casey's keys since she was spending the night at various people's homes - some of which had multiple residents.

In thinking of my own car key situation, I would say the following people could easily get access to my car keys if they wanted to as I usually keep them either in my purse or on the kitchen counter with the second set in a drawer or with my husband:

my husband
my housekeepers
repairmen who work in my house
all my friends
all my husband's friends
my house sitter
people at parties at my friend's houses
clients
business vendors
all of my husband's co-workers
all of my employees

So, my question to the people who say no one else could possibly get access to your car keys, is this: Where are you keeping them that you are so certain of this? Perhaps you could share some good advice as to how to protect car keys. I've never had my car keys stolen, but I must admit, we did lose the extra key for one of our vehicles and never did find it.

I bet the defense is getting a lot from this thread.
I have a key on my keychain and my husband has one on his keychain.
The prosecution will be able to closely date when Caylee's body was dumped by her house.It will be before KC dumped her car.Unless the defense can come up with real proof I just don't think a SODDI defense will fly.Maybe there will be a hung jury the first time,but with the case the SA has I just don't think they will get 12 jurors to agree she is NOT GUILTY.The state of FL will retry until KC is convicted,if necessary.One or two jurors believing ANY DOUBT is reasonable doubt will not get KC aquitted.
Again,and I think this is important.........THE DEFENSE WILL NOT GET 12JURORS TO AGREE KC IS NOT GUILTY!
It might only take one juror for a HUNG jury,but it takes 12 to AQUIT. NEVER HAPPEN!

 

[MissJames]

Pings will never answer all the questions. They just wont.
I know that you think these foundations are innocent. I do not.
I think it is either Casey talks or hopeful will go down.
I do not want Caylees death to go unpunished.
Her new lawyer in my book has no conscience, if no body pays for this baby's demise.
What sickens me is the Anthony don't have a conscience either.
That is my opinion.

Are you replying to my post? I never mentioned pings and haven't followed them at all.I also am pretty firm that the foundations are hinky and took the opportunity to USE the Caylee is missing issue.It was local and it was going big time.I have always [as many of my posts in other threads] felt the foundations were anything but innocent.I don't think the A's had a connection to them BEFORE Caylee went missing. Like finds like and the A's fit the bill for the foundation folks.

 

[Brini]

Pings will never answer all the questions. They just wont.
I know that you think these foundations are innocent. I do not.
I think it is either Casey talks or hopeful will go down.
I do not want Caylees death to go unpunished.
Her new lawyer in my book has no conscience, if no body pays for this baby's demise.
What sickens me is the Anthony don't have a conscience either.
That is my opinion.

I doubt that the A's had any contact with these foundations, before Caylee disappeared. I agree that they are trying to exploit the situation.

But, did they kill Caylee? Doubt it.

There are no Byzantine plots. KC just didn't want to be tied down.

 

[Brini]

I bet the defense is getting a lot from this thread.
I have a key on my keychain and my husband has one on his keychain.
The prosecution will be able to closely date when Caylee's body was dumped by her house.It will be before KC dumped her car.Unless the defense can come up with real proof I just don't think a SODDI defense will fly.Maybe there will be a hung jury the first time,but with the case the SA has I just don't think they will get 12 jurors to agree she is NOT GUILTY.The state of FL will retry until KC is convicted,if necessary.One or two jurors believing ANY DOUBT is reasonable doubt will not get KC aquitted.
Again,and I think this is important.........THE DEFENSE WILL NOT GET 12JURORS TO AGREE KC IS NOT GUILTY!
It might only take one juror for a HUNG jury,but it takes 12 to AQUIT. NEVER HAPPEN!

That's the bottom line.

 

[countzero]

That's the bottom line.

Amen to that, or as my dad use to say "RIIIIIGHT ONnnnnnnnn!

 

[MissJames]

Firstly its is speculation that she drove around with the body in the trunk, unless you can tell me where in the docs it states unequivically that there was caylees decomp in there.(i've read them all , and know its not there).

IMO, She's not protecting anyone but herself and her poor choices that could have led to caylees death.(neglect, not being attentive and always watchful of where caylee was).
She's a pathalogical liar....never liked to admit her many faults and did everything in her power to protect her secrets....long before caylee went missing, and even before caylees birth, although it was clearly escalating over the years.
i have already stated that if it wasnt kc (and I certainly havent eliminated her, since I've posted many theories on how she could have done this), then the SOD would be an SO.
Remember GA saying that Caylee could open the sliding door to their backyard by herself? If KC was upstairs, or busy online, caylee could have walked into the yard to play and was snatched by a lurking pedo. We know SO's stake out houses, and focus on the ones with childrens toys, of which their where many in their yard. The location was ideal, since their are no houses behind the A home and it is isolated. (see my post from few days ago re: the SO who lives opposite the school and could have accessed the house and the dump site without any witnesses through the woods). It could have even been one of this guys pedo pals.
The open sliding door would give the SO opportunity to enter the garage to collect the trash bags, duct tape and laundry bag etc.
So going with this scenario, lets say KC comes downstairs and finds Caylee missing...she does a quick search, tries to call CA and GA to see if they know where she is, but cant get through to them...and realises how much she's gonna be in when they learn caylee has vanished on her watch.

So she goes into cover-up mode. Her priorty wasnt finding or protecting caylee, but protecting herself from the 'you're a bad mum and its all your fault' speech.
Alternatively, she could have found a dead caylee (at the hands of an SO) in the yard or garage, and did what she felt she had to do to avoid the judgement of her family and friends....Dump Caylee and give herself time to come up with a plausible story: ie the imaginary nanny that makes her look less culpable. ie: "she's someone I really trusted, and had never done anything to hurt Caylee before"

Look at the mcCaan case. They made poor choices that led to maddys abduction. But they werent like KC....they told the truth, and admitted their carelessness, and neglect because they cared more about their daughter than the critisism that they would get for sedating their kids and leaving them alone while they dined.
But KC is not like them, or many other people.
KC knew that even if she called 911 people would still blame her(particularly her family) since it was her neglect and immaturity that gave an SO opportunity to take caylee.
Lets not forget that KC is still lying about who caylees dad is. Her life and liberty are not at stake for that, but she continues the lie because thats just what she does, and always has.
JMO

JMO but we don't know at all what happened in the McCann case.We don't know yet if Maddie was abducted or not.The parents have stated they were close by and kept checking on the kids.To me ,that always sounded like they felt they were being diligent in watching the kids.I've never gotten the impression they thought they were neglectful. [I think if Yuri had been the detective we have a lot more info,one way or another]
There doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything in the McCann case,unlike the Caylee case.
KC quit talking to LE once JB came aboard,so we really have no idea what she's saying now.
eta: I have no opinion about the McCann's guilt or the abduction theory.Just not enough evidence.

 

[nephers]

I have a key on my keychain and my husband has one on his keychain.

Sorry to snip so much of a good post but I had to reply...

I know this is off topic and will be removed shortly after I hit submit but had to reply...

That's how the keys are in my house. One day I was getting ready for work and couldn't find my keys anywhere. I thought I had lost them, and my sexy man was at work. We chatted and after he looked in his pocket, twice, he realized both set of keys were on the table touching each other and he grabbed both thinking they were one set. I thought I was losing my mind b/c I know I saw them earlier in the day!

To make this on topic, crazy things can happen with keys...

 

[songline]

I doubt that the A's had any contact with these foundations, before Caylee disappeared. I agree that they are trying to exploit the situation.
The As did not kill Caylle, and Haleigh Cummings Dad is not getting a foundation nor does anyone else, it seems to me they set one up much later in the process - GA either knew them before somehow, or was contacted for a reason. I don't have all the details, But I am not digging my head in the sand. it smells all the way to NY

But, did they kill Caylee? Doubt it.

There are no Byzantine plots. KC just didn't want to be tied down.

Casey did not want to be tied down as many girls here in NY don't, their parents take the kids and asta la vista. Not sure Casey did it, but Casey put Caylee in danger, and she better talk or rot.

 

[MissJames]

Casey did not want to be tied down as many girls here in NY don't, their parents take the kids and asta la vista. Not sure Casey did it, but Casey put Caylee in danger, and she better talk or rot.

What do you think she can say that will help her?She has lied so much that just talking won't help,she will have to come up with real proof.REAL PROOF

 

[panthera]

The decomp science didn't say the body was IN the car 2.5 days.The air samples showed that at the time the body was in the car it was at approx 2.5 days decomposed.It could have been else where for the first day or so.I don't believe the body was in the car at all when it was dumped at Amscott.

I still believe she put Caylee in the yard, then removed her to the car trunk and eventually put her where she was found. IIRC, that would follow the timeline of the body being approx. 2.5 days decomposed between 6/16 and when Casey borrowed the neighbor's shovel. However since the thread is about SODDI, I can't figure out who would've had access to her car during that same period of time. :waitasec: MOO

 

[Kentjbkent]

Just peripherally.. it was the State's fault that OJ got away with the glove trick.

I demonstrated that SAME trick, using one of my own gloves.

All you have to do is spread the bones of your hand, while putting it on. Pull mightily and... voila! The glove doesn't fit!

Ah...but if you believe Mike Gilbert, who was OJ's sport agent and member of his "inner circle", the reason the glove didn't fit is because his defense attorneys came up with the brilliant plan to advise OJ to QUIT taking his arthritis medicine for several weeks before the trial so his hands would be swollen. Prosecutions mistake was not considering that OJ was taking arthritis medicine!!

(Mike Gilbert wrote a book about why he now KNOWS OJ committed the murders...interesting read!)

 

[songline]

I bet the defense is getting a lot from this thread.I have a key on my keychain and my husband has one on his keychain.
The prosecution will be able to closely date when Caylee's body was dumped by her house.It will be before KC dumped her car.Unless the defense can come up with real proof I just don't think a SODDI defense will fly.Maybe there will be a hung jury the first time,but with the case the SA has I just don't think they will get 12 jurors to agree she is NOT GUILTY.The state of FL will retry until KC is convicted,if necessary.One or two jurors believing ANY DOUBT is reasonable doubt will not get KC aquitted.
Again,and I think this is important.........THE DEFENSE WILL NOT GET 12JURORS TO AGREE KC IS NOT GUILTY!
It might only take one juror for a HUNG jury,but it takes 12 to AQUIT. NEVER HAPPEN!

Good reason to close this thread now. and Archive it.

 

[songline]

What do you think she can say that will help her?She has lied so much that just talking won't help,she will have to come up with real proof.REAL PROOF

NO mo BS - right on - she will have to give someone up that can be proven.

 

[butwhatif?]

JMO but we don't know at all what happened in the McCann case.We don't know yet if Maddie was abducted or not.The parents have stated they were close by and kept checking on the kids.To me ,that always sounded like they felt they were being diligent in watching the kids.I've never gotten the impression they thought they were neglectful. [I think if Yuri had been the detective we have a lot more info,one way or another]
There doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything in the McCann case,unlike the Caylee case.
KC quit talking to LE once JB came aboard,so we really have no idea what she's saying now.
eta: I have no opinion about the McCann's guilt or the abduction theory.Just not enough evidence.

Yes, it goes to show how important the investigation process is...but even with the parents as the number one suspects in the maddy case they still looked at the known SO's in the area at the time....and still are.

I have no definate opinion of their guilt or innocence, (and its so off topic....sorry) I was really just trying to highlight how a parents negligence can lead to a childs death....and then no matter what they say or do, they will still be viewed as the parties responsible.....and KC would not want that happening to her, because she wanted to be viewed as a great mum, and without fault.
But we know KC was not always watching caylee closely. She allowed her to be unattended on a balcony in front of all of her friends, so imagine what she was like when no-one was watching.

 

[countzero]

What do you think she can say that will help her?She has lied so much that just talking won't help,she will have to come up with real proof.REAL PROOF

Let's not forget about the "script" she claimed she had when she changed her story to JBP as the place where Caylee was taken from. Where is it, who saw it and why doesn't LE have it? Hummmmm ..... another fabrication of the SODDI.