The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[ZubenElSchemali]

Respectfully snipped and bolded

(Red by me)

...No, this is not as I remember this "Fact." As I remember it, it was definitly iidentified as human, but it could not be determined if the dead human was kc or Caylee based on the dna pressent....There is no evidence of anyone but kc being the killer of Caylee. If you know of any, please... bring it forth. Otherwise, where working on SOD's here, not reinventing evidence already on the table.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say the words "possible human" means definitely. I assume you are referring the the air sample which will likely be tested and challenged in court. As for the DNA and hair, only bodies +90 days PMI have a black band and those with a less than black band have been found to be on live people and less than 90 days PMI, according to what I've read in studies. So I wouldn't call that positive PROOF of a dead child in the trunk. I haven't even read a statement that it was a very fine hair like found on a child, compared to an adult hair yet. I'd like to see what Cindy's hair looks like under a microscope, or mine for that matter, since I'm in my 50s just like the live control person that was in the study. Maybe I have a lighter colored "death band" Last I knew I wasn't immortal. As for the dog alerts, that is one area I don't know enough about, as far as what can give false alerts. If these dogs are so well trained and dogs have unlimited or nearly unlimited ability to alert without error then this could be the only strong circumstantial evidence they have. If it depends on the particular dog and the person holding the leash then it will be open to question and assessment.

 

[RR0004]

We can agree to disagree on the missing thing. If she wasnt missing what were all those searchers looking for?

In the places they were looking, I would assume the body of a deceased child.

 

[Gaia713]

I don't either. I think KC unloaded the body, then sought to unload the car.

I couldn't agtrr with you more
I c

 

[cecybeans]

I'd say the insistence on "incontrovertible" versus "likely" forensic evidence is part of what is being called the "CSI effect" which, due to the proliferation of various crime shows, is making the public in general believe that this evidence is the only relevant factor in cases (perhaps because it seems less circumstantial than other evidence). Some researchers believe that its effects are beginning to alter the public and juries in terms of establishing burden of proof. Jurors are often polled now to see if they watch such tv crime shows to see if it may have altered their expectations. Often DNA and other forensic evidence is expected to be offered even when not relevant or necessary. Others argue that it is also affecting criminal minds, and murderers are going to much greater lengths to cover up or destroy forensic evidence.

All circumstantial evidence, whether forensic or not, is not meant to hold the argument of guilt on its own, but is part of a chain that works together to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. DNA and other scientific evidence is not perfect or 100% accurate always, but it still offers a very strong argument when available and when added to other facts. Reasonable doubt is not complete absence of doubt and it may be that the so-called CSI Syndrome is creating unrealistically high expectations as to what "reasonable" should be.

 

[SoSueMe]

Respectfully snipped and bolded



I don't think I'd go so far as to say the words "possible human" means definitely. I assume you are referring the the air sample which will likely be tested and challenged in court. As for the DNA and hair, only bodies +90 days PMI have a black band and those with a less than black band have been found to be on live people and less than 90 days PMI, according to what I've read in studies. So I wouldn't call that positive PROOF of a dead child in the trunk. I haven't even read a statement that it was a very fine hair like found on a child, compared to an adult hair yet. I'd like to see what Cindy's hair looks like under a microscope, or mine for that matter, since I'm in my 50s just like the live control person that was in the study. Maybe I have a lighter colored "death band" Last I knew I wasn't immortal. As for the dog alerts, that is one area I don't know enough about, as far as what can give false alerts. If these dogs are so well trained and dogs have unlimited or nearly unlimited ability to alert without error then this could be the only strong circumstantial evidence they have. If it depends on the particular dog and the person holding the leash then it will be open to question and assessment.

I do strongly believe in the cadaver dogs and their ability to detect decompositon. You not only have the cadaver dogs, but you have quite a few people who have smelled that odor before who will testify to what they smelled in KC's trunk.

 

[Phumi]

Respectfully snipped and bolded



I don't think I'd go so far as to say the words "possible human" means definitely. I assume you are referring the the air sample which will likely be tested and challenged in court. As for the DNA and hair, only bodies +90 days PMI have a black band and those with a less than black band have been found to be on live people and less than 90 days PMI, according to what I've read in studies. So I wouldn't call that positive PROOF of a dead child in the trunk. I haven't even read a statement that it was a very fine hair like found on a child, compared to an adult hair yet. I'd like to see what Cindy's hair looks like under a microscope, or mine for that matter, since I'm in my 50s just like the live control person that was in the study. Maybe I have a lighter colored "death band" Last I knew I wasn't immortal. As for the dog alerts, that is one area I don't know enough about, as far as what can give false alerts. If these dogs are so well trained and dogs have unlimited or nearly unlimited ability to alert without error then this could be the only strong circumstantial evidence they have. If it depends on the particular dog and the person holding the leash then it will be open to question and assessment.

my bold...

You are seriously over-simplifying the results of hair banding studies with this statement. The report I believe you are referring to was studying banding in addition to other changes including fungal growth. The results indicated that dark banding PLUS the presence of certain fungi SUGGESTED a PMI of greater than 90 days. If you have a source that says dark banding definitively means PMI of greater than 90 days, I would like to see it--and you might send it along to the FBI, too.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd say the insistence on "incontrovertible" versus "likely" forensic evidence is part of what is being called the "CSI effect" which, due to the proliferation of various crime shows, is making the public in general believe that this evidence is the only relevant factor in cases (perhaps because it seems less circumstantial than other evidence). Some researchers believe that its effects are beginning to alter the public and juries in terms of establishing burden of proof. Jurors are often polled now to see if they watch such tv crime shows to see if it may have altered their expectations. Often DNA and other forensic evidence is expected to be offered even when not relevant or necessary. Others argue that it is also affecting criminal minds, and murderers are going to much greater lengths to cover up or destroy forensic evidence.

All circumstantial evidence, whether forensic or not, is not meant to hold the argument of guilt on its own, but is part of a chain that works together to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. DNA and other scientific evidence is not perfect or 100% accurate always, but it still offers a very strong argument when available and when added to other facts. Reasonable doubt is not complete absence of doubt and it may be that the so-called CSI Syndrome is creating unrealistically high expectations as to what "reasonable" should be.

I agree with you completely. The thing is once this case gets to court, it's anyone's game regardless of what the evidence shows. Defendants can be found Not Guilty despite monumental evidence against the defendant and even a confession, if represented by a great defense team with a great strategy. Andrea Lyon is a formidable opponent in the courtroom. Anything could happen with this trial, IMO.

 

[sumbunny]

I do strongly believe in the cadaver dogs and their ability to detect decompositon. You not only have the cadaver dogs, but you have quite a few people who have smelled that odor before who will testify to what they smelled in KC's trunk.

Including George A.

 

[yolorado]

Show me the investigations into locals SO's, and maybe we could show you some direct evidence linking the crime to them....or maybe we could eliminate them.
Either way we dont know, because KC has been the major focus of all evidence gathering from day 31.
Of course the evidence we have points to KC if that is the only person that was thoroughly investigated.
And way before any evidence was released in the investigation of KC, most folks had her pinned as guilty as sin and refuse to even consider alternatives and continue to twist the true facts of this case.
JMO

Whatever path one follows though, it always leads back to KC. KC did not co-operate with the police. She didn't give them any place to start (very likely because she knew her daughter was dead and that there was no real place to start that didn't lead back to her involvement in her daughter's death.) She didn't give them any way to find or protect her child. She gave them nothing but lies and obstruction. She's never given them anything but a bunch of balhooey. If a sex offender was involved, how did Caylee get to the sex offender, or how does KC THINK she got to the sex offender, and what mother WHO HAD NOTHING TO HIDE wouldn't tell? KC has controled the events that have happened to her since whatever happened to Caylee. This is not on the police. It's all on KC. If she doesn't go to jail for a very long time, there is no justice in America, none.

WHAT alternatives has KC ever provided?

 

[Gaia713]

If the decomp smell wasn't in the car prior to KC's dumping it, what was all her business about running over squirrels? She did or her dad did. Somebody did, and she was talking about the smell before the car was found. Hey, I know, maybe somebody put a dead body in the trunk between the time KC took out the gas cans to throw at her dad and when she dumped the car, and KC never noticed the car had been broken into. Maybe she she ran over some squirrels just before or after someone broke in and put the body in the trunk. But if she didn't think there was a problem with her car, why would she dump it? Or if she thought it was squirrels, why not go somewhere and have them removed? Maybe she wanted Cindy to find the car, because she knew Cindy would take care of the squirrels and clean the car, wash her pants, find her purse and put some money in it! Only Cindy wasn't as alert or aware as she'd hoped.

Cept there were no animal remains on the undercarriage of the car. Dead squirrels don't smell like human decomp anyway

 

[Gaia713]

Whatever path one follows though, it always leads back to KC. KC did not co-operate with the police. She didn't give them any place to start (very likely because she knew her daughter was dead and that there was no real place to start that didn't lead back to her involvement in her daughter's death.) She didn't give them any way to find or protect her child. She gave them nothing but lies and obstruction. She's never given them anything but a bunch of balhooey. If a sex offender was involved, how did Caylee get to the sex offender, or how does KC THINK she got to the sex offender, and what mother WHO HAD NOTHING TO HIDE wouldn't tell? KC has controled the events that have happened to her since whatever happened to Caylee. This is not on the police. It's all on KC. If she doesn't go to jail for a very long time, there is no justice in America, none.

WHAT alternatives has KC ever provided?

POlice and defenswe attys have a different definition of cooperation. Defense attys consider it cooperation if their client even says hello to the police. Police mean being honest with them.

 

[RR0004]

I agree with you completely. The thing is once this case gets to court, it's anyone's game regardless of what the evidence shows. Defendants can be found Not Guilty despite monumental evidence against the defendant and even a confession, if represented by a great defense team with a great strategy. Andrea Lyon is a formidable opponent in the courtroom. Anything could happen with this trial, IMO.

So sad to think, isn't it?

 

[RR0004]

POlice and defenswe attys have a different definition of cooperation. Defense attys consider it cooperation if their client even says hello to the police. Police mean being honest with them.

and her lack of honesty happened before she secured representation...so I wonder what her excuse is for then...when it really mattered.

 

[songline]

The As did not kill Caylle, and Haleigh Cummings Dad is not getting a foundation nor does anyone else, it seems to me they set one up much later in the process - GA either knew them before somehow, or was contacted for a reason. I don't have all the details, But I am not digging my head in the sand. it smells all the way to NY

(sorry not sure who the above quote is from)

Just in response to this, all you have to do is go to the main page of WS, then google each case along with the word 'foundation' or 'charity'.

It was a while ago but, I think I found that all but 2 have set up their own foundations (some have multiple foundations), with links for donations, and merchandise for sale. And they dont get slammed the way the A's do. In fact there are a few who are regularly praised on this site.
No different from what most people who have lived through the trauma of losing a loved one to murder do, in order to feel like they are doing something worthwhile to heal themselves and help others.

I wrote that and I do see it as different. Foundations that are clean is one thing. And they are not set up while they are looking for a live person.
Most people do not clean up evidence and lie, lie, lie.

 

[MissJames]

Early on, as I recall, Cindy mentioned that if Casey were going to dump the car it wouldn't make sense for her to do it at Amscott which Cindy drove by every single day going to and from work. Frankly, the Amscott is a pretty public place on a very busy road. The car was parked on the left side next to the dumpster, clearly visible from the road in the large parking lot. Anyone driving by might have seen the car there and it is pretty recognizable with the "bra" on the front. In light of Cindy's comment, interesting that she didn't notice the car at the Amscot, particularily, when she was searching for Casey at the time.

Of course TL also knew where the car was parked since he picked Casey up at the car.

Does any of this mean anything? Probably not. But it just shows another opportunity for the defense to show reasonable doubt. The car WAS out of Casey's possession and control for 3 days.

yes,but the fact that she dumped the car,never went back for it,lied to tl about her dad getting it for her ,and never looked for it after it was towed from Amscott,shows consciousness of guilt.She was distancing herself from that car for a reason.

 

[MissJames]

So sad to think, isn't it?

if JB stays on he will continue to bungle.If the new dp attorney was so wonderful why didn't she file docs with the court before the hearing last week? So far it looks like JB is still running the show.

 

[songline]

Are you replying to my post? I never mentioned pings and haven't followed them at all.I also am pretty firm that the foundations are hinky and took the opportunity to USE the Caylee is missing issue.It was local and it was going big time.I have always [as many of my posts in other threads] felt the foundations were anything but innocent.I don't think the A's had a connection to them BEFORE Caylee went missing. Like finds like and the A's fit the bill for the foundation folks.

No I was not quoting you...sorry...I should have started a separate post.:blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

Technically this is as possible as the body being put in Casey's car after she left the Anthony's on Father's Day.

Do I believe it? No, but it is technically possible.

So, why did she drive a stinking car?

 

[MissJames]

Whatever path one follows though, it always leads back to KC. KC did not co-operate with the police. She didn't give them any place to start (very likely because she knew her daughter was dead and that there was no real place to start that didn't lead back to her involvement in her daughter's death.) She didn't give them any way to find or protect her child. She gave them nothing but lies and obstruction. She's never given them anything but a bunch of balhooey. If a sex offender was involved, how did Caylee get to the sex offender, or how does KC THINK she got to the sex offender, and what mother WHO HAD NOTHING TO HIDE wouldn't tell? KC has controled the events that have happened to her since whatever happened to Caylee. This is not on the police. It's all on KC. If she doesn't go to jail for a very long time, there is no justice in America, none.

WHAT alternatives has KC ever provided?

So true.KC locked herself in when she insisted she left Caylee with ZFG and ZFG took her.Even when her story changed somewhat [if LA is telling the truth] KC continued to use ZFG.She changed from the apt to the park because she could no longer get away with the apt.She could have changed it to a stranger abduction,but then she couldn't explain not reporting the disappearance.

 

[songline]

Differences I see in these cases with missing children and foundations/charities being set-up, is this, plain and simple ...... none of the other families or relatives have alienated the LE and public the way and manner the A's have. The A's have been extremely rude to anyone who dare to question or disagree with them. They have aligned themselves with people who themselves are criminals. Gee, who do ya think people will gravitate towards someone to help? The A's brought this "hatred" or dislike upon them all by themselves. Two videos are worth more than I or anyone could verbally describe as to their behavior.

:clap::clap::clap::clap: