The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[Brini]

Early on, as I recall, Cindy mentioned that if Casey were going to dump the car it wouldn't make sense for her to do it at Amscott which Cindy drove by every single day going to and from work. Frankly, the Amscott is a pretty public place on a very busy road. The car was parked on the left side next to the dumpster, clearly visible from the road in the large parking lot. Anyone driving by might have seen the car there and it is pretty recognizable with the "bra" on the front. In light of Cindy's comment, interesting that she didn't notice the car at the Amscot, particularily, when she was searching for Casey at the time.

Of course TL also knew where the car was parked since he picked Casey up at the car.

Does any of this mean anything? Probably not. But it just shows another opportunity for the defense to show reasonable doubt. The car WAS out of Casey's possession and control for 3 days.

Well, you couple the dog hits with the stink and the DNA.

Add to that the many lies and attempts to mislead LE.

Plus the 31 days.

And, the partying when Caylee was missing.

And, KC driving the stinking car and lying about how the scent of decomposition got there.

Add to that, KC getting sick when the remains were found (when she did NOT get sick when "finds" were thought to have been made at other sites).

Plus the Invisinanny and the non-existent script.

And, you have a total picture that is extremely incriminating.

I suppose one might try to pick apart each item of evidence. But, the picture is mighty compelling. There's no way to explain it all away.

Nor has anyone cited any evidence that points to anyone else. Nor have we come up with any viable SOD.

Finally-- FL isn't CA, and KC is no OJ.

 

[songline]

We don't know what LE has done or hasn't done behind the scenes. I'm sure in an effort to tie this all up in a neat DP package they have pursued many scenarios. Besides, The As had heir trusty PIs tracking people/leads down. Surely they must have come up with something...according to Cindy they're still at it. It'll be interesting to see what they've found.

I also found it interesting that they needed their own PI but to help the search team look for Caylee that they did not need To go out with flyer's immediately that too they did not need. YAP I will believe them when the moon turns purple.

 

[songline]

I agree that is a problem with this theory. Could she have been so afraid of Cindy's reaction that she was in avoidance mode for the entire time?

I said that very early on...But then on LKL CA when asked why didn't Casey report it for 31 days and why did she go to a party?
CA said maybe she was grieving. WELL if Casey was Grieving at that party it sure did not look like grieving at all. and nobody grieves for a live abducted child.
This was a CA Freudian slip... They all know that 31 days was partially due to cover up time.
she can avoid Cindy, but she cat avoid dialing 911.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

my bold...

You are seriously over-simplifying the results of hair banding studies with this statement. The report I believe you are referring to was studying banding in addition to other changes including fungal growth. The results indicated that dark banding PLUS the presence of certain fungi SUGGESTED a PMI of greater than 90 days. If you have a source that says dark banding definitively means PMI of greater than 90 days, I would like to see it--and you might send it along to the FBI, too.

I'm not sure how this is over-simplifying. I've posted the link more than once to the study I am referring to. If anything is oversimplified, I'd say it is the Summary in the FBI report, p. 2504 where it gives no detail at all as to how they are coming to the conclusion that the root shows decomposition. It simply states, "A Caucasian head hair found in specimen Q12 exhibits characteristics of apparent decomposition at the proximal (root end). The hair is microscopically similar to the Caucasian head hear recovered from the Q15 hairbrush, however a more meaningful conclusion can not be reached as this is not a suitable known sample..." That is pretty vague with no hint given as to what is present that brings this person to this conclusion. Although the air test summary includes a lot of detail, including gases present, this portion is void of detail. I guess they just expect the defense to take them at their word without question.

The study I read showed that a post mortem <90 days showed normal root or yellow banding on the proximal ends and no fungal growth. In contrast, >90 days had a hard keratin point, root-banding, or brush-like proximal end and fungal growth. Non of the cadavers with a post mortem less than 90 days had the dark band. The live man that was the control sample had the same proximal end morphology as the sample with post mortem 12 days. The study was concerning surface burials like Caylee. It was conducted by Jamie Hughes Collier and is entitled "Estimating the post mortem interval in Forensic cases through the analysis of postmortem deterioration of human head hair.

 

[Brini]

Couple things to remember:

"Technically" black guys COULD have killed Susan Smith's and Diane Downs' kids. Maybe the evidence that pointed straight to both women was "technically" debatable, in some way.

Technically, maybe satanists DID kill Laci Peterson, and Scott Peterson is innocent.

But, the juries went where the evidence pointed, and convicted all three.

A jury is not likely to say, "Well, the dogs might have been wrong, the FBI crime labs might have been wrong. There might be some good reasons for KC to have lied, obfuscated, and tried to hang the crime on a non-existent person. Maybe KC partied and "Hot Bodied" because she was mourning.

Oh, and by the way-- there is no evidence pointing to anyone else.

But, maybe this nameless "Somebody" did it.

The jury is not gonna be able to choke down that much speculation.

The jury will go where the evidence points-- to KC.

Chris Coleman is trying to go for an unnamed SOD, right now. "Maybe someone sneaked into the house" and killed his family while he was at the gym.

But, only Coleman had motive, method, and opportunity. And, there is NO evidence pointing to a SOD.

So, Coleman is in jail, and likely to be convicted.

 

[songline]

If the SO theory held true then she is still guilty of negligence, hindering an investigation etc...... I totally agree....and she should be held accountable. RIGHT ON!
I'm talking about posters on different forums as well as media who have twisted facts, or stated things as fact when they have not been proven.I'll use the most commonly repeated ones as examples:

statement:human decomposition was found in the trunk.

fact: there was possibly a decompositional event that took place,but unable to eliminate the possibility that it was animal, as opposed to human.And the method they used is still in the experimental phase

statement: chloroform was used by KC on caylee to silence her, or was a byproduct or urine and pool bleach from KC drowning caylee deliberately or accidently.
Fact: traces of chloroform were found in the trunk of the car of which there are several possible explanations.
Statement: KC rode around with a dead Caylee in the trunk for days.
Fact: Nobody saw a dead caylee in the trunk, and human decomp has not been proven, so this remains a theory.

So all of the evidence that is supposedly the most damning is unproven, only possible at best.

And let me state for one last time: I dont think KC is completely innocent and a victim in this....not for a second. I also believe that KC could very well have pulled off the murder and coverup all on her own. I just dont rush to judgement without all of the evidence to make an informed decision.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
And who knows about JB and his strategy.What I do know is he wanted to make a name for himself, and hes done it...just not a very good one.

And what does a shi**y defence have to do with her guilt? doesnt that say more about JB, than KC?

The decomp was Caylee, there was no squirl, and she knows plenty....it is time she starts to talk. but with this new attorney I am afraid she will just walk nd Caylee will have no justice. Her Grndparents will make money off Caylee's name but will not even stank up for her in court. uke:

 

[songline]

If the SO theory held true then she is still guilty of negligence, hindering an investigation etc...... I totally agree....and she should be held accountable. RIGHT ON!
I'm talking about posters on different forums as well as media who have twisted facts, or stated things as fact when they have not been proven.I'll use the most commonly repeated ones as examples:

statement:human decomposition was found in the trunk.

fact: there was possibly a decompositional event that took place,but unable to eliminate the possibility that it was animal, as opposed to human.And the method they used is still in the experimental phase

statement: chloroform was used by KC on caylee to silence her, or was a byproduct or urine and pool bleach from KC drowning caylee deliberately or accidently.
Fact: traces of chloroform were found in the trunk of the car of which there are several possible explanations.
Statement: KC rode around with a dead Caylee in the trunk for days.
Fact: Nobody saw a dead caylee in the trunk, and human decomp has not been proven, so this remains a theory.

So all of the evidence that is supposedly the most damning is unproven, only possible at best.

And let me state for one last time: I dont think KC is completely innocent and a victim in this....not for a second. I also believe that KC could very well have pulled off the murder and coverup all on her own. I just dont rush to judgement without all of the evidence to make an informed decision.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
And who knows about JB and his strategy.What I do know is he wanted to make a name for himself, and hes done it...just not a very good one.

And what does a shi**y defence have to do with her guilt? doesnt that say more about JB, than KC?

The decomp was Caylee, there was no squirl, and she knows plenty....it is time she starts to talk. but with this new attorney I am afraid she will just walk nd Caylee will have no justice. Her Grndparents will make money off Caylee's name but will not even stank up for her in court. uke:

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

yes,but the fact that she dumped the car,never went back for it,lied to tl about her dad getting it for her ,and never looked for it after it was towed from Amscott,shows consciousness of guilt.She was distancing herself from that car for a reason.

You're exactly right. When Casey left the car at Amscot, she was completely convinced that her new, 'beautiful life' had begun and there was certainly no place for anything that car represented.

(Speaking of the car, does anyone remember if it was locked when the wrecker service arrived to tow it to the storage yard? I've searched but can't confirm. TIA to anyone who can help.)

 

[Balthazar]

So sad to think, isn't it?

Yes, it's terrible. But it has happened. I've seen both obviously guilty people go free and obviously innocent people be convicted. Fortunately, it's the minority of cases, but it does happen. The better the defense team, the more likely the defendant will be voted not guilty regardless of the true facts.

 

[Brini]

The SO who duct taped the mouth of the 4 year old and got stuff from her house and put her in the garage on a makeshift "bed" within a few miles of the Anthony house looks like a possible suspect to me. But I don't have enough information about him to rule him in or rule him out. If I were working for Baez, I would investigate this man. But ONLY if this fit with whatever Casey has told Baez - without that information, I would not know which direction to go.

The local SO would be a fit IF what Casey told Baez was that she woke up at home and Caylee was gone and Casey had no idea what happened or where Caylee was, so she panicked and didn't want to face her parents (maybe, especially because of the blowup with Cindy the night before - maybe Casey tells Baez that Cindy threatened "one more thing and you are OUT of this house"), so, being someone who only thinks moment to moment and scared her mom will find out about this "one more thing", she fled the house thinking she could find Caylee. Remember how George said they stayed in Casey's room until noon? What if that was true? What if that was because Casey was trying to wait him out until he left for work because Caylee was gone? At 22, Casey is NOT the most mature person, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that she had done something that makes no sense whatsoever to most people. Afterall, much of what Casey has done over the last few years makes no sense to pretty much everyone. (For example having an illegitimate baby and not requesting child support from the father, stealing from her parents and grandparents and friends, not finishing high school on time. Instead of resigning from work, just not going back in. ) Perhaps emotionally, Casey is more like a 12 year old child. When Caylee disappeared, she thought she could "fix it" before her mom found out. So she maes up lies about going away on a business trip to buy time. Obviously Casey lacks the capacity to think ahead to the logical conclusion of her actions so why would we assume that Casey would respond in a sensible or even logical fashion to the disappearance of her child, particularily with Cindy's threat to throw her out of the house hanging over her head? Anything is possible with someone like this who doesn't think logically and rarely do they ask for help, even when they have the resources and opportunity to do so. Casey may have even found Caylee dead in her trunk and panicked again, tried to cover it up and finally disposed of the body. Or perhaps Caylee was never in her trunk. That part of the evidence is not entirely conclusive.

While to many of us, not calling 911 in such a situation is unthinkable, there are people in our society who don't have enough sense to do that. In this theory, Casey may be one of those people.

Honey, that's TOO much "maybe" for a jury to swallow.

JB doesn't have a KC-provided SOD. He doesn't have an exonerating story. Otherwise, he could either get her out of jail now, or get someone else arrested by the FBI and/or OCSD.

 

[Balthazar]

yes,but the fact that she dumped the car,never went back for it,lied to tl about her dad getting it for her ,and never looked for it after it was towed from Amscott,shows consciousness of guilt.She was distancing herself from that car for a reason.

Actually there is considerable evidence that Casey was attempting to get gas for the car. She asked JG to bring a gas can with some gas, but he was busy, so she got AH to buy a gas can for her, Casey just never got the gas and got back to the car before it was towed.

Before I found out the above, I honestly thought Casey was probably setting her car up to be towed to make it look like a homicide and then she would skip town and Caylee would be found in the trunk of the car dead and everyone would think Casey was kidnapped and murdered, too. But the fact that three people knew that Casey ran out of gas and that her car was at the Amscot because she told all of them and attempted to get gas disproves that theory. The other proof against the skipping town scenario is that she had $1200 of AH's money and access to her car for a week, but she didn't skip town in that car. And later she had access to TL's car for a week, but again, she didn't skip town. If she had skipped town, I would have thought consciousness of guilt, but she didn't do that.

And another thing, as an adult, Casey could have refused to go with Cindy. She could have stayed at TL's apartment and after Cindy had gone, she could have fled. But she didn't do that. Very odd, IMO.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

So.. how did the death banding get onto an A female hair? That technology has been used in court cases all the time, as have the gas analyses.

What caused two different dogs from two different counties to alert on the trunk of KC's car? JUST on KC's car, and one place in the yard.

Could you please direct me to the doc page that says death banding was present?

 

[Balthazar]

You're exactly right. When Casey left the car at Amscot, she was completely convinced that her new, 'beautiful life' had begun and there was certainly no place for anything that car represented.

(Speaking of the car, does anyone remember if it was locked when the wrecker service arrived to tow it to the storage yard? I've searched but can't confirm. TIA to anyone who can help.)

Yes it was definitely locked.

 

[Brini]

I'd say the insistence on "incontrovertible" versus "likely" forensic evidence is part of what is being called the "CSI effect" which, due to the proliferation of various crime shows, is making the public in general believe that this evidence is the only relevant factor in cases (perhaps because it seems less circumstantial than other evidence). Some researchers believe that its effects are beginning to alter the public and juries in terms of establishing burden of proof. Jurors are often polled now to see if they watch such tv crime shows to see if it may have altered their expectations. Often DNA and other forensic evidence is expected to be offered even when not relevant or necessary. Others argue that it is also affecting criminal minds, and murderers are going to much greater lengths to cover up or destroy forensic evidence.

All circumstantial evidence, whether forensic or not, is not meant to hold the argument of guilt on its own, but is part of a chain that works together to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. DNA and other scientific evidence is not perfect or 100% accurate always, but it still offers a very strong argument when available and when added to other facts. Reasonable doubt is not complete absence of doubt and it may be that the so-called CSI Syndrome is creating unrealistically high expectations as to what "reasonable" should be.

Exactly! And, for effect, CSI tends to hinge EVERYTHING on the forensics. The other side of that picture are behaviors that point to consciousness of guilt. And, this we have in great abundance, with KC.

 

[Brini]

The SO who duct taped the mouth of the 4 year old and got stuff from her house and put her in the garage on a makeshift "bed" within a few miles of the Anthony house looks like a possible suspect to me. But I don't have enough information about him to rule him in or rule him out. If I were working for Baez, I would investigate this man. But ONLY if this fit with whatever Casey has told Baez - without that information, I would not know which direction to go.

The local SO would be a fit IF what Casey told Baez was that she woke up at home and Caylee was gone and Casey had no idea what happened or where Caylee was, so she panicked and didn't want to face her parents (maybe, especially because of the blowup with Cindy the night before - maybe Casey tells Baez that Cindy threatened "one more thing and you are OUT of this house"), so, being someone who only thinks moment to moment and scared her mom will find out about this "one more thing", she fled the house thinking she could find Caylee. Remember how George said they stayed in Casey's room until noon? What if that was true? What if that was because Casey was trying to wait him out until he left for work because Caylee was gone? At 22, Casey is NOT the most mature person, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that she had done something that makes no sense whatsoever to most people. Afterall, much of what Casey has done over the last few years makes no sense to pretty much everyone. (For example having an illegitimate baby and not requesting child support from the father, stealing from her parents and grandparents and friends, not finishing high school on time. Instead of resigning from work, just not going back in. ) Perhaps emotionally, Casey is more like a 12 year old child. When Caylee disappeared, she thought she could "fix it" before her mom found out. So she maes up lies about going away on a business trip to buy time. Obviously Casey lacks the capacity to think ahead to the logical conclusion of her actions so why would we assume that Casey would respond in a sensible or even logical fashion to the disappearance of her child, particularily with Cindy's threat to throw her out of the house hanging over her head? Anything is possible with someone like this who doesn't think logically and rarely do they ask for help, even when they have the resources and opportunity to do so. Casey may have even found Caylee dead in her trunk and panicked again, tried to cover it up and finally disposed of the body. Or perhaps Caylee was never in her trunk. That part of the evidence is not entirely conclusive.

While to many of us, not calling 911 in such a situation is unthinkable, there are people in our society who don't have enough sense to do that. In this theory, Casey may be one of those people.

Well, KC is a very prolific phone-caller. And, VERY quick to pick up the phone when SHE needs help.

 

[Balthazar]

Honey, that's TOO much "maybe" for a jury to swallow.

JB doesn't have a KC-provided SOD. He doesn't have an exonerating story. Otherwise, he could either get her out of jail now, or get someone else arrested by the FBI and/or OCSD.

If you believe that, you would be amazed at some of the stories I have seen juries not only swallow, but pronounce an obviously guilty defendant Not Guilty on.

Truth IS often stranger than fiction.

 

[Brini]

She wasnt talking about caylee being 4, but a recent victim of an attempted abduction in orlando by an SO....
ETA: this is a perfect example of how misreading something can cloud your judgement.And how quickly people can rush to judgement even though they are WRONG!

Show me the investigations into locals SO's, and maybe we could show you some direct evidence linking the crime to them....or maybe we could eliminate them.
Either way we dont know, because KC has been the major focus of all evidence gathering from day 31.
Of course the evidence we have points to KC if that is the only person that was thoroughly investigated.
And way before any evidence was released in the investigation of KC, most folks had her pinned as guilty as sin and refuse to even consider alternatives and continue to twist the true facts of this case.
JMO

Lying, refusing to report one's child's "abduction," and driving a car with the dead child's decomp are extremely incriminating behaviors. Not to mention "celebrating" with friends while said child is still missing.

Which SOs should be investigated, and on the basis of what evidence?

 

[Brini]

She wasnt talking about caylee being 4, but a recent victim of an attempted abduction in orlando by an SO....
ETA: this is a perfect example of how misreading something can cloud your judgement.And how quickly people can rush to judgement even though they are WRONG!

Show me the investigations into locals SO's, and maybe we could show you some direct evidence linking the crime to them....or maybe we could eliminate them.
Either way we dont know, because KC has been the major focus of all evidence gathering from day 31.
Of course the evidence we have points to KC if that is the only person that was thoroughly investigated.
And way before any evidence was released in the investigation of KC, most folks had her pinned as guilty as sin and refuse to even consider alternatives and continue to twist the true facts of this case.
JMO

Let's not forget.. the investigators are not just local cops from a Mayberry cop shop. BOTH OCSD and the FBI have been developing this case.

So, we would have to believe either that: 1) Both LE bodies are hopelessly incompetent or, 2) Both state and federal LE are plotting against KC.

 

[Balthazar]

Well, KC is a very prolific phone-caller. And, VERY quick to pick up the phone when SHE needs help.

Except she had SO MUCH to lose, if she called 911 to report Caylee missing.

Her parents would find out she didn't have a job.
She would probably get kicked out of their house.
Her friends would find out she had lied to them.
Without Caylee, Casey had lost her meal ticket at home.
Her new boyfriend, who she was so "in love with" would find out she was a fake.
Her mom would probably take Casey's car back, since Cindy owned it.
Cindy would realize that Casey was out partying when she claimed to be working.
Cindy would realize that Casey took Caylee to some of those parties.
Both parents would realize that Casey was sleeping around.

A self-centered person is going to put themselves first when faced with the option of exposing themselves vs. trying to cover their butt and fix the problem themselves.

 

[Brini]

Could you please direct me to the doc page that says death banding was present?

Will I re-read 650 pages of documents to find the FBI forensic report for you?

No. You can do that, yourself. :blowkiss: