The State Rests in the State v Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #10

[lil_buddy]

And these are the reasons I hope to hear as much psychoanalytics as possible about her during this trial!!

I'm curious as well. I have a feeling, though, that JA's nueropsych tests will come back normal like Anthony & Dahmer... a testament to how worthless neuropsychological testing is which the pros will not own up to. (sorry - This is a very angering issue to me)

 

[lil_buddy]

Actually this is quite untrue. Not every psychopath has had issues with violence or criminal or even conduct disorders as a child.

<mod snip> that statement is so far from being right it's wrong.

As far as I know the Hare Psychopathy Checklist is the standard.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist"]Hare Psychopathy Checklist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
If this is incorrect, please educate me.
Thanks!!!

 

[zoey]

Tell him we're your "peeps", and we "have your back". Then tell him he'll be required to perform certain "duties" like "crime re enactment", making dinner during "verdict watch", and most importantly.... Hold you while you cry for the victims.

I'm sure you can even find recipes here as well. I know during focal trial crockpots were highly used

 

[dgfred]

Was a roll of duct tape found in the bedroom or bathroom? Or anywhere else in the house? How much of a coincident is it that Travis had all the weapons to kill him right in his own bathroom.

How convenient for Jodi that these are all there in that bathroom to defend herself from a naked man confined in a small place.

I'm trying to decide between Travis going along with shower photos. Some of those photos look odd in that there is no real obvious posing being done. It's like he's going along and hope she'll go away, but she does something that scares him and he knows his only way out would through her.

We don't know where the weapons were. Both shot first and stab first they could be anywhere. Take one to bathroom, have to get the other during the attack.

 

[jennapuppy]

I'm sure you can even find recipes here as well. I know during focal trial crockpots were highly used

And, before your hubby comes home from work, spray Pledge or Pine Sol to make it seem like you've been doing housework!

 

[Sulamith]

Do we even have proof they had sex? We assume they had sex by what she is saying and what he wrote but there is no real evidence they actually had sex from what I have read. I would think if they did she would have had more control over him threatening to use it against him with the church.

If she had no problem killing him I don't see a problem with blackmailing him. But, then again, that may be how she got his car. And it may also have something to do with him not reporting her breaking into the house. She could have had him over a barrel whether it was true or not.

I don't think they had sex the night she was there because she would have made sure she got a picture of him. Pictures she took prove nothing other than they were naked.

It is so unfair to accuse a victim without proof when they cannot speak up for themselves.

Good point LambChop regarding no evidence of them having sex. I read somewhere that the Prosecution had pics of TA in an "excited" state which I read as an erection. (Can't remember where I read this) but he was not going to enter those pics into evidence. Still, if there were pics like that, it still does not prove vaginal intercourse.

On the other hand, IMOO, if JA wanted to blackmail TA, the nude pics would have been enough to get him into deep trouble with his church leaders. Even Masterbation is not allowed in the Mormon church. Nude pics are worse, to the church.

Just for reference LDS.org has a talk on the dangers of kissing, so IMO, JA had enough "goods" on TA just from the nude photos.

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2001/06/speaking-of-kissing?lang=eng

 

[kscornfed]

IMO she abandoned the two intruders scenario only after she had lawyered up and realized that self defense was the only way she could get in any negative evidence about Travis and hopefully make enough of an impression to avoid the death penalty.

Maybe she will take the stand and be questioned about all of this. Not that she will tell the truth ....

i think you're onto something here. the intruder story was so ridiculous, no way they could stick with that. plus, her just leaving and saying nothing and then lying makes her look even worse. with self defense, they can dirty up travis and paint HER as victim.

oh, the story she will have if she takes the stand.....i really want this to happen.

 

[dgfred]

Good point LambChop regarding no evidence of them having sex. I read somewhere that the Prosecution had pics of TA in an "excited" state which I read as an erection. (Can't remember where I read this) but he was not going to enter those pics into evidence. Still, if there were pics like that, it still does not prove vaginal intercourse.

On the other hand, IMOO, if JA wanted to blackmail TA, the nude pics would have been enough to get him into deep trouble with his church leaders. Even Masterbation is not allowed in the Mormon church. Nude pics are worse, to the church.

Just for reference LDS.org has a talk on the dangers of kissing, so IMO, JA had enough "goods" on TA just from the nude photos.

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2001/06/speaking-of-kissing?lang=eng

Well there was the KY Jelly stuff on the bed.

I'm thinking there are several pics that LE has not released to the public.

 

[dgfred]

i think you're onto something here. the intruder story was so ridiculous, no way they could stick with that. plus, her just leaving and saying nothing and then lying makes her look even worse. with self defense, they can dirty up travis and paint HER as victim.

oh, the story she will have if she takes the stand.....i really want this to happen.

But when your 1st story is you were not there. They show you that you were- you change your story.

You try your 2nd story along with some information you have figured out from the investigation. They show you that it can not be true- you change your story to self-defense.

I don't see how to glean what is true and what is not from somebody that can continually lie... and seems to enjoy it. She lied to everybody all the time.

 

[manzana]

Am I the only one who does not think this looks like Jodi?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Look at the photo of Travis laying in the shower. His left side (leg going up and over) up against the lip of the shower. That is the same as the photo taken outside of the shower showing Travis's lower left side and leg against the lip.

What is the distance from the hall where Jodi cut his throat back to the shower? Was Jodi's hand print going toward the hall or the back to the bathroom?

I'd think that socks would give you a better purchase on tile than shoes. Maybe she didn't want to leave and shoe prints?

 

[minor4th]

Look at the photo of Travis laying in the shower. His left side (leg going up and over) up against the lip of the shower. That is the same as the photo taken outside of the shower showing Travis's lower left side and leg against the lip.

What is the distance from the hall where Jodi cut his throat back to the shower? Was Jodi's hand print going toward the hall or the back to the bathroom?

I'd think that socks would give you a better purchase on tile than shoes. Maybe she didn't want to leave and shoe prints?

There was one shoe print in the blood but I have always wondered if it could have been from the room mate who went in and found him. Maybe that wouldnt have made that kind of shoe print though with the blood being dried. IDK

I think the hall connecting the bathroom and bedroom is 12 feet.

 

[KMouse]

I'm sure you can even find recipes here as well. I know during focal trial crockpots were highly used

Plus nobody cleans as fast or runs errands as fast as WSers during court recess.

 

[kscornfed]

But when your 1st story is you were not there. They show you that you were- you change your story.

You try your 2nd story along with some information you have figured out from the investigation. They show you that it can not be true- you change your story to self-defense.

I don't see how to glean what is true and what is not from somebody that can continually lie... and seems to enjoy it. She lied to everybody all the time.

which is why i want her to testify and tell THIS version. who could believe a word she says? NOBODY! my eyeballs may get stuck in the back of my head from rolling them so much if she testifies.

 

[spcagrl]

Is is possible he was shot between the two 'seated' shower pics?

I like it! I am most likely way off base but in looking at the "seated" shower pic.....I keep seeing discoloration up at the top of the inverted V formed by his right leg. I do not know if it is just the bad lighting but the shower is WHITE. I know the drain is under him somewhere but am not convinced that the entire darkness under him is ALL drain edge.

 

[gitana1]

:waiting: Ya know...some of us (me, me, me) were attempting to lull ourselves into a (false) sense of security until a certain verified attorney came along to burst our bubble. :biggrin:

I keep telling myself they're just being thorough - it's a capital case, yada, yada, yada but it still doesn't fit my brand of logic. She admits to killing him so how does anything extraneous even matter to them? Like you, I have just seen way too many 'pretty' petite women get a vastly reduced sentence (if any at all) so I am uneasy.

I think I'll continue to be until I hear a guilty verdict. This isn't to detract from the bang up job I believe Martinez has done either - sometimes, and it seems especially so when the defendant looks a certain type - the jury is seeing a totally different trial altogether. That too defies logic.

Well, just because I'm a lawyer doesn't mean my fears are founded! If I was trying this case and heard those jury questions I would be very upset and worried. But it is true that it's also the casey anthony verdict that has me gun shy - I was so confident in that case - as well as comments I have seen essentially inferring that Travis was a creep and asked for it in some way.

arias is attractive or would have been to most people. We see her as plain and evil-looking now because we know who she is. But, she has a fairly nice figure, nice hair and even features. Not a bombshell, but better than average. Attractive people fair better in trials.

She is also very soft-spoken and gentle-sounding. And there are apparently, many people out there who distrust or dislike men because a creep or two broke their hearts.

The combination of ALL of these factors has me worried.

...he also mentions in his "who he would like to meet" section,that he would like to meet really anybody except for "",they're a dime a dozen.I also watched the "picture perfect" documentary for the first time today and I was pretty shocked how his friends sat him down and told him Jodi was not welcomed at their place anymore simply because she was affectionate with him.IMO at that point he should have stood by her instead he took the relationship underground meanwhile looking for girls that are marriage material and not "".I do understand Jodi's pain,I wished she would have been strong enough just to walk away but instead she became more obsessed and it turned into the horror we all know about.
I don't think there's anyway the defense has a chance with that ridiculous self defense.Anyone should see that she was not defending herself.As far as was the knife or the gun first,IMO definetely the stab in the heart since that's where she was hurt herself.I think her saying "if" she would have killed Travis she would have shot him until he was dead speaks volumes because I believe she kept stabbing him and he was still alive and at some point she probably realized how horrific that is and how much faster it would have been had she shot him first.
She will be convicted.I HOPE !!!!!! Please,not another Casey Anthony ,I crinch if I imagine both of them desire to have children,Casey an "irish" kid and Jodi a little boy named "Alexander".......

First of all, his "" comment sounds like something I have heard men I know say after they have been used or strung along or teased by certain women. Over and over again.

Second, jodi being affectionate was NOT the reason Travis' friends banned her from their home.

Good Morning Everyone!:seeya:

I see some are still worried about the outcome of this case. I understand that due to other women getting off or getting very little time in comparison to same like crimes males do but I am still very optimistic.

I have been reading about some of DA Martinez cases and the more I read the more I am assured that Travis is going to get the justice he so richly deserves. It seems Mr. Martinez is well known for being his best when in the defense's CIC. He has won cases that people didnt think he could win against powerful defense attorneys and Im sorry but Mr. Numbi isnt one of them, imo. Defense attorneys fear and dislike Martinez because he gives it his all. He is tenacious and like a pitbill when it comes to getting justice for the victims he is the voice for.

In his CA he should put this quote below from the interview up on a large elmo for the jury to see. It speaks volumes imo.

Flores said to her, "one thing I know is that if Travis never met you, he would still be alive" and she immediately said "that's true."

IMO

I think you're confidence is well-founded but I can't help feeling pessimistic at times.

When you think about it though, they responded to exactly the same trial they saw which appeared to be a trial about proving guilt. All the evidence about the scene, the premeditation, the behavior post crime, the interviews. It *appeared* to be a presentation to prove the guilt of the person so I can see how they were sort of lulled in to "forgetting" that the defense had already admitted she commited the crime!

They will be reminded again and again from this point forward including experts explaining exactly WHY Jodi killed him.

It's not the way WE are viewing the trial but we are hashing and rehashing everything and they are just sitting there seeing what they are seeing in the order they are seeing it. I hate to sound "ageist" but my father is 81 and highly intelligent with a PhD but he loses memory items quite a bit. There are some people on the jury who are quite high up in years. I can see the other jury members reminding them in deliberations should they go off on a tangent about guilt vs. innocence "but remember, she admitted to doing it" "oh, that's right".

I'm just not worried about these jury questions but they are interesting. Where this case is going to be tried is in the defense/rebuttal. This CIC was almost like just going through the motions.

I really hope you are right!

OK......well, if some of the jury thinks she had to have help......does not that strengthen premeditation? Have we not heard that premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye? So between switching from knife to gun, or gun to knife, cannot premeditation have been formed? if she stabbed him first, he might have been able to live if he had gotten help. She decided to kill him......AGAIN! If by some medical miracle he was shot first and managed to struggle up to the sink, she had to decide to kill him.....AGAIN!

I just think premeditation is PROVEN. Whether she had help or not, and whether she shot or stabbed him first.

Dumb question........is she pleading NOT GUILTY by reason of self defense?

Yes. She is stating she is not guilty of murder because self-defense is a defense to murder. If she had the reasonable belief that she had to kill him to survive, it would not be murder.

I have to say one thing I wish Martinez had done differently at the end of his case is with that last witness (Udy, Jodi's friend), instead of showing her naked photos of Jodi and asking "do you know this person?", I wish he'd shown her crime scene photos asking "is the Jodi you know capable of slashing someone she's loves throat like that?".

So what she's naked in a photo...that says a whole lot less than showing her KNOWN "handiwork" to her "friend".

Just wish he'd done that instead.

In his redirect, he would not ask open-ended questions (never good when you can avoid them because you want to control the flow of questioning as much as possible). But he could have asked something like, "Well, you never thought she would be capable of viciously butchering your friend, right?"

I'm in agreement with you for a couple of reasons. I posted a couple of days ago that I think the shot came first and heard from some who agree and some who disagree, all making valid points.

While I would LIKE to agree with the ME, I have seen many animals shot and the entrance wound does not bleed much. Yes, close range with a large caliber maybe, but a small caliber, less likely.

What many people are not realizing is just how ineffective a .25 automatic pistol is for what she was using it for. I didn't know earlier that he might have been shot while sitting down. This gives even more weight to the theory that this small caliber--and very lightweight--bullet went in through (maybe) his skull in or near his right eye but lacked the force to exit, thus lodging in his lower left cheek, visible in the x-ray. It never hit anything vital and caused very little damage, mostly to his sinus cavity/palate.

An automatic pistol is usually jammed by what is called "limp wristing". An auto weapon works by using the "kick" of the fired cartridge to force the slide at the top to slam back, opening the chamber and ejecting the spent shell casing and allowing the spring-fed next round to enter the chamber. If the shooter does not keep a firm wrist (common beginner technique), the force is absorbed in the wrist and not passed on to the slide, leaving too small a gap for the spent cartridge to fully eject. The wrist has acted like a shock absorber. Now the spent cartridge is stuck between the slide and the frame, keeping the next round from entering the chamber. Nothing happens until the slide is manually pulled back and the force of the spring pushes the next round up and the spent shell falls out.

She might have realized this after she had mortally wounded Travis with the knife. If she had dropped the gun and used her backup plan, the knife, and later came back to get the gun, then she might have "cleared" the spent casing from the jammed pistol. That would have caused the cartridge to fall onto the floor, and possibly into some pooled blood. In this scenario, you have the shot coming first, but the cartridge coming out AFTER she has already stabbed/slashed him.

Just another theory. I welcome any comments. Enjoying reading all of your posts.

Great post. Thank you so much for the explanation. I think the ME's conclusion might have been off here.

Agree. He might as well have said "well, did you know she was a 'ho?" And I didn't see it, but it sounds from what I've read here like he got agressive with her just like he did with Ryan. I was there for his questioning of Ryan and I didn't like his demeanor with him, so I probably would have felt the same about his demeanor with this witness. He really comes off as kind of an hole sometimes. I realize that's my own personal perception and may not be shared by the jury, just fwiw.

I understand the aggression. It's not that he's trying to be a jerk to the witness. he's trying to emphasize his indignation about what jodi did. But he does need to be careful with that because it can be taken wrong by some.

maybe that shoe print was left by one of the roommates who found his body? i don't know. what i DO know is that his roomies did not like jodi, didn't want her around, were worried about his safety because of her, and would not have assisted her in any way. there's also no evidence she had help.

the answer is adrenalin. she was pumped up. she was superwoman after what she did. you know how mothers can lift a car off their child? she was able to drag him to the shower for that same reason.

Also, we have had posters on her who tested trying to drag their larger husbands around (without adrenaline) and they could.

There is no evidence at all that the roommates were involved. I think they were just young men who were not that fussed about things outside their own world, like the sound of a dog or their roommates schedule or even the odd, bad smell now and then. They are men, not women.

Yeah this photo is really perplexing. I can sortof see why people see a sheet carrying him, but the darkness looks wet, as well, so really could be blood.

What perplexes me is where the camera was when it went off and what caused it to go off? If they were in front of the camera, what pushed the button?

On occasion I have accidentally put my camera on delayed shot. Is it possible she did this and a few of the shots were "clicked" one moment and actually took the photo a few seconds later when her hands were otherwise occupied?

This could definitely be the answer!

Saw this on another site.... not very reassuring... makes sense of why the sudden rest. :dunno:

No, with all due respect, it doesn't at all. That post you quoted makes no sense. No lawyer would just stop his case because he felt a motion for mistrial or directed verdict stood a good chance of succeeding.

Also, this is a pretty slam-dunk case. The state proved first degree, premeditated murder. I see no evidence of anything allowing for a directed verdict or mistrial.

My problem is trusting stupid juries (sorry) and making sure that the state goes beyond what they need to prove because juries make up their own rules.

*What if* the defense decides to just go to closing arguments and argue that the prosecution has never met it’s burden and that there can only be a finding of not guilty as she is charged. I have an uneasy feeling with it being such a long time til they are back in the court room... and with Mr. Martinez resting... just like that.. out of the blue.

The state met it's burden. That would be malpractice on the part of the defense to do that.

Beth Karas states trial hiatus is to give defense more time to prepare its case, that is preposterous, they had four years, I guess they need time to try and pick apart the states case.

I am worried, does anyone know if the defense will ask for premeditation to be thrown out because DT feels the state failed to prove it, hence, this would mean judge would have to consider 2nd degree murder and/or manslaughter charges and LWOP/death penalty charge dropped as well. My heart aches at the thought.

No. The state very much proved it's case. There is no way the judge would find premeditation is lacking. My concern is with the jury, not the judge or the state.

I have a feeling this case is going to become even more explosive with the defense. I think they are going to go for broke, put her on the stand. She'll claim she took the gun from her gparents for protection while traveling. They'll trash Travis,and the overkill will be explained by their experts who will say she has been quite manipulated, denigrated and abused... and the jury just might feel sorry enough for her to spare her life. She'll be found guilty of murder, but it just might be manslaughter or second degree murder...she isn't going to get death.

This is my concern to some degree as well. The state proved its case but juries can be blockheaded. I see too many people commenting on cases like this with a complete lack of logic or any understanding of reasonable doubt or circumstantial evidence (like DNA, blood, fingerprints, etc. - yup - all circumstantial) or who allow their personal emotions about various things cloud the facts. '

So now we are believing what she says? All I know is that the only time she lies is when her lips move.:great:

IMO, jodi believed there might have been a witness, like a neighbor or roommate who heard all or part of the murder. That's because the detective insinuated that someone could have seen her or known she was there. I think she covered her bases with an accurate description of the sounds of that murder: Gun shot first, asking for help, moaning, screaming and a woman yelling at him to shut up.

Liars quite often inject a good bit of truth in their tall tales.

 

[spcagrl]

She could not have shot him and caused the known projectile path of the bullet from the position Travis was found in the shower. For this scenario to be accurate, she would have had to reposition Travis again after he was dead in the shower. Extremely unlikely.

Well, that has to be what happened....she DID get him back in the shower after she finished him off, otherwise there would be no blood spatter at the sink, no pooling blood on the carpet in the bedroom, no blood smeared up and down the hallway. She shot or stabbed him in the shower, he got out, went to the sink, she stabbed him in the back, he went down again and tried to crawl down the hall with her on him stabbing more, then she really stooped him with the throat slash down at the bedroom entryway and dragged him back to the shower. She stuck him in there and rinsed him off before she left. Just MOO but stranger things have happened.

 

[minor4th]

Well, that has to be what happened....she DID get him back in the shower after she finished him off, otherwise there would be no blood spatter at the sink, no pooling blood on the carpet in the bedroom, no blood smeared up and down the hallway. She shot or stabbed him in the shower, he got out, went to the sink, she stabbed him in the back, he went down again and tried to crawl down the hall with her on him stabbing more, then she really stooped him with the throat slash down at the bedroom entryway and dragged him back to the shower. She stuck him in there and rinsed him off before she left. Just MOO but stranger things have happened.

I know that she dragged him back to the shower, but what I was responding to was the people who say he was shot in the shower after she dragged him back and after he was dead. The position he was found in could not have been the position he was shot in. I think it's extremely unlikely that she took a final shot at dead Travis in the shower and then rearranged his body again.

 

[dgfred]

How can she drag him down the hall to the bathroom, but not be able to position him anyway she wanted in the end?

 

[minor4th]

How can she drag him down the hall to the bathroom, but not be able to position him anyway she wanted in the end?

No one said she couldn't, but I find it extremely unlikely that she shot him in the shower when he was already dead and then turned him over on his other side.