the strange marks

[trixie]

I work in TV. We don't have people turn their rings around for the cameras.

THank you, BirdieBoo for the info. Back to the drawing board, I guess!

 

[Britt]

So was Patsy wearing her rings late that night?

From the 1997 police interview:

Tom Trujillo: So you go upstairs, jump into pajamas, go into bed. Did you have to take off your makeup, take off your jewelry? What’s that whole sequence?

Patsy Ramsey: Oh, I probably washed my face, brushed my teeth.

TT: Okay. What’s your normal get-ready-for-bed routine, I guess, is what I’m asking?

PR: Um, take my makeup off. Brush my teeth.

TT: Okay. Take all your jewelry off then?

PR: No, I don’t take them off.

TT: Okay.

PR: Sometimes, I mean, it depends on what I have on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes I don’t, but...

(JonBenét - The Police Files, p. 50)

Interesting how she put that: I don’t take them off.

 

[Becba]

I finally found a couple of sites that explain how the beads are made. These use magazine paper because it is glossy. The kit I remember used thick paper, maybe because it was sturdier for kids to use.



http://www.squiglysplayhouse.com/ArtsAndCrafts/Crafts/PaperBeads.html

This one has a keychain and mentions using construction paper...
http://www.dltk-kids.com/school/paper_bead_keychains.htm

The best pics of beads...
http://www.stampersmall.com/classes/paper_beads.asp

 

[tumble]

Good hunting Becba

I have read somewhere that the marks on the back where somewhat rectangular(a more cylindrical bead). Looking at your links it seems plausible that both roundish and cylindrical bead are possible.And these beads sure have a striped surface matching the marks on JBR.

Here is another link. http://www.greensense.com/Features/Living/Crafts/Paper/beads.htm

this link talks about how to make different shapes and also notes that

They make exceptional earrings because they are so light.

 

[Jayelles]

I think the marks on JBR's neck and back are very strange.
We see from pictures of christmas morning that at least the neck mark was not present.

Normally bruises ages like this:
dark blue/purple
blue
brown
green
yellow

The marks were described as 'rust colored'
Normally brown/green/yellow means that the bruise is at least 18 hours old.
Could it be that those marks were infact from an earlier occation, maybe from the visit to the Whites.

This 'bead making machine' that FW, JR and the children played with at the Whites, somebody knows how that look like?
What kind of beads does that produce?

To me the shape looks very circular, like it could have been produced by a very round object. Like a ballshaped bead.
The boat shape that is clearly visible could come from a bead with a pattern on it, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_beadmaking

My daughter has a craft kit which includes a bead making thing. I don't know if it's in any way similar - but basically, it consists of strips of paper which get wound around a little stick. It's not sophisticated in any way. You glue the start and end of the paper and when the glue is dry, you string them all together. There are many different kinds of paper - so you get different effects from that. The beeds themselves are just little tubes.

As I said - there may be different kinds of bead makers.

 

[Jayelles]

The photo above is only one of the photos which shows Patsy's rings turned inwards. There is another photo in which she is wearing a light blue suit where her ring is clearly turned to the inside. I believe the photo was taken as she and John were leaving the interviews in Atlanta. This photo was the first one we found with her ring turned inwards. Then Wolfmarsgirl found the one above which is a better photo.

From memory, I think the other photo shows Patsy standing beside a car or getting into a car. If anyone else remembers that photo - perhaps they will post it?

 

[tumble]

Have you got any idea why she was wearing her rings like that?
If it was by accident why would all be turned inward at the same time.
If ine turned I suppose you would turn it back again if you didn't want them to sit that way.

Maybe she thought they cought on to things, but then why wear them at all.
Maybe she felt naked without them so the solution was to wear them like that...

And indeed the ring setup in the photo is consistant with the scenario describered by Wolfmarsgils. Very convincing...

Just that the twin marks seem to be a little to far apart. Like she was wearing two rings on her index finger and small finger.
And I would expect a some more bruising on the back from the hands and fingers, but then maybe not if the rings are really pointy and tall.

 

[Jayelles]

Have you got any idea why she was wearing her rings like that?
If it was by accident why would all be turned inward at the same time.
If ine turned I suppose you would turn it back again if you didn't want them to sit that way.

Maybe she thought they cought on to things, but then why wear them at all.
Maybe she felt naked without them so the solution was to wear them like that...

And indeed the ring setup in the photo is consistant with the scenario describered by Wolfmarsgils. Very convincing...

I've had rings which spin round if my hands are cold but I think it would be unlikely that Patsy's giant rocks would manage to spin freely past the adjacent fingers.

So it's an interesting question - why would she turn her stones to the inside? Maybe she liked to fiddle with them? (Some people do have strange habits!).
I twisted my engagement ring by fiddling with my car key!

 

[Blondieskatz]

Maybe the police also thought her rings made those marks. Since they asked about her nightly routine a couple of times in refernce to her jewelry.Tom Trujillo: So you go upstairs, jump into pajamas, go into bed. Did you have to take off your makeup, take off your jewelry? What’s that whole sequence?

Patsy Ramsey: Oh, I probably washed my face, brushed my teeth.

TT: Okay. What’s your normal get-ready-for-bed routine, I guess, is what I’m asking?

PR: Um, take my makeup off. Brush my teeth.

TT: Okay. Take all your jewelry off then?

PR: No, I don’t take them off.

TT: Okay.

PR: Sometimes, I mean, it depends on what I have on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes I don’t, but...

(JonBenét - The Police Files, p. 50)

 

[Eagle1]

I remember bringing this up several years ago, SD, and never got anywhere with it, so I'm glad someone else also thinks they look just like the suspicious marks we're discussing.

In the picture of JBR barefoot, they look like they're healing, don't they? Kids can forget pretty quickly, but she looks completely happy.

Some kind of a game they regularly played?

Or maybe they had some visitor in Charlevoix, who later came to the Boulder house? Maybe just that once, or maybe many times. If he was at the party on the 23rd, where I believe she was molested "because she was so pretty", he apparently didn't have with him whatever made the marks, may have told her to expect another Santa visit after Christmas for that reason.

 

[BBB167893]

"I work in TV. We don't have people turn their rings around for the cameras."

Know anyone looking for talent?

"I havn't seen that pic. Where can I find it?"

NuisancePoster got it.

"Interesting how she put that: I don't take them off."

Yes, it is.

"Maybe the police also thought her rings made those marks. Since they asked about her nightly routine a couple of times in refernce to her jewelry."

I doubt they asked just to make conversation.

"I remember bringing this up several years ago, SD, and never got anywhere with it, so I'm glad someone else also thinks they look just like the suspicious marks we're discussing."

I don't bring it up often.

"In the picture of JBR barefoot, they look like they're healing, don't they? Kids can forget pretty quickly, but she looks completely happy."

It's a beautiful picture, isn't it, Eagle1? Kids are pretty resilient, if it was from anything untoward. She does look happy, much more so than in some of her later pageant pics.

"Some kind of a game they regularly played?"

I don't think I follow you.

"Or maybe they had some visitor in Charlevoix, who later came to the Boulder house? Maybe just that once, or maybe many times. If he was at the party on the 23rd, where I believe she was molested 'because she was so pretty', he apparently didn't have with him whatever made the marks, may have told her to expect another Santa visit after Christmas for that reason."

Hmm. But who? And did anyone else know he was there?

 

[Eagle1]

To answer a question, Did anyone else know he was there, well, probably, one of their well-liked acquaintances. Or, since seeing how PR wore her rings, I'm now getting intrigued by that.

Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?

Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?

The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times? Probably not, right? Sure is a strange thing. In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings.

 

[Eagle1]

There's also some discussion of the strange marks in the "Noise Level in the Ramsey Home" thread, in case anyone's interested in knowing where to find additional discussion.

 

[BBB167893]

"Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?"

I wouldn't put it past whoever it was.

"Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?"

Apparently, not. Remember, in 2000, John was "attacked" by a thief who broke into the house, which was unlocked, and stole her jewelry, at least the cheap stuff. Don't know about the choice bits. (Incidentally, that "thief" story was probably a phony, too. Let's think about this: if your daughter had been murdered by someone who broke into the house and got away because you left the house unsecured, there's NO WAY IN Valhalla or on Earth that you would EVER, EVER leave the house unlocked with the alarm system turned off again! Especially since you've already told people that you wish you HAD secured the place! That's another strike against the Rs, imo.)

"The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times?"

Maybe.

"In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings."

Well, if that was the case, it didn't have to be necessarily anything bad, like a punishment. ST wrote that JB liked having her feet tickled. Maybe (JSB!) Patsy was doing that and she accidentally scratched her trying to hold her leg still.

 

[Eagle1]

Having just read the thread again and looked at the linked pictures, I see the marks seem too far apart to have been caused by a larger and smaller ring.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, that assumes that the early picture has anything to do with the murder.

 

[Toltec]

We know by LHP's testimony that Patsy normally would take JonBenet into her bathroom to discipline her.

Christmas night, Patsy awakens JonBenet to use the toilet...notices the soiled pants in the middle of the bathroom floor, scolds a very uncooperative JonBenet and then Patsy and JonBenet duke it out.

JonBenet could have landed on her pot-holder kit during the struggle, hence the circular marks.

 

[narlacat]

"Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?"

I wouldn't put it past whoever it was.

"Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?"

Apparently, not. Remember, in 2000, John was "attacked" by a thief who broke into the house, which was unlocked, and stole her jewelry, at least the cheap stuff. Don't know about the choice bits. (Incidentally, that "thief" story was probably a phony, too. Let's think about this: if your daughter had been murdered by someone who broke into the house and got away because you left the house unsecured, there's NO WAY IN Valhalla or on Earth that you would EVER, EVER leave the house unlocked with the alarm system turned off again! Especially since you've already told people that you wish you HAD secured the place! That's another strike against the Rs, imo.)

"The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times?"

Maybe.

"In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings."

Well, if that was the case, it didn't have to be necessarily anything bad, like a punishment. ST wrote that JB liked having her feet tickled. Maybe (JSB!) Patsy was doing that and she accidentally scratched her trying to hold her leg still.

Definitely Dave.
As if.
I will never forget that footage of him and her standing out the front of the house getting interviewed about it.
I probably won't forget it because it's one of the only interviews I've seen, we miss alot of stuff being in Australia.
She was flirting with the camera, it was pretty sickening to watch.
They were used to lying their butts off by that stage, they had become experts lol.

 

[trixie]

We know by LHP's testimony that Patsy normally would take JonBenet into her bathroom to discipline her.

Christmas night, Patsy awakens JonBenet to use the toilet...notices the soiled pants in the middle of the bathroom floor, scolds a very uncooperative JonBenet and then Patsy and JonBenet duke it out.

JonBenet could have landed on her pot-holder kit during the struggle, hence the circular marks.

**********************************************************

Yes and Patsy talks abut how incredibly tired she was that night and having so much still to do before bed and having a couple of glasses of wine.......I also noticed when reading in her interview about the size 12 panties that someone posted somewhere here she said something about those panties were suppose to go in a box of gifts or things being sent to Atlanta and "that didn't happen " so Jonbenet ended up with them. So what does this mean? Patsy didn't even send anyone in Atlanta any Christmas presents that year? She was so busy that "That didn't happen", as in the box didn't get sent. WHAT in the world was taking up so much of Patsy's time that she couldn't even get the box of presents sent off to her family members?

 

[rashomon]

**********************************************************

Yes and Patsy talks abut how incredibly tired she was that night and having so much still to do before bed and having a couple of glasses of wine.......I also noticed when reading in her interview about the size 12 panties that someone posted somewhere here she said something about those panties were suppose to go in a box of gifts or things being sent to Atlanta and "that didn't happen " so Jonbenet ended up with them. So what does this mean? Patsy didn't even send anyone in Atlanta any Christmas presents that year? She was so busy that "That didn't happen", as in the box didn't get sent. WHAT in the world was taking up so much of Patsy's time that she couldn't even get the box of presents sent off to her family members?

It seems that Pasty was totally stressed-out and exhausted. And I believe those couple of glasses of wine Patsy had also played a big role in her becoming so violent toward JB. Alcohol can unleash aggression, often driving people to do things they would never do when sober.