The Water Tanks

[Borris]

<rsbm>

ITA ... somebody probably climbed the ladder, took a peek, and said "nope, she's not up here".

JMO

Heh heh. Sharp as a tack sb. Except they weren't tasked with looking for a living person, but a living scent. If a handler noticed a wooden A-frame ladder, wouldn't he lay it down for the dogs to search it? He wouldn't climb it.

But they didn't even do that. Why? Because they said the lid was on EL's tank. And how did they come to know this without actually looking at it?

 

[Myst]

"The decomposing body of Elisa Lam floated inside a water tank..."
(snipped)
"Eventually, the hotel maintenance department investigated the water problem, sending a worker to look into the tank, police said. He saw Lam's lifeless body at the bottom."
(snipped)
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/21/us/california-hotel-water-corpse

The above two snips from the same article are an example of why we, the readers, can get so darn confused.

We're told that Elisa was floating in the tank, and we are told that her body was at the bottom of the tank.

It cannot be both.

I have a hard time believing that the worker saw her body on the bottom of the tank, only because it had to have been dark inside the tank and how could he see all the way to the bottom, even if the water was fairly clear, which it likely wasn't.

IMO.

 

[jetsetsam]

Well, why did the maintenance worker go up to the roof, climb up the ladders, lift the hatch and look into the tank when there were complaints about low water pressure?

To see if something was obstructing the outlet near the bottom of the tank.

Why would he do that?

Because he knew people could access the roof, and might have put something in the tank?

Because there had been an obstruction of the outlet pipe some time in the past?

Because he had heard something about a dead girl in the tank?

To see that far down in the tank, he'd most likely need a flashlight.

 

[findinganatta]

I would think it's standard protocol to check the tanks if water pressure is extremely low within the building. It makes sense that the problem would be at the source. Apparently quite a bit of sediment builds up in the tanks from the city water, which presents a problem if not cleaned enough. Also, it would probably be important to check the flow/level of water, like whether the tanks had water being pumped in properly, etc.

I have a hard time believing that the worker saw her body on the bottom of the tank, only because it had to have been dark inside the tank and how could he see all the way to the bottom, even if the water was fairly clear, which it likely wasn't.

IMO.

snipped

I'm sure he would bring a flashlight when checking a 9 or 10 foot cistern, same as he would if he was checking a deep utility closet.

Regarding the term "floating", I think they were using it as a generic description for an unfixed object within water. I doubt she was laying absolutely flat against the floor of the tank, so both descriptions are accurate in my opinion.
What annoys me is the discrepancies between news outlets about the orientation of her body in the tank. I'd guess the reporters are probably getting the details wrong, though, not the maintenance guy.

 

[jetsetsam]

I read a few news reports that used the term "wedged" in the water tank.

Not particularily helpful either.

 

[Perplexed 123]

I just read this article and I haven't seen it mentioned on this site anywhere. I'm not sure if it fits this thread, but as it's about the water, I'll post it in here, I hope it's the right place!

'They said there was some obstruction to the drain between the third and fourth floor,' Mr Diaz told the Times.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282050/Elisa-Lam-Hotel-guests-drank-water-contaminated-Canadian-tourists-body-weeks.html

 

[Perplexed 123]

Does anyone know if the police tested the ladders, hatches and tops of the water tanks for fingerprints, DNA or other forensic evidence? Although they were exposed to the weather, they may retain some clues?

 

[noodled1]

Does anyone know if the police tested the ladders, hatches and tops of the water tanks for fingerprints, DNA or other forensic evidence? Although they were exposed to the weather, they may retain some clues?

I think you can assume once her body was found in the tank the area was tested/investigated thoroughly. LAPD may not get it right every time but it's not like it's amateur hour either.

 

[Perplexed 123]

I think you can assume once her body was found in the tank the area was tested/investigated thoroughly. LAPD may not get it right every time but it's not like it's amateur hour either.

I just wondered because there seemed to be beer bottles left on the roof, should these also not have been taken for examination? I'm just trying to establish how much they tested, I'm not accusing them of being amateurs

 

[AlphaWolf]

trying to figure out more about the Hotel's water sytsem.

How often do the tanks get checked?...how often are the PH levels tested?

are they Manually chlorinated?...if so how often?

where is the outlet pipe located on the Potable tank?....near the bottom or near the upper level? ( the tank where the body was found seems to have a pump or valve on the top....the other tanks do not)

Obvious question....who is charge of maintaining the tanks?

 

[noodled1]

trying to figure out more about the Hotel's water sytsem.

How often do the tanks get checked?...how often are the PH levels tested?

are they Manually chlorinated?...if so how often?

where is the outlet pipe located on the Potable tank?....near the bottom or near the upper level? ( the tank where the body was found seems to have a pump or valve on the top....the other tanks do not)

Obvious question....who is charge of maintaining the tanks?

Not sure who maintained the tanks. I wonder if there's a company that provides a service like that? seems like it might be a specialized type of thing if they were having to supplement the tanks chemicals? Seems like you'd almost have to have somebody who's somehow "credentialed" to be taking care of drinking water for such a large supply.... Oh great more stuff to google...lol

 

[Perplexed 123]

Not sure who maintained the tanks. I wonder if there's a company that provides a service like that? seems like it might be a specialized type of thing if they were having to supplement the tanks chemicals? Seems like you'd almost have to have somebody who's somehow "credentialed" to be taking care of drinking water for such a large supply.... Oh great more stuff to google...lol

I've had been googling that info yesterday, even examined pictures to see if I could see some sort of 'serviced by x company' or even the suppliers name on the side of the tank in pictures. I came up with nothing, hopefully you'll be more successful.

 

[noodled1]

I've had been googling that info yesterday, even examined pictures to see if I could see some sort of 'serviced by x company' or even the suppliers name on the side of the tank in pictures. I came up with nothing, hopefully you'll be more successful.

aha.. OK

When I get time I'll see what I can find.

Did you try Building maintenance services or? There's got to be a billion of those guys in LA

 

[findinganatta]

I just wondered because there seemed to be beer bottles left on the roof, should these also not have been taken for examination? I'm just trying to establish how much they tested, I'm not accusing them of being amateurs

Those bottles, if you're referring to the same ones as I am, were from a video that was shot weeks after she went missing, and about a week or two after she was found. So it's probably safe to say they may have showed up after the police collected evidence. I'm pretty sure they would have gotten them.

But I too wonder about the fingerprinting of the ladder, tanks, and other areas. Rain could have washed prints away (or some of the surfaces may not pick up prints very well). But otherwise it seems that if Elisa was responsible for her own death, then her prints should show up in some obvious places: the cistern, hatch/lid, ladder, etc. But even if they did not find any of her prints and it DID rain between Jan 29 and Feb 19, they wouldn't be able to rule anything out. I'd also be interested in any other prints they may have found on parts of the cistern, although I would think anyone putting her body there would have the sense to put something on their hands... if not gloves, then just a t-shirt, trash bag material, or something.

 

[Perplexed 123]

aha.. OK

When I get time I'll see what I can find.

Did you try Building maintenance services or? There's got to be a billion of those guys in LA

I came to the conclusion all maintenance work was all looked after in-house by employees.

Eventually, the hotel maintenance department investigated the water problem, sending a worker to look into the tank, police said......................................

The results of the testing showed no harmful bacteria in the tank or the pipes, according to Angelo Bellomo, director of environmental health for the department. Chlorine in the city's water may be the reason it is safe, he said.




I'm just after coming across this article:


Feb 28 Do-not-drink' water order lifted at Cecil Hotel in Downtown Los Angeles where body was found

&#8220;The hotel is now back on water service," Bellomo said. "It&#8217;s somewhat different than before in that the tank that was the location where the body was found is (now) no longer a part of the series of tanks that are conveying water into the building.&#8221;

Although initial tests last week showed the hotel&#8217;s water supply was clean, the department requires that the water system be disinfected, flushed and retested before lifting the order, Bellomo said. That was completed over the weekend.

Those bottles, if you're referring to the same ones as I am, were from a video that was shot weeks after she went missing, and about a week or two after she was found. So it's probably safe to say they may have showed up after the police collected evidence. I'm pretty sure they would have gotten them.

But I too wonder about the fingerprinting of the ladder, tanks, and other areas. Rain could have washed prints away (or some of the surfaces may not pick up prints very well). But otherwise it seems that if Elisa was responsible for her own death, then her prints should show up in some obvious places: the cistern, hatch/lid, ladder, etc. But even if they did not find any of her prints and it DID rain between Jan 29 and Feb 19, they wouldn't be able to rule anything out. I'd also be interested in any other prints they may have found on parts of the cistern, although I would think anyone putting her body there would have the sense to put something on their hands... if not gloves, then just a t-shirt, trash bag material, or something.

So the bottles must not have been there when police checked, would this indicate the the rooftop access is not secure?...even after this tragedy.

 

[findinganatta]

I read a few news reports that used the term "wedged" in the water tank.

Not particularily helpful either.

Oh hell, I was so annoyed by that term when I read it. It implies the reporter knew exactly how the body was put into the opening of the tank--something he/she obviously just made up for dramatic purposes. I was in journalism school (before switching majors) and wrote for some small papers until I realized that the culture of journalism is dishonest and disingenuous to its core. There is an unspoken encouragement of this kind of language play in journalism school... they even teach you about manipulating truth with word choices that are subtle enough to keep you out of any trouble, all under the guise of 'hooking readers in' so more people will be exposed to the 'important' story you're writing. Talk about disingenuous!

 

[jetsetsam]

I've not included the guys name or source of this information:

Maintenance Manager

Cecil Hotel
May 1985 – Present (27 years 11 months)|Greater Los Angeles Area

I am an engineer supervisor, my following duties are: to supervise personnel in the departments such as: Electricity, Plumbing and Paint. As well as any other personnel that is involved with maintaining the hotel in the required standards.

 

[noodled1]

So did some googling and also Manta and searched water tank repair and coatings you'll come up with any number of companies that can service water systems.

That being said I'm thinking as much fun as it might be to know who services water tanks or how the system works I feel it's a dead end to follow because it really doesn't answer anything unless we know somebody was there servicing the tank on the day she went missing.

So I'll leave the water tanks to others to follow and get back to the elevator's workings which I think might have more value. The water tank seems to be the end of the trail for Elisa, I want to look more at the journey to the end.

For the water tank crowd, one point I stumbled across reading LA City fire codes is that one or more of those other tanks were probably devoted to holding water for the fire sprinkler system. Just like they can't pump water up from the street for the showers on the upper floors they can't pump water up for a fire suppression system either. But once again who really cares what the tanks were for, they held water and she was found inside of one.

 

[AlphaWolf]

- Ok..I talked to a engineer for a water/oil refinery plant ( he does work and setup potable water tanks). I asked him about potable rooftop water tanks...and showed him 1 picture of the EL water tank.

- In his opinion, The water was not pulled/pumped from the top of the tank ( into the hotel). He said the copper pipe and pump ( on top of the tank) was likely used to equalize the water levels in both tanks.

- The water outlet ( the location from the tank to the hotel supply) likely was about 6 - 8 inches up from the base of the tank.

- I also asked him about cleaning the tanks, He said it depends on how much sediment gets inside the tanks.....but once a year is standard, 2 times a year if there is alot of sediment.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I've not included the guys name or source of this information:

Maintenance Manager

Cecil Hotel
May 1985 &#8211; Present (27 years 11 months)|Greater Los Angeles Area

I am an engineer supervisor, my following duties are: to supervise personnel in the departments such as: Electricity, Plumbing and Paint. As well as any other personnel that is involved with maintaining the hotel in the required standards.

wow.....