The Whites seek the release of the Ramsey indictment in its entirety

  • #21
...what other charges might the GJ have considered at the suggestion of the prosecution?

We have...

Count 4(a):
"On or between December 25, and December 26, 1996, in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."


Count 7:
"On or between December 25, and December 26, 1996, in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspect of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."

That might leave us with...

Count 1?
Count 2?
Count 3?
Count 4(b)?
Count 5?
Count 6?
Count 8?
Count 9?​

Murder in the first degree is a given. Based upon what we do know, what other reasonable possibilities exist?
 
  • #22
thank you, otg, for yet another factual and logical post. attending otgU is a pleasure!

Also, I should point out, while it seems at first that the emails and letters between White and the DA’s office are being “nit-picky”, all of the back-and-forth between them served a purpose. White is trying to establish several positions and facts that are required before proceeding. These things are detailed in statutes 24-72-301, 302, 303, 304, and 305. The DA’s office probably knows that and is trying to avoid giving him what he needs to proceed. But because of his persistence, White succeeded in getting the information.
exactly
 
  • #23
I'm pretty sure JRs "release it all" stance is Ramsey speak for, "sure release it," believing it will never happen. :dunno:

Exactly, bettybaby:
http://i43.tinypic.com/evdlol.jpg
evdlol.jpg


Haddon et al are taking a big gamble here. It seems they are trying to tie the release of the indictment to the evidence presented to the GJ by pleading for “fairness” in the information made available. But the DA, as custodian of the records of GJ proceedings, did not want to release any information despite the requirement by law of release of “official actions” of the GJ once the indictment was known to exist. The judge cannot order him to release the GJ proceedings. That means that any witness testimony or evidence the prosecutors presented to the GJ will not be released. Haddon would love to have that information, because it would tell them exactly what evidence they had against the Ramseys. But Haddon knows that information is never shared with a suspect until they are actually charged with a crime. Then it is part of the information that has to be turned over to the defendant’s side so they can prepare a defense.

But Haddon does not really want that information disclosed to the public, despite his having stated it in his letter. He knows it will not (cannot) be released. He is simply trying to tie it to the indictment from a sense of “fairness” and “transparency” so that the judge might decide not to release any of it. This won’t happen. This is absolutely essential to the reason for secrecy in the GJ proceedings.
 
  • #24
  • #25
...what other charges might the GJ have considered at the suggestion of the prosecution?

We have...
Count 4(a):
"On or between December 25, and December 26, 1996, in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."


Count 7:
"On or between December 25, and December 26, 1996, in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspect of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."

That might leave us with...
Count 1?
Count 2?
Count 3?
Count 4(b)?
Count 5?
Count 6?
Count 8?
Count 9?

Murder in the first degree is a given. Based upon what we do know, what other reasonable possibilities exist?
Hi, Mama. I once speculated on the possible charges that may have been considered (can't find the post now using our new search function). I made the following list in part using the Thompson GJ True Bills. BTW, I did run across another post that has a lot of information about that case which has some bearing on the release of information in this case as referenced above by cynic (Aarone Thompson).

Here's the list (each charge could also include the additional charge of "Accessory to the crime" and/or "Conspiracy to commit"):

  • Murder in the first degree
  • Felony murder
  • Manslaughter
  • Child abuse resulting in death
  • False reporting to authorities - Providing false information
  • Concealing death
  • Abuse of a corpse
  • Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (Unlawfully and feloniously induced, aided, or encouraged a child to violate any state law namely: False Reporting to Authorities - Providing False Information)
  • Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (Unlawfully and feloniously induced, aided, or encouraged a child to violate any state law namely: Sexual Assault)
  • Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (Unlawfully and feloniously induced, aided, or encouraged a child to violate any state law namely: Incest)

I know you won't agree that the Ramseys were guilty of any of these charges, Mama; and actually, none of us do know and can't say without the evidence the RGJ had access to. But we do know that there were at least a half dozen other charges that were considered by the RGJ. Unless they are made public, they are open for speculation.
 
  • #26
^ Agreed- Thank you OTG- always!
 
  • #27
I'm a little puzzled why anyone (RDI or IDI) would not want the indictment released. There could be vital information that could be relevant to catching either the Intruder or the Ramsey's. I would think that would trump any other issues.
 
  • #28
I'm a little puzzled why anyone (RDI or IDI) would not want the indictment released. There could be vital information that could be relevant to catching either the Intruder or the Ramsey's. I would think that would trump any other issues.

Absolutely true.
 
  • #29
I'm a little puzzled why anyone (RDI or IDI) would not want the indictment released. There could be vital information that could be relevant to catching either the Intruder or the Ramsey's. I would think that would trump any other issues.
I'd like to see a heck of a lot more than the indictments (which were released) and the other charges considered.
 
  • #30
Alan Prendergast doesn’t speculate much in this article as to outcome. Westward article http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/07/jonbenet_ramsey_lawsuit_grand_jury_documents.php But you can bet there are some folks out there watching this. (Charlie Brennan, the HH law firm, AH, Boyles, to name a few.)

Quote from the article from FW:
"We can only assume that there's other stuff in there that one would find in a criminal indictment," he says. "[Boulder District Attorney Stan] Garnett gave all this material to the court. Why would he give them anything that isn't relevant to an indictment?"
 
  • #31
There are several issues here that will affect the outcome of this suit brought by Fleet and Priscilla White.

The first challenge to making the Ramsey Grand Jury indictments public was establishing in court that, even though charges were not pursued by the DA, the charges considered by the RGJ were an "official action". This became kind of a gray area because of the situation created when Hunter refused to sign the True Bills and hid that fact behind the claim of the secrecy of GJ proceedings. Once it was learned that the RGJ did indeed return TBs, Charlie Brennan’s suit for release of the “official actions” of the RGJ was difficult for a judge to deny because of the laws in Colorado. In any event, Judge Lowenbach’s ruling established that they were (with one caveat that I’ll get to later in this post). The CO statutes specifically state that any “official actions” that are maintained by any "criminal justice agency" (in this case, the DA’s office) are subject to public disclosure -- unless there are grounds for denial. Those grounds would be if public disclosure would be “contrary to the public interest”, or if disclosure would violate another conflicting state law or court order (C.R.S. 24-72-305). Once requested, the burden of proof then falls on the custodian of the records (the DA’s office) to prove grounds for denial.

As to what is an “official action”, C.R.S. 24-72-302 defines it as:

(7) "Official action" means an arrest; indictment; charging by information; disposition; pretrial or posttrial release from custody; judicial determination of mental or physical condition; decision to grant, order, or terminate probation, parole, or participation in correctional or rehabilitative programs; and any decision to formally discipline, reclassify, or relocate any person under criminal sentence.

Annotations in C.R.S. 24-72-303 (Records of official actions required - open to inspection) and in C.R.S. 24-72-304 (Inspection of criminal justice records) both specifically address whether a GJ indictment is an “official action” because the issue had been settled in the People v. Thompson case (attached above in cynic’s first post). Those statutes each state:

A grand jury indictment is a criminal justice record of official action presented in open court, the full release of which, save the identifying information of any alleged victims of sexual assault contained therein, is not contrary to public interest. People v. Thompson, 181 P.3d 1143 (Colo. 2008).

The mere fact that an indictment contains detailed factual allegations that would otherwise be subject to grand jury secrecy does not warrant that the indictment be sealed. People v. Thompson, 181 P.3d 1143 (Colo. 2008).Thompson, 181 P.3d 1143 (Colo. 2008).

The only thing in the above statute that I see which may a source of contention is the wording “criminal justice record of official action presented in open court”. Since Hunter didn’t sign and present the indictments in open court as is the normal procedure, he created this hinky, gray area that will have to be determined by a judge.

When Judge Lowenbach’s order (http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li... Release of Official Action of Grand Jury.pdf) was released, I expected the entire RGJ indictment document to be released. But instead he decided to release only the “charges” within the document that were found by the RGJ to be “true bills”. However what I questioned in his ruling was what he stated he felt (in this specific case) was what established them as “official actions” of the RGJ. In his ruling, Lowenbach says that “the only pages that are ‘official actions of’ the Grand Jury are those that are signed by the Foreman of the Grand Jury.” The problem here is that each charge is signed by the Foreman -- either in the space for “A TRUE BILL” or the space for “NO TRUE BILL”. So even though no True Bill was found on the other charges, the charges themselves were actually signed by the Foreman making them (IMO) “official actions” of the RGJ (according to Lowenbach's stated definition).

Some may recall that I had asked a lawyer friend of mine about this specific issue in another thread (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...enet-Ramsey%92s-death&p=10449740#post10449740). That lawyer wrote the following in response to my question:

I do not know why Judge Lowenthal chose to release only those portions of the indictment that he did. There is really not much law in Colorado about the status of grand jury materials when the GJ votes to indict but the DA chooses not to prosecute. He may have felt that the partial release was a reasonable compromise between the competing arguments for total secrecy and total disclosure. But only he knows why he ruled precisely the way he did.

But the issue is even more complicated in the fact that the entire document is the “indictment” regardless of whether one of its pages is signed or not; and as such, it should have been released in its entirety because the entire document is the result of the GJ’s investigation and is its only “official action”.

Also, I should point out, while it seems at first that the emails and letters between White and the DA’s office are being “nit-picky”, all of the back-and-forth between them served a purpose. White is trying to establish several positions and facts that are required before proceeding. These things are detailed in statutes 24-72-301, 302, 303, 304, and 305. The DA’s office probably knows that and is trying to avoid giving him what he needs to proceed. But because of his persistence, White succeeded in getting the information.


I don’t know how the Whites’ suit will be settled (or even if it will make it to a courtroom without being dismissed). There are too many issues here that are simply not spelled out in the CO statutes. Technically, I think the statutes require that the other pages be made public. The Whites want it, journalists want it, the public wants it, and even the Ramsey lawyers say that he (JR) wants it. Why not release it? The portions that have been released already tell us what the RGJ probably concluded. The other charges would simply tell us what other possibilities were considered and probably make the RGJ conclusions more apparent to those who refuse to see it. And the fact that the other charges were not agreed to by a majority of the RGJ allows enough doubt about possible guilt that they shouldn’t be considered proof of guilt. IOW, no one would be maligned by the release of the entire document and it is therefore "not contrary to the public interest".
BBM

According to Craig Silverman, a 9 of 12 majority vote is necessary to return "a true bill" -AND/OR- "no true bill" :

"There is a class one felony variation of Child Abuse Resulting in Death which is a form of First Degree Murder. The DA would need to prove that a person in a position of trust (John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey), caused the child abuse which resulted in six year oldJonBenet’s death, or acted as an accomplice for the person who did. I surmise the grand jury considered this charge (as Count IV) for each Ramsey parent, but did not achieve the necessary nine out of twelve majorities to vote it up (True Bill) or down (no True Bill).

The grand jury returned True Bills signed by its foreman on only two of a probable nine charges considered against both Ramsey parents. Aside from Count IV(a), the grand jury voted True Bills against John and Patsy Ramsey on a class four felony, Count VII, Accessory to the Crime of First Degree Murder and Child Abuse Resulting in Death. The parents were both accused of rendering assistance after to the killer of their daughter after the despicable act.

On the other counts, the grand jury apparently could not sufficiently agree on any True Bill or No True Bill. Judge Lowenbach decided only to release the counts on which the grand jury could agree, as verified by the signature of the grand jury foreman, which is why we only have the four pages."
http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/2013/10/28/jonbenet-grand-jury-indictment-could-re-ignite-case/
 
  • #32
More from Silverman:
"On the other counts, the grand jury apparently could not sufficiently agree on any True Bill or No True Bill. Judge Lowenbach decided only to release the counts on which the grand jury could agree, as verified by the signature of the grand jury foreman, which is why we only have the four pages.

Nine separate criminal counts were likely prepared by the prosecutors and deliberated by the grand jury against each Ramsey parent. We learned from Judge Robert Lowenbach’s Order that the Boulder DA turned over eighteen pages under seal. Each page likely contained a lone charge against each of JonBenet’s parents. The grand jury apparently considered a Sexual Assault on a Child charge because the judge further wrote:

“It appears that the District Attorney, presumably acting at the discretion of the grand jury, prepared a series of possible charges regarding John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey based on the fact that the child had died and that there was evidence that a sexual assault of the child had occurred,”​

What were the other counts considered? Perhaps they were as follows:
First Degree Murder – After Deliberation (F1)
First Degree Murder – Felony Murder (during commission of sexual assault on a child or other crime) (F1)
Sexual Assault on a Child
III.(a) Sexual Assault on a Child – Pattern of Conduct
Child Abuse Resulting in Death (F1) (child abuse against victim under 12 caused by person in position of trust), a.k.a. First Degree Murder. 18-3-102(1)(f) and 18-6-401(7)(c)
IV.(a) Child Abuse Resulting in Death (F2)
(permitted child to be placed in situation that led to her death.)
Child Abuse (permitting child to be placed in a situation where she is injured and/or sexually assaulted)
Accessory to Crime of Sexual Assault on a Child
Accessory to Crime of First Degree Murder and Child Abuse Resulting in Death (F4)"​


http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/2013/10/28/jonbenet-grand-jury-indictment-could-re-ignite-case/
 
  • #33
lol Ok so it was 19 pages. My apologies. That only further emphasizes my point that there are many other pages that are relevant and should be released.
 
  • #34
BBM

According to Craig Silverman, a 9 of 12 majority vote is necessary to return "a true bill" -AND/OR- "no true bill" :
"There is a class one felony variation of Child Abuse Resulting in Death which is a form of First Degree Murder. The DA would need to prove that a person in a position of trust (John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey), caused the child abuse which resulted in six year oldJonBenet’s death, or acted as an accomplice for the person who did. I surmise the grand jury considered this charge (as Count IV) for each Ramsey parent, but did not achieve the necessary nine out of twelve majorities to vote it up (True Bill) or down (no True Bill).

The grand jury returned True Bills signed by its foreman on only two of a probable nine charges considered against both Ramsey parents. Aside from Count IV(a), the grand jury voted True Bills against John and Patsy Ramsey on a class four felony, Count VII, Accessory to the Crime of First Degree Murder and Child Abuse Resulting in Death. The parents were both accused of rendering assistance after to the killer of their daughter after the despicable act.

On the other counts, the grand jury apparently could not sufficiently agree on any True Bill or No True Bill. Judge Lowenbach decided only to release the counts on which the grand jury could agree, as verified by the signature of the grand jury foreman, which is why we only have the four pages."
http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/2013/10/28/jonbenet-grand-jury-indictment-could-re-ignite-case/
I have absolutely no idea why Silverman would write that, but I think he’s wrong. I know he has a law degree (and I don’t), but I don’t believe that information about voting on a “No True Bill” is correct. A Grand Jury is very similar to a jury in a criminal or civil trial. Evidence is presented to the jury and they vote on the verdict -- civil trial, preponderance of evidence; criminal trial, guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; GJ, probable cause. In each case, the party instigating the action has the burden of proof. If the required majority of jurors (simple majority, 2/3 majority, 3/4 majority, or unanimous in capitol criminal cases) is unable to agree on the finding, the default is “for the defendant” (civil), “not guilty” (criminal), or “no true bill” (grand jury).

Speaking directly to the Ramsey GJ, there were 12 regular jurors and four alternates. The majority required was 3/4 (nine jurors) for a finding of probable cause (a “True Bill”). After the investigatory process and presentation of evidence, the “indictment” document was written (probably by M. Kane acting for the DA’s office) for the jurors to vote on each specific possible charge on any suspect developed by the GJ. That indictment document on each suspect may have an opening page (summarizing the case) and a closing page (for the Foreman and the DA to certify the results with their signatures). If that is the case, there are a total of seven charges that were considered for each suspect (not necessarily the nine total charges that others have speculated -- see note at end of this post). At the end of the GJ process, when the jurors voted on each developed charge, if at least nine jurors agreed on probable cause for the charge, it is signed by the GJ Foreman in the space for a “TRUE BILL”. If OTOH, there are less than nine jurors who agree on probable cause, the GJ Foreman signs in the space for “NO TRUE BILL”. There does not have to be nine or more jurors voting for a “NO TRUE BILL”, as suggested by Silverman’s article. If eight jurors voted for a “TRUE BILL”, that means that four did not, but the Foreman would sign in the space for “NO TRUE BILL” (because the GJ had failed to find probable cause on that specific charge). If what Silverman wrote was correct, what would they do if the GJ was split 50/50 on probable cause? In that case there would be not be a determination of “True Bill” or “No True Bill”.

This isn’t the first time Silverman has been wrong on something. I’ve heard him say some pretty “goofy” things on the radio with Dan Caplis and Peter Boyles. The article referred by Mama2JML even starts off with a ridiculous opening paragraph when he says:

JonBenet Ramsey was deliberately murdered in 1996 after she came home from Christmas dinner. It was First Degree Murder. Death came from the deliberate twisting of a garrote placed around her neck.

Without seeing the evidence, he doesn’t know it was “deliberate”, and he’s still hung up on that ridiculous notion about the “twisting of a garrote”. He may be passionate in his pursuit for “justice”, but that doesn’t make him right about anything. When "experts" write an opinion, they should be held to the same standard to which we are held here -- they should be required to write "MOO", or JMHO, or something similar at the end.

(BTW, all of the above is JMHO.)



Notes:


  • In the past, a “True Bill” was called (in Latin) “Billa vera”. A “No True Bill” was called a “Bill of Ignoramus”.

  • Most countries (except the US) have eliminated the use of Grand Juries. In the US, only about half of the states still use it today and the rules that govern their procedures differ between the states. If a GJ is not used, a “Preliminary Hearing” is held to present evidence to a judge who decides if there is probable cause to charge an accused person. If a GJ is used, the prosecutor can go directly to trial without having to present his/her evidence in open court before going to trial.

Although the prosecutor can also call the suspect as a witness, this is not typically done. When suspects are called, they often refuse to testify by invoking their privilege against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.


More
:
 
  • #35
I have absolutely no idea why Silverman would write that, but I think he’s wrong. I know he has a law degree (and I don’t), but I don’t believe that information about voting on a “No True Bill” is correct. A Grand Jury is very similar to a jury in a criminal or civil trial. Evidence is presented to the jury and they vote on the verdict -- civil trial, preponderance of evidence; criminal trial, guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; GJ, probable cause. In each case, the party instigating the action has the burden of proof. If the required majority of jurors (simple majority, 2/3 majority, 3/4 majority, or unanimous in capitol criminal cases) is unable to agree on the finding, the default is “for the defendant” (civil), “not guilty” (criminal), or “no true bill” (grand jury).

Speaking directly to the Ramsey GJ, there were 12 regular jurors and four alternates. The majority required was 3/4 (nine jurors) for a finding of probable cause (a “True Bill”). After the investigatory process and presentation of evidence, the “indictment” document was written (probably by M. Kane acting for the DA’s office) for the jurors to vote on each specific possible charge on any suspect developed by the GJ. That indictment document on each suspect may have an opening page (summarizing the case) and a closing page (for the Foreman and the DA to certify the results with their signatures). If that is the case, there are a total of seven charges that were considered for each suspect (not necessarily the nine total charges that others have speculated -- see note at end of this post). At the end of the GJ process, when the jurors voted on each developed charge, if at least nine jurors agreed on probable cause for the charge, it is signed by the GJ Foreman in the space for a “TRUE BILL”. If OTOH, there are less than nine jurors who agree on probable cause, the GJ Foreman signs in the space for “NO TRUE BILL”. There does not have to be nine or more jurors voting for a “NO TRUE BILL”, as suggested by Silverman’s article. If eight jurors voted for a “TRUE BILL”, that means that four did not, but the Foreman would sign in the space for “NO TRUE BILL” (because the GJ had failed to find probable cause on that specific charge). If what Silverman wrote was correct, what would they do if the GJ was split 50/50 on probable cause? In that case there would be not be a determination of “True Bill” or “No True Bill”.
BBM

~RSBM~

Thank you, otg. Whether it was Silverman or somewhere else, I’d been previously under the impression that it was 18 charges considered, 9 for each. Attached is the Midyette indictment which might shed a little more light on the way such indictments are assembled.
 

Attachments

  • #36
I don’t know if Fleet White still reads here or not, but if he does, I hope he reads the People v. Thompson Opinion and that he knows the following:


The Colorado statutes are very clear about “official actions” being available for public inspection. Those same statutes were clarified and annotated (with reference to the People v. Thompson Opinion) to specifically state that a GJ indictment is an “official action”. On the first page (not numbered) “Advance Sheet Headnote”, it says the following (bbm):

The Colorado Supreme Court makes the rule absolute. The court holds that because the indictment is a record of official action under the Colorado Criminal Justice Records Act, sections 24-72-301 to -309, C.R.S. (2007), the indictment has to be released for public inspection in its entirety, subject only to the deletion of identifying information of any alleged sexual assault victims.


And on numbered pages 7 and 8 of that same ruling, it says the following (bbm):

Generally, the CCJRA mandates disclosure of records of official actions. Pursuant to section 24-72-302(7), “official action” includes an indictment. § 24-72-302(7). Records of official actions “shall be open for inspection by any person at reasonable times, except as provided in [the CCJRA] or as otherwise provided by law.” § 24-72-303(1) (emphasis added). Thus, a record of official action must be available for public inspection unless one of the two exceptions applies: (1) non-disclosure is required by the CCJRA, or (2) non-disclosure is required by other law. See id. Consequently, the CCJRA does not grant any criminal justice agency, including a court, any discretion as to whether to disclose a record of official action in its entirety, in part, or not at all.



By this ruling, the CO Supreme Court says that not even a court (Judge Lowenbach) has any discretion in disclosing or not disclosing the indictment in its entirety. It should be released in full with no redactions (other than the name of any victim of a possible sexual assault).
 
  • #37
I don’t know if Fleet White still reads here or not, but if he does, I hope he reads the People v. Thompson Opinion and that he knows the following:


The Colorado statutes are very clear about “official actions” being available for public inspection. Those same statutes were clarified and annotated (with reference to the People v. Thompson Opinion) to specifically state that a GJ indictment is an “official action”. On the first page (not numbered) “Advance Sheet Headnote”, it says the following (bbm):

The Colorado Supreme Court makes the rule absolute. The court holds that because the indictment is a record of official action under the Colorado Criminal Justice Records Act, sections 24-72-301 to -309, C.R.S. (2007), the indictment has to be released for public inspection in its entirety, subject only to the deletion of identifying information of any alleged sexual assault victims.


And on numbered pages 7 and 8 of that same ruling, it says the following (bbm):

Generally, the CCJRA mandates disclosure of records of official actions. Pursuant to section 24-72-302(7), “official action” includes an indictment. § 24-72-302(7). Records of official actions “shall be open for inspection by any person at reasonable times, except as provided in [the CCJRA] or as otherwise provided by law.” § 24-72-303(1) (emphasis added). Thus, a record of official action must be available for public inspection unless one of the two exceptions applies: (1) non-disclosure is required by the CCJRA, or (2) non-disclosure is required by other law. See id. Consequently, the CCJRA does not grant any criminal justice agency, including a court, any discretion as to whether to disclose a record of official action in its entirety, in part, or not at all.



By this ruling, the CO Supreme Court says that not even a court (Judge Lowenbach) has any discretion in disclosing or not disclosing the indictment in its entirety. It should be released in full with no redactions (other than the name of any victim of a possible sexual assault).

Wow! Great find OTG. Can Trisha get this to them? Im pretty certain their address is listed in all of the correspondence with the court and DA's office.

God love them for staying with the fight because John Ramsey certainly isn't nor is JonBenet's beloved brother... you wouldn't even know she HAD a brother, quite frankly. MOO
 
  • #38
[SNIP]... I don’t believe that information about voting on a “No True Bill” is correct. A Grand Jury is very similar to a jury in a criminal or civil trial. Evidence is presented to the jury and they vote on the verdict -- civil trial, preponderance of evidence; criminal trial, guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; GJ, probable cause. In each case, the party instigating the action has the burden of proof. If the required majority of jurors (simple majority, 2/3 majority, 3/4 majority, or unanimous in capitol criminal cases) is unable to agree on the finding, the default is “for the defendant” (civil), “not guilty” (criminal), or “no true bill” (grand jury).
[SNIP]
Hey OTG,
You’re right that that is the norm, but Colorado is a little different :ufo:and Silverman is right insofar as the issue of voting on a “no true bill.” It does seem counter-intuitive doesn’t it?
Louisiana is another state that I’m aware of that shares this peculiarity. It, however, does a better job of spelling it out, it’s difficult to see in the Colorado statute that addresses the matter.
Compare:
At least nine members of the grand jury must concur in returning `a true bill' or `not a true bill'. A matter may be pretermitted by a vote of at least nine members of the grand jury, or as a consequence of the failure of nine of the grand jury members to agree on a finding.
(Louisiana LSA-C.Cr.P. art. 444B)
With…
The duty of the grand jury by an affirmative vote of nine or more members of the grand jury to determine, based on the evidence presented before it, whether or not there is probable cause for finding indictments and to determine the violations to be included in any such indictments
(Colorado C.R.S. 16-5-20E)

See also:
If the grand jury is used, the grand jury could issue an indictment charging the officer(s) criminally. To do so, at least nine of the twelve grand jurors must find probable cause that the defendant committed the charged crime. In order to return a “no true bill,” at least nine grand jurors must vote that the probable cause proof standard has not been met. In Colorado, the grand jury can now issue a report of their findings when they return a no true bill or do not reach a decision—do not have nine votes either way. The report of the grand jury is a public document.
http://www.denverda.org/News_Release/Decision_Letters/2014SisnerosLetter.pdf

The Grand Jury issued their report on December 1, 2004, reflecting that nine or more members of the Grand Jury could not reach an agreement on probable cause to support any of the counts in the presented indictment and issue either a True Bill (a document indicating that the necessary number of jurors agreed that there was sufficient evidence to indict) or a No True Bill (a document indicating that the necessary number of jurors agreed that there was not sufficient evidence to indict). District Attorney Ritter subsequently decided not to charge Officer Ford with any crimes resulting from the shooting death of Frank Lobato based on his professional opinion that he could not prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime had been committed.
http://extras.denverpost.com/pdf/lobato_statement.pdf
 
  • #39
Hunter couldn't find his backside using both hands

as a holder of elective office he was obliged to perform the duties he sought responsibility for while campaigning. having breakfast downtown every morning with your fans and sycophants (local defense attys) is not enough. during a 4-year period with homicide charges filed in 23 cases, something is terribly wrong when all 23 homicide cases are plea-bargained

the chief deputy DA Pete Hofstrom said it best, in '96: "I haven't tried a case this year, and I don't intend to unless absolutely necessary."

[^^^ Steve Thomas' IRMI]

as I've posted before: doctors, nurses, teachers, firemen, LEOs, and so many other productive members of society don't have the same luxury of refusing to do what they were hired to do (and keeping their jobs)

the Boulder DA's office didn't care for being in courtrooms unless they were accepting pleas that were the result of backroom bargaining. obviously, they did not possess (and they feared having to rely on) courtroom skills and experience

pfffftttttttt!

Thanks just was not enough to hear you rear back and Roar!
 
  • #40
I join gram @ otgU :)

There are several issues here that will affect the outcome of this suit brought by Fleet and Priscilla White.

The first challenge to making the Ramsey Grand Jury indictments public was establishing in court that, even though charges were not pursued by the DA, the charges considered by the RGJ were an "official action". This became kind of a gray area because of the situation created when Hunter refused to sign the True Bills and hid that fact behind the claim of the secrecy of GJ proceedings. Once it was learned that the RGJ did indeed return TBs, Charlie Brennan’s suit for release of the “official actions” of the RGJ was difficult for a judge to deny because of the laws in Colorado. In any event, Judge Lowenbach’s ruling established that they were (with one caveat that I’ll get to later in this post). The CO statutes specifically state that any “official actions” that are maintained by any "criminal justice agency" (in this case, the DA’s office) are subject to public disclosure -- unless there are grounds for denial. Those grounds would be if public disclosure would be “contrary to the public interest”, or if disclosure would violate another conflicting state law or court order (C.R.S. 24-72-305). Once requested, the burden of proof then falls on the custodian of the records (the DA’s office) to prove grounds for denial.
<RSBMFS>
I don’t know how the Whites’ suit will be settled (or even if it will make it to a courtroom without being dismissed). There are too many issues here that are simply not spelled out in the CO statutes. Technically, I think the statutes require that the other pages be made public. The Whites want it, journalists want it, the public wants it, and even the Ramsey lawyers say that he (JR) wants it. Why not release it? The portions that have been released already tell us what the RGJ probably concluded. The other charges would simply tell us what other possibilities were considered and probably make the RGJ conclusions more apparent to those who refuse to see it. And the fact that the other charges were not agreed to by a majority of the RGJ allows enough doubt about possible guilt that they shouldn’t be considered proof of guilt. IOW, no one would be maligned by the release of the entire document and it is therefore "not contrary to the public interest".

As always a much appreciated, thoughtful explanation of what this could mean. It means that it is "not contrary to the public interest" to release a document dump of the charges considered by the RGJ. This endeavor has my 100% support. This is a BGJ report; not the Warren Commission Report.

Portions of the Warren Commission file on President Kennedy's Assassination remain under seal until 2017.

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/
 

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