Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[cyberborg]

Bern, I could be wrong but I seem to remember an FBI agent on NG stating that DNA is not likely to be picked up on a cinder block that had been picked up unless there was skin tissue left behind. I guess you would have to scratch or scrape your hands before they could find enough to test. IDK though.

I think the key with bricking the door is that LE took the door, so they could check for any fingerprints and regular wear and tear to determine if that was regularly done or not.

If there is evidence to suggest the door had been bricked open as a matter of routine then, it sheds significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging.

So that fits well with the statements from LE about Misty's inconsistencies conflicting with physical evidence and ... it not being a stranger abduction. Speaks volumes.

 

[curvecuti]

I think the key with bricking the door is that LE took the door, so they could check for any fingerprints and regular wear and tear to determine if that was regularly done or not.

If there is evidence to suggest the door had been bricked open as a matter of routine then, it sheds significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging.

So that fits well with the statements from LE about Misty's inconsistencies conflicting with physical evidence and ... it not being a stranger abduction. Speaks volumes.

RC had only lived there since Nov. if there was wear on the door, from being bricked open, it prob. would have been from former resident. So I don't think that's gonna be alot of help. If he had lived there for years that would fit, but in this case it does not. IMO.

 

[Baznme]

I think the key with bricking the door is that LE took the door, so they could check for any fingerprints and regular wear and tear to determine if that was regularly done or not.

If there is evidence to suggest the door had been bricked open as a matter of routine then, it sheds significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging.

So that fits well with the statements from LE about Misty's inconsistencies conflicting with physical evidence and ... it not being a stranger abduction. Speaks volumes.

Ahh.....now I see what you mean. They would also have known if that washer or dryer had been used that night.

Here's something else I've wondered about. Haleigh's mattress was on the floor in the master bedroom. There was no mattress on her youth bed in her bedroom, so I have been assuming that the one in the master bedroom was in fact the youth bed mattress. Was that mattress always in that room or was it usually in Haleigh's bedroom? Just thinking that she may have been afraid to sleep by herself in her room and maybe gave MC a fit about that. I'm wondering if the mattress was placed in the M-bedroom AFTER she was no longer in the MH. Could have been a conscience that was being tugged at after the fact OR that person didn't want to be questioned about such a theory.

 

[cyberborg]

RC had only lived there since Nov. if there was wear on the door, from being bricked open, it prob. would have been from former resident. So I don't think that's gonna be alot of help. If he had lived there for years that would fit, but in this case it does not. IMO.

You easily can tell how recent the wear on the wood is. You can easily tell if there are fresh marks and fresh prints. Weathering.

Also, IIRC Ron had said he knew of no bricks near the house or the yard. He wouldn't even know where to find one nearby.

 

[curvecuti]

You easily can tell how recent the wear on the wood is. You can easily tell if there are fresh marks and fresh prints. Weathering.

Also, IIRC Ron had said he knew of no bricks near the house or the yard. He wouldn't even know where to find one nearby.

I've never seen a mobile home w/ a wood door. This was a wood door? And that evidence is going to e a hard sell in court, if they would even attempt it, because of the very short period of time he had lived there. Fresh marks and prints could be from that night it was used.

 

[azwriter]

That makes a LOT of sense if there was an accident or rage and this guy was helping Misty remove the body. I doubt Misty did that part.

Ditto on your post. I too don't believe Misty was involved in removing Haleigh from the home, or where ever an accident may have occured, if it was an accident. This gives Misty the availability to be able to state she didn't harm that little girl with conviction.
JMO

 

[texasmommy39]

IMO, usually you first need to know which crimes have been committed before you can clear people of being part of them.

I would say first you need to know what time the alleged crime was committed before you can clear people of being part of them. That is IMO what has held this investigation in stagnation no clear timeline to identify exactly who's alibi doesn't hold water. Just MO

 

[cyberborg]

I've never seen a mobile home w/ a wood door. This was a wood door? And that evidence is going to e a hard sell in court, if they would even attempt it, because of the very short period of time he had lived there. Fresh marks and prints could be from that night it was used.

It does not matter about the composition of the door, real wood, fibreboard, plastic, aluminum, whatever wear is wear caused by a cinder block and you can scientifically determine if the wear is recent.

This is Forensics 101 so I don't see an issue in using it, if there was ever a case against a perp.

I am SURPRISED you are concerned about selling it in a court when --- it might not be against Misty or Ron that this is being used. You sound like your assumption is that this evidence would be used against Ron? :waitasec:

 

[azwriter]

Exactly. Ron statements are defensive, overly cautious, non informational, limited, deflecting, etc.

Like Misty he limits comments to common phrases and does not venture anything further, it is as if he does not want to say something that opens himself up to further questioning or trip up. It is like he is being questioned by a foreign enemy and only wants to recount his name, rank and, number.

Ron does not engage in discussion where there are comments like the girl and Larry, he is not proactive, investigative, explorative, even interested.

When asked one time by NG Ron simply stated that it was the job of LE to investigate so he was not asking hard questions or following up on inconsistencies. WTH? I would be personally and passionately involved not dismissive and delegating.

Finally, when talking about Misty, Misty's inconsistencies and, whether Misty has the key --- Ron always makes me feel he knows two versions of the story -- the public version we all know and the private version --- that's why he struggles there and cannot confuse the two with details.

Excellent post in summing up Ron's public appearances. Especially currently when watching other parents who recently lost children. There is a glaring difference between how Morgan and Somer's parents react to the public questioning.
To me it seems Ron's tv appearances do one thing - keeps his missing daughter's name in the airwaves, which is a good thing. But, IMO, he is always short on answers, as you have pointed out.

 

[cyberborg]

I've never seen a mobile home w/ a wood door. This was a wood door? And that evidence is going to e a hard sell in court, if they would even attempt it, because of the very short period of time he had lived there. Fresh marks and prints could be from that night it was used.

"Also, a Putnam County sheriff's deputy on Wednesday removed the back door of the Cummings home -- the same door that was found propped open the night the girl disappeared. Officials would not comment on why the door was taken."

---
“He was upset when he got home, and when he got angry, he punched a door and busted up his knuckles,” said Lt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff’s Department. In fact, Cummings pointed out the exact spot on the back door he’d hit hard enough to leave a hand print.

---

Sykes walked to a door that leads from the kitchen through a laundry room and to a side door.

"This is the door, the back door where they took her out," she said. "You have to push on the door really hard because that's the way they put it in there. A block had the screen door propped open and the back door was wide open."

The side door was rarely used by Cummings, Sykes said.

"The only time this door was open was when they washed and vacuumed the car, because this door was so hard to open," she said.

 

[Malesherbes]

Has anyone ever explored if Misty is deaf, or has hearing loss of some sorts? Because the opening of that door that had to have been propped open and the whole door picking had to have made some sort of sound? I just dont buy she was so tired, according to her she had slept during the day-

 

[curvecuti]

It does not matter about the composition of the door, real wood, fibreboard, plastic, aluminum, whatever wear is wear caused by a cinder block and you can scientifically determine if the wear is recent.

This is Forensics 101 so I don't see an issue in using it, if there was ever a case against a perp.

I am SURPRISED you are concerned about selling it in a court when --- it might not be against Misty or Ron that this is being used. You sound like your assumption is that this evidence would be used against Ron? :waitasec:

What? :waitasec: I said if they were going to use the door wear as evidence it would be a hard sell to fit it to Misty's inconsistencies and significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging., because of the short amount of time they had lived in the home. That's what your post referred to. And the screen door is not wood, it is metal. There is no way in the forensic technology we teach that it could be proven that wear was from 2 months ago or 4, it can't be narrowed down that close. Years of wear, from being propped open, yes. So like I said if they had lived in the home a longer time this would be easier to gauge.

 

[azwriter]

Does anyone know of a book or title of a book that recounts a child on the run or in the Underground Railroad? I went to Amazon but all I find is the RR from the Civil War and the slaves. I know there has to be some book or information on this subject. I want to see how this works, because I am will to do another theory if I can get the details and costs, and criteria to get a child in. Most of what I did see, were news headliners about parents WITH their child getting caught. this did not give me much insight to the RR but did seem to support the mother went with the child or the dad. The children were not hidden from both bio parents. There was on case with a grandmother, but it was one out of many. So that does happen.

Bern, there is a book "Orphan Trains," by Stephen O'Connor, that might help. You may be looking for something more contemporary, since this true account takes place in the mid-nineteenth century. Interesting book of how poor homeless children were placed with new families throught the efforts of Charley Loring Brace. Hope this helps.

 

[curvecuti]

"Also, a Putnam County sheriff's deputy on Wednesday removed the back door of the Cummings home -- the same door that was found propped open the night the girl disappeared. Officials would not comment on why the door was taken."

---
“He was upset when he got home, and when he got angry, he punched a door and busted up his knuckles,” said Lt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff’s Department. In fact, Cummings pointed out the exact spot on the back door he’d hit hard enough to leave a hand print.

---

Sykes walked to a door that leads from the kitchen through a laundry room and to a side door.

"This is the door, the back door where they took her out," she said. "You have to push on the door really hard because that's the way they put it in there. A block had the screen door propped open and the back door was wide open."

The side door was rarely used by Cummings, Sykes said.

"The only time this door was open was when they washed and vacuumed the car, because this door was so hard to open," she said.

BBM It was the outside metal screen door that was propped open, it was the inside metal door that RC punched. 2 diffeent doors. I don't really know what this post is for with the quotes.

 

[cyberborg]

What? :waitasec: I said if they were going to use the door wear as evidence it would be a hard sell to fit it to Misty's inconsistencies and significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging., because of the short amount of time they had lived in the home. That's what your post referred to. And the screen door is not wood, it is metal. There is no way in the forensic technology we teach that it could be proven that wear was from 2 months ago or 4, it can't be narrowed down that close. Years of wear, from being propped open, yes. So like I said if they had lived in the home a longer time this would be easier to gauge.

BBM. Link please.

 

[Dr. Know?]

What? :waitasec: I said if they were going to use the door wear as evidence it would be a hard sell to fit it to Misty's inconsistencies and significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging., because of the short amount of time they had lived in the home. That's what your post referred to. And the screen door is not wood, it is metal. There is no way in the forensic technology we teach that it could be proven that wear was from 2 months ago or 4, it can't be narrowed down that close. Years of wear, from being propped open, yes. So like I said if they had lived in the home a longer time this would be easier to gauge.

I think it could be narrowed down if recently replaced, landlords keep records of improvements to properties and charge the previous owner if needed to replace. So the age of the screen door might have been since they moved in or about to move in. Don't know though. Remove if needed...

 

[azwriter]

I think the key with bricking the door is that LE took the door, so they could check for any fingerprints and regular wear and tear to determine if that was regularly done or not.

If there is evidence to suggest the door had been bricked open as a matter of routine then, it sheds significant doubt on the whole intruder story as being more likely a cover-up and staging.

So that fits well with the statements from LE about Misty's inconsistencies conflicting with physical evidence and ... it not being a stranger abduction. Speaks volumes.

And, didn't Ron himself state that door was mainly used when removing trash from the mobile home? I would think it might need to be "bricked" or propped open to carry something like that out the door. jmo

 

[curvecuti]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedImages/Stories/Local/backdoor.jpg


http://patrishka.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/backdoor.jpg

ETA YouTube - A look at the Cummings' home

 

[Baznme]

BBM. Link please.

Curvecuti - is there a way to tell if you have a door from Florida that has any kind of mold, mildew on it whether or not that has been scraped by a block to know if that was recent?

 

[cyberborg]

And, didn't Ron himself state that door was mainly used when removing trash from the mobile home? I would think it might need to be "bricked" or propped open to carry something like that out the door. jmo

Precisely!!!

To move anything, with two automatically closing doors you'd prop one out of your way. Ron admits he did use it to move the vacuum down the ramp, but then hardly uses it, but then checks it every afternoon before going to work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/07/ng.01.html

GRACE: Mr. Cummings, about the back door, am I correct that you never -- you`ve rarely used the back door that was propped open?

CUMMINGS: Yes, you are correct. I`ve used it twice to pull a vacuum cleaner down the handicapped ramp and vacuum my car with it. And yes, I did relock the door when I came in. And I check to be sure that it is still locked every afternoon before I go to work.