Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh ? #5

[Whisperer]

Was TN aware that Misty had been sexually molested and that JM was paying for the crime by doing jail time? Maybe someone connected to JM took Haleigh to get even with the Croslin Family.

Do we know anything about the circumstances surrounding Misty’s rape incident with JM. Did these sexual acts against Misty all occur in her home and was she ever sleeping and unable to defend herself against the perp?

If TN wasn’t told these intimate details about Misty’s life, how can she truly know if her granddaughter is safe in her care? By his own actions Ron is telling anyone who cares to know, that having sex with a child is okay so of course someone is going to want HaLeigh.

My understanding is that JM was Misty's boyfriend. He was 16 yrs old and she was 14 yrs old. He was tried as an adult and misty testified.

 

[Baznme]

Ron ordered Misty to whip HaLeigh in order to teach her a lesson and clearly this is not the proper way to raise a child because HaLeigh doesn’t have any say in what happens to her and her rights are violated. Children need a caregiver who is able to listen to them and communicate at their level so they can learn and adapt to their environment so they remain secure and safe. Haleigh was having problems at home with bedwetting because of inconsistent and improper care and Misty called Ron because she didn’t know how to respond to HaLeigh and provide the structure and emotional support she needed to master this urgent matter. Misty is rebellious and she unfortunately didn’t learn survival skills at home or at school so she is a victim who has nothing genuine to offer children and she isn’t qualified to babysit. If HaLeigh had no say at home with Ron and Misty and they couldn’t connect with her at her level and establish rapport with her, then we can't rule out either Ron or Misty as suspects until the truth comes out.

Your post shows wise advice on the ideal parenting skills, but that was never even close in this case, as we all regret. I do believe the bedwetting was due to a muscle that had not yet developed in Haleigh to allow her to control her bladder when she was sleeping. From what I've read, it can be a symptom of the "Turner's Syndrome" that Haleigh has/had. I don't think even her father knew or took the time to research that and I'm sure MC's few short months there didn't enlighten her either. So, their solution was to "teach her a lesson". While we are trying to analyze the reaction to the bedwetting, I'm curious as to the pee blanket, etc. what doesn't make any sense is this. If that convo took place about teaching her a lesson, it had to have taken place before 8:30 pm when MC shut the phone off. Had Haleigh already been asleep before that time and wet the bed? Highly unlikely....which leads me to believe that as a Roxycodone user she never went to bed that night and did not want to deal with babysitting, as we are finding out is true. Users of this drug do not sleep but a couple of hours at a time if at all. It produces a chemical concoction in the brain that replaces what we would normally produce on it's own and in addicts of this kind, once the drug replaces this chemical, the body stops making it on its' own, thus the constant need for more. Once the dose begins to wear off, the brain craves this chemical to the point of desperation to get more as they become sicker and sicker. In the interim, the user will behave irratically and the range of actions can go from rage to mild mannered in a matter of a few minutes, once they put that next pill into their system and I think RC was instrumental in controlling MC with this drug. If she shut the phone off at 8:30 pm, it was because she was going to be "unavailable" so she could score. She wasn't doing laundry. While some won't agree with me, I can't let go of the "bleach cleaning" mentioned on the 911 tape. I hear it every time I listen to it. I believe she did bleach cleaning that night to clean up her own mess from being sick without this drug.

Tommy wasn't sitting on the porch "meditating". He went there because he couldn't get hold of his sister, IMO. He's covering for his sister as I believe he was her ride that night to "score" and he needed a hit himself! They know what happened to Haleigh. Addicts on this drug will say and do anything to get more. Anything.

 

[doobiedoo52]

JMO, but I don't believe it has ever been verified that the conversation on "just whip her" really even took place the same night that Haleigh disappeared. The wording on some of the media articles is kind of vague. They will be talking about that night and then insert stories from other employees that make it sound like they happened the same night. Sometimes you really have to read between the lines on media reports.

 

[Donjeta]

Did some other media report the whipping comment besides the Bald blog?
He says explicitly that this happened weeks before Haleigh disappeared:

According to co-workers within earshot of Ronald Cummings at Palatka, Florida’s PDM Bridge, Misty Croslin sounded hysterical when she called one night weeks before the 17 year old babysitter reported his daughter, Haleigh, had vanished while he was at work and she was asleep with the kids.

“I remember she called him in tears, because the little girl was giving her fits and he told her, ‘Whip her, just whip her and make her be quiet,’” recalls fellow crane operator Eric Zastrow, 32, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth. “He said, ‘Just whip the little brat, she needs to understand it’s time to go to bed, or put a movie in for her.’ Then he hung up.”

http://www.artharris.com/2009/04/27/exclusive-haleigh-cummings-dads-solid-alibi/

Of course, if it happened once it may have happened more often so it doesn't mean theories involving whipping aren't within the realm of possibility.

If this story is true I must say I don't think much about this sort of parenting, "Just whip the little brat, she needs to understand it’s time to go to bed, or put a movie in for her." If whipping wasn't bad enough, the remark tops it with inconsistency. She needs to understand it's time to go to bed, or maybe not, if it's easier to let the child watch a movie you can forget about the bedtime.

 

[stilettos]

Did some other media report the whipping comment besides the Bald blog?
He says explicitly that this happened weeks before Haleigh disappeared:

http://www.artharris.com/2009/04/27/exclusive-haleigh-cummings-dads-solid-alibi/

Of course, if it happened once it may have happened more often so it doesn't mean theories involving whipping aren't within the realm of possibility.

If this story is true I must say I don't think much about this sort of parenting, "Just whip the little brat, she needs to understand it’s time to go to bed, or put a movie in for her." If whipping wasn't bad enough, the remark tops it with inconsistency. She needs to understand it's time to go to bed, or maybe not, if it's easier to let the child watch a movie you can forget about the bedtime.

These people never should have had these angels in their custody for one moment. Tn and GGM that includes you.

 

[txsvicki]

I think there's a theory that's being overlooked: Who in the family knew Haleigh and is said to have liked "messing" with little girls. Who had gotten back on drugs and had stressors in the life. Who had problems with stealing and wandering at night. Who places themself at the trailer that night, alone, and insists that the children and Misty were not there. Who could have known that Misty wanted someone to babysit that night and was exhausted. Who sold their truck after Haleigh went missing. Who is said to have entered the home of at least one sleeping woman and stolen odd items. Who blames their current problems on Haleigh's disappearance and their involvement with Misty. And, who knows they can count on family loyalty and is telling the spouse to keep her mouth shut. Who is Misty telling some of these things about, but maybe can't be sure that he did anything. Who else but family would Misty cover for with the blanket stories (if ron really was at work) and who would have already talked if they helped Misty clean up anything or dispose of a body. Haleigh was taken out of the trailer because there is no evidence of her being attacked or killed there and whoever did it had knowledge of propping doors with bricks.

 

[Crosby87]

I think there's a theory that's being overlooked: Who in the family knew Haleigh and is said to have liked "messing" with little girls. Who had gotten back on drugs and had stressors in the life. Who had problems with stealing and wandering at night. Who places themself at the trailer that night, alone, and insists that the children and Misty were not there. Who could have known that Misty wanted someone to babysit that night and was exhausted. Who sold their truck after Haleigh went missing. Who is said to have entered the home of at least one sleeping woman and stolen odd items. Who blames their current problems on Haleigh's disappearance and their involvement with Misty. And, who knows they can count on family loyalty and is telling the spouse to keep her mouth shut. Who is Misty telling some of these things about, but maybe can't be sure that he did anything. Who else but family would Misty cover for with the blanket stories (if ron really was at work) and who would have already talked if they helped Misty clean up anything or dispose of a body. Haleigh was taken out of the trailer because there is no evidence of her being attacked or killed there and whoever did it had knowledge of propping doors with bricks.

When TC worked as a drywaller, he would prop open doors first so he could carry equipment in and out easier.

 

[Trident]

If Tommy "did it", how do you explain Ron and Misty's changing stories? Do they have any reason to cover for Tommy - especially RC? Did Tommy make them move out of the trailer into a tent and wonder if their phones were bugged? Tommy being the perp doesn't answer all the weirdness, shifting stories, and manipulation out of the Cummings clan. People may want it to "appear" Tommy is guilty, but I see too much evidence that "others" were involved.

My opinion only

 

[dodie20]

I think there is another theory that has been largely overlooked-probably because it doesn't hold much credibility, but I don't think any stoned should be left unturned. Besides himself, who would Ron lie & cover for? Who was one of the 3 who claimed to have picked Haleigh up from the bus stop? Who has been sheltering Misty? Who has admitted to using oxycotin? Who, besides Ron & Misty has told inconsistent stories? Who got to the trailer-lickety split & with a photo? Who didn't move Ron, Misty, & Jr. into her home? I guess I could go on, but it's just a possible scenario.

 

[Whisperer]

It would help to know why Tommy and all the children stopped by at 5:00pm to see misty...er...if he did.

1. Was he picking up his kids?
2. Was he delivering misty from somehwere?
3. Was he taking the all five kids somewhere?
4. Was he picking up his van or dropping it off?
5. Was he bringing JO by to say "Goodbye" to misty?

It would be helpful to know the purpose of the visit, or if he really did visit.

 

[Whisperer]

I had always wondered why rc didn't like Nay and misty was not allowed to bring her near the mh. Light bulb moment here. He was afraid she would steal his drugs or misty would give her some of the stash. when a

On the show tonight, it was mentioned about the gun ron showed TM. Again, rc states, when all this is over he will kill himself and take a few others with him. He also said something similar on the day of the crime.....like when all this is over, I'm going to take out the trash.

...........When what is over?

 

[nomoresorrow]

I think there's a theory that's being overlooked: Who in the family knew Haleigh and is said to have liked "messing" with little girls. Who had gotten back on drugs and had stressors in the life. Who had problems with stealing and wandering at night. Who places themself at the trailer that night, alone, and insists that the children and Misty were not there. Who could have known that Misty wanted someone to babysit that night and was exhausted. Who sold their truck after Haleigh went missing. Who is said to have entered the home of at least one sleeping woman and stolen odd items. Who blames their current problems on Haleigh's disappearance and their involvement with Misty. And, who knows they can count on family loyalty and is telling the spouse to keep her mouth shut. Who is Misty telling some of these things about, but maybe can't be sure that he did anything. Who else but family would Misty cover for with the blanket stories (if ron really was at work) and who would have already talked if they helped Misty clean up anything or dispose of a body. Haleigh was taken out of the trailer because there is no evidence of her being attacked or killed there and whoever did it had knowledge of propping doors with bricks.

(Respectfully Snipped & BBM)
txsvicki;
Who in the family knew Haleigh and is said to have liked "messing" with little girls.

NMS: Misty. Beyond Misty's word, there is no one, nor are there any records that indicate that ("messing with little girls") to be true - Additionally, since Misty's public claim, no one, family or otherwise, has come forward, either to validate Misty's claim or to tell of similar experiences. The only individual that we know of who had a preference for, and a history of messing with under-age girls, unquestionably, is Ronald Cummings.

txsvicki;
Who had gotten back on drugs and had stressors in the life.

NMS: As far as drug use and stressors being a factor in this case - in terms of it identifying a perp - that list would be long indeed, but in order to narrow it down, the two individuals who had drug issues, were in the closest authoritive (parent/caretaker roles) position and physical proximity (opportunity) were/would be Ronald Cummings and Misty Croslin.

txsvicki;
Who places themself at the trailer that night

NMS: I actually find it more suspect that Ronald Cummings, from day one, has repeated the same four words, "I was at werk." I'm more concerned about an individual that incessantly, like a broken record..., distances him/herself from the victim > in this case, HaLeigh.

txsvicki;
Who could have known that Misty wanted someone to babysit that night and was exhausted.

NMS: For starters, Teresa Neves, since we now know that Misty told her that she was exhausted and didn't want to babysit that night. Who or If Teresa repeated that information to anyone else (or if anyone overheard her conversation with Misty...), who's to say, but Tommy was far from the only person privy to that information.

txsvicki;
Who sold their truck after Haleigh went missing.

NMS: Not sure what the point here is unless your thoughts are that Tommy sold the truck because it contained evidence of HaLeigh... If that's your point, I have no doubt whatsoever that LE has located and has gone over that truck with a fine toothcomb and, had any incriminating evidence been found in that truck linked to HaLeigh, this case would have veered sharply to the right several months ago. We could equally suspect Ronald's change in vehicles following HaLeigh's disappearance - God knows, nobody has changed vehicles more in this case than the Cummings family! Keep in mind; It would be far easier for Ronald Cummings, Dorothy Sykes, and Teresa Neves to explain away any trace evidence (e.g,. HaLeigh's blood...) if any were found in their vehicles but not so easy, say for Tommy, to explain away.

txsvicki;
Who is said to have entered the home of at least one sleeping woman and stolen odd items.

NMS: Again, Misty's claim. I don't doubt that Tommy is a thief - What I do find curious and questionable is that a woman was supposedly sleeping in the home and remained asleep all while glass bottles were being collected to be taken, electronic equipment was being unplugged/disconnected to be taken, cabinet doors were being opened & closed, and even feeling comfortable enough in the environment to take the time to add a few frivolous items (the dawn dish detergent and the scotch-brite pads)... :waitasec:, Something doesn't ring true here for me. I do however find it interesting that Misty added that detail in her story.

txsvicki;
Who blames their current problems on Haleigh's disappearance and their involvement with Misty. And, who knows they can count on family loyalty and is telling the spouse to keep her mouth shut.

NMS: :waitasec: I think they all pretty much do. IIRC Ronald's first words to the press (Dana I think, but correct me if I'm wrong here please) was that "this" (his arrest) wasn't about the drugs, it was about HaLeigh's disappearance. Something to that effect. And as far as counting on family loyalty; Who carried a message to Ronald from his "pops" and his mother to watch what he says because there's a snitch in the Putnam County Jail? That would be good ole' Grandma - now that's family loyalty for ya!

txsvicki;
Who is Misty telling some of these things about, but maybe can't be sure that he did anything.

NMS: That can definately be said of Misty with Ronald, backed up by the results of Misty's VSA which visibly showed that she was not convinced of Ronald's innocence/non-participation in HaLeigh's disappearance.

txsvicki;
Who else but family would Misty cover for with the blanket stories

NMS: This one is very interesting to me. Who would know better than anyone what blankets Ronald had in his home; especially what blanket each child used/preferred? Teresa and Grandma Sykes seem to know a great deal about Ronald & Misty's living habits - whether or not a television is left on at night, whether or not a bedroom door is left open or closed at night, whether or not there's "always" dirty laundry on the floor in front of the washing machine... I haven't heard anything about the Croslin family doing laundry for Ronald's household and/or dropping off any clean laundry - only Grandma Sykes. If there is anything amiss with the blanket story(ies), it seems to me that the two people, outside of Ronald & Misty, who would know anything about the blankets, it would be Teresa and Grandma Sykes and I haven't heard them speak up or speak out over the past 11 + months disagreeing with Misty's account of the blankets.
Also keep in mind that Teresa and Grandma Sykes had the advantage of going into Ronald's home after the 911 call so there again, they would/could have known first-hand what was/wasn't missing, like the blankets...

txsvicki;
whoever did it had knowledge of propping doors with bricks

NMS: We've come full-circle (lol). Let's see...Misty (conveniently) brought this little tid-bit out about Cuzzin Jo, so obviously Misty had knowledge of it and if Misty had knowledge of it, there's no telling who else did. I can tell you this though, if I'm a thief and my "signature" is propping doors open with bricks/cement blocks, and the current home that I just so happen to be targeting is the home of someone who knows me so well that they know my "signature" - I'm going to make darn sure that I don't leave any traces of my signature, especially if I stole a child, not just a bag a weed, a stereo system, or a gameboy... :crazy:

My Humble Opinion Only ~

 

[Crosby87]

If Tommy "did it", how do you explain Ron and Misty's changing stories? Do they have any reason to cover for Tommy - especially RC? Did Tommy make them move out of the trailer into a tent and wonder if their phones were bugged? Tommy being the perp doesn't answer all the weirdness, shifting stories, and manipulation out of the Cummings clan. People may want it to "appear" Tommy is guilty, but I see too much evidence that "others" were involved.

Ron believed somebody stole his child. Ron was forced to leave the trailer so LE could proceed with the investigation into the disappearance of his daughter. So far I suspect Tommy's involved more than Joe and the Croslin women twisted the facts to cover for both T&L. Lindsy won't squeal on Tommy so she can hold onto her children. Joe said he is innocent.

Here is the real kicker for me with regards to Tommy: Tommy said he saw HaLeigh nearly everyday and perhaps Tommy’s real reason for coming to Ron’s home Monday was because he was “in love” with HaLeigh. Both Lindsy and Ronald were preoccupied with work Monday evening and Tommy left and returned to Ron’s later that same evening to “check on Misty” but I suspect TC came to unlock the back door. Ron didn’t think he was doing anything wrong by having sex with Misty who was a minor and what he did in his personal life is nobody’s business. So if Ron feels this behavior is acceptable to him, there is nothing preventing Tommy from feeling he is entitled to have HaLeigh? Hank knew exactly where Misty was that night and what she was doing so until we know more, I believe Hank is responsible for HaLeigh’s disappearance.

 

[txsvicki]

Thanks to those who replied to my post, because I saw that I left out something:

Who lived within walking distance if he wanted to come back on foot after first coming by to make sure an adult wasn't home or that they wouldn't wake easily to knocking. Also, Ron and/or Misty could have been paranoid about dealing drugs if they were doing it at that time. It could have affected their responses to questions.

 

[Whisperer]

Oh oh whips, you're dating yourself Schools and other offices haven't used "carbons" since the mesozoic age lol, not to mention it would be not only fairly pointless to manufacture a fraudulent doctored attendance record for public fodder but actually self-incriminating when LE had immediate access to the real thing. :waitasec: JMO

arrot:

What I saw here, it looked like a carbon machine. Yes, I know how old they are. It appeared to be similar though. I am questioning the copy that was given to the media. Who knows what the original said? I bet a family member got a copy and released it (maybe altered). I don't think LE or the school released that copy. And it did have an erasure and it did have an explanation for remarks which is not compatible with the carbon-like (perhaps photocopy) record.

Ron has lied often even if it flies in the eyes or truth. We have heard him say he picked up his daughter on Feb 9th; there is a contrary report, he didn't. So I take anything ron says or does with a grain of salt. If a family member got a copy of the attendance record, who is to say they didn't alter it. OTOH...it could be a simple error...still would like to know if it was the school office or a family member who altered it. Also, I find the typing overkill...way too much information.

 

[Whisperer]

At least we have some background now that shows rc is abusive. His GMA stated that he was very rude and had no manners. He started threatening people on the outside right out of high school.

Funny, because the first thing out of rc's mouth on the day of the crime was how well behaved and well-mannered his little girl was. He said, "She was the most well-mannered child I've ever had". Those words sent chills down my spine. Immediately I processed he beat her to get that behavior. She certainly could not have got it from being around him. He stressed that point again. It is obvious to me that he gave out corporal punishment to these kids. The days Haleigh was absent could have been days the marks were still showing. He is a mean one, he is. I imagine Misty had seen this often and continued the pattern. I am so disgusted with typing this. Is there ever going to be anyone to speak up for Haleigh?

With a $35,000 reward to be had, if any of the family members had info, they would talk if they weren't involved. This money is like a million dollars to them, I bet.

 

[Pondering Mind]

At least we have some background now that shows rc is abusive. His GMA stated that he was very rude and had no manners. He started threatening people on the outside right out of high school.

Funny, because the first thing out of rc's mouth on the day of the crime was how well behaved and well-mannered his little girl was. He said, "She was the most well-mannered child I've ever had". Those words sent chills down my spine. Immediately I processed he beat her to get that behavior. She certainly could not have got it from being around him. He stressed that point again. It is obvious to me that he gave out corporal punishment to these kids. The days Haleigh was absent could have been days the marks were still showing. He is a mean one, he is. I imagine Misty had seen this often and continued the pattern. I am so disgusted with typing this. Is there ever going to be anyone to speak up for Haleigh?

With a $35,000 reward to be had, if any of the family members had info, they would talk if they weren't involved. This money is like a million dollars to them, I bet.

bbm~
Whisperer, interesting that you would mention this. That statement/comment whatever one wants to call it has bothered me ever since the first time Ron said it. I was just re-watching the clip today and even now, almost one year later..I still find it one of the oddest things he could have said. Your child is missing and you have NO idea what has become of her. When asked about HaLeigh, Ronald (in between his falling to the ground theatrics) starts telling about how well behaved and well mannered she is.. :waitasec: WHERE does that come from?! He doesn't start by saying how sweet and loving she is, etc....but about her manners?! I can't imagine what kind of mindset a parent would have for that to be the first thing out of their mouths...Very Strange, imo..

 

[Donjeta]

bbm~
Whisperer, interesting that you would mention this. That statement/comment whatever one wants to call it has bothered me ever since the first time Ron said it. I was just re-watching the clip today and even now, almost one year later..I still find it one of the oddest things he could have said. Your child is missing and you have NO idea what has become of her. When asked about HaLeigh, Ronald (in between his falling to the ground theatrics) starts telling about how well behaved and well mannered she is.. :waitasec: WHERE does that come from?! He doesn't start by saying how sweet and loving she is, etc....but about her manners?! I can't imagine what kind of mindset a parent would have for that to be the first thing out of their mouths...Very Strange, imo..

She was the most well-mannered child I've ever had...

Two thoughts:
1. This is somebody who thinks his child is dead.
2. Her misbehaving might have had something to do with it.

 

[Donjeta]

Maybe she's resigned to the inevitable: you can deny rumors up to a point but once they're out there the truth will come out.

 

[Baznme]

She was the most well-mannered child I've ever had...

Two thoughts:
1. This is somebody who thinks his child is dead.
2. Her misbehaving might have had something to do with it.

along with these other statements he made. (Posted by Whisperer in July of '09.)



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