Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh ? #6

[elle1919]

Thank you elle. There is misleading information in these reports. For example we know JO did not leave Satsuma the same morning HaLeigh disappeared like this article alleges he did. IIRC, you posted the photo of Joe hanging HaLeigh's poster in the convenience store with a young female. "Sources close to the investigation also confirmed Thursday that Croslin's cousin visited from Tennessee and left the same morning Haleigh disappeared.~ end

Matt Saffer also interviewed Chelsea Croslin and reported on the blue van after it was returned so AH isn't the only one who did. "More specific information about the van and Joe and the scratches, etc etc all came from AH in an interview with the Croslin family. "

Hey there Bluesky, Don't you wish we could count on the media to check out their so called facts before reporting them to the public?

I know the picture you are referring to very well. I was so curious about it that I emailed Larry Sullivan at Palatka Daily News. I did forward the email to Kimster so that she could verify it was indeed from the editor. He replied to me that the date on the picture was a misprint( the date was 2/16) and that the picture was actually taken on the morning that Haleigh went missing. So, Joe could have left that day. I posted the email here about a month ago I guess: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The cousin that visited....

It's hard to keep all this info straight. lol

 

[Concerned Papa]

I am always surprised how each of us remember things differently, so I thought I would go back and take a look at exactly when and how Joe was introduced.

We see the mention of RC fighting with a man here: http://www.ocala.com/article/20090218/ARTICLES/902181004/1402/NEWS?p=3&tc=pg

2/18 Snip~Relatives and friends mentioned that officers were checking into reports Cummings had recently been in an argument with a man who had been at the home but who left before Haleigh disappeared. Officers are reportedly checking this man's criminal history~end

Also on the 18th we have the Carrabba's sighting in Tennessee

2/18 Snip~ snip~SATSUMA, FL -- The mother, father and grandmother of Haleigh Cummings made a swift visit to the Putnam County Sheriff's Office Wednesday afternoon.
Marie Griffis, Haleigh's grandmother, told First Coast News that deputies had told her to pick up Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh's mother, and take her to the Sheriff's Office.
Haleigh's father, Ronald Cummings, was taken there by the lead detective in the case.
The flurry of activity came hours after a news conference where investigators announced little, except the tip about Misty Croslin not being at the house when Haleigh vanished.
Capt. Dick Schauland said the tip is one of 1,200 under investigation.
Also, the Tennessee Highway Patrol confirms a witness claimed to have seen a man with a girl matching Haleigh's description at a Carrabba's in Knoxville Sunday afternoon.
There was a brief search which resulted in nothing.
Marie Griffis says the family is taking the tips with a grain of salt until detectives can say whether it's valid.~ end

Also 2/18 Then this: Then this http://www.wesh.com/news/18743397/detail.html

snip~ Croslin, 17, was picked up by two detectives Thursday to be taken in for questioning. Hardy said Croslin was not arrested, and she will be released sometime later Thursday.
Sources close to the investigation also confirmed Thursday that Croslin's cousin visited from Tennessee and left the same morning Haleigh disappeared.~ end

2/18 in the evening Next, more on the fight...~ http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131661&catid=3

snip~Family members of Ronald Cummings say he got into a fight with another man over a gun one day before his daughter disappeared.
A relative told First Coast News Cummings accused the other man of stealing a gun. The relative could not remember the name of the man or where the fight happened.~ end

The video with Teresa N and Crystal Cummings that you talked about where they announced Joe and their suspicions of him is here: http://www.cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer...Local&title=Family Of Haleigh Cummings Speaks

I watched the video again and TN and CC said they were informed about Joe by the media and Misty. They didn't even know his name, other than Joe, Law Enforcement and TN seemed to not want to discuss Joe, in the LE press conference earlier in the day Sheriff hardy stated Misty was at the police station as he spoke being interviewed again.

More specific information about the van and Joe and the scratches, etc etc all came from AH in an interview with the Croslin family. In my opinion if anyone was trying to make q scapegoat or Red Herring of Joe Overstreet it wasn't TN or RC....it was Misty and her family. Maybe they honestly were suspicious of him, maybe Misty was suspicious of him....who knows, I can't figure these people out, I deleted my last sentence because i really don't know what the truth is or what to think or believe.

Elle, you have done the research to clearly support that the "Cousin Joe did it" accusations started on February 18th. Your articles show that the accusations came from various family members and friends including TN, MC, CC, and the Croslins. Many other articles and videos are out there and completely validate the information first coming from Cummings family and friends on February 18th.

However, your article referencing the alleged Carrabba's sighting contains other information also:

The flurry of activity came hours after a news conference where investigators announced little, except the tip about Misty Croslin not being at the house when Haleigh vanished.

All of this finger pointing at Cousin Joe began the very same day, after LE announced receiving the tip about MIsty not being at home.

I didn't use the term "Red Herring" in any of my posts, but after reviewing the definition, I wish I had:

Red Herring

- A clue that is misleading or that has been falsified, intended to divert attention

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/red_herring

After reading this statement made February 22 from Capt. Dick Schauland of the PCSO, the term seems to be an idiom that fits:

A man who visited Haleigh Cummings' family in Satsuma and returned to Tennessee the day she disappeared is not a suspect, police said Saturday as the frustrating search for the missing 5-year-old continued.

Capt. Dick Schauland of the Putnam County Sheriff's Office told reporters during an afternoon briefing that the man, a cousin of Haleigh's father's girlfriend, was interviewed after detectives learned of him early in the investigation and was subsequently ruled out.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...cousin_not_a_suspect_in_haleigh_cummings_case

After 14 months, I take no pleasure in the only conclusion I can draw being one of belief that the family and friends of a missing 5 year old child misdirected LE in their efforts to investigate the disappearance.

It both saddens and disgusts me.

 

[Crosby87]

Hey there Bluesky, Don't you wish we could count on the media to check out their so called facts before reporting them to the public?

I know the picture you are referring to very well. I was so curious about it that I emailed Larry Sullivan at Palatka Daily News. I did forward the email to Kimster so that she could verify it was indeed from the editor. He replied to me that the date on the picture was a misprint( the date was 2/16) and that the picture was actually taken on the morning that Haleigh went missing. So, Joe could have left that day. I posted the email here about a month ago I guess: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The cousin that visited....

It's hard to keep all this info straight. lol

elle, this is an extremely complex case which requires the painstaking efforts of dedicated team members in order to keep us going all on track, and on the same page. That's a tall order LOL! I'll be leaving the forum soon to work.

I was under the impression that Joe wanted to avoid being seen in public at all costs after HaLeigh disappeared so he snuck back into Timmy's house, collected his belongings and fled PC without saying goodbye; obviously this isn't true since he was kind enough to distribute HaLeigh's posters around town.

Is Hank Sr annoyed that two of his children are in jail and not Joe? He seems to be a defeated & bitter man with violent tendencies (threatening to shove a gun down Joe's mouth to get answers from him). TM alleged RC was going to do the same to Misty to get answers about HaLeigh’s whereabouts.

Hank Sr told Tommy he didn't think Joe could do something to HaLeigh and I suspect the only reason Joe would take HaLeigh would be to help Misty dispose of her body IF HaLeigh died accidently at home. No other reason makes sense to me. Joe is street wise and knows he is safe unless LE recover HaLeigh's body, so why would he care if Misty points the finger at him? Big deal! I actually think he may have told her to. He isn't living in Satsuma so he is free to go on with his life and he has handled LE and all the public scrutiny he's faced so far. Wonder if LE is keeping tabs on him in TN the same way LE watched Ron, Misty and Tommy in PC? Perhap Joe cleaned up his act and is being a good boy in order to stay out of trouble unlike his cousins?

What amazes me about Hank and Lisa, is that Hank Sr seems okay with a wife who goes out and commits crimes with their children. I guess they determine who commits the crime according to their plan. I suppose I am stereotyping but I thought most men would be protective of their wives and not allow this. For an example, why didn't Hank Sr go to MM's with Tommy to steal cheques and a gun and leave Lisa safe at home?

Anyone know when Tommy is allowed private visits with his wife? I think the correct term is conjugal visits?

 

[lonetraveler]

I pulled up Misty's poly, Leveled Voice Analysis and hypnosis information the other day and posted it on this thread. Something jumped out at me while listening to them that I had not caught before. Just in case one of you didn't catch this info before I'll share what I heard. Misty was talking about finding the gun in this part. She said that her brother Tommy, Cousin Joe and brother Timmy came over to the Mh the day that the gun was supposedly stolen. After they left, it was noticed that the gun was gone.

(Well, the part that I noticed for the first time was that Timmy was also there with Joe and Tommy that day. For some reason I have not noticed this statement before) Then Misty goes on to talk about Timmy, that Timmy would have never stolen the gun, he was the one both she and Ron trusted. Misty wanted to make sure that everyone understood that Timmy was never suspect in the theft. I'm wondering just how Joe supposedly stole the gun without either of the two brothers not knowing that he had it, since they came over together.:waitasec:

Just wanted to share this.

 

[Whisperer]

I thought conjugal visits were only for State and Federal inmates...but anything could change.

 

[Whisperer]

If ron found his gun missing, he track that person down like a hound dog...I have no doubt..rc LOVES his guns and they are his "heart". I can see the smoke blowing out his ears if he discovers one of his guns missing and misty would bear the brunt of it if she was there. In fact I can see him responding the exact same way he did on that 911 call...yelling and cursing at misty on "How could you let my gun get stole, b#$#h?"

 

[elle1919]

Hi there Papa..

My concern was where the "cousin Joe did it" originated from. In none of the articles that I read did anyone say Cousin Joe did anything to or with Haleigh. Ronald denied he was around( and I believe he was), TN didn't admit to knowing anything other than his first name( and I believe she did, because if Haleigh's was my granddaughter I would have made it my business to know EVERYTHING) For some reason the Cummings didn't want the information about Joe out there, in my opinion.

The bigger and more explanatory finger pointing at Joe came from his own relatives, via Art Harris. Misty never said a word about the scratched van, the moved van, Joe being dressed in his clothes all night, Chelsea not trusting Joe or being able to account for his where-a-bouts....etc..etc..These things all came from her.

I don't know what the truth is, who does? Law Enforcement did not rule out Joe Overstreet though, they haven't ruled out anyone. The FBI was in Tennessee interviewing Joe Overstreet in late September 2009, according to Grandmother Flora Hollers so I ask why would that happen, for hours as she described, to someone who is cleared?

I applaud you being able to come to a conclusion, I just haven't been able to do that yet with all the lies and misinformation in this case, so I keep looking for clues.

 

[elle1919]

elle, this is an extremely complex case which requires the painstaking efforts of dedicated team members in order to keep us going all on track, and on the same page. That's a tall order LOL! I'll be leaving the forum soon to work.

I was under the impression that Joe wanted to avoid being seen in public at all costs after HaLeigh disappeared so he snuck back into Timmy's house, collected his belongings and fled PC without saying goodbye; obviously this isn't true since he was kind enough to distribute HaLeigh's posters around town.

Is Hank Sr annoyed that two of his children are in jail and not Joe? He seems to be a defeated & bitter man with violent tendencies (threatening to shove a gun down Joe's mouth to get answers from him). TM alleged RC was going to do the same to Misty to get answers about HaLeigh’s whereabouts.

Hank Sr told Tommy he didn't think Joe could do something to HaLeigh and I suspect the only reason Joe would take HaLeigh would be to help Misty dispose of her body IF HaLeigh died accidently at home. No other reason makes sense to me. Joe is street wise and knows he is safe unless LE recover HaLeigh's body, so why would he care if Misty points the finger at him? Big deal! I actually think he may have told her to. He isn't living in Satsuma so he is free to go on with his life and he has handled LE and all the public scrutiny he's faced so far. Wonder if LE is keeping tabs on him in TN the same way LE watched Ron, Misty and Tommy in PC? Perhap Joe cleaned up his act and is being a good boy in order to stay out of trouble unlike his cousins?

What amazes me about Hank and Lisa, is that Hank Sr seems okay with a wife who goes out and commits crimes with their children. I guess they determine who commits the crime according to their plan. I suppose I am stereotyping but I thought most men would be protective of their wives and not allow this. For an example, why didn't Hank Sr go to MM's with Tommy to steal cheques and a gun and leave Lisa safe at home?

Anyone know when Tommy is allowed private visits with his wife? I think the correct term is conjugal visits?

bold by me....wow.....they do this? Shows what I know! LOL

 

[Whisperer]

Yes, there are trailers within the prison walls used by inmates for weekend visits with their wife and children....try that one on for size..!! Certain trailers even have swing sets outside.

....it is appalling in my opinion for certain inmates to have their children there overnight but people know it is all about the prisoner's rights.

Some say it keeps them calm and something to look forward to once or twice a year.

If the public really knew what goes on in the prison world, they would be shocked...well, most of them, like us would be appalled but the bleeding hearts would love it.

 

[Emeralgem]

Yes, there are trailers within the prison walls used by inmates for weekend visits with their wife and children....try that one on for size..!! Certain trailers even have swing sets outside.

....it is appalling in my opinion for certain inmates to have their children there overnight but people know it is all about the prisoner's rights.

Some say it keeps them calm and something to look forward to once or twice a year.

If the public really knew what goes on in the prison world, they would be shocked...well, most of them, like us would be appalled but the bleeding hearts would love it.

Not me.. O/T.. I saw that interview with Richard Speck before he died where he was sitting in a jail cell with his boy toy, wearing women's undies and pumped with steroids so his breasts would grow..I even recall him making a statement to the fact.. "IF they knew how much fun I was having in prison they would have never sent me here"..Totally disgusting our penal system allows that kind of behavior.. I'm infuriated by it, but it doesn't shock me...JMO

 

[Crosby87]

<snipped from CP&#8217;s in response to elle&#8217;s post to save space>&#8230;

Your articles show that the accusations came from various family members and friends including TN, MC, CC, and the Croslins. &#8230;

Really? TN came out and directly accused Joe of taking HaLeigh? I don&#8217;t recall hearing TN name Joe as a suspect or anyone else for that matter. I remember TN said she didn&#8217;t know Joe and she didn&#8217;t think to check him out seeing that he was Misty&#8217;s relative; and Crystal Cummings said Joe wasn&#8217;t a good person for HaLeigh to be around. (paraphrased) IIRC, TN later said we don&#8217;t care who it implicates.

Will we ever get to read the letter Misty wrote to her father and Chelsea where she says Joe and Tommy couldn&#8217;t find Ron&#8217;s gun so Joe took HaLeigh instead?

I believe conjugal visits are allowed in prisons but I am not sure what FL laws are concerning this privilege.

 

[Crosby87]

Yes, there are trailers within the prison walls used by inmates for weekend visits with their wife and children....try that one on for size..!! Certain trailers even have swing sets outside.

....it is appalling in my opinion for certain inmates to have their children there overnight but people know it is all about the prisoner's rights.

Some say it keeps them calm and something to look forward to once or twice a year.

If the public really knew what goes on in the prison world, they would be shocked...well, most of them, like us would be appalled but the bleeding hearts would love it.

Will Crystal Sheffield take Junior to visit his father?

 

[Emeralgem]

<snipped from CP’s in response to elle’s post to save space>…

Your articles show that the accusations came from various family members and friends including TN, MC, CC, and the Croslins. …

Really? TN came out and directly accused Joe of taking HaLeigh? I don’t recall hearing TN name Joe as a suspect or anyone else for that matter. I remember TN said she didn’t know Joe and she didn’t think to check him out seeing that he was Misty’s relative; and Crystal Cummings said Joe wasn’t a good person for HaLeigh to be around. (paraphrased) IIRC, TN later said we don’t care who it implicates.

Will we ever get to read the letter Misty wrote to her father and Chelsea where she says Joe and Tommy couldn’t find Ron’s gun so Joe took HaLeigh instead?

I believe conjugal visits are allowed in prisons but I am not sure what FL laws are concerning this privilege.

BBM.. Do you recall TN stating IF Misty doesn't trust him than neither do I?

I do...JMO

 

[Mysterylover]

Has the thought crossed anyone's mind, that Misty may have cut her phone off, and taken out the batteries that night so the cell phone 'pings' could not be traced ?
Just making-up an excuse for LE that she was avoiding Ron's calls.

I suspect if she had actually avoided R's phone calls, he would have came looking for her, without making the 90 calls, regardless of his job, or atleast sent his Mother to check on the kids.
He certainly would not have stopped for cigarettes and snacks...imo

Correct me if I'm wrong, I remember reading when R. and M. was getting the divorce that R. had 3 vehicles....

 

[elle1919]

<snipped from CP’s in response to elle’s post to save space>…

Your articles show that the accusations came from various family members and friends including TN, MC, CC, and the Croslins. …

Really? TN came out and directly accused Joe of taking HaLeigh? I don’t recall hearing TN name Joe as a suspect or anyone else for that matter. I remember TN said she didn’t know Joe and she didn’t think to check him out seeing that he was Misty’s relative; and Crystal Cummings said Joe wasn’t a good person for HaLeigh to be around. (paraphrased) IIRC, TN later said we don’t care who it implicates.

Will we ever get to read the letter Misty wrote to her father and Chelsea where she says Joe and Tommy couldn’t find Ron’s gun so Joe took HaLeigh instead?

I believe conjugal visits are allowed in prisons but I am not sure what FL laws are concerning this privilege.

You know what I can't figure out Blue...why did TN and RC want to deflect away from Joe, it seems like they didn't even want to talk about him. I don't know, maybe that is just me not seeing the whole picture. I remember that many people thought RC was denying the fight over the gun, and TN was saying the opposite of what he was. I never believed there was a "fight" over the gun, because ...well....I just didn't think RC caught back up with the person he thought stole it yet.

We are missing so many pieces, I wish LE would confirm or negate something!.....anything.

 

[Whisperer]

OT:fftopic:

When I first arrived at the prison, I was confused because I saw female inmates and knew I was in a male prison..??

Come to find out they were in the process of sex change...paid for by the State. Now this group of people provide many services for the male inmates such as keeping their clothing presentable. Love aside, their shirts are pressed and the shoes are spotless and jeans are immaculate..one can tell the guys that use their services.

As this continued and their looks were turning to very feminine, the state pulled a good one...the State decided that if they were going to go completely female at State Expense, then they were going to be shipped to a Female Prison...LOL.

They want NO part of that and things went very quiet and the demands for hormones provided with the intention of sex change came to a halt....

 

[mysticrose]

Has the thought crossed anyone's mind, that Misty may have cut her phone off, and taken out the batteries that night so the cell phone 'pings' could not be traced ?
Just making-up an excuse for LE that she was avoiding Ron's calls.

I suspect if she had actually avoided R's phone calls, he would have came looking for her, without making the 90 calls, regardless of his job, or atleast sent his Mother to check on the kids.
He certainly would not have stopped for cigarettes and snacks...imo

Correct me if I'm wrong, I remember reading when R. and M. was getting the divorce that R. had 3 vehicles....

Thank you for a great post...the Bold above for some reason keeps popping up in my mind.
Did Ron send his mom over and she found Misty not home took the kids and something happened to Haleigh while in TN's care ? And set Misty up for the fall knowing full well Misty wasn't home, so how would she know really what happened .

This also could be why TN was in the area so quickly after the 911 call.

This may also be why the flurry of phone calls from Ron making sure Misty still wasn't home, and then sending Tommy over to check the MH knowing it would help tie up loose ends....
Am I making any sense here ? They just seem so hell bent on nailing Misty down, but then they do weird stuff like text her and tell her Donna is a rat. I think they do it to make her believe they believe in her and to keep her close so they know what info she may be giving out that may tip their hand ...
jmo...

 

[mysticrose]

I wonder how much they have actually check in to TN's where abouts that night, is that why they are so keyed on Misty (LE) because if she will just admit she wasn't home it may open a whole new world in the case.... I do not believe she was home that night ...jmo

 

[Whisperer]

Could have a point. I am still in shock over pressors we get from LE. Can't make heads or tails out of what we are being told. Greenwood tells us TN was the one there. How can LE make so many mistakes in Pressors. I keep getting confused. Is this being done on purpose or are they misinformed. If misinformed, why don't they make a public correction on what they told the press.....grrr.

 

[mysticrose]

The other thing that bothers me is that GGM is the one who took JR. down to LE or whoever for questioning. Anything could have been put in that little boys mind on the drive there for him to say, anything.