Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[eddeva]

Hi eddeva!

Yes, I think her question was where to buy chloroform, because I think she was wondering where Casey bought chloroform...I was just stating that the post you made indicated maybe Casey hadn't bought it at all...

Do you recall the name of the person who posted what you read, or what thread you read it in? Would love to trace this info to its source and see what kind of confirmation there is...

i've found the post i originally read. it doesn't say that annie may have worked for a vet, i must have read speculation on that somewhere else (it's about 6wks ago now) but pretty much everything else is there. actually the whole thread makes for very interesting reading on that topic.
i'm quite sure that this is what i read.
here's the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2&highlight=annie+dogs+chloroform#post2957332

 

[LLC]

My problem with it being an accident is her lack of emotion, wouldn't you be a little bit upset if it was not what you expected to happen? A few posts up we discuss blockbusters, and how she is not up set in the least. If I accidentally step on my dog, I have some reaction to it.

I agree with KC's lack of emotion on any level. I wonder, in the quiet moments, if she is tortured with her own thoughts?

 

[eddeva]

I agree with KC's lack of emotion on any level. I wonder, in the quiet moments, if she is tortured with her own thoughts?

imho, not in a thousand years.

 

[Angelfire]

(bold mine) No. IMO you've just stated the case for a flurry of panicked calls for help, versus checking to ensure no one's on their way who might "catch her in the act" of killing Caylee there at the house--since according to you calls continued after she'd left the house. After which, when repeated calls continued to be ignored, KC may have simply lost all hope--along w her nerve--and begun contriving a cover-up. JMO





(bold mine) Yet hardly thru the "eyes of a child" as children by nature are, in my experience, not the least vindictive but rather incredibly forgiving.



Agree. This coincidental 'landscaping' struck me as rather oddly timed as well. JMO



A desperate, inept attempt (postmortem) to distance herself from responsibility for negligence by creating the appearance of an especially heinous random murder perpetrated by a stranger. Also, it would seem (along w strangulation) unlikely that the cause was (4) or (7) either given there actually was never any indication by anyone that KC had ever previously been the least violent whatsoever w Caylee but a consensus to the contrary. JMO



Faye didn't even make landfall (in Naples FL) until August 19/20. While I agree Caylee's remains may have been left in trunk several days or as much as a week before she felt she couldn't possibly risk any longer possible discovery of remains in her trunk, I personally believe at this point KC disposed--vs buried--those remains in a location which, prior to Faye appeared readily discoverable, had they not been submerged, w/in a matter of weeks, beneath three feet of water. JMO



ITA

Thank you kiki for your observation but I did not intend what I wrote to be considered as a fact. I don't think a 2 year said anything that I wrote. I was just writing this as an idea of what I think KC did to her daughter. Nothing more, nothing less and as you say, JMO

 

[Angelfire]

Cross posted on the sticky thread for 6/16...

Sorry if someone has noticed this already, but if so, I haven't seen it. On the calendar thread, it shows the "flurry of calls" on 6/16 after 4pm...for some reason, I couldn't quote it to post it here. I have heard people suggest that either these were panicky "what do I do?" calls, or that they were KC's way of making sure GA and CA were not quite on their way home yet and that the coast was clear. Here's what I noticed today...
The calls begin around 4:10...the last one, to GA is at 4:18....these still ping near A's house until the 4:18 somewhere on Chickasaw trail. By the 4:25 ping, she is pinging near AL's....Looking at the other times she has made this trek, I think it's about a 15 min drive from TL to CA/GA. It could even be longer, because the pings would still show at the A's even up to a few miles away, and the pings would show AL's up to a few miles before she arrived, and vice versa, correct??? But being conservative, let's say it's a fifteen minute drive...this means that when the first call in the flurry started, she was likely pulling out of her driveway to be pinging near AL at 4:25...

That means before 4:10 she's not only had to kill Caylee (if you go with that theory as I do), she's also had to place her in the trunk, get her purse, keys, laptop, cellphone, maybe change clothes and/or pack a bag...whether this all took her two minutes, or ten, etc., I now have a harder time seeing these as "cry for help" calls...because if she did all of these things after the calls, there is no way she is pinging near AL's at 4:25...and it doesn't make sense to think she said "I need help!" then went and did all these things, put Caylee in the car and then said, well, all that's done...guess I'll call for help now...calling for help is an urgent, immediate action...Anyone agree?

I totally agree with you, I don't see her panicking and calling for help. I at first thought she was looking for a sitter so she could dump Caylee and go to Tonys but now I'm not sure that could have been the reason. If she really was trying to call someone to let them know what happened she would have left a message on one of the calls. I think you are certainly right about that.

 

[LLC]

imho, not in a thousand years.

I guess you're right. How can a human being have absolutely no conscience at all? Especially when killing your own child?

She doesn't seemed fazed be being in jail either. Wasn't the whole point of her doing this to have freedom? I will be glued to my tv when this trial begins.

 

[MUGENDAI]

about that flurry of phone calls, if they were cries for help, she would've left voice messages. Something like: "omg, mom!! Something's happened to caylee!!! Call me!!!!!!!!"

the a's would've heard those messages and known that something terrible had taken place, and thus, would not have waited a month to go looking for them. Now, i know it could be construed that the a's did, in fact, hear such messages, but by then it was too late to save caylee, so they proceeded to enact a cover up to save the tart mom.

I lean toward option b, myself. She was tying to determine either their whereabouts.

I don't recall reading or hearing any mention of the a's voice messages. Sure would like to know if she left any.

"tart mom"! =d

 

[eddeva]

I guess you're right. How can a human being have absolutely no conscience at all? Especially when killing your own child?

She doesn't seemed fazed be being in jail either. Wasn't the whole point of her doing this to have freedom? I will be glued to my tv when this trial begins.

if you were totally colour blind and your child's life depended on you picking out green from blue you still wouldn't be able to do it. casey has ZERO conscience and it doesn't matter whether it pertains to a little white lie or murdering her child, she just doesn't have a conscience, she doesn't have remorse, she doesn't have guilt and ANY emotion she does experience is so shallow, so weak, that being imprisoned cannot even make her experience more than a fairly mid-level depression. not true depression, just the blues.
this is why i still want the DP.

 

[kiki the parrot]

No, Kiki, if you meant to copy my post, I was attempting to point out that in the case of an accident, a panicked mother looking for help would begin calling for help immediately, not after she placed the body in the trunk and packed all her belongings...this is a child in danger...there is a sense of urgency...the calls are made as she is leaving the house...probably just checking to see where GA/CA are, especially CA since she comes home around that time...remember, GA sees CA leave for work at 12:50, so it would make no sense for her to be seen near the home now....she wants to know where CA/GA are in case she needs to alter her route to avoid being seen where she shouldn't be...

About that flurry of phone calls, if they were cries for help, she would've left voice messages. Something like: "OMG, MOM!! SOMETHING'S HAPPENED TO CAYLEE!!! CALL ME!!!!!!!!"

The A's would've heard those messages and known that something terrible had taken place, and thus, would not have waited a month to go looking for them. Now, I know it could be construed that the A's did, in fact, hear such messages, but by then it was too late to save Caylee, so they proceeded to enact a cover up to save the tart mom.

I lean toward option B, myself. She was tying to determine either their whereabouts.

I don't recall reading or hearing any mention of the A's voice messages. Sure would like to know if she left any.

Once again, there is nothing about KC's reaction that is remotely how we expect any mature, reasonable, responsible, adult to act following an accident! But we're not talking about that, we're talking about a selfish, narcissistic, immature, irresponsible "unfit" mom (as per her own mother's constant repeated criticisms) who is now panicstricken and above all FEAR- and GUILT-ridden. Whatever took place occurred there at A house within the short span of an hour--between 3pm and 4pm. Were it KC's own negligence that was responsible (for Caylee drowning eg), and KC had ignored her daughter (thinking she's in the playhouse eg) and only got around to investigating and discovering this (after as much as an hour eg), it seems likely she may have feared (and with good reason though inexcusable to neither report nor attempt to render aid) or concluded Caylee was beyond all hope of revival--or of ever returning to her former self. (In one jailhouse video, KC fantasizes w CA, I believe, about how they will all have Caylee back--and she will be "just as she was.") But because her response is not the response that a mature, unselfish, responsible person would have had in the face of a tragedy though simply does not prove that she planned or premeditated it. JMO

 

[Crafti]

if you were totally colour blind and your child's life depended on you picking out green from blue you still wouldn't be able to do it. casey has ZERO conscience and it doesn't matter whether it pertains to a little white lie or murdering her child, she just doesn't have a conscience, she doesn't have remorse, she doesn't have guilt and ANY emotion she does experience is so shallow, so weak, that being imprisoned cannot even make her experience more than a fairly mid-level depression. not true depression, just the blues.
this is why i still want the DP.

Your description above (bolded by me) explains that lack of conscience well, they just don't have it. I don't think they even understand what they are missing - or know they are missing it. They are shallow, contemplating and in control at all times.

 

[reeseeva]

Once again, there is nothing about KC's reaction that is remotely how we expect any mature, reasonable, responsible, adult to act following an accident! But we're not talking about that, we're talking about a selfish, narcissistic, immature, irresponsible "unfit" mom (as per her own mother's constant repeated criticisms) who is now panicstricken and above all FEAR- and GUILT-ridden. Whatever took place occurred there at A house within the short span of an hour--between 3pm and 4pm. Were it KC's own negligence that was responsible (for Caylee drowning eg), and KC had ignored her daughter (thinking she's in the playhouse eg) and only got around to investigating and discovering this (after as much as an hour eg), it seems likely she may have feared (and with good reason though inexcusable to neither report nor attempt to render aid) or concluded Caylee was beyond all hope of revival--or of ever returning to her former self. (In one jailhouse video, KC fantasizes w CA, I believe, about how they will all have Caylee back--and she will be "just as she was.") But because her response is not the response that a mature, unselfish, responsible person would have had in the face of a tragedy though simply does not prove that she planned or premeditated it. JMO

Your description above (bolded by me) explains that lack of conscience well, they just don't have it. I don't think they even understand what they are missing - or know they are missing it. They are shallow, contemplating and in control at all times.

:clap:

This pretty much sums it up.....Nothing left to say....Bravo!!

 

[DotsEyes]

If she was panicked and calling her parents for help and got no answer, why did she leave the house before CA got home? No, she was on her cell phone, chatting away as she drove from the house. Four hours later, she is shacked up with TonE. He noticed NOTHING unusual about her behavior.

I guess the panic was over, for good.

NOTHING panics KC.

 

[eddeva]

If she was panicked and calling her parents for help and got no answer, why did she leave the house before CA got home? No, she was on her cell phone, chatting away as she drove from the house. Four hours later, she is shacked up with TonE. He noticed NOTHING unusual about her behavior.

I guess the panic was over, for good.

NOTHING panics KC.

this post couldn't possibly be more OT and for that i apologize unequivocally .... but i gotta ask - why does everyone here call him TonE instead of just Tony?
it's been bugging me for months.
btw DotsEyes, psychopaths rarely, if ever in some cases, experience fear/panic/anxiety... i know sociopaths are slightly different but whether that's one of the differences or not i don't know.

 

[Devon]

Once again, there is nothing about KC's reaction that is remotely how we expect any mature, reasonable, responsible, adult to act following an accident! But we're not talking about that, we're talking about a selfish, narcissistic, immature, irresponsible "unfit" mom (as per her own mother's constant repeated criticisms) who is now panicstricken and above all FEAR- and GUILT-ridden. Whatever took place occurred there at A house within the short span of an hour--between 3pm and 4pm. Were it KC's own negligence that was responsible (for Caylee drowning eg), and KC had ignored her daughter (thinking she's in the playhouse eg) and only got around to investigating and discovering this (after as much as an hour eg), it seems likely she may have feared (and with good reason though inexcusable to neither report nor attempt to render aid) or concluded Caylee was beyond all hope of revival--or of ever returning to her former self. (In one jailhouse video, KC fantasizes w CA, I believe, about how they will all have Caylee back--and she will be "just as she was.") But because her response is not the response that a mature, unselfish, responsible person would have had in the face of a tragedy though simply does not prove that she planned or premeditated it. JMO

Bolded by me

In one of the jail visits with CA/GA she also says something like 'when we get Caylee back, I'm going to be an over-protective mom, I'm never going to let her out of my sight'. I thought that was an interesting comment. Of course, she may have been saying it in relation to the kidnapping story, but it's also possible that it had a different, more pertinent meaning.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I totally agree with you, I don't see her panicking and calling for help. I at first thought she was looking for a sitter so she could dump Caylee and go to Tonys but now I'm not sure that could have been the reason. If she really was trying to call someone to let them know what happened she would have left a message on one of the calls. I think you are certainly right about that.

Remember something folks. George had started a new job. Cindy was at work. Both working when those calls were being made. My best thought, again, is that she knew if they didn't answer their cell phones they were still at work. Had they answered...they would have been on their way home. She made the flurry of calls to check the timeline she had to be out of that house. Had she truly panicked and wanted to talk to them, she could have just phoned their workplace knowing they would have answered. JMO.

 

[Whisperer]

What is odd, though...in the first two weeks, Cindy nor George returned any calls.
Kc did all the "reaching out" (god, now I'm starting to type it, sheesh)

It was after the 30th, that ca and kc started speaking. I found that strange. You would think CA would be burning up the phone lines looking for Caylee. She could have reported the car stolen. She could have said she needed to make a "welfare check", I think the LE would have acomodated her. MO

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

if you were totally colour blind and your child's life depended on you picking out green from blue you still wouldn't be able to do it. casey has ZERO conscience and it doesn't matter whether it pertains to a little white lie or murdering her child, she just doesn't have a conscience, she doesn't have remorse, she doesn't have guilt and ANY emotion she does experience is so shallow, so weak, that being imprisoned cannot even make her experience more than a fairly mid-level depression. not true depression, just the blues.
this is why i still want the DP.

I agree with most of what you wrote, except the conscience. I believe she certainly does have a conscience...she is just plain evil and self centered and picks and chooses what she wishes to have a conscience about and which she chooses to justify. Someone that has no conscience....would be somebody like Jeff Dahmer. People with no conscience do not just up and kill one person...they are usual repeat offenders, or as we know...serial killers...and usually go way back in their childhood at the onset of signs. (killing small animals, etc.)
Does she have remorse? For her actions, no. I believe she justifies everything.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Once again, there is nothing about KC's reaction that is remotely how we expect any mature, reasonable, responsible, adult to act following an accident! But we're not talking about that, we're talking about a selfish, narcissistic, immature, irresponsible "unfit" mom (as per her own mother's constant repeated criticisms) who is now panicstricken and above all FEAR- and GUILT-ridden. Whatever took place occurred there at A house within the short span of an hour--between 3pm and 4pm. Were it KC's own negligence that was responsible (for Caylee drowning eg), and KC had ignored her daughter (thinking she's in the playhouse eg) and only got around to investigating and discovering this (after as much as an hour eg), it seems likely she may have feared (and with good reason though inexcusable to neither report nor attempt to render aid) or concluded Caylee was beyond all hope of revival--or of ever returning to her former self. (In one jailhouse video, KC fantasizes w CA, I believe, about how they will all have Caylee back--and she will be "just as she was.") But because her response is not the response that a mature, unselfish, responsible person would have had in the face of a tragedy though simply does not prove that she planned or premeditated it. JMO

Personally, I think you can remove the word "guilt-ridden". I don't see any of her actions following "the day" as any guilt whatsoever.

 

[Whisperer]

:waitasec:

Casey didn't offer the key story, it was only after Cindy asked "Has someone else been in the house?" .....perfect opening for Casey, but at first she says "I don't know , "She has a key, I told you that" I'd like to hear LE ask Cindy if she was ever told that??....my guess, Absolutely NOT!!! Never meeting this person that has a key to your house:waitasec:

I bet she wrapped her in a sheet or comforter...most likely from Caylee's room...if so, Cindy had to know it was missing. Knowing Cindy, she wouldn't report it.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Remember something folks. George had started a new job. Cindy was at work. Both working when those calls were being made. My best thought, again, is that she knew if they didn't answer their cell phones they were still at work. Had they answered...they would have been on their way home. She made the flurry of calls to check the timeline she had to be out of that house. Had she truly panicked and wanted to talk to them, she could have just phoned their workplace knowing they would have answered. JMO.

According to the leaked records, Casey made six calls to her parents on the afternoon of June 16, with the first call at 3:03pm to her father's cell phone and the last of the six made to her mom's cell phone at 4:24. During that time she also tried her mother at work and called her ex-fiancé, Jesse Grund.

The next day, June 17, neighbors told investigators that Casey borrowed a shovel from them. Then, on June 18, there was another spike in calls to her parents, six in 45 minutes during the early part of the afternoon. According to the leaked records, three calls were made to her parent's home phone, two to her mom's cell phone and one to her dad's cell phone, all between 12:33pm and 1:11pm.