Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[JWG]

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15.

I think the claim she spoke to Caylee on the 15th was a spur of the moment turd she tossed out there to get LE to pause for a moment. She came up with it 2 seconds before she tossed it out there, IMO.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes she is always "thinking on her feet" like that Guess she thought this could eventually distance her in time from the death of her daughter--as according to her story 31 days had lapsed since she'd been w Caylee but still needed to "prove" Caylee was alive when she last saw her. (I mean, gee, I wonder if LE's figured that one out by now, geeesh... JMO

 

[cyberborg]

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15. I don't agree that Caylee need have been longterm handicap or hindrance to KC's lifestyle or that this was a motive, since CA was offering to continue caregiving. As for that particular night, we know the following: KC and CA had fought the night prior (Father's Day), making it less likely KC, if CA knows she is still staying there, is gonna ask CA to babysit; but we also know that GA does see both girls (it's CA whom KC's avoiding) and that when he leaves for work and says goodbye to them that day, KC tells him she has to "work a late event" so not, I think, to expect either of them--as they'll "just stay at the nanny's." (Please, if you can point me to any actual document or transcript re "having nowhere for Caylee," bolded above, in which someone specifically quotes or recalls KC referring to this dilemma, I have not seen!) Maybe KC just lies to GA to avoid an argument, but planning to bring Caylee back after they're both asleep. But the whole question and in my mind, quite possibly the whole case, hinges upon this: Had AL ever agreed (via text mssgs or in long phonecall the previous nite eg) to allow KC to bring Caylee along on this occasion? What I wouldn't give to read text mssgs. between them from 7/15 and 16 (not yet released, that I can find nor can I find a transcript referring to content of their 80 min. phonecall). It's never made sense to me though that KC would have just simply "offed" her daughter to be "free," when all she had to do was leave Caylee, pack her bags--and play house w AL. JMO

I find that hard too but something happened that day, KC moved into AL's absent Caylee and was happy.

See http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3127552&postcount=362

 

[JWG]

I find that hard too but something happened that day, KC moved into AL's absent Caylee and was happy.

See http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3127552&postcount=362

Let's be careful here with the evidence.

If George told the truth and saw Caylee on June 16, Casey talked to Tony about moving in with him in the early morning hours while Caylee was alive.

I have not seen this in any interview with Tony. In fact, he never refers to her as having moved in, only as spending the night frequently.

Tony says Casey can come, but NOT Caylee.

Tony suggests that his apartment is not the best place to bring a two-year old on a regular basis (due to the partying), but never tells KC not to bring her. Tony seems to be the person acting like an adult here.

Casey doesn't bother to pack anything for Caylee, but DOES pack up stuff for HERSELF to bring to Tony's apartment. (According to Cindy, Tony and Lee)

Perhaps true, but Tony does not think of KC as even living in the apartment before July. He does not allow her to stay there while he is in NY.

 

[txsvicki]

If it was premeditated, Casey could have cooked up a kidnap with ransom plot in order to get a bunch of money from her parents. Everything points to premeditation and not accident. Even looking up shovel indicates a need to know which type of shovel would best dig.

 

[cyberborg]

Let's be careful here with the evidence.
[snip]

Respectfully snipped.

O.k. thanks. I do remember the below a lot more clearly than what I just read. This is an intriguing period on June 15/16 where we lose track of Caylee but KC is seen with AL happy. I do also remember she was trying to move her way in to AL's, over time, rather than a planned move in. She was still mobile among her friends.

Tony suggests that his apartment is not the best place to bring a two-year old on a regular basis (due to the partying), but never tells KC not to bring her. Tony seems to be the person acting like an adult here.

 

[BondJamesBond]

w.r.t. Tony's frame of mind regarding Casey's 'living' @ the apartment I snipped the following from another post for convenience sake...bolded re: "moving".

I inserted some dates in brackets [] as examples. These can also be shifted forward and still make sense (e.g. 6/15 vs. 6/10, etc.)

From Tony interview transcript (confusing because he talks about Casey's unprovoked cover-stories in the first paragraph...then goes back to talk about when it started):

Mom [Casey] has been…this is ah, the other thing. She’s been telling ah, me that..’cause she would go like, like without even me asking telling me out of just the blue just telling me just like, oh Caylee’s going to be with the nanny and they’re going to Disney. And I remember asking about it the next day I’m like, oh, what’s Caylee doing?

Like this happened like when she first started moving. You know what I’m saying? When this first happened when she first went…I guess grabbed most of her clothes [6/10] . And came back. And I’ll get into that a little…why she did that in a second [*account below] . But, um, basically she told me that she went to Disney [6/10] and then I told, that’s the next day [6/11] and she was like, yeah she gonna be at Disney , she’s going to Disney again [6/11 or 6/12] . I guess she got, they got a weekend pass [6/14-15] or something like that. And then I remember her telling me also, I remember I don’t (inaudible)…Next weekend [6/21-22] or the weekend after that [6/28-29] she said that they were going Cocoa Beach. And then she kept on saying that oh they stayed an extra day. And they’re gonna stay another day. I’m like, this became a thing like, oh..I was a little you know questioning, feel weird about that. But she would say that she talked to Caylee or she was going to visit Caylee. All the time. So, I mean…

Note: Tony travels to New York 6/30 – 7/5

Q: So, um, would she, would she like how often would you see her? Would you see her everyday or would you be..

A: Yes she pretty much shacked up here.

Q: Okay. So, when she said she was going to visit you’re in, you’re in class?

[Full Sail schedule discussionl]

Q: Right. Okay so what were you gonna tell me about her getting all

A: * Oh, oh the thing why she started staying here [6/10] I guess. Ah, she said this is what she told me. Her parents her parents are having some kind of huge dispute like. Um, she was telling me about how she hates her father. And how her father was cheating and has been cheating on her mom. And like her mom, ah, always is like I guess is not listening to what Casey’s saying to her. I guess to leave him. And this whole big dispute. And her reasoning for the whole thing of her being here and Caylee being @ the nanny’s is the fact that she didn’t want Caylee to be in the house while that was happening. And she couldn’t deal with it. And she used to tell me that she talked to her mom about how her mom’s glad that I’m here for Casey because she wouldn’t be able to go through what’s going on between the two parents if I wasn’t around and all this stuff….

Tony's account (albeit hard to read Tony-ese) ties very cleanly with Casey having creating a NEW, THIRD person/location to explain Caylee's whereabouts tied specifically first, to the week of 6/10 to set the stage, then, adapting it 6/16 to deal with Caylee’s death. Tony is adamant about the story being given exactly corresponding w/ Casey's move-in w/ her stuff [6/9], and later [post-6/15] Casey's insistence that she even tell him unprovoked, where Caylee was staying. I'm amazed that he gives the account of subsequent weekends, quite frankly. I also noted that "the beach" weekend agrees w/ the story Casey gave to Jesse G for Caylee's whereabouts on that same 6/28 weekend.

In the Casey-Tony relationship the NEW, THIRD person/location begat "nanny", nanny begat "zanny", and zanny begat ZFG.

 

[cyberborg]

w.r.t. Tony's frame of mind regarding Casey's 'living' @ the apartment I snipped the following from another post for convenience sake...bolded re: "moving".

I inserted some dates in brackets [] as examples. These can also be shifted forward and still make sense (e.g. 6/15 vs. 6/10, etc.)

Wow! This helps me a lot!!! Thanks.

This suggests to me not only conscience of guilt, that KC volunteers info on Caylee's whereabouts when not even asked but also that she does a ditto a few times before moving Caylee to a new location/excuse with the third party.

KC definitely sounds as if she was hustling to move in there and this snippet puts a lot together in terms of fake reasons why they cannot be home and Caylee is moved to Nanny / Zanny / ZFG land.

This must have bothered Tony but he thought whatever at first and went along with it but when KC was nabbed -- a horrid realization occurs to him.

 

[bessie]

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15. I don't agree that Caylee need have been longterm handicap or hindrance to KC's lifestyle or that this was a motive, since CA was offering to continue caregiving. As for that particular night, we know the following: KC and CA had fought the night prior (Father's Day), making it less likely KC, if CA knows she is still staying there, is gonna ask CA to babysit; but we also know that GA does see both girls (it's CA whom KC's avoiding) and that when he leaves for work and says goodbye to them that day, KC tells him she has to "work a late event" so not, I think, to expect either of them--as they'll "just stay at the nanny's." (Please, if you can point me to any actual document or transcript re "having nowhere for Caylee," bolded above, in which someone specifically quotes or recalls KC referring to this dilemma, I have not seen!) Maybe KC just lies to GA to avoid an argument, but planning to bring Caylee back after they're both asleep. But the whole question and in my mind, quite possibly the whole case, hinges upon this: Had AL ever agreed (via text mssgs or in long phonecall the previous nite eg) to allow KC to bring Caylee along on this occasion? What I wouldn't give to read text mssgs. between them from 7/15 and 16 (not yet released, that I can find nor can I find a transcript referring to content of their 80 min. phonecall). It's never made sense to me though that KC would have just simply "offed" her daughter to be "free," when all she had to do was leave Caylee, pack her bags--and play house w AL. JMO

There are no references to KC not having a place for Caylee to stay on the nights of June 15 or 16. According to AL's statement to police, there were several instances in late May and early June when KC either couldn't go out or had to return home because of Caylee.

One day during the last week of May (exact date undetermined), AL wanted KC to "hang out" with him and another couple (his friend Clint and Clint's gf). KC couldn't leave home because of Caylee. She told him that she was at "the nanny's" and "Caylee had awakened and wouldn't go back to sleep.

May 31st, AL played music at a pool party. KC attended. The two later took in a movie. AL wanted her to stay over, but she left in the "early morning hours" after a phone call from CA.

June 1st, the two attend a party at the Pegasus Apartments. KC doesn't spend the night.

Another night that week (established by investigators to be June 4th), AL and KC attend a party at Voyage Nightclub with friends, afterwhich the group returns to AL's apartment. Casey had to leave because, according to AL, "her mother wasn't allowing her to stay over".

Three weeks after they first "spent time together", the tart mom finally spends the night of June 13th at AL's apartment. That was a Friday and CA would've been off the next day. Maybe Caylee did spend that night with her gp's. I don't know. The next day, KC told AL's roommate Cameron that Caylee was with a friend at Cocoa Beach. She later told him that she and her mother were "always getting at each other's throats".

These statements can be found in the individual interviews and in the Supplemental Report released November 26th, otherwise known as the 2nd doc dump. I don't have direct links because I downloaded them to my computer. You can find the links in this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71772

While we can't be certain she didn't have a babysitter for June 16th, we do know Caylee was cramping her lifestyle in the weeks prior.



Other indications that Caylee was hindering the tart mom's lifestyle:

• Text messages to AH in which KC complains that she can't go out because her mother won't babysit or hasn't made it home from work
• IM's between KC and the other Tony touting babysitting problems
• A statement to a close friend (the young man's name escapes me at the moment) that she sometimes regretted having a child
• JG's statement that his father became digruntled when KC abused her babysitting privileges
• CA's brother's statement that CA met with a counselor who advised her to take the tough love approach

There's more, but I've taken up too much space already. The point is, at 50 years-old with a full-time job, CA was not willing to just roll over and take on the responsibility of a toddler so her selfish and irresponsible daughter could live carefree.

 

[Lanie]

w.r.t. Tony's frame of mind regarding Casey's 'living' @ the apartment I snipped the following from another post for convenience sake...bolded re: "moving".

I inserted some dates in brackets [] as examples. These can also be shifted forward and still make sense (e.g. 6/15 vs. 6/10, etc.)

Ahhh, this was part of my theory, but it turns out Casey referred to Zani back in May in IMs to AR (fired cop). I wrote the date down, but it's at my office.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

Respectfully snipped>While we can't be certain she didn't have a babysitter for June 16th, we do know Caylee was cramping her lifestyle in the weeks prior.


Other indications that Caylee was hindering the totmom's lifestyle:

• Text messages to AH in which KC complains that she can't go out because her mother won't babysit or hasn't made it home from work
• IM's between KC and the other Tony touting babysitting problems
• A statement to a close friend (the young man's name escapes me at the moment) that she sometimes regretted having a child
• JG's statement that his father became digruntled when KC abused her babysitting privileges
• CA's brother's statement that CA met with a counselor who advised her to take the tough love approach

There's more, but I've taken up too much space already. The point is, at 50 years-old with a full-time job, CA was not willing to just roll over and take on the responsibility of a toddler so her selfish and irresponsible daughter could live carefree.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Thanks, I was trying to find a way to post this without writing a short novel. I would just like to add, had Casey signed Caylee over to Cindy, like you say, no way is Cindy going to work full-time, take full responsibility for Caylee, and continue to finance Casey's lifestyle. While Casey is certainly not the poster child for long range thinking, she makes statements to LE that signal to me she was fully aware without Caylee she was SOL. All the references she makes to Cindy and what she thinks Cindy's reactions would be, or have been.
Lanie

 

[cyberborg]

[snip]

There's more, but I've taken up too much space already. The point is, at 50 years-old with a full-time job, CA was not willing to just roll over and take on the responsibility of a toddler so her selfish and irresponsible daughter could live carefree.

Respectfully snipped.

Thanks!!! This is brilliant!!!!

That was my sense, although CA loved Caylee and was there for Caylee there was no way CA could or would care for Caylee full-time, even the out for KC to use CA as a babysitter was disappearing (especially when KC was caught partying not working). CA loved Caylee but needed/wanted KC to take responsibility for her child. CA wanted the grandmother role and even that became confused.

I read the texts where KC was being teased to come out and play and was supposedly waiting for the Nanny to get back to town, codeword for CA was not home yet.

The noose was tightening for KC both in terms of taking money from CA as well as using CA as a babysitter and yet KC's newer friends wanted her to come out to play more and more and KC wanted that too.

I personally feel that matters were reaching a head, especially since there were some concerns with the bond with AL as well. If true, the June 15 fight was a final straw and while KC fantasized over matters, maybe something snapped and she acted and -- living 10 minutes at a time -- just moved on.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think a couple of things here.....I'm divorced and my ex has a lot of KC qualities...I know what it is to co-parent in a relationship with an ill individual...when I ask my ex to pay his half of the medical bills, which he never does, I'm "controlling him". He can't contemplate that many parents would williingly do this as they want their children to have good medical care, nor can he contemplate that he made an agreement with me to pay half and since I am paying my half, it is reasonable of me to expect him to honor that agreement. When my son is grown, I won't have the contact with my ex that I have now, because my son is the one common thread left between us...I think you have to think of KC and CA in that way, that they were essentially co-parenting this child, and KC felt that Cindy was trying to "control" her by asking her to live up to her part of that responsibility....and yes, she could have just walked away and left Caylee with Cindy, but we've heard about this resentment from Casey about the birth of Caylee and the relationship with Caylee and Cindy, and I think she felt like her mother was competing for Caylee, and she just couldn't walk away and let Cindy "win". Take these emotional undercurrents, and add the fact that this is a young person with low self esteem (however she may outwardly appear otherwise), no income or skills by which to support herself, and not a lot of life skills or problem solving skills as we have seen, and an utter lack of remorse or concern for others....

 

[kiki the parrot]

There are no references to KC not having a place for Caylee to stay on the nights of June 15 or 16. According to AL's statement to police, there were several instances in late May and early June when KC either couldn't go out or had to return home because of Caylee.

One day during the last week of May (exact date undetermined), AL wanted KC to "hang out" with him and another couple (his friend Clint and Clint's gf). KC couldn't leave home because of Caylee. She told him that she was at "the nanny's" and "Caylee had awakened and wouldn't go back to sleep.

May 31st, AL played music at a pool party. KC attended. The two later took in a movie. AL wanted her to stay over, but she left in the "early morning hours" after a phone call from CA.

June 1st, the two attend a party at the Pegasus Apartments. KC doesn't spend the night.

Another night that week (established by investigators to be June 4th), AL and KC attend a party at Voyage Nightclub with friends, afterwhich the group returns to AL's apartment. Casey had to leave because, according to AL, "her mother wasn't allowing her to stay over".

Three weeks after they first "spent time together", the tart mom finally spends the night of June 13th at AL's apartment. That was a Friday and CA would've been off the next day. Maybe Caylee did spend that night with her gp's. I don't know. The next day, KC told AL's roommate Cameron that Caylee was with a friend at Cocoa Beach. She later told him that she and her mother were "always getting at each other's throats".

These statements can be found in the individual interviews and in the Supplemental Report released November 26th, otherwise known as the 2nd doc dump. I don't have direct links because I downloaded them to my computer. You can find the links in this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71772

While we can't be certain she didn't have a babysitter for June 16th, we do know Caylee was cramping her lifestyle in the weeks prior.

It sounds like CA was the one "cramping KC's style," that is not going along w KC's program (oy...) Yes there had been much friction and conflict between KC and her stressed out mother because while living off her parents there at HOME, KC was not only stealing from both them AND her grandparents but refusing to work, freeloading, not following CA's rules, and feeling she could come and go as she pleased. JMO

Other indications that Caylee was hindering the tart mom's lifestyle:

• Text messages to AH in which KC complains that she can't go out because her mother won't babysit or hasn't made it home from work
• IM's between KC and the other Tony touting babysitting problems
• A statement to a close friend (the young man's name escapes me at the moment) that she sometimes regretted having a child
• JG's statement that his father became digruntled when KC abused her babysitting privileges
• CA's brother's statement that CA met with a counselor who advised her to take the tough love approach

There's more, but I've taken up too much space already. The point is, at 50 years-old with a full-time job, CA was not willing to just roll over and take on the responsibility of a toddler so her selfish and irresponsible daughter could live carefree.

(bold, und mine) Actually, her parents had agreed to do precisely that--to "roll over" and "continue taking on the responsibility of (their own) toddler (grandchild) so their selfish, irresponsible daughter could live carefree." I will be 49 myself in April, and as a single mother with a chronic illness, should my 20 year-old single daughter be unable or unwilling to care for my two year-old granddaughter, I can only say that would not be viewed by me, nor everyone else as the albatross you seem to view this as. CA had already been caring for Caylee, she adored her, and had offered to assume full responsibility for Caylee. And evidently she wasn't going to punish her granddaughter for the "sins" of the daughter. She was willing to "roll over" if it could prevent her grandchild from suffering for her child's poor choices. CA wanted her daughter to grow up and to make the right decision, but no matter how we magnify these incidents resulting from the friction of them living under the same roof together the fact remains, KC was offered that option of leaving Caylee in CA and GA's care. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Respectfully snipped.

Thanks!!! This is brilliant!!!!

That was my sense, although CA loved Caylee and was there for Caylee there was no way CA could or would care for Caylee full-time, even the out for KC to use CA as a babysitter was disappearing (especially when KC was caught partying not working). CA loved Caylee but needed/wanted KC to take responsibility for her child. CA wanted the grandmother role and even that became confused.

I read the texts where KC was being teased to come out and play and was supposedly waiting for the Nanny to get back to town, codeword for CA was not home yet.

The noose was tightening for KC both in terms of taking money from CA as well as using CA as a babysitter and yet KC's newer friends wanted her to come out to play more and more and KC wanted that too.

I personally feel that matters were reaching a head, especially since there were some concerns with the bond with AL as well. If true, the June 15 fight was a final straw and while KC fantasized over matters, maybe something snapped and she acted and -- living 10 minutes at a time -- just moved on.

Given CA was offering to assume guardianship of her granddaughter, I am not persuaded by speculation or vague references to this as a motive. Therefore, I am reluctant to use the word brilliant but on the other hand am quite fond of looking at the "big picture," a big fan of evidence, and maybe not so easily impressed lol JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Let's be careful here with the evidence.



I have not seen this in any interview with Tony. In fact, he never refers to her as having moved in, only as spending the night frequently.



Tony suggests that his apartment is not the best place to bring a two-year old on a regular basis (due to the partying), but never tells KC not to bring her. Tony seems to be the person acting like an adult here.



Perhaps true, but Tony does not think of KC as even living in the apartment before July. He does not allow her to stay there while he is in NY.

ITA, thank you once again JWG for clearing things up!
:clap:

 

[BuzzieCat]

...[CA]was willing to "roll over" if it could prevent her grandchild from suffering for her child's poor choices. CA wanted her daughter to grow up and to make the right decision, but no matter how we magnify these incidents resulting from the friction of them living under the same roof together the fact remains, KC was offered that option of leaving Caylee in CA and GA's care. JMO

I agree about that. However, I don't think Casey would ever have stood for it. IMO she would never want CA to have the satisfaction of officially taking over as Caylee's "mother." So she couldn't just be free and play with Tony L or whoever while CA replaced her in Caylee's life. I have no proof to back this up but I just have this strong feeling that Casey used Caylee as a method of controlling and punishing her parents, particularly CA, and she would lose that bargaining chip if she just gave up custody.

If, OTOH, "Zani" kidnapped Caylee, she could be free again and punish her parents while also getting attention for being a mother with a missing child who conveniently would never be seen again.

 

[Steely Dan]

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15. I don't agree that Caylee need have been longterm handicap or hindrance to KC's lifestyle or that this was a motive, since CA was offering to continue caregiving. As for that particular night, we know the following: KC and CA had fought the night prior (Father's Day), making it less likely KC, if CA knows she is still staying there, is gonna ask CA to babysit; but we also know that GA does see both girls (it's CA whom KC's avoiding) and that when he leaves for work and says goodbye to them that day, KC tells him she has to "work a late event" so not, I think, to expect either of them--as they'll "just stay at the nanny's." (Please, if you can point me to any actual document or transcript re "having nowhere for Caylee," bolded above, in which someone specifically quotes or recalls KC referring to this dilemma, I have not seen!) Maybe KC just lies to GA to avoid an argument, but planning to bring Caylee back after they're both asleep. But the whole question and in my mind, quite possibly the whole case, hinges upon this: Had AL ever agreed (via text mssgs or in long phonecall the previous nite eg) to allow KC to bring Caylee along on this occasion? What I wouldn't give to read text mssgs. between them from 7/15 and 16 (not yet released, that I can find nor can I find a transcript referring to content of their 80 min. phonecall). It's never made sense to me though that KC would have just simply "offed" her daughter to be "free," when all she had to do was leave Caylee, pack her bags--and play house w AL. JMO

I think that's what caused the fight between CA and KC on 06/15/08 (?). I believe CA had had enough of KC's trying to avoid the basic responsibilities of parenting.

I believe she put her foot down and told KC that she wasn't going to watch Caylee as much anymore and that KC had to step up as a parent and start being a mother instead of a partier.

This might have been started by KC asking her mother and father to take Caylee so she could move in with AL.

I think a couple of things here.....I'm divorced and my ex has a lot of KC qualities...I know what it is to co-parent in a relationship with an ill individual...when I ask my ex to pay his half of the medical bills, which he never does, I'm "controlling him". He can't contemplate that many parents would williingly do this as they want their children to have good medical care, nor can he contemplate that he made an agreement with me to pay half and since I am paying my half, it is reasonable of me to expect him to honor that agreement. When my son is grown, I won't have the contact with my ex that I have now, because my son is the one common thread left between us...I think you have to think of KC and CA in that way, that they were essentially co-parenting this child, and KC felt that Cindy was trying to "control" her by asking her to live up to her part of that responsibility....and yes, she could have just walked away and left Caylee with Cindy, but we've heard about this resentment from Casey about the birth of Caylee and the relationship with Caylee and Cindy, and I think she felt like her mother was competing for Caylee, and she just couldn't walk away and let Cindy "win". Take these emotional undercurrents, and add the fact that this is a young person with low self esteem (however she may outwardly appear otherwise), no income or skills by which to support herself, and not a lot of life skills or problem solving skills as we have seen, and an utter lack of remorse or concern for others....

Wow, great post. :clap:

The only thing I disagree with is that she could have walked away and left Caylee with CA. I think CA had had enough.

Because of this fight on June 15th CA blames herself for a big part in the death of Caylee. She probably keeps going over and over in her mind about what would have happened if she had just agreed to take Caylee instead.

This might even explain the willingness to cover up for KC.

 

[Steely Dan]

I agree about that. However, I don't think Casey would ever have stood for it. IMO she would never want CA to have the satisfaction of officially taking over as Caylee's "mother." So she couldn't just be free and play with Tony L or whoever while CA replaced her in Caylee's life. I have no proof to back this up but I just have this strong feeling that Casey used Caylee as a method of controlling and punishing her parents, particularly CA, and she would lose that bargaining chip if she just gave up custody.

If, OTOH, "Zani" kidnapped Caylee, she could be free again and punish her parents while also getting attention for being a mother with a missing child who conveniently would never be seen again.

A well thought out response but I think if she wanted sympathy for being a mother with a kidnapped child she would have come forward a long time before the 31st day. JMO

 

[bessie]

It sounds like CA was the one "cramping KC's style," that is not going along w KC's program (oy...) Yes there had been much friction and conflict between KC and her stressed out mother because while living off her parents there at HOME, KC was not only stealing from both them AND her grandparents but refusing to work, freeloading, not following CA's rules, and feeling she could come and go as she pleased. JMO

(bold, und mine) Actually, her parents had agreed to do precisely that--to "roll over" and "continue taking on the responsibility of (their own) toddler (grandchild) so their selfish, irresponsible daughter could live carefree." I will be 49 myself in April, myself a single mother w a chronic illness, and should my 20 year-old single daughter be unable or unwilling to care for my two year-old granddaughter, I can only say that would not be viewed by me, nor everyone else as the albatross you seem to view this as.

:tsktsk::tsktsk: If you knew me or knew some of my experiences, you'd know that is absurd. But you don't. So I'll let that one go.

CA had already been caring for Caylee, she adored her, and had offered to assume full responsibility for Caylee. And evidently she wasn't going to punish her granddaughter for the "sins" of the daughter. She was willing to "roll over" if it could prevent her grandchild from suffering for her child's poor choices.

Then why didn't she "roll over" to AL's about 31 days sooner?

CA wanted her daughter to grow up and to make the right decision, but no matter how we magnify these incidents resulting from the friction of them living under the same roof together the fact remains, KC was offered that option of leaving Caylee in CA and GA's care. JMO

Kiki, do you honestly believe CA would've taken custody of Caylee and allowed KC to ride off into the sunset scot free and all would've been hunky-dory? Would you?

I agree with what Irish Eyes said. There were complex underlying emotional issues at play. KC's "mistake" -- not the child herself -- was a point of contention between mother and daughter. For KC, turning over custody would've been giving in to CA. And I think she knew that whatever freedom she derived would've come with a hefty price tag, not to mention loss of financial support. JMO, of course.