Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Pedrosmom]

Very plausible.

It sounds like KC had snuck back home after GA went to work and was doing 'stuff' and Caylee was into things. Either due to KC's inattention, she was focused on her stuff, or because her patience was zero with Caylee given recent events -- this was when Caylee either suffered an accident or her demise.

As we all know KC was focused not only on her date that evening with AL but also determined to get out of dodge and move in with AL. AL was not keen on Caylee being there in a bachelor pad and so, Caylee was a handicap both to that nights date but also the need to move out.

KC was angry because given recent events no one was going to cut her a break and allow her to go out [ETA: KC had told everyone she was working late but had nowhere for Caylee] -- so her anger either caused her to ignore Caylee even though she was in jeopardy or she snapped and wanted to shut Caylee up.

What is shocking to me is, if Caylee did lose her life late on June 16 then either way it did not faze KC at all since she went on her date as planned and, as we saw -- was in Blockbuster at 8pm smooching with AL and renting videos.

[ETA: Unless KC had thought she had sedated Caylee and left her in the trunk, that's why she was not fazed but then discovered she was gone? Which is worse?]

KC never looked back, she spent some time to cover-up but she went onto to party hard and enjoy life and come out with endless tales as to where Caylee was and why.

So yes, if JG asked her about Caylee, highly likely, KC could have faked shouting at Caylee just to keep the story alive.

I do believe sedated and duct taped in the trunk for fear she wakes up. Remember Caylee had been in the car that day, verified by JG, Dad, others. If Casey was moving in with Tony, then Caylee wasn't allowed. Mom was at work and Dad leaving for work or something, so no one to watch her, despite her calling them several times. This is very hard to type but I fear she died a slow suffocation in the trunk of the care while KC was moving in with Tony.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Oops. Double post.

 

[kiki the parrot]

:tsktsk::tsktsk: If you knew me or knew some of my experiences, you'd know that is absurd. But you don't. So I'll let that one go.

I didn't think this was being presumptuous, I can only go by or respond to what's written here and it sounded to me as though you felt (and still feel) that no one in CA's shoes would have wanted, or agreed, to take on this burden. Many of my own life experiences w my older daughter as a teen parallel or are eerily similar to battles CA went thru w KC (probably why I over-identify!!) The difference being after it persisted long enough, having three other children, I wisely did ask my (once then rebellious, defiant, self-centered, irresponsible) daughter to move out--before she became pregnant, at age 18--and required her to be accountable, after which she was eventually forced to step up. Now she is thankfully a good mommy, but had I simply continued to ignore the deceit, to tolerate the disrespect and blameshifting and never allowed her to experience consequences over the years, there but for the grace of God... JMO

Then why didn't she "roll over" to AL's about 31 days sooner?

Have discussed ad infinitum both here (post #763 eg), as well as other threads. In fairness to CA remember she'd been badgering and berading KC for going out, not watching Caylee, or taking more responsbility for her daughter or being more of a hands-on mother. So after the argument it is likely (though unfortunate) that CA was simply hoping KC actually was for once stepping up (been there...) and acting like a mother or at the very least trying to prove she had everything handled); or at the worst was just being manipulative, or prideful, following their argument and CA's threats to kick KC out.

Having done the unthinkable, and proving herself the unfit mother her mother always accused her of being KC then conceals the horrible truth and avoids facing CA or taking responsibility by going into "hiding." While being denied a chance to speak with Caylee as KC goes on spinning her web of lies, making excuses and assuring her repeatedly that Caylee is fine, maybe CA's secretly relieved or even praying and hoping that maybe just maybe her daughter might finally be growing up (been there...), maybe even earning some income of her own for a change and acting as a responsible parent. In any case I do believe all of these were factors that played a role in buying KC more time. JMO

Kiki, do you honestly believe CA would've taken custody of Caylee and allowed KC to ride off into the sunset scot free and all would've been hunky-dory? Would you?

(bold mine) Yes I HONESTLY DO, guess we're both right back to where we started lol B/c as I wrote before if my own daughter had not ultimately stepped up and been a responsible parent to her baby, regardless of her choices (or even my health) I couldn't have lived w any other solution so would've had no choice but to put my grandchild's wellbeing first. (Btw, I discovered at one point when things were rough for my daughter she'd come very close to considering giving up custody of my granddaughter! By the time I learned of this and confronted her she'd since rethought her decision and opted instead to move back East near her father's (put that into perspective pretty quick...) Had she not had this change of heart I ASSURE YOU I WOULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS HAVE LET THIS HAPPEN (their moving has been heartbreaking enough). I can only assume this is how CA felt no matter the cost to her. JMO

 

[ibyoungr]

I didn't think this was being presumptuous, I can only go by or respond to what's written here and it sounded to me as though you felt (and still feel) that no one in CA's shoes would have wanted, or agreed, to take on this burden. Many of my own life experiences w my older daughter as a teen parallel or are eerily similar to battles CA went thru w KC (probably why I over-identify!!) The difference being after it persisted long enough, having three other children, I wisely did ask my (once then rebellious, defiant, self-centered, irresponsible) daughter to move out--before she became pregnant, at age 18--and required her to be accountable, after which she was eventually forced to step up. Now she is thankfully a good mommy, but had I simply continued to ignore the deceit, to tolerate the disrespect and blameshifting and never allowed her to experience consequences over the years, there but for the grace of God... JMO




Have discussed ad infinitum both here (post #763 eg), as well as other threads. In fairness to CA remember she'd been badgering and berading KC for going out, not watching Caylee, or taking more responsbility for her daughter or being more of a hands-on mother. So after the argument it is likely (though unfortunate) that CA was simply hoping KC actually was for once stepping up (been there...) and acting like a mother or at the very least trying to prove she had everything handled); or at the worst was just being manipulative, or prideful, following their argument and CA's threats to kick KC out.

Having done the unthinkable, and proving herself the unfit mother her mother always accused her of being KC then conceals the horrible truth and avoids facing CA or taking responsibility by going into "hiding." While being denied a chance to speak with Caylee as KC goes on spinning her web of lies, making excuses and assuring her repeatedly that Caylee is fine, maybe CA's secretly relieved or even praying and hoping that maybe just maybe her daughter might finally be growing up (been there...), maybe even earning some income of her own for a change and acting as a responsible parent. In any case I do believe all of these were factors that played a role in buying KC more time. JMO



(bold mine) Yes I HONESTLY DO, guess we're both right back to where we started lol B/c as I wrote before if my own daughter had not ultimately stepped up and been a responsible parent to her baby, regardless of her choices (or even my health) I couldn't have lived w any other solution so would've had no choice but to put my grandchild's wellbeing first. (Btw, I discovered at one point when things were rough for my daughter she'd come very close to considering giving up custody of my granddaughter! By the time I learned of this and confronted her she'd since rethought her decision and opted instead to move back East near her father's (put that into perspective pretty quick...) Had she not had this change of heart I ASSURE YOU I WOULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS HAVE LET THIS HAPPEN (their moving has been heartbreaking enough). I can only assume this is how CA felt no matter the cost to her.) JMO

Just some information to help out here. Please read the CA interview below on 8/4/08. NOTE: This is after the fight, this is after the disappearance of Caylee. Cindy DID NOT KNOW CAYLEE was missing. She OFFERED and was FRUSTRATED at not getting to watch Caylee the week she was off the first of July. She would have taken and cared for that baby in a heart beat.

(Cynthia Anthony INTERVIEW 08/04/2008 pg13, line 22): (DETECTIVE EDWARDS) Q. 29th and the 30th she continues to spend that time frame with Jeff. (CYNTHIA ANTHONY) A. yeah and then.. Q. Any conversations.. A. from the 30th through well then we'd wanna look at July. Q. Right. A. the 30th she said Jennifer [Jennifer Rosa], Zannie's roommate was watching Caylee cause Zannie couldn't. And Jennifer had Caylee at the park while Caysee was working. And that was part of my frustration cause I was off that week and I told her.. Q. You could have watched her.. A. I could have watched Caylee. Q. Right. What park did she say she had her at? A. Um Universal. She said they were doing character breakfasts and she was taking her around the park. And that was pretty much the whole week. Q. So she was hanging out with Jennifer that whole week? A. Yelp that's what she said. Q. Cause your're on vacation that week. Yelp I'm on vacation that week and I could a watched Caylee the whole week. And I don't remember specifics on Tuesday or Wednesday, I just know it's the same story every day. She, she was working.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Since hearing about the duct tape I have wondered if Casey did indeed duct tape her mouth and then pinched her nose closed so that she'd suffocate quietly.

I have never been so wrapped up in a case as this one.

I've also prayed to God that we don't hear that Caylee had any type of ligatures inside that bag with her.When I heard she was within a couple of garbage bags I thought of Jessica Lunsford.

Sorry for being so morbid.

 

[ibyoungr]

Since hearing about the duct tape I have wondered if Casey did indeed duct tape her mouth and then pinched her nose closed so that she'd suffocate quietly.

I have never been so wrapped up in a case as this one.

I've also prayed to God that we don't hear that Caylee had any type of ligatures inside that bag with her.When I heard she was within a couple of garbage bags I thought of Jessica Lunsford.

Sorry for being so morbid.

Good thought... maybe Caylee slept hard enough that mommy could put tape on her mouth without waking her from her nap and then just pinched her nose shut! No weapon...almost the perfect crime. Chemicals potentially are messy and risky. There are so many way that are plausible... sadly we may never know. This would very much be pre-meditated. As I stated earlier.. suffocation could either be pre-meditated or not.

 

[Salome]

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15. I don't agree that Caylee need have been longterm handicap or hindrance to KC's lifestyle or that this was a motive, since CA was offering to continue caregiving. As for that particular night, we know the following: KC and CA had fought the night prior (Father's Day), making it less likely KC, if CA knows she is still staying there, is gonna ask CA to babysit; but we also know that GA does see both girls (it's CA whom KC's avoiding) and that when he leaves for work and says goodbye to them that day, KC tells him she has to "work a late event" so not, I think, to expect either of them--as they'll "just stay at the nanny's." (Please, if you can point me to any actual document or transcript re "having nowhere for Caylee," bolded above, in which someone specifically quotes or recalls KC referring to this dilemma, I have not seen!) Maybe KC just lies to GA to avoid an argument, but planning to bring Caylee back after they're both asleep. But the whole question and in my mind, quite possibly the whole case, hinges upon this: Had AL ever agreed (via text mssgs or in long phonecall the previous nite eg) to allow KC to bring Caylee along on this occasion? What I wouldn't give to read text mssgs. between them from 7/15 and 16 (not yet released, that I can find nor can I find a transcript referring to content of their 80 min. phonecall). It's never made sense to me though that KC would have just simply "offed" her daughter to be "free," when all she had to do was leave Caylee, pack her bags--and play house w AL. JMO

I very much agree with you. The whole "she wanted to be free" theory never stuck with me. She could be free pretty easily through CA (and CA threatening to take Caylee--if this happened--just showed even more how possible that would be). There has to be something more immediate, IMO -- either accident/negligence or an immediate flare-up of anger at Caylee--that led to the death, it seems to me.

I have never seen evidence stating that AL would not let Caylee come over with Caylee on any particular night. We have several reports of her being there, after all. He and his friends agreed it wasn't the kind of place for a little kid to be staying at night and staying all the time, but they never said they had a no-Caylee policy or that they even discouraged Casey from bringing her there. I'm sure that if Casey said she'd just had a huge fight with her mom (coupled with all the other lies she'd given...the divorce pending, the cheating dad, etc.) and that she and Caylee had nowhere else to go, he would have gladly let both stay there that night and for a few nights if absolutely needed.

IF (and I don't think this is true), Casey killed Caylee partially b/c she didn't think she could show up with her at AL's and didn't want to stay at home any more (due to fight or due to her lies a/b trip or whatever), then this was entirely in her messed up mind. It doesn't appear that AL ever told her no or would have told her no that night. Yes, those text messages or phone calls during that crucial overnight period between KC and AL are so important to figuring much of this out!

 

[Salome]

If it was premeditated, Casey could have cooked up a kidnap with ransom plot in order to get a bunch of money from her parents. Everything points to premeditation and not accident. Even looking up shovel indicates a need to know which type of shovel would best dig.

I just don't think those quick searches (the ones we have released, at least) show premeditation. If she wanted money, she would have come forward with the kidnapping plot earlier, I think, and also provided more convincing character than the nanny (who would be pretty easy to track). Usually people who fake kidnappings blame it on strangers for this very reason (it's hard to trace strangers and no one wonders why you say they lived in an apartment that is empty). That right htere shows she didn't do a good job of pre-planning the kidnapping story. She had plenty of time to concoct a better Zanny story (more convincing address, for example), but we see in her first interview with LE that it is really just a garbled story that doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's my belief that she wasn't premeditating murder when doing those searches. I don't think reading all of those different sites in 12 minutes (or thereabouts) several months before the death would give her the necessary information about all of those things. Why look up a type of shovel? What would a 22-year-old know about types of shovels and assume that there are some that are better for grave-digging? And, if she was seeking that kind of knowledge, she did nothing with the info given. She didn't buy a new shovel (that LE knows of), and she ended up borrowing a neighbor's shovel (for what purpose, who knows) b/c she couldn't get into her parent's shed (or so it seems). Of course, there could be other searches that aren't released or that were on her mom's laptop, so I could be missing something.

 

[Steely Dan]

Good thought... maybe Caylee slept hard enough that mommy could put tape on her mouth without waking her from her nap and then just pinched her nose shut! No weapon...almost the perfect crime. Chemicals potentially are messy and risky. There are so many way that are plausible... sadly we may never know. This would very much be pre-meditated. As I stated earlier.. suffocation could either be pre-meditated or not.

I hope so. It makes me ill to think she was looking at her mothers eyes as she killed her.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I think that's what caused the fight between CA and KC on 06/15/08 (?). I believe CA had had enough of KC's trying to avoid the basic responsibilities of parenting.

I believe she put her foot down and told KC that she wasn't going to watch Caylee as much anymore and that KC had to step up as a parent and start being a mother instead of a partier.

This might have been started by KC asking her mother and father to take Caylee so she could move in with AL.

CA assuming greater responsibility for Caylee was not the cause of the argument on Father's Day--it was the result. Yes, CA had been angry, not just about KC's priorities and partying lifestyle but her chronic lying, and stealing--only now it wasn't just from them--KC had stooped so low as to actually steal from her elderly grandparents. CA learning that Father's Day of money stolen by KC from grandpa's retirement fund again after CA visited him at the assisted living home for the second Sunday in a row (w Caylee) was the cause, and the proverbial straw. Keeping Caylee wasn't the problem--it was in fact CA's SOLUTION. On the advice of her counselor, CA had decided enough was enough (yathink) and decided to kick KC out--but would never have been so cold or heartless as to kick out her grandchild so gladly agreed to keep Caylee. JMO

The only thing I disagree with is that she could have walked away and left Caylee with CA. I think CA had had enough.

Because of this fight on June 15th CA blames herself for a big part in the death of Caylee. She probably keeps going over and over in her mind about what would have happened if she had just agreed to take Caylee instead.

This might even explain the willingness to cover up for KC.

The only thing CA had had enough of was KC. CA was more than happy to keep Caylee, Caylee wasn't the problem. And as grieving grandparents or just concerned homeowners, if CA or GA are going over and over anything, it should be why there were never any adequate barriers installed to their pool--no cover, no alarms, nor any pool fencing--per safety specifications. CA was, per interviews w JG, SP and by all accounts prepared and willing to seek full legal custody if necessary and anyone who believes otherwise need only read up on a few of those. It's in there... JMO


Documents released by the State Attorney’s Office Wednesday showed investigators had a particular interest in the relationship between Casey and her mother, Cindy.

According to an interview with Casey's grandmother, Cindy sought professional help in dealing with her then out-of-control daughter.

Allegedly, the counselor advised Cindy to kick Casey out of the house.

Cindy also allegedly told family members that she was considering filing for full custody of Caylee.

Meanwhile, documents showed Jesse Grund, Casey's ex-fiancé, told Sheriff’s investigators Casey and Cindy got into a huge altercation the night before Caylee was last seen alive.

"It got into a very heated argument, which turned physical and Cindy started choking Casey," Grund said. He said he was told this by Lee Anthony, Casey's brother.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/11/30/national_vigil_for_caylee_anthony.html

 

[kiki the parrot]

Just some information to help out here. Please read the CA interview below on 8/4/08. NOTE: This is after the fight, this is after the disappearance of Caylee. Cindy DID NOT KNOW CAYLEE was missing. She OFFERED and was FRUSTRATED at not getting to watch Caylee the week she was off the first of July. She would have taken and cared for that baby in a heart beat.

(Cynthia Anthony INTERVIEW 08/04/2008 pg13, line 22): (DETECTIVE EDWARDS) Q. 29th and the 30th she continues to spend that time frame with Jeff. (CYNTHIA ANTHONY) A. yeah and then.. Q. Any conversations.. A. from the 30th through well then we'd wanna look at July. Q. Right. A. the 30th she said Jennifer [Jennifer Rosa], Zannie's roommate was watching Caylee cause Zannie couldn't. And Jennifer had Caylee at the park while Caysee was working. And that was part of my frustration cause I was off that week and I told her.. Q. You could have watched her.. A. I could have watched Caylee. Q. Right. What park did she say she had her at? A. Um Universal. She said they were doing character breakfasts and she was taking her around the park. And that was pretty much the whole week. Q. So she was hanging out with Jennifer that whole week? A. Yelp that's what she said. Q. Cause your're on vacation that week. Yelp I'm on vacation that week and I could a watched Caylee the whole week. And I don't remember specifics on Tuesday or Wednesday, I just know it's the same story every day. She, she was working.

TY, ITA!! CA OFFERED, and was MORE THAN WILLING... "IN A HEARTBEAT." JMO2

 

[txsvicki]

I just don't think those quick searches (the ones we have released, at least) show premeditation. If she wanted money, she would have come forward with the kidnapping plot earlier, I think, and also provided more convincing character than the nanny (who would be pretty easy to track). Usually people who fake kidnappings blame it on strangers for this very reason (it's hard to trace strangers and no one wonders why you say they lived in an apartment that is empty). That right htere shows she didn't do a good job of pre-planning the kidnapping story. She had plenty of time to concoct a better Zanny story (more convincing address, for example), but we see in her first interview with LE that it is really just a garbled story that doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's my belief that she wasn't premeditating murder when doing those searches. I don't think reading all of those different sites in 12 minutes (or thereabouts) several months before the death would give her the necessary information about all of those things. Why look up a type of shovel? What would a 22-year-old know about types of shovels and assume that there are some that are better for grave-digging? And, if she was seeking that kind of knowledge, she did nothing with the info given. She didn't buy a new shovel (that LE knows of), and she ended up borrowing a neighbor's shovel (for what purpose, who knows) b/c she couldn't get into her parent's shed (or so it seems). Of course, there could be other searches that aren't released or that were on her mom's laptop, so I could be missing something.

Casey may have printed out the directions on making chloroform then quickly looked up each ingredient and inhalants. I looked up types of shovels really quick and a page with pics of different shovels came up. It will be interesting to see how it's all put together for the trial.

 

[Lanie]

I very much agree with you. The whole "she wanted to be free" theory never stuck with me. She could be free pretty easily through CA (and CA threatening to take Caylee--if this happened--just showed even more how possible that would be). There has to be something more immediate, IMO -- either accident/negligence or an immediate flare-up of anger at Caylee--that led to the death, it seems to me.

I have never seen evidence stating that AL would not let Caylee come over with Caylee on any particular night. We have several reports of her being there, after all. He and his friends agreed it wasn't the kind of place for a little kid to be staying at night and staying all the time, but they never said they had a no-Caylee policy or that they even discouraged Casey from bringing her there. I'm sure that if Casey said she'd just had a huge fight with her mom (coupled with all the other lies she'd given...the divorce pending, the cheating dad, etc.) and that she and Caylee had nowhere else to go, he would have gladly let both stay there that night and for a few nights if absolutely needed.

IF (and I don't think this is true), Casey killed Caylee partially b/c she didn't think she could show up with her at AL's and didn't want to stay at home any more (due to fight or due to her lies a/b trip or whatever), then this was entirely in her messed up mind. It doesn't appear that AL ever told her no or would have told her no that night. Yes, those text messages or phone calls during that crucial overnight period between KC and AL are so important to figuring much of this out!

Bolded by me.
I think being able to do what she wants when she wants is part of the reason.
I agree with what I bolded in your post, but I would like to take it a step further. TonE may have been more than willing to let Casey AND Caylee stay at his place, but I doubt he would have been willing to stay at home with them. So all Casey would have accomplished would be a new enviroment to be stuck in with Caylee.
Lanie

 

[impatientredhead]

TY, ITA!! CA OFFERED, and was MORE THAN WILLING... "IN A HEARTBEAT." JMO2

Cindy's gestures were not without strings attached, and I would venture that Casey felt those strings to be more like an anchor chain.

 

[Ocean Lover]

I didn't know where to put this idea so I decided to put it on this thread. If not appropriate then mods can move.
I have been thinking of what they took out of the house right after little Caylee's body was found. They took 3 vacuums and 1 shop vac along with other stuff. I wonder if KC put Caylee in one of those space bags after she had died and used one of the vacuums or shop vac to get the air out of it. I can't think of another reason for taking all of those from the house. I would have thought if it was related to the trunk they would have taken them out a long time ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[ibyoungr]

I didn't know where to put this idea so I decided to put it on this thread. If not appropriate then mods can move.
I have been thinking of what they took out of the house right after little Caylee's body was found. They took 3 vacuums and 1 shop vac along with other stuff. I wonder if KC put Caylee in one of those space bags after she had died and used one of the vacuums or shop vac to get the air out of it. I can't think of another reason for taking all of those from the house. I would have thought if it was related to the trunk they would have taken them out a long time ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think they were also looking for soil samples(soil that matches to the discovery scene in the house.. although.. it would be a little late I would think.

 

[cyberborg]

I think a couple of things here.....I'm divorced and my ex has a lot of KC qualities...I know what it is to co-parent in a relationship with an ill individual...when I ask my ex to pay his half of the medical bills, which he never does, I'm "controlling him". He can't contemplate that many parents would williingly do this as they want their children to have good medical care, nor can he contemplate that he made an agreement with me to pay half and since I am paying my half, it is reasonable of me to expect him to honor that agreement. When my son is grown, I won't have the contact with my ex that I have now, because my son is the one common thread left between us...I think you have to think of KC and CA in that way, that they were essentially co-parenting this child, and KC felt that Cindy was trying to "control" her by asking her to live up to her part of that responsibility....and yes, she could have just walked away and left Caylee with Cindy, but we've heard about this resentment from Casey about the birth of Caylee and the relationship with Caylee and Cindy, and I think she felt like her mother was competing for Caylee, and she just couldn't walk away and let Cindy "win". Take these emotional undercurrents, and add the fact that this is a young person with low self esteem (however she may outwardly appear otherwise), no income or skills by which to support herself, and not a lot of life skills or problem solving skills as we have seen, and an utter lack of remorse or concern for others....

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Well said!!!

 

[ShadowGal]

Cindy's gestures were not without strings attached, and I would venture that Casey felt those strings to be more like an anchor chain.

Perfectly put.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Cindy's gestures were not without strings attached, and I would venture that Casey felt those strings to be more like an anchor chain.

For sure I know what you mean. Probably something totally outrageous like "No more drugs around Caylee." Or real manipulative and controlling like "You must stop sending poor grandpa to a homeless shelter." Or the old conditional "You may no longer rob us quite so blind." Hate that.

:boohoo:

 

[Steely Dan]

CA assuming greater responsibility for Caylee was not the cause of the argument on Father's Day--it was the result. Yes, CA had been angry, not just about KC's priorities and partying lifestyle but her chronic lying, and stealing--only now it wasn't just from them--KC had stooped so low as to actually steal from her elderly grandparents. CA learning that Father's Day of money stolen by KC from grandpa's retirement fund again after CA visited him at the assisted living home for the second Sunday in a row (w Caylee) was the cause, and the proverbial straw. Keeping Caylee wasn't the problem--it was in fact CA's SOLUTION. On the advice of her counselor, CA had decided enough was enough (yathink) and decided to kick KC out--but would never have been so cold or heartless as to kick out her grandchild so gladly agreed to keep Caylee. JMO



The only thing CA had had enough of was KC. CA was more than happy to keep Caylee, Caylee wasn't the problem. And as grieving grandparents or just concerned homeowners, if CA or GA are going over and over anything, it should be why there were never any adequate barriers installed to their pool--no cover, no alarms, nor any pool fencing--per safety specifications. CA was, per interviews w JG, SP and by all accounts prepared and willing to seek full legal custody if necessary and anyone who believes otherwise need only read up on a few of those. It's in there... JMO




Documents released by the State Attorney’s Office Wednesday showed investigators had a particular interest in the relationship between Casey and her mother, Cindy.

According to an interview with Casey's grandmother, Cindy sought professional help in dealing with her then out-of-control daughter.

Allegedly, the counselor advised Cindy to kick Casey out of the house.

Cindy also allegedly told family members that she was considering filing for full custody of Caylee.

Meanwhile, documents showed Jesse Grund, Casey's ex-fiancé, told Sheriff’s investigators Casey and Cindy got into a huge altercation the night before Caylee was last seen alive.

"It got into a very heated argument, which turned physical and Cindy started choking Casey," Grund said. He said he was told this by Lee Anthony, Casey's brother.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/11/30/national_vigil_for_caylee_anthony.html

Gotcha! :thumb:

Cindy's gestures were not without strings attached, and I would venture that Casey felt those strings to be more like an anchor chain.

:clap::clap:

I didn't know where to put this idea so I decided to put it on this thread. If not appropriate then mods can move.
I have been thinking of what they took out of the house right after little Caylee's body was found. They took 3 vacuums and 1 shop vac along with other stuff. I wonder if KC put Caylee in one of those space bags after she had died and used one of the vacuums or shop vac to get the air out of it. I can't think of another reason for taking all of those from the house. I would have thought if it was related to the trunk they would have taken them out a long time ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Vacuums pick up fibers and anything else that falls off of clothing. Anything she may have brushed against or anything she tracked in etc. would be in the bags of those vacuums. Especially the shop vac. If she used it to clean the car it's another nail in her coffin.