Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

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Fry: I'd want to go one better on this; I'd want to not only LOOK at the pictures, but also COMPARE them to the model (please State have a 3D model available for Jan's demo to describe the PROBABLE manner of positioning) and TOUCH the pieces of tape (yeah, even if they ARE in evidence bags!). Should all of these items be entered into evidence during the trial and get to sit in the jury room during the deliberations, well I believe FIRMLY the State's case is made regarding homicide and reasonable doubt against it flies out the window. The hypothesis of "floating tape" or "random debris" would join the InVISInanny & the climbing dead critters of Anthony speak, Cheney Mason can walk out arm & arm with Jose & the defense gang but not ICA!

:twocents:Back to basics: :twocents:this is a murder case where a child has been murdered by a parent, it appears to be a culmination of a "silent, covert child abuse case", child abuse by building neglect where the victim progressed in HER anticipated growth & maturity development and the perp regressed in her ability to function in her adult, mature responsible role. There is NOTHING special about this case other than the amount of publicity generated by the absurd behaviors from the characters in the breach of reality play!:furious: There do not seem to be laws against stupidity and enabling adult children's behaviors into lawlessness or GA & CA would be facing some DIRECT responsibility for Caylee's demise but there are codes of morality that most of humanity live by and someday.....



I so appreciate your input, JoyPath...and you are correct...JMHO

You're second paragraph sums things up...the grandparents should be ashamed of themselves, I do hope once this trial is over, they too will face charges of their own...the surely deserve it! JMHO

Justice for Caylee
 
I see what you mean, but even if it was an "accident", there was chloroform and duct tape involved- a horrible crime anyway.

I do believe she murdered her, but I am wondering if the method can be proven as in duct tape over her nose to suffocate.

The medical examiner could not rule on the cause of death because there was no way of determining that with what was left of poor Caylee. She could only rule on the means which was homicide in her opinion.
 
I believe Casey decided to get rid of Caylee a long time prior to her death. She googled missing children to research stories and mimic reactions.
BBM
She couldn't have done the worst possible job at it too. She is so empty inside she couldn't even fake a concern for Caylee. I can just hear her whiny sniveling voice right now. "All they care about is getting Caylee back". It makes me want to smack her.

fryhisbutt said:
If you could would you look at the autopsy pictures?

My gut answer would be yes...
But I bet after the fact i would wish I hadn't seen them.

Something tells me that if I saw them it would answer nagging questions i have about how the tape was placed.

IMHO
Yes I would look at the autopsy photos, but just like you I would probably regret it.
I haven't been able to look at duct tape the same way since this case. I don't think anyone here can anymore. So I noticed after using it a few months ago that it could easily cover my "mouth and nasal apertures " almost with 1 piece, and most certainly with 3 pieces... and I'm an adult.

Someone posted a very good theory in the duct tape thread of the placement of the tape. It was rendered using the duct tape photos and measurements. Very informative yet horrific and saddening at the same time.
 
I believe Casey decided to get rid of Caylee a long time prior to her death. She googled missing children to research stories and mimic reactions.

I believe she overheard Iassen and others back from the war, talking about the effects of chloraform on POW's. This peaked her interest, as benadryl only goes so far. I believe she made it herself, after researching it in March.

I think there was a catalyst that made her put her well rehearsed plan into action. What is was, I don't know.

Also, I don't think the tape was meant to be removed because it was in the childs hair. You wouldn't tape her hair if you were ever planning on removing the tape. I believe it was the murder weapon. She later returned the tape so that her parents wouldn't notice it missing. I think she knocked her out so that she would not fight against the duct tape, and the murder would be less messy. Hopefully, Caylee didn't awaken with the tape over her mouth. God Bless Caylee. Casey deserves death. She completely premeditated planned and attempted to cover up her crime.

I have thought of many theories about what ultimately killed Caylee from accidental through willful neglect and murder, but I don't know why I missed that comment you wrote, of course no mother who had to get anything sticky out of her child's hair would ever wrap duct around the face, secure it in the hair and expect to get it out later.
Not to mention the obvious, that no normal mother would duct tape any part of their child's body for any reason in the first place.
 
my thoughts are that "ICA lost it" with Caylee and either hit her too hard or choked her but that she did Kill her on a whim, which could still be premeditated if her intent was too kill her at that moment, right? Then her first thought to cover it up was too make it look like a kidnapping. But like Scarlett O'hara, never got around to reporting Caylee missing or kidnapped since she was so busy with Tony. But I do think she had the Zenaida story planned at that time when she decided on the "someone kidnapped Cayle. This is why she just went with it when Lee pressed her.
 
I see what you mean, but even if it was an "accident", there was chloroform and duct tape involved- a horrible crime anyway.

I do believe she murdered her, but I am wondering if the method can be proven as in duct tape over her nose to suffocate.

For me, the duct tape negates any accident scenario. Dr. G ruled out that it was placed post-mortem. At one time, my mind was open that it could have been an accident and she panicked, but since studying the forensics, the evidence proves otherwise to me.

The medical examiner could not rule on the cause of death because there was no way of determining that with what was left of poor Caylee. She could only rule on the means which was homicide in her opinion.

Exactly. There was nothing left but skeletonized scattered bones, EXCEPT for Caylee's skull. We might not even have a finding of manner of death as homicide if Casey hadn't screwed up by placing that duct tape in such a way that it held the mandible in place. Otherwise we would know much less than we do now.

Dr. G could only issue a finding of homicide as manner of death but was unable to swear as to the cause of death, (since there were no vital organs left to examine offering PROOF). I feel sure she will be asked her opinion about whether the tape placement could be consistent with suffocation. I have seen Dr. G testify in other cases - She is going to make a GREAT witness - very credible. She is very good at communicating in layperson terms and will lay it out for the jury in simple, easy to interpret terms so that they may draw their own conclusion using their common sense. And, as Joypath pointed out, showing the placement of tape on a 3d model will be very important. That visualization will be extremely damning, IMO.

I am still holding out hope that the SA can tie some forensic evidence (fiber?) that we are unaware of back to the lone piece of duct tape (Q104) that was not attached to Caylee's skull. If they can show it was most likely used to bind her hands behind her back - that would be the smoking gun.
 
I believe Casey decided to get rid of Caylee a long time prior to her death. She googled missing children to research stories and mimic reactions.

I believe she overheard Iassen and others back from the war, talking about the effects of chloraform on POW's. This peaked her interest, as benadryl only goes so far. I believe she made it herself, after researching it in March.

I think there was a catalyst that made her put her well rehearsed plan into action. What is was, I don't know.

Also, I don't think the tape was meant to be removed because it was in the childs hair. You wouldn't tape her hair if you were ever planning on removing the tape. I believe it was the murder weapon. She later returned the tape so that her parents wouldn't notice it missing. I think she knocked her out so that she would not fight against the duct tape, and the murder would be less messy. Hopefully, Caylee didn't awaken with the tape over her mouth. God Bless Caylee. Casey deserves death. She completely premeditated planned and attempted to cover up her crime.

BBM

I may be mistaken, but I thought it was determined that the missing children website searches were done after Caylee was reported as missing, possibly by one of the A's.

Maybe someone will know for sure..... or maybe I need to go back to do some sleuthing.....
 
Snaz is correct.

The media botched the dates in the computer forensics. The details are in the computer forensics thread. HTH.
 
Beach:
For me, the duct tape negates any accident scenario. Dr. G ruled out that it was placed post-mortem. At one time, my mind was open that it could have been an accident and she panicked, but since studying the forensics, the evidence proves otherwise to me.

Ok, I hope it does for the jury too!
 
Fyi. I've temporarily unapproved some posts. If you are missing one it should reappear later w/o comments directed at another member. Discussing positions is fine & all positions are welcome...but no attacking, etc. Thanks.
 
I don't claim to know exactly what happened to Caylee, but a little stroll down memory lane in the form of the [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90076"]"The Piece of Henkel Duct Tape NOT Found with Remains" thread [/ame] (which magic-cat started almost exactly one year ago, :blowkiss: m-c!), plus the work that's been done on the duct tape and trunk stain threads, indicates that our defendant is in deep, deep trouble.

1. We have three long pieces of an unusual brand of industrial-grade duct tape, which so happens to be found in the garage of the house that our defendant and Caylee called home, placed over what would have been Caylee's nose and mouth, in a manner that would preclude un-taping her (tangled into her hair so much that when her tissues decomposed away, the tape held her mandible in place).

2. We have Q104, the piece of Henkel tape found away from Caylee's skull and the bags in which she was swaddled--and Q104 is chewed at one end as though there had been animal activity.

3. Q104 was found with remnants of the shirt Caylee was apparently wearing when she died. These remnants include lettering that was over the chest and abdomen area when Caylee wore the shirt. Q104 was found with some of these letters, apart from the skull. The collar of this shirt is found intact.

4. Q104 contains "fringe hairs," which according to the FBI, may come from the victim's back or abdomen among other spots (neck, for example, but not arms which are considered "limb hair"). The abdomen of a deceased human being contains organs attractive to animal foragers. Access to these organs is most expeditious to said foragers via the abdomen or the back.

5. The trunk liner of the car driven by KC is determined by several independent sources, both human and canine, to smell like a decomposing human person.

6. A stain on same trunk liner bears remarkable similarities to the pressure points which would be left by a toddler-size child laying on her side upon this trunk liner. Arguments can be made either way as to whether this stain indicates whether the child's hands would be in her lap, or behind her back.

So we have the fixins for an outraged jury. An outraged jury ready to determine guilt beyond reasonable doubt? Well, add in that bit about the Henkel duct tape connect to the Anthony garage, the fact that GA's LE background would have resulted in a much more discreet dumping ground, CA's clear love of and preference for Caylee, and the lies, shovel-borrowing, squirrel-blaming and general *unusualness* of KC, and VWAH... LAH.

(Oops, I forgot to add in the 3D recreation of Caylee's tiny skull with that duct tape wrapped around it. Oh, and the Bella Vita tattoo. And the Blockbuster tape snug-fest. And the "I just talked to Caylee today" thing on July 15. And the Zanny/nanny mess.)

Keep the faith peeps. Keep the faith.
 
BBM

I may be mistaken, but I thought it was determined that the missing children website searches were done after Caylee was reported as missing, possibly by one of the A's.

Maybe someone will know for sure..... or maybe I need to go back to do some sleuthing.....

Apparently it was long before Caylee went missing -

Digging through Casey's Internet history, Eyewitness News discovered evidence she was surfing missing children web sites months before Caylee disappeared. She visited one more than a year ago. Ironically, now Caylee's picture takes center stage on that same site.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17567178/detail.html
 
BBM

I may be mistaken, but I thought it was determined that the missing children website searches were done after Caylee was reported as missing, possibly by one of the A's.

Maybe someone will know for sure..... or maybe I need to go back to do some sleuthing.....

Snaz is correct.

The media botched the dates in the computer forensics. The details are in the computer forensics thread. HTH.

Apparently it was long before Caylee went missing -

Digging through Casey's Internet history, Eyewitness News discovered evidence she was surfing missing children web sites months before Caylee disappeared. She visited one more than a year ago. Ironically, now Caylee's picture takes center stage on that same site.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17567178/detail.html

This myth has been debunked here (post #24 by JWG)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78216"]Myth Busters and Facts *LIST ONLY* NO DISCUSSION NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
BBM
She couldn't have done the worst possible job at it too. She is so empty inside she couldn't even fake a concern for Caylee. I can just hear her whiny sniveling voice right now. "All they care about is getting Caylee back". It makes me want to smack her.

All I can say, Reagan, is get a ticket and go to the end of the line.....better pack a lunch though because it's a really, really, really long line. lol
 
Hi, guys, I am an avid lurker but non poster so hope my etiquette is up to scratch.
Is it possible the duct tape was applied immediately after death? I don't think Caylee's death was an accident, but I do believe it was a spur of the moment event. Considering Casey has gone with a kidnapping story, the duct tape is a quintessential kidnapping component, especially for a movie buff. She is an accomplished liar and probably came up with this scenario very quickly, so I guess my question is, would they be able to tell if the duct tape was applied just before death, or just after?
 
:Welcome-12-june: :newbie:

I agree with you, I think it is entirely possible that it was applied after she had passed too, and there was no way of telling once the remains were found.
 
Thanks for the welcome Mrs G norris, I was a bit reluctant to post , being a newbie, but you guys seem lovely. I don't want to attribute qualities to Casey that she clearly doesn't have, but I do find the premeditation hard to swallow. I believe she loved Caylee in as much as she was capable of love, but her hate and resentment towards Cindy was paramount in her life. She craved Cindy's approval and I think we all know that the mother, daughter relationship is fraught with complexity in a lot of cases. I really believe she killed Caylee in an out of control moment and then panicked out of fear of her mother's wrath, hence the kidnapping story. I do think it's feasible to assume that she applied that duct tape immediately after death, which makes it very hard to determine exactly what happened. There are some amazing minds on here, and I have found this site to be a fantastic resource on this case.
 
Hi, I agree.....my thinking is if the Chloroform evidence isn't convincing then I imagine a spur of the moment killing in an act of frustration by a Casey pushed over the edge by the drama going on in the home, her own jealousy of Caylee, and the pressure of her lifestyle being exposed by Cindy / George after Cindy was confronted by Shirley and told to take her daughter in hand. But if the Chloroform evidence is compelling then that puts a whole other slant on the case in my mind, and meant that Casey was plotting something diabolical and had been for months. I often wonder if Casey killed Caylee that day simply because she couldn't get a hold of Cindy to take her for the night so she could go to Tony's, and in her psychopathic little mind she thought...'well, this'll learn you' ... eagerly awaiting all the evidence in this one!
 
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