Theories

[DeeDee249]

So I wonder if that since the stuff used in the home of JB would be consider no good evidence since it belonged there and say how would it be veiwed if someone used a key and used the stuff.. JMO

With today's forensics methods- it could still be useful evidence. Just because something belonged to the home (crime scene) doesn't mean the people involved can be excluded.
BTW, many IDI feel the cord and tape, as well a long list of household items came from outside the home,

 

[Ames]

With today's forensics methods- it could still be useful evidence. Just because something belonged to the home (crime scene) doesn't mean the people involved can be excluded.
BTW, many IDI feel the cord and tape, as well a long list of household items came from outside the home,

Yep, that intruder would have had to have brought a U-haul truck with him, to carry all of that stuff. And there is no way, that he could have brought in the cord, tape, a baseball bat, a flashlight,etc...and climbed through that tiny little window. Where would he have put all of those things, while he was breaking in?

 

[Ravyn]

I know this isn't part of this but everytime one of you say what the intruder needed to bring all the stuff still blows me away..

 

[eleven]

Yep, that intruder would have had to have brought a U-haul truck with him, to carry all of that stuff. And there is no way, that he could have brought in the cord, tape, a baseball bat, a flashlight,etc...and climbed through that tiny little window. Where would he have put all of those things, while he was breaking in?

Backpack?
Tote Bag?
There's a myriad of possibilities.

 

[Ames]

Backpack?
Tote Bag?
There's a myriad of possibilities.

A back pack or tote bag full of everything that the IDI's claim that the intruder brought with him, would not have fit through that small window. Besides that, he would have had to have thrown it down first, before trying to climb through that window....so, where are the fibers from the tote bag or the backpack? And if he is going to bring in a backpack full of stuff, why not throw a RN in there too?? Why wait until he gets INSIDE the home, not having any clue WHERE the Rams were or WHEN they would return....and then pen a three page RN, complete with practice note? That absolutely makes no sense at all.

The fact that the "intruder" left NO fibers behind...is ridiculous. The only fibers found, belonged to the RAMS. Sure, you can say...well, it was their house, so of course their fibers would be there. Well, that doesn't explain the ABSENCE of intruder fibers. Unless he was wearing a bee keepers suit.

 

[Sophie]

And the funny ole thing in the Eric Haga case is that the prosecutor - despite the myriad problems including older forensics - still went after him twice.

An intruder to the Ramseys' home would have to have extraordinary knowledge of what would be available in the home or have an astonishingly cool head to make such good use of the stuff in the basement on an extemporaneous basis.

Maybe Ames, DeeDee or SuperDave will be able to confirm or deny this, but I thought Dr Henry Lee had intimated that both the tape and cord had been used before and therefore probably came from the home. Is this a JBR-case hallucination on my part?

Ty.

 

[DeeDee249]

It's been a while since I read Dr. Lee's book- but I have seen where it was said that the tape wasn't that sticky. As if it had been used on something else first and pulled off to be used on JBR, as opposed to being torn from a roll. Something about the edges being cut vs torn, maybe.
There was also mention somewhere about tan cotton fibers being found. That's where the Amercan Girl Doll connection came in. JB had such dolls. Those dolls have soft filled bodies made of a tan cotton. Only the head, neck and limbs are vinyl. There is a round cord that wraps around the neck and ties the doll's head onto the body. Sometimes this cord gets in the way when the doll is being dressed or when brushing the doll's hair. The Pleasant Company, who manufactured the dolls, recommended parents put a piece of duct tape over the knot in the cord to keep it down flat.
The garrote could not have come from this cord- the doll's cord is much shorter, and a different type of cord. (round, vs flat nylon of the garrote). But the tape could have ONLY if the Rs had indeed put such a piece on JB's doll. The dolls do not come with the tape.
It'd be interesting to have known if any of her other American Girl Dolls (she had more than one) had tape on their necks. If they did, we can make a pretty god guess where the tape came from.

 

[Ames]

And the funny ole thing in the Eric Haga case is that the prosecutor - despite the myriad problems including older forensics - still went after him twice.

An intruder to the Ramseys' home would have to have extraordinary knowledge of what would be available in the home or have an astonishingly cool head to make such good use of the stuff in the basement on an extemporaneous basis.

Maybe Ames, DeeDee or SuperDave will be able to confirm or deny this, but I thought Dr Henry Lee had intimated that both the tape and cord had been used before and therefore probably came from the home. Is this a JBR-case hallucination on my part?

Ty.

Maybe DeeDee or SD, can answer the question about the cord, because I don't know the answer. But, the tape wasn't even sticky...and there were tan fibers (along with Patsy's clothing fibers) found underneath. The tan fibers...being there, because it had been stuck to something else...tan...before being placed on JB's mouth. Fleet White even thought something was fishy about the tape...he picked it up, after John took it off of JB's mouth and had thrown it down. He picked it up and examined it. He knew that something just wasn't quite right...about that tape.

 

[Ames]

It's been a while since I read Dr. Lee's book- but I have seen where it was said that the tape wasn't that sticky. As if it had been used on something else first and pulled off to be used on JBR, as opposed to being torn from a roll. Something about the edges being cut vs torn, maybe.
There was also mention somewhere about tan cotton fibers being found. That's where the Amercan Girl Doll connection came in. JB had such dolls. Those dolls have soft filled bodies made of a tan cotton. Only the head, neck and limbs are vinyl. There is a round cord that wraps around the neck and ties the doll's head onto the body. Sometimes this cord gets in the way when the doll is being dressed or when brushing the doll's hair. The Pleasant Company, who manufactured the dolls, recommended parents put a piece of duct tape over the knot in the cord to keep it down flat.
The garrote could not have come from this cord- the doll's cord is much shorter, and a different type of cord. (round, vs flat nylon of the garrote). But the tape could have ONLY if the Rs had indeed put such a piece on JB's doll. The dolls do not come with the tape.
It'd be interesting to have known if any of her other American Girl Dolls (she had more than one) had tape on their necks. If they did, we can make a pretty god guess where the tape came from.

We posted at the same time...LOL

YES..that would be very interesting to have known if any of her other AG dolls had tape on them. That is a VERY good question...wonder if anybody even THOUGHT to look at them?

 

[DeeDee249]

We posted at the same time...LOL

YES..that would be very interesting to have known if any of her other AG dolls had tape on them. That is a VERY good question...wonder if anybody even THOUGHT to look at them?

I doubt it. I bet anything those dolls went out of the house with Aunt P on her LE- facilitated evidence raid.

 

[Sophie]

Thank you, Dee Dee and Ames. Sorry to use you as a reference library; I think that multi-agency task force should have employed you and Dave as fact checkers/information and research officers.

I was just on the point of buying that Dr Lee book when I realised that the only available copy on Amazon.co.uk costs nearly £75 Hopefully it'll be more reasonably-priced on Amazon.com

Interesting thought regarding doll. Must admit that I had always thought the absence in the house of a cord matching the 'garrote' was a massive red herring. I mean, everyone has random bits of string and cord etc from parcels and packages...

 

[Ravyn]

Now I wonder with this being a foreign fraction and putting the letter to JR why not go after BR why JB or more going after the first born son now if they really wanted to make a point can't say they couldn't get JAR..And really if this was a foreign fraction they would had ask for more cause the note stated they like the company well this could mean that other than asking for money there was something the company could go for them...

 

[DeeDee249]

Just keep in mind that the cord could not have come from the doll. The doll's neck cord is different type, shape, and much too short. The tape did not come with the doll- it had to be added by whoever owned the doll.
BUT- the identical cord and tape were sold at two stores right in Boulder.

 

[Ames]

I doubt it. I bet anything those dolls went out of the house with Aunt P on her LE- facilitated evidence raid.

I know that at least some of them did...I have read the PARTIAL list of things that Pam took out of the house, and they were on the list. GEE...I wonder why? I am just trying to remember how many of them JB had...and just how many Pam took out of the house...I DO remember that it was more than one that she took. So, she may have taken all of them that JB owned.

 

[Ravyn]

Now the tape could had came from the doll, cause it wasn't sticky, so IMO this might had been JB's favorite and might have kept it close to her.. And only the person(s) that put it there would had known,unless the intruder done alot of research on My American Doll.. Which I doubt. And the American Doll that was reorder so the first one must had gotton damage someway..

 

[Ravyn]

Need input what is S.B.T.C could mean Sorry Baby Take Care.. Or C.T.B.S might mean Child To Be Saved.. This is just been going though my mind.. Cause victory could mean that they did just that..

 

[Ames]

Need input what is S.B.T.C could mean Sorry Baby Take Care.. Or C.T.B.S might mean Child To Be Saved.. This is just been going though my mind.. Cause victory could mean that they did just that..

The Ramsey's used to call someone that worked with John Son of a B...., and they had the initial's T. C. I can't remember the name, I would have to Google it. It was something like Tom Carnes, or something...for example. And when the children were around they would refer to him as S.O.B.T.C., this is according to Nedra, Patsy's mom. So, SBTC, could have came from that. I am still going with Saved By The Cross...a popular saying among the saved, back then. Also John attended Subic Bay Training Center...also SBTC.