Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[mbroemsen]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to check the Kukodas again from Bucks and see if he shows up as their neighbors or we can match any names?

 

[SherlockJr]

HoT found that Robert Wolgast from Bucks (Kukoda-link) was b 1907 which would have made him just 60 when Anna was born... and no death records. Maybe he used his real name??

If this is Robert (Bobby) Wolgast, can someone find out if his father was Adolf (AD) Wolgast? Like they say.... like father, like son.

 

[kyresearcher]

If this is Robert (Bobby) Wolgast, can someone find out if his father was Adolf (AD) Wolgast? Like they say.... like father, like son.

I found this on Ad wolgast but haven't been able to find anything on Robert.http://www.boxing-records.com/palm/wolgasad.html

 

[mbroemsen]

Here is the bio I found on him earlier today.
http://www.ibhof.com/wolgast.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/4980/nelsonwolgast.htm

 

[SherlockJr]

I have to admit the only thing that does not match are the lips. Could it be he puckered up more as a teenager? :blowkiss: Makes sense to me! Gesh just look at the portrait 20-30 years later, who would want to play kisseyface with that?

 

[mbroemsen]

Ad Wolgast was in a movie..
http://mymovies.imdb.com/name/nm0938452/

 

[Shadow205]

Doogie, I found your "Great Entertainer" for you!


http://www.antekprizering.com/kellerterryff.jpeg

Is this supposed to be a picture of Bobby Wolgast? IMO, it doesn't look any thing like the Bobby Wolgast picture that we were working with last night. Here is the one that I think could be George.



Are there 2 Bobby Wolgasts? I am confused.

 

[Shadow205]

Bobby WolgastSex MaleNationality US AmericanHometown Philadelphia, PADivision Bantamweight

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=010077

I also found this at the same site

Bobby WolgastSex MaleNationality US AmericanHometown San Francisco, CADivision Welterweight



Bobby Wolgast IBantamweight US American Philadelphia, PA 1920 - 1926 12-14-9 Bobby Wolgast IWelterweight US American San Francisco, CA 1940 - 1940 0-1-0

 

[natasha-cupcake]

Dr. Doogie, is there anyway you can convince LE to do an age progession on the photo of Bobby Wolgast and compare that to our pics of George Brody?

This seems like a promising lead, in one respect because it gives a possible historical identity to GB. But on the other hand, what do we do with the information, if George Brody and Bobby Wolgast are determined to be one and the same?

 

[mysteriew]

I don't have the software to do it. But one good way in a camparison study is in the ears. The spacing, whorls and shape of ears is very individual. And they don't change with age. I know we don't have any really clear studies of Bobby's ears, but we do have some of his ear. Could you do an enlargement of an ear and one of Brody's and do an overlay on it? It looks as though we may have some good photos of Brody's ear's so maybe we can get one which is a close approximation of the same angle as Bobby's ears.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I think it's oddly appropriate that Floyd Patterson, one of boxing's oldies, died yesterday while we were all knee-deep in researching old boxers.

MB, my hats are off to you for your amazing work!

I researched for several hours last night trying to find more info on Robert Wolgast, just in case Bobby and Robert are one in the same, but I could find nothing. I'm back today to investigate more avenues on tracing Robert/Bobby.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Does anyone know the statistical type information re what qualifies someone as being a bantamweight... IOW, weight, height or anything along those lines? We know from Annasmom that Brody was in the neighborhood of being 5'4" or 5-5" (and possibly an inch or so taller when he was younger)... would bantamweight stats be in that range?

 

[Shadow205]

I was working on the theory that Ad Wolgast & Bobby Wolgast might have been related. I have found information that Ad Wolgast was from Cadilac,MI. So far from what I have found on Bobby Wolgast, it shows his home town as Philly. Here is some info on Ad

NEVADA STATE JOURNAL
Feb 23, 1910

WOLGAST FAMILY HAPPY OVERVICTORY

CADILLAC, Mich.., Feb. 22. Four thousand former neighbors of Ad
Wolgast packed three theaters tonight 'and shouted themselves hoarse
details of the fight were received from Richmond arena. When the result was announced the crowds formed a cheering parade that marched the length of ths town. Engine and factory whistles
were blown until the noise was deafening.

At a Cadillac poolroom where report' of the fight were read John
Wolgast, father of the champion, and two of his brothers, were carried
about on the shoulders of the enthusiasts.. Tears streamed down the
father's face. ','Ad won't lose the title until he hands it to me," said one
ot the brothers.

At the farm house two miles south of Cadillac. Wolgast's mother
sat holding a telephone receiver for two hours and repeating the results
of the rounds to Wolgast's sisters and baby brother. "I knew he would win," the mother said. "He is so good to us. I can't say any more. My heart will break with joy." The farm on which the family live was bought by the fighter with his first saving's.


NOTE – the brother was Johnny Wolgast he had a fight with
My dad Fred Snell 25 April 1925 who koed him in the 4th
Nice one dad.
http://boxing-forum.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=999

 

[Shadow205]

</B>The following guidelines shall be used for contests unless the department waives the weight difference allowance in writing. I don't see any reference to height just weight.

Weight Class Weight

Difference AllowanceGlove WeightStrawweightup to and including 105 poundsnot more than 3 lbs.8 oz.Light Flyweightover 105 to 108 poundsnot more than 3 lbs.8 oz.Flyweightover 108 to 112 poundsnot more than 3 lbs.8 oz.Super Flyweightover 112 to 115 poundsnot more than 3 lbs.8 oz.Bantamweightover 115 to 118 poundsnot more than 3 lbs.8 oz.Super Bantamweightover 118 to 122 poundsnot more than 5 lbs.8 oz.Featherweightover 122 to 126 poundsnot more than 5 lbs.8 oz.Super Featherweightover 126 to 130 poundsnot more than 7 lbs.8 oz.Lightweightover 130 to 135 poundsnot more than 7 lbs.8 oz.Super Lightweightover 135 to 140 poundsnot more than 9 lbs.8 oz.Welterweightover 140 to 147 poundsnot more than 9 lbs.8 oz.Super Welterweightover 147 to 154 poundsnot more than 11 lbs.8 oz.Middleweightover 154 to 160 poundsnot more than 11 lbs.10 oz.Super Middleweightover 160 to 168 poundsnot more than 12 lbs.10 oz.Light Heavyweightover 168 to 175 poundsnot more than 12 lbs.10 oz.Cruiserweightover 175 to 195 poundsnot more than 20 lbs.10 oz.Heavyweightover 195 poundsno limit10 oz.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I just want to take a minute to thank some of the great researchers here at WS for their collective effort at getting us where we are on the boxer, Bobby Wolgast. If I've left anyone out, please forgive me. It's early in the morning and I'll still drinking coffee and trying to wake up and be alert.

Natasha-Cupcake (post #333) for putting more emphasis on Brody's boxing days

Shadow205 for being brave enough to join a boxing website!

KYresearcher for finding the OOTP website on boxing,

mfangel for finding the phillyboxinghistory website

and SherlockJr for noticing the similarity between Brody and Bobby Wolgast!

I know there are lots of us who have worked on the boxing, but I think without the emphasis put on boxing by the previous posters, none of this would have happened. I sure hope we're on the right lead this time to finding Brody's real identity.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I just sent an email to the INTERNATIONAL BOXING RESEARCH ORGANIZATION with some questions re Bobby Wolgast, so maybe they'll answer and, more importantly, maybe they'll know something pertinent they can share with us.

 

[HeartofTexas]

The one thing that makes me wonder if Wolgast is really Bobby's real name is that the only reference I can find for him on the Census is a Robert Wolgast (IF that's him) living with another family as a lodger in 1930. So where was he before this? If he was born anywhere from 1900-1910, he should have shown up on the 1910 and 1920 Census also. There was a somewhat large family of Wolgasts living in a northern state (Michigan?), but none of them had a first name of Robert or Bobby, so it's hard to tell if he migrated from there to Pennsylvania.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I just found this bit of history re:

URBAN ARCHIVES


George D. McDowell Philadelphia Evening Bulletin Newsphotgraph CollectionBiographical Files, 1939-1983 It says:

Mixture of local newspaper, wire service, and other source photography for approximately 40,000 individual names on the world, national and local scene. Most files are stored off-site and require prior notification for access

It lists hundreds of people but here are 3 grouped together, and I noted that Bobby Wolgast was referred to as Robert Wogast, Boxer. I hope that this information is accurate because it definitely gives credence to Wolgast's first name being Robert.

WOLGAST, "MIDGET" - Boxer

WOLGAST, JOHNNY - Boxer

WOLGAST, ROBERT - Boxer

http://www.library.temple.edu/urbana/BIO-4.htm

 

[Shadow205]

Here is a link to a whole bunch of boxing links. I have not looked at a fraction of them

http://www.maxboxing.com/Interactive/max_links.asp

 

[HeartofTexas]

I found this little blurb on Bobby on the Philly Boxing site, so then emailed them requesting any additional (personal) information on him:

Approx. 90 Bouts - South Philly - Bantamweight - Active 1920-1927


​

COMING SOON​

http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/comingsoon/comingsoon_wolgast_bobby.htm