Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[HeartofTexas]

If you look at this picture of Johnny Wolgast, who also fought in Philly in the mid to late 40's, I see a resemblance to Bobby. I wonder if he could possibly be Bobby's child? And I also wonder if Brody walked away from a family in Philly and thus the reason he changed his name? Obvioulsy, that is just speculation, because I know nothing about Johnny Wolgast and whether that's his real name or not.

http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/comingsoon/comingsoon_wolgast_johnny.htm

 

[HeartofTexas]

I just heard back from my email to the International Boxing Research Corp, and this is what they said:

I have forwarded your email to our boxing historians in Philadelphia, Chuck Hasson and John DiSanto. Check out the Philly website at:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/

Maybe we'll hear something from them.

 

[HeartofTexas]

It doesn't appear Johnny and Bobby are related. Johnny's real name was Christaldi:

Johnny WolgastSex MaleNationality US AmericanAlias Johnny ChristaldiBirth Name John ChristaldiHometown Philadelphia, PADivision Featherweight

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=013221

 

[Dr. Doogie]

So, anyone find anything interesting since I last posted? LOL!

You guys are awesome. I leave my computer to go to work last night and you guys filled three pages with valuable research on Bobby Wolgast.

A couple of observations / opinions:

Ad (Adolph) Wolgast and Bobby do seem to be different people. Ad fought about 15 years earlier than Bobby. Ad is who faought Frank Genaro - I believe that the picture misidentified Genaro's opponent as Bobby. One thought - could Ad be the father / relative of Bobby?

Midget appears to be someone different than Bobby. The pictures of the two look too different for it to be the same guy.

I believe that the Bobby who fought in 1940 in San Francisco is our Bobby. This fight occured 13 years after the Philly Bobby last fought, which would explain the weight difference. It also would place Bobby in SF which matches Brody. The record of "0-1-0" probably reflects that this Bobby was looking for a paycheck and didn't bother to have his record from Philly transfered to the CA Boxing Commision.

Someone asked the question of whether we should try and link Bobby Wolgast
and the Kukoda's. I believe that this would solidify that this is Brody. I suspect that Wolgast met Maragret Kukoda somewhere in PA between the 1930 census and the fight in 1940.

Based on what I have seen here, in my humble opinion, George Brody and Bobby Wolgast are the person. We just need to fill in the gaps and flesh out the details about how Wolgast became Brody.

 

[Shadow205]

More information on Midget Wolgast (sorry if this has already been posted) As I mentioned before, we have found records where Bobby was boxing in 1925. Midget would have only been 15 years old in 1925. I think this pretty much confirms that Midget & Bobby are 2 different people.

Midget Wolgast
​

"Joseph Robert Loscalzo"
​

Born: 7/18/10 - Died: 10/19/55​

South Philly - Flyweight​

​

​

 

[HeartofTexas]

FWIW, and again relating to the fighter Johnny Wolgast, whose real name was Christaldi, I found a Joseph Christaldi from Philadelphia who was 3 years old at the time of the 1910 Miracode PA Index, which means he was born in 1907, and who does not appear on any of the Death Indexes. I guess it's possible, though not probable, that Bobby Wolgast's real name was Christaldi. Does anyone but me see a bit of a resemblance between Bobby and Johnny's picture?

 

[HeartofTexas]

My head is spinning again, so it's probably time for me to take a break from all of these Wolgast boxers! Shadow's post #433 above mentioned a Johnny Wolgast, brother of Ad Wolgast, who fought some Snell guy in 1925 in Philly. I don't see how the two Johnny's can be the same one, though, since one was fighting in 1925, and the other fought from 1945-1950, so I'm totally confused. Did I mention totally???

 

[mysteriew]

What is the average length of a boxing career? There have been indications from some of the boxers that they started as young as 18 or 19. A 25 year span would make them 43.

 

[MagicRose99]

The angle of Johnny's head makes it hard to tell... they seem to have the same nose tho...

FWIW, and again relating to the fighter Johnny Wolgast, whose real name was Christaldi, I found a Joseph Christaldi from Philadelphia who was 3 years old at the time of the 1910 Miracode PA Index, which means he was born in 1907, and who does not appear on any of the Death Indexes. I guess it's possible, though not probable, that Bobby Wolgast's real name was Christaldi. Does anyone but me see a bit of a resemblance between Bobby and Johnny's picture?

 

[MagicRose99]

With all the names bantered about I'm getting a little confused... What Wolgast are we looking for? Do we have a DOB or place? Any other pertinent info we should be aware of while searching?

 

[SherlockJr]

The angle of Johnny's head makes it hard to tell... they seem to have the same nose tho...

MagicRose, I remember you also had a photo program to overlay these pics? Can you do the same with your program, maybe you outcome might be a little different than MB's. No offense MB, just curious if different programs produce different outcomes.

 

[mbroemsen]

I believe that the Bobby who fought in 1940 in San Francisco is our Bobby. This fight occured 13 years after the Philly Bobby last fought, which would explain the weight difference. It also would place Bobby in SF which matches Brody. The record of "0-1-0" probably reflects that this Bobby was looking for a paycheck and didn't bother to have his record from Philly transfered to the CA Boxing Commision.

Doogie, I am a bit confused. the boxing records showed the other Bobby in san francisco (not the one we think is Wolgast. What did I overlook?

As a side note, I found a Robert F. from the 1930 census, who was listed as the son of 2 Wolgasts - the mothers name was Wanda. He was also born 1907. At first I thought perhaps it made sense he might use his mothers new name (assuming this was a second marriage) but I dismissed it as he couldnt be in two places at the same time. I cant remember what state, but I think it was oklahoma or kansas? I dont know if its really worth looking up again, since we think our was in Bucks - but it was interesting how he turned up, since he had a different last name, but the parents we were Wolgasts. I might go thru and check them all later this evening. Might also be worth looking thru the Kukodas again for any Roberts that might have lodged or been a neighbor about the time?

Also, onthe 1930 census for the man we think is our Brody - he listed Printing as his job, noted that he didnt work the day before... and there is a line item number for unemployment. Does anyone know if we can somehow trace that?

 

[MagicRose99]

I did do one and forwarded it to Doogie... maybe Doogie can post it for us?

Eyes, nose, mouth lined up perfectly in my overlay!

MagicRose, I remember you also had a photo program to overlay these pics? Can you do the same with your program, maybe you outcome might be a little different than MB's. No offense MB, just curious if different programs produce different outcomes.

 

[mbroemsen]

Annasmom....

Does the fact that Brody may have been a boxer change your opinion on if he might have been able to take Anna himself? I know he was old and sick, but if this was our man, he doesnt seem weak enough to be afraid of physical confrontation.

Another side note: I wonder if Brody changed his name not because of numerology, but for another reason - in trouble with the law, avoiding the draft (although his last fight was in an armory?).. It doesnt appear that MK or GW had to change thier names on his suggestion... Synanon and all that jazz didnt start until the late 50's - and from what I have read, Brody appears to have changed his earlier than this. Perhaps my dates are a bit off, but I am thinking he probably changed his name sometime between his last fight (1926) and when he met Margaret, which was in the eary 50s? Thats a huge time span to dig for a needle in a haystack, but perhaps looking at draft time, or what might be other key time periods would be a start?

 

[mbroemsen]

MagicRose, I remember you also had a photo program to overlay these pics? Can you do the same with your program, maybe you outcome might be a little different than MB's. No offense MB, just curious if different programs produce different outcomes.

No offense at all. Its different sitting here and working with it than just looking at the final outcome. As much as I felt it was a dead match, I'm glad we can can analyze in a couple of ways. What I did was pretty rudimentary, so I was worried that maybe it wouldnt give very accurate results.

The last picture I did with the younger brody was the best, and when I fade it, the nose fits on top perfectly, especially at the tip. As for the ears, if those pictures arent exactly the same size, and I am sure I am off by atleast a little because I eyeballed it, then they wouldnt necessarily match up exactly - but to me, the placement on the head and angle of them seem to be right, especially with the glasses

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, I am a bit confused. the boxing records showed the other Bobby in san francisco (not the one we think is Wolgast. What did I overlook?

I believe that SF Bobby Wolgast and Philly Bobby Wolgast are the same person. I believe that BW fought last in Philly in 1927, then moved to San Francisco and came out of retirement for one fight in 1940.

And just to add to the confusion, it appears that both Bobby and Midget Wolgast fought Frankie Genaro. If someone has the time they should print out hard copies of the following two links and compare the fights of these two to settle that they are two different people:

Bobby Wolgast
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=010077

Midget Wolgast
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=9568

And to answer the question, we are looking at Bobby Wolgast as possibly being George Brody.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Also, onthe 1930 census for the man we think is our Brody - he listed Printing as his job, noted that he didnt work the day before...

Hold it! Wolgast was a printer? I am a printer. Wolgast was a boxer? I was a boxer. I think that we have found Brody, and he is...me?

 

[SherlockJr]

Hold it! Wolgast was a printer? I am a printer. Wolgast was a boxer? I was a boxer. I think that we have found Brody, and he is...me?

Ok, how do you explain the Doctor of Music?

 

[HeartofTexas]

Thank goodness we have finally found our man! And it is YOU! So what happened to your brain that you would want to write such gibberish about fear and suicide and stuff!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Another side note: I wonder if Brody changed his name not because of numerology, but for another reason - in trouble with the law, avoiding the draft (although his last fight was in an armory?).. It doesnt appear that MK or GW had to change thier names on his suggestion... Synanon and all that jazz didnt start until the late 50's - and from what I have read, Brody appears to have changed his earlier than this. Perhaps my dates are a bit off, but I am thinking he probably changed his name sometime between his last fight (1926) and when he met Margaret, which was in the eary 50s? Thats a huge time span to dig for a needle in a haystack, but perhaps looking at draft time, or what might be other key time periods would be a start?

Some real good questions here, MB.

Boxing was and is a very corrupt sport and criminal influence was even stronger in the era that he fought. Who knows what may have occured that might cause him to need to become someone else.

Also, the name change seems to have occured sometime between 1940 and 1962 (which is the first confirmed use of the name Brody and his living with Margaret, though both of those events must have occured prior to this date). One obvious big event during this window was WWII, so it is possible that he changed his name in an effort to avoid the draft (even though he would have been in his thirties, I believe that men of that age were still elegible for the draft). Remember that Waters was fighting a legal battle to avoid being drafted when he met Brody and Brody seems to have dictated some of the correspondence to the draft board for Waters. This would fit if Brody had also avoided the draft in WWII. If Brody had served, he might not have thought much of Waters attempts to not serve. (All speculation on my part!)

A quick note: the fight at the Armory was Midget, not Bobby. Bobby is who we think was Brody and Midget was someone else. See the above links for a comparison of there two careers.