Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[Dr. Doogie]

Sherlock, would it be possible to trace this Giordano back to see if he traces back to any of the other Giordano's we have located?

We know that at least some of them were fighting in Calif. at one point, so if they settled there, they may have had children. Might be helpful in either ruling them in or out.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Lets see what we can find out!

 

[Shadow205]

Oh my, Now I'm confused. Is Giordano the name that Bobby Wolgast was before he became Bobby Wolgast? Or is Giordano some one totally different?

**Never mind, I looked it up myself. Bobby Wolgast was born Anthony Giordano.

I just received information from one of the boxing sites that I have requested information on. Here is the post:

Bobby Wolgast the flyweight/bantam who won "newspaper decicions" over Frankie Genaro, Pancho Villa and Joe Lynch in Philadelphia in 1923 was born Anthony Giordano in Philadelphia around 1900. His Picture was on the cover of RING magazine, April 1924 edition.
Chuck Hasson
phillyboxinghistory.com

Another post:

this article is of interest

on 27 jan 1933 it was reported as follows


Punch Drunk Fighter is reported as improving

Pittburg Jan 27 (AP)

Bobby Wolgast, 27 year old Philadelphia boxer
Recovering from an operation to correct
“Punch drunkness” is reported as resting
easily and in good condition today at
St.Francis hospital.
Friends of the boxer from Philadelphia
Called him tonight to find how he was feeling
But he was unable to get to the telephone.

Wolgast is expected to be in the hospital
For a week or more yet
and another post:

Rob, that was an intersting story about Bobby Wolgast being punch-drunk. I think Bobby died around 1975. He was a fixture around the VBA club (#1 chapter) in Philly. Bobby took a lot of ribbing from the members about being punchy, some good natured and some not. He would periodically be banned from the club for boor assing etc. by Tony Morgano (long time president) after some members made complaints. But Willie O'Neill, who trained Jeff Chandler, would always talk to Tony and get Bobby reinstated "if he behaved himself. Willie claimed that although Bobby was "a little punchy" he wasn't as bad as he sometimes let on and some of his act was done as an attention getter.
Chuck

here is the link to the forum http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum/showthread.php?p=29878&posted=1#post29878


I have posted asking Chuck if he knew Bobby Wolgast personally(sounds like he did) and also for the time frame that he was "a fixture" around the VBA Club.

 

[SherlockJr]

He would periodically be banned from the club for boor assing....



Do I dare ask what this is?

 

[Shadow205]

Received this reply this morning from Chuck at cyberboxingzone:

Re: Looking for info on Bobby Wolgast
Sorry Shadow but I did not know Bobby Wolgast. My late friend Willie O'Neill relayed the stories about Bobby to me. The Phila. VBA # 1 was formed around 1936 and was the first in the U.S. and I imagine Bobby, who was a lifetime resident of Philly, was hanging around since its inception. I am not sure when Bobby died but 1975 seems to be the year that I recall but I may be wrong. I really don't know where his residence was and probably those who knew him personally are now few if any.
Sorry I couldn't be more help. If I find any more info on Bobby I will post it here.
Chuck

If this is true, then I don't think that it is possible that George Brody and Bobby Wolgast (Anthony Giordano) are the same person.

 

[Shadow205]

This seems to fit the information provided by Chuck:

Anthony GIORDANO Birth Date:10 Nov 1901 Death Date:Jul 1978
Death Residence Localities ZIP Code:19135 Localities: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tacony, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wissinoming, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=ancestorsearchresults.asp

 

[SherlockJr]

This seems to fit the information provided by Chuck:

Anthony GIORDANO Birth Date:10 Nov 1901 Death Date:Jul 1978
Death Residence Localities ZIP Code:19135 Localities: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tacony, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wissinoming, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=ancestorsearchresults.asp

According to the article of interest about punchdrunkness, he was 27 yrs old in Jan 1933. That should put his birth year 1905.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Based on this information, it does seem that Wolgast/Giordano is not Brody. Dammit! I thought we had him.

I guess this means that we go back to the other Philly boxers and take another look.

Great sleuthing, you guys! As always, the stuff that you uncover is amazing.

 

[Shadow205]

Dr.Doogie,

I know how you feel, I really hated to post that information.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr.Doogie,

I know how you feel, I really hated to post that information.

Shadow:

I would always rather know the uncomfortable truth than to waste time persuing a comfortable error.

 

[Shadow205]

Doogie,

Did I ever tell you that I really love your attitude? Well, I do. So, that said, it's back to digging. I refuse to give up. We will find Anna.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

http://www.szentesinfo.hu/mozaik/2004/exkluziv/2004-11-27_enekes-istvan-.jpg

This is my opinion only. I could use some feedback. I think our George Brody is the man pictured above. WHY?

His name is Istvan Enekes, a gold metalist in the 1932 Olympics held in Los Angeles. He was born in Budapest 02-20-1911 and is said to have died(which I doubt) 01-02-1940.

I think he entered the USA (maybe illegally) using his fellow Olympian's name of Gyorgy Brody, who was born 07-21-1908. His features do not match our George but Istvan Enekes ears and nose do.

They were both Jewish Hungarians and were inducted into the hall of fame.

GOOGLE their names for more pics and info.

I wanted to bump this forward: this is another boxer whom we should examine - he got lost in the Wolgast whirlwind of research. One quick note: it appears that in Hungarian, it is common to list the last name first, so he may also be listed as Enekes Istvan on some sites.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I'm not sure why Skywatchin feels like Enekes Istvan (not sure which way his name is correctly said, but I found it with Enekes first and Istvan second), but even the foreign sites (which I can't read at all, except for dates of birth and death) show he died January 2, 1940 (as shown in the url below). Is there a reason you doubt he died at that time?

http://www.mek.oszk.hu/00300/00355/html/ABC03609/03762.htm

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's a url with a picture of his tombstone. I'm still assuming he actually died in 1940.

http://www.mob.hu/belso/memorian/images/enekes.jpg

 

[Niteowl]

Another picture at
http://www.webenetics.com/hungary/olympic_1932.htm

 

[Niteowl]

And on this page about the 1936 Olympics is Gyorgy Brody's year of death-

http://www.webenetics.com/hungary/olympic_1936.htm

 

[smile22]

do we have any pictures of this gyorge brody guy

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I'm not sure why Skywatchin feels like Enekes Istvan (not sure which way his name is correctly said, but I found it with Enekes first and Istvan second), but even the foreign sites (which I can't read at all, except for dates of birth and death) show he died January 2, 1940 (as shown in the url below). Is there a reason you doubt he died at that time?

http://www.mek.oszk.hu/00300/00355/html/ABC03609/03762.htm

The working hypothesis is that Enekes faked his death in 1940, then immigrated to the US using the identity of fellow Olympian Gyorgy Brody. The tie-in is that Enekes somewhat resembles Brody and was on the same Olympic team as a 'Gyorgy Brody", which could have easily been "Americanized" to "George Brody". And remember, Enekes was a jew in Hungary at the beginning of World War II - there was a lot of motivation to get out of Europe quickly and as anonymously as possible. Another interesting possible link: the Kukoda family was founded in America by a Hungarian immigrant around the turn of the century - could there be a family relationship with Enekes?

If somebody has access to immigration records of this era, we should check to see if there was a George Brody who arrived from Hungary in 1940.

This is weak at the moment, based on a lot of speculation and conjecture, but seems like it is worth taking a closer look at.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

do we have any pictures of this gyorge brody guy

http://www.jewishsports.net/BioPages/GyorgyBrody.htm

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=825are2.jpg&.src=ph

 

[rideforfun]

I've been wondering with the current high public interest in the Da Vinchi code if we should post some basic information on the "final details" note with the note to some of the websites geered toward people who like to break codes. We could write up the basics of the note possibly connecting to a missing person case, the names, the date written, believe to reference insurance, that George was a doctor, etc. We could post the attempts we've made. at decoding. It might open up some new areas if people who were talented in codes looked at it from that angle. And, it could drive more people to this website to get involved. We should probably say that the note writers were involved in Kabalarians also in case this code has a math solution.

Okay -- I'm going to reduce my gulping of energy drinks and go back to lurking now.

 

[mfmangel1]

I may be missing something regarding the new pictures of Gyorgy Brody. The info states they were taken in 1932.

Didn't we guesstimate the "Marguerite Kilroy" portrait was done in the late 1940's to early 1950's? If so, the individual aged greatly during that time period. I know that can happen to some of us!

Please advise us as to any new info from the police case file that you finally received. I am most interested in where Waters and Brody were immediately after Anna'a disappearance, who knew they were leaving town, the purpose of their trip, how long they were gone, who they were with, their alibies, etc....PLEASE do not tell me the police did not follow up on this line of investigation.

In researching the legal filings re: Brody, Waters, Kukoda and The Historic Tenderloin District. THTD has filed several very small suits against a George Waters over the years.