Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody, Part 2

[GraceBlue]

We are not trying to keep anything from you, but we might be liable to a lawsuit if we published this name before we have any definite connection. I saw your post about Anna's pages on the Rose Cole thread and want to assure you that when things slow down, it's because Doogie, SherlockJr. and others including me have run into a wall ourselves (as had happened up until this recent development.) The person involved obtained a copy of the original police report on Anna. We do not know why, or what she did with it, and we are trying to find out quietly without prematurely raising suspicions or making ourselves vulnerable to legal action. I hope this reassures you somewhat. We can only throw a bone when we have one to throw. Mostly I would like everyone to know that we are still alive and still working on the case. I have written to LE to ask that they request passport information on Anna. Gina recently found that although they would NOT release information to me, her mother, because of "privacy issues", there is a provision if the request comes from law enforcement on official letterhead. Doogie is working on preparing the manuscript for publication. AnnasUnc is working on the web page and plotting strategy for media coverage, which is his area of expertise. Sherlock, whom I met in person for the first time last week, continues to follow up on various ideas we have mentioned previously on the forum.

Annasmom-

Thank you for the update. I figured there was something going on behind the scenes. I am glad to hear that things are happening! About the person obtaining a copy of Anna's police report, it sure is weird. Maybe she's onto something?
If there's ANYTHING I can do/look up for you, please don't hestitate to ask me. PM me if you don't want to ask directly on the board. I'm here to help anytime you need it.

 

[Cubby]

That's one of the things we're trying to find out. By the way, it was Cubby who dug up the information on the passport business. Sorry, Cubby.

No problem. I hope LE investigates the names of any child GW may have traveled with in the event he did so with Anna under a different name.

I have a few idea's that I have discussed with Annas mom via pm which I will share on a seperate thread since they don't necesarily fit into any of the threads currently started.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

THanks for the update Annasmom...So what you are saying is: Someone requested a copy of the police report on Annas disappearance. This same woman was at one time a person of interest & now you have now found they are somehow connected with a contact of Waters mentioned in the BFH? Interesting. I guess I'm back to my original question, (If you can answer it without a potential lawsuit) Was this name mentioned on the forum or only in your private investigation? Since there have been 100s of names mentioned here, (either proper or descriptive in nature) a yes or no answer should not put you in jeopardy of a lawsuit. Can you tell how long ago the police report was requested by this woman? Was it recently or back in the the 70's when Anna went missing? I can certainly understand your fear of a lawsuit, there are always people who want to make a buck off of a tragedy.

 

[SherlockJr]

THanks for the update Annasmom...So what you are saying is: Someone requested a copy of the police report on Annas disappearance. This same woman was at one time a person of interest & now you have now found they are somehow connected with a contact of Waters mentioned in the BFH? Interesting. I guess I'm back to my original question, (If you can answer it without a potential lawsuit) Was this name mentioned on the forum or only in your private investigation? Since there have been 100s of names mentioned here, (either proper or descriptive in nature) a yes or no answer should not put you in jeopardy of a lawsuit. Can you tell how long ago the police report was requested by this woman? Was it recently or back in the the 70's when Anna went missing? I can certainly understand your fear of a lawsuit, there are always people who want to make a buck off of a tragedy.

Quoted in an earlier thread:

I received the following email from the detective:

"Mr. French,

I retrieved the information you requested and compared the color DMV photo print of (the Kukoda relative) to Anna's age progression photo. I also had others in my office compare the photos and ask if there was any way possible the two pictures might be the same individual. It is everyone's opinion that the photos are of two different people. Additionally, the eye color in the DMV photo is difficult to see clearly, but is listed as a color other than brown, which is the eye color listed for Anna.

The female we spoke of yesterday was named (MH - edited for TOS). The paperwork we have indicates she was a private investigator from Berkeley, California and she was retained by Mr. and Mrs. Ford (Annasmom and Joe Ford). The date on the letter requesting a copy of the report is May 16, 1974."

My next step is to contact the actual PI that the family hired and see if Ms. H was an associate. I will let you know.


iW, this person Ms. H had went to the police dept to get a copy of police report back in 1974. Annasmom had never noticed this name in all her papers. An address was mentioned more recently and we found a person with this same unique name was listed living at this address sometime in the past. I think my next call will be to the SF public library to do a look up of a time period of when this person(s) lived at this address.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I have in the past explained why some parts of this investigation is conducted "off-forum", but it has been awhile, so I will reiterate why this happens sometimes.

There are parts of this investigation that involve looking into people who may or may not have actual involvement in the disappearance. By posting those names (or even enough details that the person could be identified), we lose the element of surprise. It is quite possible that people who were involved in Anna's abduction are monitoring this website. To publicly announce everything that we are doing is to telegraph what areas a conspirator needs to coverup, which is counter-productive to our search.

Another reason why we may not post everything is that some areas are very sensitive and require a certain level of diplomacy that we lose control of if anybody and everybody can post about it. For example, the relatives of Margaret Kukoda (who by every bit of evidence that we have found was an innocent victim of the con-man Brody) were being extremely helpful in our search, then a member started posting wild, baseless speculation that Margaret may have been involved in a black-market baby ring and poof, the Kukodas disappear. This is not a coincidence and the end result is that we have lost a valuable asset and allies in our search.

I have seen that activity had slowed quite a bit on the website and I wanted to share what I could about areas of investigation that were not being posted in the forum. I have always tried to balance the concern for effectiveness and the concern for openess. I want to let everyone know everything that we are doing, but I will not compromise this investigation for the sake of avoiding people feeling left out. I know that it can be frustrating at times, but know that it is not based on personalities - it is based on my best opinion of how we can ultimately find Anna.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

This was posted on the Rose Cole thread:

...I can't talk for everyone, but I do know there are some of us who are at the point where unless some new info is shared and brought to the forum, we are at a dead end. As is with the Anna Waters case, the most vital information is kept under lock and key. It is very aggravating here and other 30+ year old cases when we are told "There are exciting new developments we can't share with the forum", ("but you can continue to research the dead ends as long as those dead ends don't include the word dead.") The only thing that accomplishes is a feeling of superiority of the person writing it, and disappointment from the person reading it. If you can't tell, don't even mention it. I have noticed on several cases when this is done, the case goes stagnant. Many of us lose interest. We need to be thrown a bone every once in a while.

If anyone thinks that my motivation for posting what I post (or not posting what I do not post) is attempting to gain a sense of superiority over others, then they do not understand me and my reasons for doing this. Annasmom and her family are good people who have had a bad thing happen to them. I feel that I have something to offer them that may right this wrong. I have been working on this for years now (long before we came to Websleuths) and the only "reward" is the knowledge that I am doing a good deed. I do not expect any other reward, but I sure as hell do expect that my motivations would not be impugned like this.

I have spent numerous hours fretting that I am failing in our search (Did I do enough? Did I miss something? Would someone else do a better job at this than me?) - is this the sense of superiority that you mention? If this is what it is like to feel superior to someone else, then a sense of superiority is highly overated.

If you feel the need to be thrown a bone, I would point out that when you are updated with as much information as I can give out safely at that time, you say that you are being kept in the dark. I am sorry that you are disappointed and bored, but if you want constant excitement, go buy a mystery novel. This is real life - a investigation being done by amatuers that will have uneventful periods and other times where information cannot be shared freely. The purpose here is to not keep you entertained - it is to find Anna. I believe that most people here understand that and accept that there will be lulls in what is posted here. I appreciate their patience and am grateful for all of the assistance that everyone has to offer.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Annasmom-

Thank you for the update. I figured there was something going on behind the scenes. I am glad to hear that things are happening! About the person obtaining a copy of Anna's police report, it sure is weird. Maybe she's onto something?
If there's ANYTHING I can do/look up for you, please don't hestitate to ask me. PM me if you don't want to ask directly on the board. I'm here to help anytime you need it.

When did this person as for a copy of the police report? Was it recently or???
Thanks


Never mind - I THINK I understand after reading a few more posts.

 

[rideforfun]

Thanks Doogie for all you do. I'm mostly just a person who reads, prays and little else but I sure thank you for your outstanding leadership. I'm waiting to hear what our next areas of focus should be -- I'm hopeful that you'll reach a point where it makes sense to talk to the police about the breakin's and possible POI's that were never charged. I think that could prove valuable. I'm happy to help in any way possible but I can only say hat's off to you, Annsmom, Sherlock and others who have skills that I don't have. God Bless. Gayle

 

[laini]

I have spent numerous hours fretting that I am failing in our search (Did I do enough? Did I miss something? Would someone else do a better job at this than me?) .

I don't think anybody else could do a better job then you are Dr. Doogie. And I appreciate you sharing what you can when you can. The way Anna's threads have been run can be an example to us all on how to keep drama out and the case (Anna!) in the spotlight. :clap:

 

[Dr. Doogie]

When did this person as for a copy of the police report? Was it recently or???
Thanks

It was shortly after Anna disappeared (within the first year).

The first time we looked at this person, it appeared that this person had obtained the report at the request of a friend of the family (Annasmom and Joe Ford). This may still be the case (we are rechecking our information), but we have now linked this person's unique last name to an address of a person who was mentioned in George Waters' personal papers. In other words, a person that was mentioned by Waters lived at an address where people with the same last name as the person who obtained the report lived. The question is did this person obtain the report on behalf of Annnasmom and Joe Ford, or did she obtain it for George Waters? And if she did obtain it for Waters, was this the limit of her dealings with him?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...If you feel the need to be thrown a bone, I would point out that when you are updated with as much information as I can give out safely at that time, you say that you are being kept in the dark. I am sorry that you are disappointed and bored, but if you want constant excitement, go buy a mystery novel. This is real life - a investigation being done by amatuers that will have uneventful periods and other times where information cannot be shared freely. The purpose here is to not keep you entertained - it is to find Anna. I believe that most people here understand that and accept that there will be lulls in what is posted here. I appreciate their patience and am grateful for all of the assistance that everyone has to offer.

WOW... Didn't mean to get you all worked up. It wasn't my intentions at all. Though I have only spent a mere 8 months researching Anna's disappearance, it is nothing compared to the years you have. This forum is public, and I realize that you can't lay everything on the line. Though my wording is not always as eloquent as others, it is very frustrating to hear of exciting new developments that can't be shared with the forum. Not because I need excitement, or I feel left out, but I have found working in a local government public arena for many years, that the most diplomatic way to handle such situations is not to mentioned it to the general public until you can give them the entire story. Human are programmed by nature to be curious, and hungry for knowledge. (Psychology 101) Remember Pavlov's Dog? He trained it to salivate when he rang a bell by always ringing a bell right before he fed him? The dog got to a point he would salivate by just hearing a bell ring, wether he was rewarded or not. Humans are no different than Pavlov's Dog, except we can type and ask question and voice our oppenion...(I heard the bell ring, why aren't you feeding me?) :truce: I'm Sorry that I offended you.

 

[MagicRose99]

Doogie, those of us who know and understand all you do and have done appreciate everything you "throw" our way. We also understand when you cannot relay certain information or hold back somethings for whatever reason... Don't feel like you have to share every little detail at all times, because we know you'll give us what you can... when you can.

You and the others are impressive with what you are doing... It's time consuming and you do have to protect yourselves along the way.

My only regret is that there isn't much I can do... I don't have the skill for research, so when my picture editing skills are needed, I feel more useful than just being a lurker or "idea tosser". You know if there is anything I can ever do, you only have to give me a holler!

 

[MagicRose99]

WOW... Didn't mean to get you all worked up. It wasn't my intentions at all. Though I have only spent a mere 8 months researching Anna's disappearance, it is nothing compared to the years you have. This forum is public, and I realize that you can't lay everything on the line. Though my wording is not always as eloquent as others, it is very frustrating to hear of exciting new developments that can't be shared with the forum. Not because I need excitement, or I feel left out, but I have found working in a local government public arena for many years, that the most diplomatic way to handle such situations is not to mentioned it to the general public until you can give them the entire story. Human are programmed by nature to be curious, and hungry for knowledge. (Psychology 101) Remember Pavlov's Dog? He trained it to salivate when he rang a bell by always ringing a bell right before he fed him? The dog got to a point he would salivate by just hearing a bell ring, wether he was rewarded or not. Humans are no different than Pavlov's Dog, except we can type and ask question and voice our oppenion...(I heard the bell ring, why aren't you feeding me?) :truce: I'm Sorry that I offended you.

I'm sorry... but I disagree. I'd rather know that something is "in the works" than to wonder if anything at all is going on. I do know that if and when Doogie (or the others) can relate info to us, they will and they do... I don't need to be in on every little step or know every little bit of information, but it is comforting to know that they are doing something.

I respect the fact the Doogie, Annasmom, Sherlock and the others are hard at work behind the scenes and know that when they have something they can share that they will share with us.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

WOW... Didn't mean to get you all worked up. It wasn't my intentions at all...

As long as we are all on the same page here, I hope we can move forward. I have no desire to blast anyone and I hope that everybody (especially myself) keeps focused on finding Anna.

To everyone: I do want to address some of the PM's that I have received from various people with suggestions for expanding the search. I receive them often - most of them are probably worth looking into, but my time constraints are such that I cannot personally follow up on them. That may be one area that each of you can help when some of us are off on other pursuits in the investigation. Things such as Synanon or other cults can be looked into by anyone willing to dredge through the online info about them. If someone can find something of specific interest (for example, the young Synanon girl in the one picture who resembled Anna), then we can focus more effort on that particular area. Without anything more specific than "Have you considered that Anna may have been taken by (fill in the blank)?", I cannot devote time to looking into it.

I appreciate the brainstorming of ideas, but people could be of great help to us if they continue on to the next step which is to research what you can about your suspect group or idea and find something that warrants our attention. Your idea may be the missing clue that we need, but without a reason to consider it, it also has the potential of distracting us from more productive research. The only time that I have discouraged an avenue of research is when it is a pathway that we have already travelled. Even then, it may be worthy of a second look with a different set of eyes.

No one should feel that they need mine or anyone elses "permission" to explore areas that they feel strongly about. Just please understand that you may have to travel that road alone for awhile until you have enough evidence to cause us to join you. If you need suggestions in how to pursue that information, please post it in a generic manner or PM myself or others that may be able to help you find what you seek.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Did GW, (or GB) have any ties to Las Vegas that anyone would know of? Did he visit to see the shows, have relatives, or like to gamble recreational?

 

[Annasmom]

Did GW, (or GB) have any ties to Las Vegas that anyone would know of? Did he visit to see the shows, have relatives, or like to gamble recreational?

No, none of that whatsoever. He was working several jobs as a physician, remember.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

No, none of that whatsoever. He was working several jobs as a physician, remember.

We know he did take at least one long vacation. I know I personally would never go to Vegas with the little vacation time I had when I was working 3 jobs and going to school...(I still wouldn't...LOL) You said he enjoyed traveling abroad, I wonder where he liked to travel in the good old USA.

 

[Annasmom]

We know he did take at least one long vacation. I know I personally would never go to Vegas with the little vacation time I had when I was working 3 jobs and going to school...(I still wouldn't...LOL) You said he enjoyed traveling abroad, I wonder where he liked to travel in the good old USA.

As a student, he traveled to Europe, Greece, Egypt, but in the seven years we were together, I only remember his summer fellowship in Greece and one brief vacation (before Anna was born) to Ensenada, just over the Mexican border. The few trips he made in the USA were just to the local draft board in New York. Also, we do not know that he took a vacation after Anna went missing, only that the desk clerk at the hotel did not see him there for some time. Since GW and GB seem to have had more than one address, it is difficult to account for this absence.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

"The female we spoke of yesterday was named (MH - edited for TOS). The paperwork we have indicates she was a private investigator from Berkeley, California and she was retained by Mr. and Mrs. Ford (Annasmom and Joe Ford). The date on the letter requesting a copy of the report is May 16, 1974."

My next step is to contact the actual PI that the family hired and see if Ms. H was an associate. I will let you know.

SherlockJr has been able to locate and have a brief phone conversation with MH. MH has promised to call back in a week (after some visitors have left) and provide what information she can. Our thanks go out to MH for whatever help she can offer clarifying her role in the early search for Anna (she was involved in 1974).

Her most likely role was that she briefly looked into the case at the behest of a friend of Annasmom and Joe Ford. However, until her interest in the case clarified, she remains someone who we would like to discuss the case with. If the remote possibility that she was in the employ of George Waters is correct, this will confirm more suspicious behavior on Waters's part.

I ask that people refrain from posting any questions for or theories about MH at this time. Her assistance is important and our desire is that nothing occur on this board would prevent that cooperation. If there is something that you feel is important to ask MH, please PM or email SherlockJr and myself off-forum. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[InterestedNHelping]

Dr Doogie, your diplomacy is wonderful...well said, and it is understood, and appreciated that we know about this development. Thank you