Theory Theory - Theories about why - Something else

[Ghostwheel]

I note that there is some talk of modifying gait, I propose some of that is due to the darkness. It looks brighter to us because IR does that, but in real life, that alcove would be really dark. There is a step up onto the porch, so in the dark you'd have to be careful of your footing. Note the light flashes briefly right before the step. Like he knows it's there somewhere. After picking up the foliage, there is a twist of his body and step up that looks like he over compensated. I can imagine that someone would step carefully if going from some moonlight into a dark alcove. My own thoughts.

 

[iamshadow21]

When I was thinking about what might have happened to NG, I thought of Ted Bundy. Although he attacked younger females, some of his methods may be relevant to what happened at NG's house.

Bundy attacked women at home in a number of crimes. He acted alone. He carried them away himself in his own car, and disposed of them in remote locations. Some of his victims have never been found. Sexual assaults of various types were his part of his methodology. He also went back to the disposal sites.

At the beginning of his criminal career, when he was a young teen, he was thought to be responsible for kidnapping and murder of 8 year old Ann Marie Burr, in Tacoma, WA. Bundy lived in the same neighborhood. Ann Marie Burr was never found.

I speculate that NG might have been the victim of a psychopath like Bundy, acting alone, who lives in her neighborhood or is familiar with it for unknown reasons. There was an attempted assault in the neighborhood that could have been done by the same person. The suspect could be searching for victims in the neighborhood, and familiarized himself with female residents and their routines.

It may have nothing to do with SG, and be a situation where a neighborhood with low lighting levels, substantial cover from vegetation, and a victim unable to fight back were important factors.

In this situation, attempts to collect ransom would be by an opportunist, and unrelated to what happened to NG.

LE may know if there was more than one perpetrator from DNA, and if the ransom notes reflected unique factors known only to the perpetrator.

Just speculation, but I think it could be a lone perpetrator, and that the ransom demand was a separate crime by someone who wasn't involved in removing NG from her home.

We're on a similar wavelength. I drew the parallel to Bundy early on in the main thread.

If you take someone, you want extended time with them. That's why Bundy did it. He kept many of his victims for a period of time, both living and deceased.

MOO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

When I was thinking about what might have happened to NG, I thought of Ted Bundy. Although he attacked younger females, some of his methods may be relevant to what happened at NG's house.

Bundy attacked women at home in a number of crimes. He acted alone. He carried them away himself in his own car, and disposed of them in remote locations. Some of his victims have never been found. Sexual assaults of various types were his part of his methodology. He also went back to the disposal sites.

At the beginning of his criminal career, when he was a young teen, he was thought to be responsible for kidnapping and murder of 8 year old Ann Marie Burr, in Tacoma, WA. Bundy lived in the same neighborhood. Ann Marie Burr was never found.

I speculate that NG might have been the victim of a psychopath like Bundy, acting alone, who lives in her neighborhood or is familiar with it for unknown reasons. There was an attempted assault in the neighborhood that could have been done by the same person. The suspect could be searching for victims in the neighborhood, and familiarized himself with female residents and their routines.

It may have nothing to do with SG, and be a situation where a neighborhood with low lighting levels, substantial cover from vegetation, and a victim unable to fight back were important factors.

In this situation, attempts to collect ransom would be by an opportunist, and unrelated to what happened to NG.

LE may know if there was more than one perpetrator from DNA, and if the ransom notes reflected unique factors known only to the perpetrator.

Just speculation, but I think it could be a lone perpetrator, and that the ransom demand was a separate crime by someone who wasn't involved in removing NG from her home.

Such a scary thought.

 

[seekingjustice**]

I’ve been thinking about different revenge related scenarios and why Nancy might have been specifically targeted, if that’s what happened. If it was connected to SG, I wonder whether something like this could have happened, maybe at some point someone reached out to her about a missing loved one and asked her to show their photo on the Today show or help generate media attention and if they felt ignored or believed she didn’t do anything to help maybe they wanted her to experience what it’s like to have a missing loved one and no answers. Another one I’ve considered is the financial motive. Did NG previously loan a significant amount of money to someone and had been pressing for repayment or threatening legal action, or had someone been embezzling her and was worried she was going to find out!

 

[No it's not]

RELIGIOUS OVERTONES - Intention to hurt/ control SG (IMO future correspondence with SG possible re NG’s final resting place/body)

[No book link provided, as I bought NG’s book ‘Mostly What God Does’]

Page 90 of Savannah Guthrie’s book ‘MOSTLY WHAT GOD DOES’ :

‘About once a year, in the summertime, cousin T… orchestrated a kidnapping of my sister and me. It went down like this: the cousins would visit for a few days at our house in Tucson, and then, on the morning they were to leave, T…would wake us up early, searching us in the predawn darkness as we made our escape. We would all pile into her rickety station wagon and head north, the sky streaking with bright oranges and pinks as the sun rose over the colors, desert landscape. Somewhere between Phoenix and Tucson, T…would make a pitstop and let Annie and recall home at a payphone.“Mom! Cousin T… kidnapped us to take us to her house! “My mother would faint shock, protest, how terrible she would miss us, then assure us she’d drive up to retrieve us in a few days.’

(No link, because I own the book and am quoting this short passage from it. Hope that’s alright.)

The cousin’s name was deleted by me. Family is not to be discussed and has been cleared. The mentioning of a kidnapping as a children’s play in SG’s book has been mentioned on MSN and here. Nothing new. However, if we even think of an individual wanting to hurt SG, I would hope LE was and is still checking out that area between Tucson and Phoenix.

It would be roughly here:

GOOGLE EARTH

It would be worth to have the heli out there and perhaps talk to the native Navajo/Apache. They would have seen a lit up car in the middle of the dark night out in the desert..MOO!!

Just a thought.

ALL IMO

-Nin

[Follow up post]

Chapter11 of her book (Mostly What God Does) on page 90.

The following has been approved by Tricia, as long as I include page numbers of SG’s book:

What caught my attention besides the obvious (the kidnapping game) is the name of the chapter - PSALM 23. SG mentions on page 90 of Chapter 11, that the kidnapping game would result in her (SG) and her sister (AG) calling her mom (NG) from a pit stop somewhere between Tucson and Phoenix (Sonoran Desert) and reporting the kidnapping to their cousin’s T’s house. The mother (NG) would play along and promise to bring them back in a few days.

Pages 91 through 98 : SG goes on stressing the importance of PSALM 23 to her as a spiritual gift from God. On page 93 SG describes PSALM 23 as her secret code between her and God. It seemed to have always been of utmost importance to her. Her entire book is a revelation of her relationship to God.

Does NG’s kidnapping possibly have any religious overtones? Do we have a person, who wants to hurt SG in her most inner core?

While searching for a pitstop, exit or similar on the I10 ( I did check the location in Phoenix, where the relative lived back then, they would have taken I10 IMO) stretch between Tucson and Phoenix I found marker 230. There are frontage roads/ local access.A lot of nothing there except a good amount of greenery/ trees and water features. That would be located in Pinal County.

Marker 230 reminds me of PSALM 23..I might be reaching here, but I just wanted to include that possibility. No stone unturned.

Pinal County does own a state of the art heli by the way with high tech search and rescue equipped. Their heli, tail number N151H ( if you want to check) has not done a SAR mission to my knowledge with a search and rescue profile in that area so far. Perhaps it’s time.

MILE MARKER 230 on I10:

Home | Department of Transportation

azdot.gov

GOOGLE EARTH

COORDINATES: 32°31'51.67"N 111°17'14.50"W

ALL IMO

Thanks,
Nin

If the key does not fit, it's the wrong key.

​

 

[Ladyotm]

We're on a similar wavelength. I drew the parallel to Bundy early on in the main thread.

If you take someone, you want extended time with them. That's why Bundy did it. He kept many of his victims for a period of time, both living and deceased.

MOO

I like this theory. Do you all think in this instant the perp has a (victim) type?

 

[Aquabot13]

When I was thinking about what might have happened to NG, I thought of Ted Bundy. Although he attacked younger females, some of his methods may be relevant to what happened at NG's house.

Bundy attacked women at home in a number of crimes. He acted alone. He carried them away himself in his own car, and disposed of them in remote locations. Some of his victims have never been found. Sexual assaults of various types were his part of his methodology. He also went back to the disposal sites.

At the beginning of his criminal career, when he was a young teen, he was thought to be responsible for kidnapping and murder of 8 year old Ann Marie Burr, in Tacoma, WA. Bundy lived in the same neighborhood. Ann Marie Burr was never found.

I speculate that NG might have been the victim of a psychopath like Bundy, acting alone, who lives in her neighborhood or is familiar with it for unknown reasons. There was an attempted assault in the neighborhood that could have been done by the same person. The suspect could be searching for victims in the neighborhood, and familiarized himself with female residents and their routines.

It may have nothing to do with SG, and be a situation where a neighborhood with low lighting levels, substantial cover from vegetation, and a victim unable to fight back were important factors.

In this situation, attempts to collect ransom would be by an opportunist, and unrelated to what happened to NG.

LE may know if there was more than one perpetrator from DNA, and if the ransom notes reflected unique factors known only to the perpetrator.

Just speculation, but I think it could be a lone perpetrator, and that the ransom demand was a separate crime by someone who wasn't involved in removing NG from her home.

This is my working theory as well - someone who thought of this as a challenge and was in it for "love of the game" for lack of a better term. Like a Bundy or a Kohberger.

I do think that, the longer the perp goes undetected, the more likely he is to strike again. Maybe not the same type of crime, and maybe not for a long time, but I doubt this is a one-time thing. It could be an escalation of previous crimes as well.

I could go either way about the ransom. I agree that some, if not all, of the ransom notes are unrelated. However, if the perp is in this for notoriety (of his skills, I don't think he wants to be caught), I could also see him writing the first few ransom notes. The opportunist could be the killer himself, who wasn't planning to ask for ransom but was annoyed by LE and saw a chance to get publicity (hence TMZ), and escalate the crime further.

MOO

 

[Ladyotm]

RELIGIOUS OVERTONES - Intention to hurt/ control SG (IMO future correspondence with SG possible re NG’s final resting place/body)

[No book link provided, as I bought NG’s book ‘Mostly What God Does’]

Page 90 of Savannah Guthrie’s book ‘MOSTLY WHAT GOD DOES’ :

‘About once a year, in the summertime, cousin T… orchestrated a kidnapping of my sister and me. It went down like this: the cousins would visit for a few days at our house in Tucson, and then, on the morning they were to leave, T…would wake us up early, searching us in the predawn darkness as we made our escape. We would all pile into her rickety station wagon and head north, the sky streaking with bright oranges and pinks as the sun rose over the colors, desert landscape. Somewhere between Phoenix and Tucson, T…would make a pitstop and let Annie and recall home at a payphone.“Mom! Cousin T… kidnapped us to take us to her house! “My mother would faint shock, protest, how terrible she would miss us, then assure us she’d drive up to retrieve us in a few days.’

(No link, because I own the book and am quoting this short passage from it. Hope that’s alright.)

The cousin’s name was deleted by me. Family is not to be discussed and has been cleared. The mentioning of a kidnapping as a children’s play in SG’s book has been mentioned on MSN and here. Nothing new. However, if we even think of an individual wanting to hurt SG, I would hope LE was and is still checking out that area between Tucson and Phoenix.

It would be roughly here:

GOOGLE EARTH

It would be worth to have the heli out there and perhaps talk to the native Navajo/Apache. They would have seen a lit up car in the middle of the dark night out in the desert..MOO!!

Just a thought.

ALL IMO

-Nin

[Follow up post]

Chapter11 of her book (Mostly What God Does) on page 90.

The following has been approved by Tricia, as long as I include page numbers of SG’s book:

What caught my attention besides the obvious (the kidnapping game) is the name of the chapter - PSALM 23. SG mentions on page 90 of Chapter 11, that the kidnapping game would result in her (SG) and her sister (AG) calling her mom (NG) from a pit stop somewhere between Tucson and Phoenix (Sonoran Desert) and reporting the kidnapping to their cousin’s T’s house. The mother (NG) would play along and promise to bring them back in a few days.

Pages 91 through 98 : SG goes on stressing the importance of PSALM 23 to her as a spiritual gift from God. On page 93 SG describes PSALM 23 as her secret code between her and God. It seemed to have always been of utmost importance to her. Her entire book is a revelation of her relationship to God.

Does NG’s kidnapping possibly have any religious overtones? Do we have a person, who wants to hurt SG in her most inner core?

While searching for a pitstop, exit or similar on the I10 ( I did check the location in Phoenix, where the relative lived back then, they would have taken I10 IMO) stretch between Tucson and Phoenix I found marker 230. There are frontage roads/ local access.A lot of nothing there except a good amount of greenery/ trees and water features. That would be located in Pinal County.

Marker 230 reminds me of PSALM 23..I might be reaching here, but I just wanted to include that possibility. No stone unturned.

Pinal County does own a state of the art heli by the way with high tech search and rescue equipped. Their heli, tail number N151H ( if you want to check) has not done a SAR mission to my knowledge with a search and rescue profile in that area so far. Perhaps it’s time.

MILE MARKER 230 on I10:

Home | Department of Transportation

azdot.gov

GOOGLE EARTH

COORDINATES: 32°31'51.67"N 111°17'14.50"W

ALL IMO

Thanks,
Nin

If the key does not fit, it's the wrong key.

​

Your theory is something straight out of psychological thriller! Good theory. Perhaps the letters even had subtle references to her book or the movies she's quoted!!! You might be on to something!

 

[Cassie P]

Ok, I’ll jump in here. NG saw something she shouldn’t have.

I’m with you, low key person, local, yes, maybe even hired( drug case). These people know what to do to avoid detection.
I’m thinking it’s something very local, and connected specifically to NG, she saw something she shouldn’t have, and needed to be gone, so that she would not talk. I know mostly the person is shot, body not taken.

It could have been workers at NG’s house, had drugs in the trunk for their “moonlighting job”.
NG walked by, looked into the trunk, briefly. Maybe she said something, “ is that drugs?” Worker closed trunk, laughed said “No!”. He faulted himself, because he had forgotten to get the drugs out of the trunk earlier. Careless. Later, he got paranoid, told his drug partner. They hatched a plan so that NG would be gone.

Another similar idea, local teens, young adults, NG had met in neighborhood or church friend’s grandchildren.
They had good grades, had gotten into college, good career track. NG was downtown shopping, she ran into these kids, saw them stealing or doing drugs, she told them “that’s illegal, your grandmother would be ashamed of you!”. NG drove away. The kids talked about it, they didn’t want their college, career path to change. They hatched a plan so that NG would be gone.

In these cases, it was just removing NG so that she would not talk, took body so no evidence.
Maybe something as simple as that.

Just an idea.

Yes but first time teen drug users will most likely get probation. First degree murder is life without parole or the death penalty.
Doesn't make sense?

 

[Warwick1991]

I like this theory. Do you all think in this instant the perp has a (victim) type?

I'm not sure if he has a preferred victim type. Perhaps he hasn't done much in the way of violent crime until very recently, and hasn't developed a pattern.... The BTK killer in Wichita, Kansas killed women of different ages, and he also murdered members of the same family, including a man. Just speculation.

 

[SaraSmile]

DBM

 

[SaraSmile]

Yes but first time teen drug users will most likely get probation. First degree murder is life without parole or the death penalty.
Doesn't make sense?

Thanks for your ideas. These ideas are all just for discussion, we are all brainstorming here.

My own main theory was always targeted toward NG, nothing to do with SG.
It’s looking like a BK to me, a thrill kill. NG was gone the first day. Someone very local, young, maybe even NG’s neighborhood, knew her. Maybe worked at her house at one time. I thought 2 people at first, now I’m thinking just one, porch guy, his own secret.
No kidnapping, ransom( opportunists).

I think possibly a person who wanted to see what it feels like to kill someone.
Maybe the person believes he is going to do better than BK, not get caught, that’s his claim to fame. BK failed, left sheath, he won’t make a mistake. Something like that.

I don’t think Bundy sex crime, maybe I just can’t fathom, with an 84 year old. Only consider if a younger person might think it’s easier to control an old person, first time? Get away with it?

Re drug people, I got the idea about the drug people( not cartel, low level), someone else posted earlier in this thread, story in Tucson, someone “saw something they shouldn’t, were offed”. Just an idea. Not my main theory.
As far as not making sense, a lot of drug people do things that don’t make sense, out of desperation, paranoia, etc.

I’ve been enjoying reading all the theories. We should give an award to whoever calls this one, so crazy. Just a few thoughts. I’ve been on the main thread since the beginning, hoping for an arrest soon. JMO

 

[Cassie P]

Thanks for your ideas. These ideas are all just for discussion, we are all brainstorming here.

My own main theory was always targeted toward NG, nothing to do with SG.
It’s looking like a BK to me, a thrill kill. NG was gone the first day. Someone very local, young, maybe even NG’s neighborhood, knew her. Maybe worked at her house at one time. I thought 2 people at first, now I’m thinking just one, porch guy, his own secret.
No kidnapping, ransom( opportunists).

I think possibly a person who wanted to see what it feels like to kill someone.
Maybe the person believes he is going to do better than BK, not get caught, that’s his claim to fame. BK failed, left sheath, he won’t make a mistake. Something like that.

I don’t think Bundy sex crime, maybe I just can’t fathom, with an 84 year old. Only consider if a younger person might think it’s easier to control an old person, first time? Get away with it?

Re drug people, I got the idea about the drug people( not cartel, low level), someone else posted earlier in this thread, story in Tucson, someone “saw something they shouldn’t, were offed”. Just an idea. Not my main theory.
As far as not making sense, a lot of drug people do things that don’t make sense, out of desperation, paranoia, etc.

I’ve been enjoying reading all the theories. We should give an award to whoever calls this one, so crazy. Just a few thoughts. I’ve been on the thread since the beginning, hoping for an arrest soon. JMO

Yes of course. I love brainstorming and even things that might not make sense at first. When I ask questions, I am trying to make puzzle pieces fit together.

Yes I agree, drug addicted kids may do foolish things which make no sense to others but seemed like the right decision when they were high.

If we take SG out of the equation, then yes it opens up the possibilities you raise. It is no longer a business crime, but a personal one.

 

[Napoli]

I'm not sure if he has a preferred victim type. Perhaps he hasn't done much in the way of violent crime until very recently, and hasn't developed a pattern.... The BTK killer in Wichita, Kansas killed women of different ages, and he also murdered members of the same family, including a man. Just speculation.

I think this is a one and done. He wont be taken alive. Suicide by cop or just plain suicide if the cops close in. He has moved on. He got what he needed. He's sitting there amazed he did it and a little afraid he might not get away with it. He's home, listening to the opera and reading poetry. He's done. JMO

There is something called the 23rd SONNET by Shakespeare. I will quote it here:

As an unperfect actor on the stage (Sonnet 23)​

William Shakespeare
1564 –
1616
As an unperfect actor on the stage
Who with his fear is put besides his part,
Or some fierce thing replete with too much rage,
Whose strength’s abundance weakens his own heart,
So I, for fear of trust, forget to say
The perfect ceremony of love’s rite,
And in mine own loves’s strength seem to decay,
O’ercharged with burden of mine one love’s might.
O, let my books be then the eloquence
And dumb presagers of my speaking breast,
Who plead for love and look for recompense
More than that tongue that more hath more express’d.
O, learn to read what silent love hath writ:
To hear with eyes belongs to love’s fine writ.
This poem is in the public domain.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Part of my own problem is trying to make sense of something I would never do. I'm looking for logic, where there likely is none. The person who came up to the front door, imo, had no qualms about whatever they were going to do.

Could it be a one and done? Maybe. On the assumption that she is no longer alive, if they took her and killed by accident, then I could surely see it. But if someone came with the INTENTION of killing, I don't really think so unless it was a personal thing. I suppose there are people who might fantasize abut killing and the reality shocks them into never doing it again, but I just don't think that's the norm with people who intend to kill someone for non specific reasons. JMO, though.