Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[44ALLAN]

No it doesn't. OP doesn't scream like a woman.

LOL exactamundo..........................check mate my friend

 

[Mr Fossil]

I find it strange and disturbing that NO messages were read from OP’s 0020 phone, especially in light of the fact it was MISSING for 11 days. Something totally hinky there. Given his career, lifestyle and wide circle of friends and associates, surely he had a massive digital history. I GUARANTEE you there was highly incriminating sh#t on that phone - if not directly regarding Reeva, then other potentially related, damning issues.

I think Carl, being an IT graduate (or having access to the best and brightest computer professional buddies), was all too willing to selectively scrub clean baby brother’s phone. There would be NO other reason to immediately remove it from the crime scene.

If OP's phone was tampered with, the data that the police extracted will probably indicate this. It certainly explains why it wasn't used to provide any message corroboration. Hopefully the judge and assessors will appreciate the significance of whatever they have before them. That said, as there is no chain of custody for the phone I doubt such evidence can be used, though it might colour their view (if it wasn't already).

 

[44ALLAN]

Yes… but not only learn… also challenge our knowledge, beliefs and preconceived ideas… this forum is great !

It's also great for people like myself................interested in the subject(from my Perry Mason/LA Law days lol) but with no knowledge about it in real life.
It's fascinating reading 'debates' and differing views from your good self and the others on this site it really is.

Please keep up the fantastic work I'm sure it's valued by many others and not just myself :clap::takeabow::takeabow:

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Can I be like a Supply Teacher (one whom stands in when the regular Teacher is on holiday) and try to bring you rabbling Websleuthers back into focus....?? :laughing: :drumroll:

It has come to my attention that in the last 24 hours there has been a lack of focus on what is currently happening in Court.

Judge Masipa, is not just looking at the Heads of Argument.

She is looking at the evidence in its entirety. The HOA are just the major points the Defence & State wish to present as prominent.

This should help people considering phone records, OP's testimony, Screams, Versions & Probabilities.

I raise this because I got pulled down a Rabbit hole earlier when trying to remain objective, debating with someone whom it would appear, was also down a Rabbit hole, although not the same one....

The HOA are making people forget about the Mountain of evidence to be considered. Some of which was not presented in Public.

Let's get back to class fellow Sleuthers... :websleuther:

 

[Lux et Veritas]

“Just a note. I have a little black book. I know how much time I spend on humanitarian work, how much time I give the people close to me. I know what type of person I am. I don’t have to defend myself every five minutes. ... I don’t really do interviews in South Africa any more. ...”
- Oscar Pistorius Jan 2013 [Every time a journalist writes an untruth about him, he makes a note in his little black book, says Oscar Pistorius.]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/fame-isnt-that-great/

Self-admittedly “addicted to perfection off the track as well” (that level of perfectionism implies a control freak) - did OP also keep a “little black book” (if just in his head) on Reeva - her sins and offenses?

(Am I the only one who thinks a “little black book” of lies is more than a little creepy?)


“You are just never too sure in a relationship. You take a chance every time you meet someone. But you can’t be too cynical about anything in life. All you can do is hope the person you’re with has integrity. It is difficult to find the right person, one who is trustworthy, who will keep your private stuff private. It requires a very special person to be in a relationship with a sportsman. I know it. It is not an easy life. I travel so much (in eight months last year he undertook 79 international flights). You need someone who can travel with you or who is super accommodating. Is it a challenge? Yes. I haven’t found the right person yet, but it’s okay.”
- Oscar Pistorius Jan 2013

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/fame-isnt-that-great/

“I haven’t found the right person yet.”

Wow. Wonder how Reeva felt about that when she read that interview?!

This is the same guy who spoke of his “beloved” Reeva, the gal for whom he had no Valentine’s Day card or gift, who swore in his Bail Affidavit that “We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way.”

“Integrity”? “Trustworthy”? Did she somehow fail (or threaten to fail) to “keep his private stuff private”, i.e. call the police?

Looks like Reeva’s the one who took a huge chance with Oscar, not the other way around.

His own words reinforce the theory that his relationships were a one-way street - HIS way. Everything was always about OSCAR. He never speaks of how hard it must be to DATE a world-famous athlete or what kind of boyfriend his lifestyle made him, what he had to offer a woman.

Clear to me that the world - and everyone in it - was expected to continuously bend to OP’s vision, his every need and whim (see Reeva’s Whatsapp messages).

Sounds like a supremely selfish, supremely sh#tty boyfriend.

 

[Sherbert]

Yes… but not only learn… also challenge our knowledge, beliefs and preconceived ideas… this forum is great !

Yes, it is. And thank you, Admin, very much indeed for your hard work in providing it.

 

[Sherbert]

BIB...............you can?
Why?
There were numerous other LED lights next to that one that he chose to ignore !

Also...............why did it bother him 'THAT' night?

Sorry but for want of a better explanation about the blue LED......................what a crock of SXXx .

IMO and please don't take offence

No offence taken 44Allan!

Don't get me wrong - I don't believe OP's story for one minute - I believe that he knew it was Reeva in the bathroom and that he was shooting to kill.

However, as a bit of an insomniac myself, one thing I can relate to is contradictions: whilst the most unobtrusive of noises has the potential to disturb me, I find, for example, that I can sleep very soundly indeed to the noise of a pneumatic drill, running water, air conditioning, fans, etc.

Similarly, sometimes the slightest chink of light bothers me and at other times I can drift off with the sun full in my face.

Were I on trial for murder, I'm sure Prosecuting Counsel would have a field day: 'Sherbert, as a self-confessed light sleeper and insomniac, are you really asking Milady to believe that you were sound asleep, despite the fact that there was a pneumatic drill in operation right outside your bedroom window?

Because of these seemingly contradictory experiences, I can appreciate why one LED light in particular may have been especially irritating to OP.

So, personally, whilst I certainly don't believe that events unfolded as OP describes, I didn't feel that this was the State's strongest point.

 

[Cherwell]

“.... I don’t have to defend myself every five minutes .... "
- Oscar Pistorius Jan 2013

That situation might be changing soon. :jail:

 

[Sherbert]

this is the key bit, for the connections to stop and start suggests that the phone is being brought out of Airplane mode (or switched on) which means someone is using it and is awake.

(Snipped for brevity)

Thanks for your research, Mr Fossil. I find this topic very interesting.

 

[kittychi]

He "was creating an alibi". Are you trolling? I don't think you're being serious, but in case you are I'll humour you. The reason the help help help is so significant (and the reason so many people get annoyed when it is brought up) is because it strongly suggests that the screams heard were all OP and not Reeva. There are two competing arguments: either the screams were the sounds of a fight/Reeva's terror before she was shot, or they were OP's screams of horror after he realised he had shot her. OP screaming for help is inconsistent with the former interpretation and completely consistent with the latter. That is why they are so important. It means that the screams that are central to the State's case were not Reeva - or at least gives more than reasonable doubt.

How could it be OP's screams of horror after he realized he shot her? Those screams happened before he killed her. His "help, help, help" were not screams of horror, as Val1 reiterated above:

'In Afrikaans Dr Burger said the man "het om hulp geskree" which means the man called for help. The interpreter incorrectly uses the word "scream" so at 45:50 Dr Burger corrects the interpreter who then corrects the translation and says the man yelled for help.'

 

[soozieqtips]

“You are just never too sure in a relationship. You take a chance every time you meet someone. But you can’t be too cynical about anything in life. All you can do is hope the person you’re with has integrity. It is difficult to find the right person,
one who is trustworthy, who will keep your private stuff private.

~snipped~

BBM - Yep. He needed someone who would keep his appalling behaviour private, like the incident at Tasha's when he texted Reeva to say "Angel, please don't say a thing to any one, Darren told everyone it was his fault. I can't afford for that to come out. The guys promised not to say a thing."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cared-girlfriend-reeva-steenkamp-9212563.html

 

[Sherbert]

I went back in my notes and found the great discussion below speculating on OP’s Feb 13 meeting.

If, indeed, this was the meeting OP attended that day, if he was drinking at the realtors’ party (and more at home?)*, if he was in a dark and foul mood when he came home - perhaps it was some “last straw” that escalated, that set off the perfect storm that night and he took it out on Reeva.

Total control freak OP couldn’t “get to” Cassidy Taylor-Memmory - he had zero control over her and the looming lawsuit, which would threaten his image and lucrative “brand” ... essentially his entire life** - so Reeva was the closest scapegoat.

Even knowing what little I do about Reeva (look at her warm, loving, supportive messages to OP that day), I simply cannot imagine what she could have done or said that was worthy of death (nothing). No, I think this rage was long-brewing in OP (from his history, doesn’t seem to take much to tick him off) - it had nothing to do specifically with Reeva.

* By the time OP actually got to the police station and hospital for blood tests, most if not all the alcohol would have been gone from his system.

** So what does OP do? He murders Reeva, thereby destroying his image and lucrative brand! It’s clear to me that entitled, out-of-control OP was a time-bomb ... poor Reeva just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong guy.

Hi Lux! Yes, I think he probably was in a foul mood that evening. Poor Reeva.

And I also suspect that he was a gun addict, always itching to pull that trigger. I thought the zombie stopper comment was distasteful and quite revealing, so I did some googling and, surprisingly, there's very little information out there; I couldn't find it in a bona fide dictionary, but I think there may be a condition called 'hoplophilia' which seems to signify an excessive attachment to firearms. There are also hoplites and hoplophiliacs - the latter being people who become sexually aroused by the use of guns. Who knew?

Whatever the case may be, his relationship with guns clearly went beyond the need for protection.

 

[kittychi]

I went back in my notes and found the great discussion below speculating on OP’s Feb 13 meeting.

If, indeed, this was the meeting OP attended that day, if he was drinking at the realtors’ party (and more at home?)*, if he was in a dark and foul mood when he came home - perhaps it was some “last straw” that escalated, that set off the perfect storm that night and he took it out on Reeva.

Total control freak OP couldn’t “get to” Cassidy Taylor-Memmory - he had zero control over her and the looming lawsuit, which would threaten his image and lucrative “brand” ... essentially his entire life** - so Reeva was the closest scapegoat.

Even knowing what little I do about Reeva (look at her warm, loving, supportive messages to OP that day), I simply cannot imagine what she could have done or said that was worthy of death (nothing). No, I think this rage was long-brewing in OP (from his history, doesn’t seem to take much to tick him off) - it had nothing to do specifically with Reeva.

* By the time OP actually got to the police station and hospital for blood tests, most if not all the alcohol would have been gone from his system.

** So what does OP do? He murders Reeva, thereby destroying his image and lucrative brand! It’s clear to me that entitled, out-of-control OP was a time-bomb ... poor Reeva just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong guy.

Hi Lux,

I do believe the evening was heavily alcohol-fueled and I have since Day 1. Especially after I read about several of OP's partying episodes. Every time Oscar has had any kind of drama in his life it can be traced back to his alcohol consumption. And these are just the ones that have been made public. (One has to wonder how much has been covered up for him by friends!)

I think he very well could have been drinking all day and, as you say, there is nothing bad enough that Reeva could have done or said to get him that angry. Whatever was brewing with him got magnified, he got totally irrational and it climaxed into Reeva's murder. Domestic "drunk shooting" is not unheard of when there are unlocked guns available.

 

[kittychi]

Here's something to lighten the mood

View attachment 57287

:silly: Now that was a useful post! :floorlaugh:

 

[OneBlessedMommy]

I'm sorry but I have to drop my two cents. I have been on the receiving end of dv, and I assure you that is absolutely plausible that OP was mocking her screams for help. IMO

Love Kills

 

[Lux et Veritas]

[Dr. Wayne Derman] also testified that Pistorius had an “exaggerated response” to fireworks at opening ceremonies, and that “he covers his head and ears and cowers until the noise stops”.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/expert-paints-oscar-pistorius-terrifying-world/

Of all the many global opening ceremonies OP has attended, surely there must be a video somewhere of him cowering in terror, at the total mercy of pretty, threatening fireworks*? Come on, Internet, give it up!!! :lol:

The poor dear, how the f##k did he ever party at the shooting range with his buddies, with multiple shooters all firing at once, all those Zombie Stoppers whizzing all around? He must have been cowering in pure terror! Surely there’s a video somewhere ... oh, wait - there is.


* But at NO time during these terrifying fireworks did OP ever consider wearing ear plugs and ear protection - you know, like he wears at the shooting range.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

“He fired at the sound and I’m sure that was to nullify any threat.”
- Dr. Wayne Derman

Like Oscar, Defense coached Derman well - he won’t even say “KILL” or “REEVA”.

Notice he said “any” threat (potential) ... not THE threat (actual).

We all freakin know there was never even a hint of a threat.

Don’t need a Ph.D and 50 page CV to know a “sound” is not an “attack”.

 

[Greater Than]

If you find the logic irrational and bizarre that is exactly my point: this is the logic you are using to attack OP. People are using inconsistencies and differences between OP's evidence and his bail affidavit etc to say he is lying. I'm making the point that slight differences in the evidence, even multiple slight differences, are commonplace in trials. But yes, as you say, hopefully someone else will address what I say.

How about his lie about the magazine rack? OP repeatedly stated under oath that it was NOT where it is shown in the crime scene photos, yet not only did the state's ballistics expert prove it was, but the DT's own expert did as well. He's a proven liar by his own defense expert.

Or how about his lie about the Tasha's incident? He pleaded not guilty, repeatedly stated under oath that he didn't even have his finger in the trigger, much less fire the gun, but then admitted guilt via Roux on the day of the defense's closing argument. He's a proven liar by his own admission.

<modsnip>

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here's something to lighten the mood

View attachment 57287

Cherwell, that's great, but do you have a picture of his product for an athlete's foot in mouth disease. :floorlaugh:

 

[JudgeJudi]

I've started listening to Nel's cross-examination again. It's just breathtaking to listen to the number of lies coming out one after another right from the word go. When you hear the story the first time around, all you're concentrating on is listening to it. The second or third time around you the pick the lies instantly. Originally I was going to compose a list but it would be too long so I've scrapped that idea. My all time favourite though is still "I'll try not to lie". I mean seriously, who'd say that? I've never heard a defendant use those words in my entire life. I sincerely hope Masipa and her assessors made a note of that amazing statement. I'm only sorry Nel didn't run that by him towards the end and then give a brief ... but I guess brief would have been impossible ... list of some of them. I absolutely can't wait to see the look on his and the family's faces when that verdict gets handed down.