Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 3)

[chicoliving]

Police say they are suspending their investigation into the Christmas Day tiger attack at San Francisco Zoo that left a teenager dead.

The San Francisco Police Department released a statement Tuesday saying the investigation has been put on hold "pending new witnesses being interviewed and/or new evidence being produced."

http://cbs13.com/national/tiger.investigation.san.2.640995.html

 

[philamena]

I've been scouring news articles and haven't found one mentioning that the blood on the sign has been identified as human......!

kgeaux,
You must work for the zoo to defend them so.

FWIW- it may take some time to do the research but I too remember reading about the blood within the tigers home.

 

[txsvicki]

After seeing the linked pic of the moat and wall, I think a tiger could jump from that large rock up to the edge of the wall. It doesn't look all that far and the rock sticks up some higher than the bottom of the moat. Also, it doesn't look very safe to me for the zoo to be having those bushes hanging a couple of feet over the edge of the wall. Seems like a tiger could possible jump up and catch their claws on the bushes and pull itself on up with the back feet.

 

[mister happy]

Good morning, mister Happy! The search warrents mentioned mutiple items the police were NOT sure about.....remember, they mentioned the steel washer and wanted to search the car to see if they could match the washer to anything in the car; the documents mentioned the cell phones as possible evidence. Since all other "possible evidence" was mentioned, I am still wondering why they wouldn't mention the sign.

Regarding the misinformation/misspeaking that has gone on: I expect ALL lawyers to carefully couch their words to the benefit of their clients. I expect ALL small time hoods to deny ALL suspicious behavior. I had expected the zoo director and spokesman to carefully choose their words since it would be foolish to do otherwise. But they have gone furthur than that. If the wall was a mistake, and it could have been, the "shoe in the moat" was not.

Hello Kgeaux. Could the police have other items that wern't mentioned in the avidavant? It's hard to speculate as to why something was not included. Maybe the blood had already been tested and a match wasn't found, or for some reason it wasn't possible run tests, or...

Hopefully we will find out.

As far as the communication miscues and whatnot, this seems to happen in every sensational media event. Initial facts and info can get skewed. Did the shoe story actually come from zoo officials, or was it some other source?

I know the zoo is going to cut some checks, but I can understand the emotion against the brothers. The fact that Paul shifted his story only adds to the suspicion.

 

[kgeaux]

Police say they are suspending their investigation into the Christmas Day tiger attack at San Francisco Zoo that left a teenager dead.

The San Francisco Police Department released a statement Tuesday saying the investigation has been put on hold "pending new witnesses being interviewed and/or new evidence being produced."

http://cbs13.com/national/tiger.investigation.san.2.640995.html

I don't predict any new witnesses or new evidece being produced.

kgeaux,
You must work for the zoo to defend them so.

FWIW- it may take some time to do the research but I too remember reading about the blood within the tigers home.

The thought of me working for the zoo is too funny! They'd have sacked my skinny butt long ago! It appears the PR guy hired by the zoo believes there was blood on the sign.....police haven't made any statement about the sign that I can find, and today they are announcing they are closing the investigation. I wouldn't be surprised if there WAS blood on the sign, and if it belonged to one or more of the victims. The picture of the sign by the wrought iron fence makes it perfectly clear, IMO, that no one had to be inside the enclosure for blood to splatter onto the sign. IF one of the boys had been attacked inside of the enclosure, we wouldn't be talking about some splatter on a sign, there would have been pools of blood. It seems to me that the statement (the last one) from the older brother is accurate: the tiger first attacked OUTSIDE of her enclosure.

After seeing the linked pic of the moat and wall, I think a tiger could jump from that large rock up to the edge of the wall. It doesn't look all that far and the rock sticks up some higher than the bottom of the moat. Also, it doesn't look very safe to me for the zoo to be having those bushes hanging a couple of feet over the edge of the wall. Seems like a tiger could possible jump up and catch their claws on the bushes and pull itself on up with the back feet.

Oh, yeah, that picture is worth a thousand words. It is obvious to me that the tiger could easily have jumped up and grabbed onto an overhanging bush and clawed her way up. In fact, I am literally shocked that Tatiana was the FIRST tiger to jump out of that enclosure!

Hello Kgeaux. Could the police have other items that wern't mentioned in the avidavant? It's hard to speculate as to why something was not included. Maybe the blood had already been tested and a match wasn't found, or for some reason it wasn't possible run tests, or...

Hopefully we will find out.

As far as the communication miscues and whatnot, this seems to happen in every sensational media event. Initial facts and info can get skewed. Did the shoe story actually come from zoo officials, or was it some other source?

I know the zoo is going to cut some checks, but I can understand the emotion against the brothers. The fact that Paul shifted his story only adds to the suspicion.

My own personal opinion is the police officers picked up the sign because the zoo made them aware that blood was on the sign. I think it's reasonable to assume that the blood belonged to one or more of the victims, but I believe the police came to the same conclusion I did: it's not of any evidenciary value, simply because of the location of the sign and the types of injuries the victims sustained.

 

[kgeaux]

kgeaux, thanks for finding the pictures. Looking at the one with the ladder in it- it looks as though the moat is not even close to 33 feet wide (assuming that the grassy area was where the tigers would hang out). And the other graphic ("Tiger Grotto") showing 12.4 feet and 33 feet and 56 feet also look like the 33 feet estimate is not correct. As I continue to look at the graphic, it seems as though the back wall of the moat was about 10 feet high, and the moat itself was about 25 or so. I don't believe it was 33 feet wide. I think they are adding the height of the moat to the width of the bottom of the moat and coming up with 33 feet.

Does anyone know of any other pictures which might shed more light on this?

Incidentally, I have come across some information that Bengal tigers can jump 10 meters (33 feet approx), but have not found the information for the Siberian tiger.

ETA: Here's something from Wiki news- interesting, even considering the source:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tiger_t...an_Francisco_Zoo_may_have_'climbed'_over_wall

The tigers at the zoo are held captive by the combination of a 20ft (6m) tall wall and a 15ft (4.5m) wide moat. Zoo officials say that there are no cameras around the enclosure, and the incident was not caught on any security cameras.

I think you've really hit on something, morag. The "combination" measurement you mention as a possibility seems to be a PROBABILITY to me. Looking at the men, the ladder, the overhanging bushes, it is no surprise to me that Tatiana got out. No surprise at all!

I finally TRULY understand why LinasK walked past the tiger exhibit without lingering! I would not have been comfortable with that enclosure either.

 

[LinasK]

I think you've really hit on something, morag. The "combination" measurement you mention as a possibility seems to be a PROBABILITY to me. Looking at the men, the ladder, the overhanging bushes, it is no surprise to me that Tatiana got out. No surprise at all!

I finally TRULY understand why LinasK walked past the tiger exhibit without lingering! I would not have been comfortable with that enclosure either.

One thing we definitely agree on Kgeaux, is that this zoo should have renovated these enclosures years ago. Not enough money is no excuse, then you fundraise. These enclosures were built in the 1940's and weren't high enough then- wild animals haven't changed. They are also not very naturalistic, the moat didn't even have water- tigers like to swim in water. Molinado also should have known the proper fence heights or reported them correctly, and for that alone he needs to be replaced!

 

[Morag]

I think you've really hit on something, morag. The "combination" measurement you mention as a possibility seems to be a PROBABILITY to me. Looking at the men, the ladder, the overhanging bushes, it is no surprise to me that Tatiana got out. No surprise at all!

I finally TRULY understand why LinasK walked past the tiger exhibit without lingering! I would not have been comfortable with that enclosure either.

kgeaux (by the way, I grew up listening to KJOE in Shreveport- do you pronounce your name that way?)- I found about a dozen quotes from zoo officials saying that the moat was 20 feet wide, before they said it was 33 feet- I've been trying to do a little geometry problem to determine what the heights and widths actually were...

 

[kgeaux]

kgeaux (by the way, I grew up listening to KJOE in Shreveport- do you pronounce your name that way?)- I found about a dozen quotes from zoo officials saying that the moat was 20 feet wide, before they said it was 33 feet- I've been trying to do a little geometry problem to determine what the heights and widths actually were...

My geometry is horrible, so I hope you have better luck than me!

"eaux" is pronounced like the long O sound, so I am K"go".....it's a play on my hubby's French last name, with the "x" thrown to honor my Cajun roots.

 

[LinasK]

My geometry is horrible, so I hope you have better luck than me!

"eaux" is pronounced like the long O sound, so I am K"go".....it's a play on my hubby's French last name, with the "x" thrown to honor my Cajun roots.

we have a radio station here KGO, so that's how I was pronouncing it.

 

[mister happy]

kgeaux (by the way, I grew up listening to KJOE in Shreveport- do you pronounce your name that way?)- I found about a dozen quotes from zoo officials saying that the moat was 20 feet wide, before they said it was 33 feet- I've been trying to do a little geometry problem to determine what the heights and widths actually were...

I've looked at the graphic and saw that the back wall of the moat is sloped, so that confuses the situation. I wonder if there is a standard way of measuring these moats. I've looked at the photo too, but it can be hard to judge distances in a photo.

 

[mister happy]

Hey all, I've been thinking (that can be dangerous for me!). Did the police determine the direction of Paul's shoeprint on the railing? When Paul changed his story, it's odd that he said they were all standing on the fence railing. I think it would be very awkward for these guys to stand on a narrow rail while waving and hooting, especially with weed and booze in the mix. Also, why weren't other shoeprints found? It may be hard to prove, but the alleged blood on the sign and shrubs could still indicate that part of the attack occurred within the railing. A zoo official claimed there was a large amount of blood by the sign. I still suspect one or more of the trio went into the restricted area. Do you think the brothers will blab about "something" after the settlement? That would be interesting.

 

[kgeaux]

Hey all, I've been thinking (that can be dangerous for me!). Did the police determine the direction of Paul's shoeprint on the railing? When Paul changed his story, it's odd that he said they were all standing on the fence railing. I think it would be very awkward for these guys to stand on a narrow rail while waving and hooting, especially with weed and booze in the mix. Also, why weren't other shoeprints found? It may be hard to prove, but the alleged blood on the sign and shrubs could still indicate that part of the attack occurred within the railing. A zoo official claimed there was a large amount of blood by the sign. I still suspect one or more of the trio went into the restricted area. Do you think the brothers will blab about "something" after the settlement? That would be interesting.

It would be absolutely wonderful if they'd blab. I'd love to know what really happened. But these two are so street smart it's scary. To be mauled by a tiger and have the presence of mind to deliberately withhold information from the emergency room workers!----these are two very "in control" young men. I will be very surprised if they reveal anything other than what has already been said.

The shoe print was a partial shoe print on the top railing of the fence.....I used to "tight rope" walk on a wrought iron fence railing when I was a youngster, so it can be done, BUT Paul was mighty drunk. I can't imagine his balance would have been good.

 

[mister happy]

It would be absolutely wonderful if they'd blab. I'd love to know what really happened. But these two are so street smart it's scary. To be mauled by a tiger and have the presence of mind to deliberately withhold information from the emergency room workers!----these are two very "in control" young men. I will be very surprised if they reveal anything other than what has already been said.

The shoe print was a partial shoe print on the top railing of the fence.....I used to "tight rope" walk on a wrought iron fence railing when I was a youngster, so it can be done, BUT Paul was mighty drunk. I can't imagine his balance would have been good.

You hear about young dudes at parties bragging about their dirty deeds. Then they boast to the wrong people, then the story get out, and so on. I'm not sure how savvy these characters are, anyway. They have a history of doing stupid stuff, to put it mildly.

IMO, the rail standing story seems contrived. I'm curious about which way the footprint was facing. Maybe the direction couldn't be determined since it was only a partial print. There are lots of questions in my mind.

 

[Tallytowngirl]

zoo experts say SF zoo could be endangering their animals

no surprise there.

Also, in "news of the weird" (or "new of the not so funny")
Physicist calculates tiger trajectory

 

[mister happy]

Ain't too much happening with this case, but...

The police officers who shot the tiger have been recommended for medals:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...6/BAGC2UT1CF.DTL&hw=tiger+medal&sn=002&sc=947

The SF Zoo raises the height of its exhibit walls:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/07/BAFCUTNI7.DTL


Lawsuits still have not been filed. Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[LinasK]

Ain't too much happening with this case, but...

The police who shot the tiger have been recommended medals:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...6/BAGC2UT1CF.DTL&hw=tiger+medal&sn=002&sc=947

SF Zoo raises the height of its exhibit walls:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/07/BAFCUTNI7.DTL


Lawsuits still have not been filed. Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Daughter has a chance to go in May with Brownies. Not sure I feel safe there yet...

 

[mister happy]

Daughter has a chance to go in May with Brownies. Not sure I feel safe there yet...

Just a guess, but I think the zoo is safer now than its ever been. They will probably put armies of guards by the exhibits... lol.

 

[Taximom]

Tiger exhibit reopens:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331770,00.html
But the big cat grotto now has higher walls and glass barriers with electrified wires that are supposed to prevent another animal escape. (more at link)
Plus surveillance cameras and warning signs....

 

[jilly]

Tiger exhibit reopens:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331770,00.html
But the big cat grotto now has higher walls and glass barriers with electrified wires that are supposed to prevent another animal escape. (more at link)
Plus surveillance cameras and warning signs....

Thanks for the update Taxi.
I'm happy for the tigers to get all this.