Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo

[JBean]

I see they are interviewing Anne Hjelle. She was attacked here at my mountain bike riding area a few years ago. Another biker was killed before the lion attacked Anne. She is a very courageous woman as is her friend Debbie Nichols. Anne and her friend are my heros.

Anne's story:

About 4:15 p.m. Anne Hjelle, 30, of Santa Ana, California, a former Tustin Marine who works as a fitness instructor, was jumped by the same mountain lion! Hjelle was attacked a short distance down the trail from Reynold's body, which was not visible to her, while she was riding her mountain bicycle. The lion quickly had the left side of Hjelle's face in its mouth, despite the presence of Anne's helmet. The animal kept moving its grip from Hjelle's face to her helmet and then her neck, said her riding companion, 47-year-old Deborah Nichols/Nicholls. Nichols credits the helmet for helping to save her friend's life, but Nichols heroism in grabbing and holding onto her friend was certainly a crucial factor.
Hjelle reports, "My first words were 'Jesus, help me,'" As both women were dragged deeper into the brush, Hjelle began to think that the battle was almost over. Once he started clamping down, Hjelle remembered thinking, "This is it. I'm going to die." She says she didn't feel pain at the time. She felt just the strength of the cougar (by her description, equal to 10 men). When the cougar tore away at the flesh on her face and neck, ripping her left ear from her skull and folding the left side of her cheek over her broken nose, Anne recalls briefly thinking "I want to die."

Nichols was about 30 feet behind Hjelle and witnessed the attack. She jumped from her bike, and threw it at the lion. Then becomming bloody and breathless, she literally wrestled it to save Hjelle, kicking its flanks and screaming at it. She chased after the cat as it dragged Hjelle into the ravine. She just kept screaming and finally caught up with it. She grabbed Anne's left leg, vowing, "I'm not going to let you die," as the lion dragged both of them 30 feet down the slope into the brush.
http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/attacks3.htm#Hjelle

 

[hockeymom]

I saw the tiger keeper at the Las Vegas zoo on TV last night. He said tigers are fantastic swimmers(if the moat had been filled with water) and said if po'd enough a tiger could most certainly jump a 20 ft wall. He equated it with a human who is able to perform super human feats under stress,I guess like an adreneline rush.
I did hear just now that the zoo enclosure was 4ft too short.I hope this wakes up some other zoos,who are probably below standards.
Sounds like this is a combination of negligence by the zoo,people taunting the tiger,and a tiger who just couldn't take it anymore.Not one single thing to blame,but several.

 

[Dobler]

I was listening to CNN news and they stated that the fence was 12 1/2 ft. high. They also found rocks & pinecones in the grotto, suggesting that someone threw them possibly at the tiger.

 

[Nova]

They just said it doesn't have water in it.

Then it's more a ditch than a moat, isn't it?

 

[reb]

i really don't understand why zoos don't hire security guards to stand at EVERY single exhibit to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE the animals aren't being taunted and to keep the people QUIET!!! this burns me up and it amounts to psychological torture. the last zoo i saw was the one in dallas and it make me sick and depressed. i wanted to maul all those screaming children (and the idiotic adults who couldn't control them) myself.

 

[LionRun]

An empty moat is a ditch, pretty much. And, I also heard that the wall was 12 1/2 feet, not 20 feet high. From above to many of us it may seem like 20 feet because 12 1/2 feet is a significant height. I can imagine a tiger jumping or scaling a 12 1/2 foot wall. Tatiana was a trim female, smaller than the males. In that case her lighter weight would have given her the advantage over a heavier male, and I think she could have escaped that enclosure had she had the drive to attempt it. I'll wait to see if the 12 1/2 foot height description sticks. If so, this may have been a factor in the tiger's escape.

Tigers love water, and they are good swimmers. But had the moat been filled it would have made it more difficult for Tatiana to have jumped even 12 1/2 feet high. It takes more power to spring from within a pool of water than to spring from level ground.

Still, it is possible that one or more of the young men went too close to the tiger (we may eventually learn more about the footprint and any other evidence found or that may be found). And, it is possible that one or more of those young men taunted the tiger.

I don't believe they deserved to be killed or mauled for their actions if they taunted her. But, sometimes the consequences are huge and irreversible for mistakes that we make. If taunting was also a factor in this tragedy, then all we can do is learn from our mistakes.

About her picture that is posted here--I see a resting tiger who looks calm and relaxed. I do not see a grumpy tiger, although Tatiana may (or may not) have been a little more aggressive and/or easily irritated or frustrated than the average tiger. From that pic where she seems content I don't see how we could possibly predict that she would be aggressive or even grumpy.

Lion

 

[southcitymom]

i really don't understand why zoos don't hire security guards to stand at EVERY single exhibit to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE the animals aren't being taunted and to keep the people QUIET!!! this burns me up and it amounts to psychological torture. the last zoo i saw was the one in dallas and it make me sick and depressed. i wanted to maul all those screaming children (and the idiotic adults who couldn't control them) myself.

I hear you, reb. I haven't been to many zoos - mainly just the one here in Atlanta. The animals there seem very happy and I've never witnessed any kids or adults harrassing them. Now - I have witnessed plenty of screaming kids, but I accepted long ago that large outdoor places seem to bring that out in children!

 

[Texana]

Precisely - or what if the taunter (and again - I've seen nothing to lead me to conclude that taunting was at play here, but I'm open-minded) had been a 4 or 5 year old boy? Immaturity should not be "paid" for in such a brutal manner. The zoo owes a duty of protection to all its patrons.

Agreed, after all, the boys were doing what boys will do--no matter what the age--and the tiger was doing what it is supposed to do--so the intervention has to come from a design that is safe for all.

 

[southcitymom]

Where does the "taunting" theory come in? Did someone witness them taunting the tiger or is this just one of the theories and speculations out there while authorities are trying to piece together what happened?

I mean this tiger had already attacked and maimed a human being who was helping it and had only it's best interest in mind. With that type of history, I'm more apt to give the human that was killed the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JBean]

Where does the "taunting" theory come in? Did someone witness them taunting the tiger or is this just one of the theories and speculations out there while authorities are trying to piece together what happened?

I mean this tiger had already attacked and maimed a human being who was helping it and had only it's best interest in mind. With that type of history, I'm more apt to give the human that was killed the benefit of the doubt.

Parents are denying it.
I think authorities are basing it on the shoe, the footprint and the pinecones at this point. It is only a theory that is being investigated.

It would be in the zoo's best interest to get this rumor out there. It would be in the boys best interest to squash it.
Who knows?

According to the Chronicle, SFPD are looking into whether or not one of the victims of SF Zoo tiger attacks "climbed over a waist-high fence and then dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of a moat that kept the big cat away from the public." With evidence of a shoe and some blood found in the area between the gate and the edge of the 25- to 30-foot-wide moat, as well as "pinecones and sticks that were found in the moat might have been thrown at the animal," zoo officials argue that Tatiana could have been provoked. Which? If that's the case, wasn't all too bright.
http://sfist.com/2007/12/27/tiger_taunting.php

 

[JBean]

Grieving father denies son taunted killer tiger


The grieving father of the teenager killed by an escaped tiger at San Francisco zoo yesterday rejected speculation that his son may have provoked the attack by dangling a leg over the moat.
"I don't think my son would do something like taunt animals," Carlos Sousa Sr told ABC's "Good Morning America." "It's unbelievable."
Carlos Sousa Jr, 17, was killed by the rare Siberian tigress, named Tatiana, in a Christmas Day rampage that also left two friends, brothers aged 19 and 23, with serious wounds.
Mr Sousa Sr later told the San Jose Mercury News that one of his son's friends might have provoked the animal. "It could have been one of the other kids. And my kid could have just gotten it the worst," he said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3101164.ece

snip
Officials speculate that one of the victims may have dangled a leg or another body part over the enclosure's 14'-deep moat and that Tatiana seized it and climbed out.
Police sources told the San Francisco Chronicle that a search found "a shoe and blood in an area between the gate and the edge of the ... moat."
Other evidence found at the scene included a footprint on a metal fence, indicating that someone had climbed it to get closer to the big cats.
Pinecones and sticks were also found in the moat, where they would not have normally landed, suggesting they may have been thrown at the animal.
"Somebody created a situation that really agitated her and gave her some sort of a method to break out," Manuel Mollinedo, the zoo's director, told the newspaper. "There is no possible way the cat could have made it out of there in a single leap. I would surmise that there was help

 

[Buzz Mills]

Parents are denying it.
I think authorities are basing it on the shoe, the footprint and the pinecones at this point. It is only a theory that is being investigated.

It would be in the zoo's best interest to get this rumor out there. It would be in the boys best interest to squash it.
Who knows?

According to the Chronicle, SFPD are looking into whether or not one of the victims of SF Zoo tiger attacks "climbed over a waist-high fence and then dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of a moat that kept the big cat away from the public." With evidence of a shoe and some blood found in the area between the gate and the edge of the 25- to 30-foot-wide moat, as well as "pinecones and sticks that were found in the moat might have been thrown at the animal," zoo officials argue that Tatiana could have been provoked. Which? If that's the case, wasn't all too bright.
http://sfist.com/2007/12/27/tiger_taunting.php

They are checking the three victim's shoes against the footprint on the rail. I'm hoping the brothers will come clean. The time of the day, the fact that the tiger focused on the three, the foreign objects in the enclosure, all point toward the boys, at least one of them, taunting the tiger.

Reminds me of when I was hiking a few years ago, and a large bobcat came up on the dirt road, about 35 yards in front of me. It walked across the narrow road, looked up at the steep bank in front of it, and leaped vertically over 10 feet to the top of the bank, and made it look easy. Cats have tremendous power in their hindquarters.

 

[LionRun]

Where does the "taunting" theory come in? Did someone witness them taunting the tiger or is this just one of the theories and speculations out there while authorities are trying to piece together what happened?

I mean this tiger had already attacked and maimed a human being who was helping it and had only it's best interest in mind. With that type of history, I'm more apt to give the human that was killed the benefit of the doubt.

I heard on Fox News that a witness questioned by police shortly after the attacks stated that one of the three young men was taunting the tiger. Again, if the story sticks and seems reasonable only then I might consider it a possible fact.

Sadly, sometimes tragic incidences are gateways to change. The enclosure did not hold the tiger in for whatever reason, so things need to change.

Lion

 

[dark_shadows]

I hear you, reb. I haven't been to many zoos - mainly just the one here in Atlanta. The animals there seem very happy and I've never witnessed any kids or adults harrassing them. Now - I have witnessed plenty of screaming kids, but I accepted long ago that large outdoor places seem to bring that out in children!

My very dearest Southcitymom,:blowkiss:
Hello my friend!
On post #53 of this thread, I posted a link stating that there is a witness to taunting. It is on the 3rd paragraph of the story.
If the witness did observe that then why did they not alert zoo officials? If the person witnessed that and did not alert anyone, they could have prevented the situation by seeking out a zoo employee for assistance. Just my opinion though if what the witness says is fact.


Here is the link on that post;
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318365,00.html


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[southcitymom]

My very dearest Southcitymom,:blowkiss:
Hello my friend!
On post #53 of this thread, I posted a link stating that there is a witness to taunting. It is on the 3rd paragraph of the story.
If the witness did observe that then why did they not alert zoo officials? If the person witnessed that and did not alert anyone, they could have prevented the situation by seeking out a zoo employee for assistance. Just my opinion though if what the witness says is fact.


Here is the link on that post;
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318365,00.html


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

Thank you very much dark_shadows and everyone else who directed me to that information. I surely would have thought that someone who witnessed such a thing would have alerted the zoo. What a tragic story all the way around.

 

[JBean]

They are checking the three victim's shoes against the footprint on the rail. I'm hoping the brothers will come clean. The time of the day, the fact that the tiger focused on the three, the foreign objects in the enclosure, all point toward the boys, at least one of them, taunting the tiger.

Reminds me of when I was hiking a few years ago, and a large bobcat came up on the dirt road, about 35 yards in front of me. It walked across the narrow road, looked up at the steep bank in front of it, and leaped vertically over 10 feet to the top of the bank, and made it look easy. Cats have tremendous power in their hindquarters.

There's a bobcat that frequents my biking hills. He scares the carp out of me. I am counting heavily on adrenalin. Mine I mean.

 

[Buzz Mills]

There's a bobcat that frequents my biking hills. He scares the carp out of me. I am counting heavily on adrenalin. Mine I mean.

Not to worry about bobcats, just their larger cousins. There have been a few coyote attacks around here. They have gotten too used to people and have lost their normal fear.

 

[dark_shadows]

I heard on Fox News that a witness questioned by police shortly after the attacks stated that one of the three young men was taunting the tiger. Again, if the story sticks and seems reasonable only then I might consider it a possible fact.

Sadly, sometimes tragic incidences are gateways to change. The enclosure did not hold the tiger in for whatever reason, so things need to change.

Lion

My very sweet lionRun,:blowkiss:
I just saw that we posted at the same time!
It is nice that you think the same as I about seeing if the story sticks and concidering it a fact. Until it is provento be a fact, I do not see where the pfoof is that the boys taunted the tiger. As far as finding the shoe where they found it, the attack was brutal and the shoe could have fallen there during the stuggle. Wasn't his body lying close to where the shoe was found?


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[LionRun]

There's a bobcat that frequents my biking hills. He scares the carp out of me. I am counting heavily on adrenalin. Mine I mean.

Hi there jelly beanya. No worries about a bobcat. We are just too big to be prey for them, and one might attack in an effort to defend itself if it were totally backed into a corner.

Lion

 

[panthera]

Then it's more a ditch than a moat, isn't it?

Yes, like a big concrete ditch. I've been trying to read up as much as I can on this since hearing so much about it on the news but I haven't heard or read if the tiger had ever gotten out of her area before?