Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo

[Amraann]

I just want to clearify that I never said they deserved what they got..
I said IF they were taunting the tiger then they as well as the zoo hold some responsibility for what happened.

It appalls and disgusts me when I see people taunting caged animals.
Most often it is adults.

 

[southcitymom]

I can't believe the zoo's errors in handling this situation from what I just read on Linask's link.

Why would you not believe someone BLEEDING, and probably frightened out of their mind, that an animal was loose?

Maybe they should put chips (gps?) in the animals so they could locate any that got loose more quickly.

This is just a tragedy all the way around.

I think I can imagine a zoo employee feeling an initial "Oh no - that's just not possible" when confronted with news that a Tiger is loose. It would be a surreal moment to be sure. I can't really hold that against the zoo.

I would like to know what the zoo protocol is for a potential escaped animal and if that protocol was followed.

The chips idea is a good one.

It does seem from the articles I have read that the confusion regarding the tiger and whether or not it was reallu out attacking folks did not contribute to Souza's death - he was killed early on, it seems. But the confusion may have contributed to one of the brothers being attacked by the cat again - as police looked on.

 

[cinsbythesea]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/29/MNDVU65TO.DTL&tsp=1

Here's the latest article from the SF Chron - certainly sounds like it was a series of blunders...

 

[FlowerChild]

I think he was covering his butt, however the true measurements were going to come out. (This is an 80 year old zoo- with a 40 year old fence. I've been there and seen it personally and I never felt safe in front of that exhibit- The fence is only 31/2 feet high in front of the sidewalk where the visitors stand! and there is no water in the moat) He knew this tiger had gone after the keeper's arm a year ago and didn't take sufficient precautions. Also, if his staff had been prepared, the tiger would have been tranquilized by them before the police shot it, and then the decision could be made to euthanize it or move it to a wildlife refuge.

Water wouldn't have helped...Tigers are very GOOD swimmers and LOVE the water. And the 3.5 tall fence can't be much taller without ruining the view of the Tigers...it isn't a "catch fence" anyway - it's supposed to keep the visitors OUT of the "zone" where the animals can see them clearly and view small children (who run like wounded prey) out of their sight lines.

EVERY ANIMAL at a zoo is potentially deadly - the cutest monkeys and apes can kill you just as fast as a Tiger - and are a LOT smarter and harder to keep separated from the public. IMHO that Tiger didn't just attack for no reason..the boys had likely been taunting her and teasing her and agitating her...I cannot see any other scenario. 17-19 year old boys don't go to the Zoo without their families on Christmas Day to feed peanuts to the squirrels. I wish every Zoo had cameras on every exhibit - then we wouldn't be asking the questions we are now - we'd KNOW what caused this and how the Tiger got out.

At any rate, the innocent animal has already paid the price for BEING A TIGER and doing what comes naturally - I am sure the survivors have been well coached by their new LAWYER (who probably arrived within the hour) to NEVER tell what really happened and they won't - unless there is concrete EVIDENCE or witness testimony of wrongdoing on their part. Unless there was an un-involved witness who comes forward, we will NEVER KNOW with 100% certainty what really happened.

As it stands now, the 2 boys who survived will probably never have to work again and the boy who was killed, his family will benefit to the tune of millions in a "wrongful death" lawsuit. The Zoo will build a taller and more expensive wall and people will still come and play "Tarzan" and try to incite the animals into being...well...wild animals. Human (or animal) behavior never changes....

My Opinion

 

[Pharlap]

Third guy is 23 years old, one of the 2 that lived, I believe.

 

[colomom]

Colomom, I respectfully disagree here.

I have read this entire thread and also all of the news reports concerning this tragedy. I disagree that this tigress "attacked her keeper" and then "methodically ate her arm".

This keeper was feeding her, dropped a chunk of meat - which Tatiana was trying to retrieve herself. Why the keeper, who should have known better, would reach into her enclosure to retrieve the meat is beyond me. She may have thought she was "helping" but the first rule she should have learned when feeding wild animals is to NEVER, EVER get between them and their food.

This keeper most assuredly incited a very normal reaction from T. She did not see this woman as her keeper or friend, she saw her, at this moment, as competition for her food.

T did not "methodically" eat her arm, she merely reacted to someone, a predator, trying to "steal" her dinner.

I do not see this as an "attack" at all. This was a reaction to the action.

Fermi,

From my original post:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1875058&postcount=132

I was simply quoting what was in this article (am I only allowed to post what I know to be fact?):

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/01/01/MNG3CNB93Q1.DTL

"That's how Vikram Chari described the horrifying spectacle that he and his 6-year-old son witnessed at the San Francisco Zoo on the Friday before Christmas, when a Siberian tiger named Tatiana attacked her keeper."

"He said three men tried to yank Komejan, a gifted artist, from Tatiana's grasp. The tiger pulled back, methodically devouring the arm. Finally, a zoo employee grabbed a long pole and jabbed it at Tatiana's head. The tiger let go."

My original post was in response to Littledeer's post:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1877300&postcount=241

"I am sure, that to the Zoo employees that she was considered "tame"."

Nova was correct with the reference to the "tame" comment. It came from Littledeer's post, not yours.

IMO, after that incident with her keeper a year ago, it might have been a good idea to insure that Tatiana was in a very secure environment. Perhaps transferred to a more modern zoo? It seems to me that throughout this story there is a lack of understanding and caution when dealing with a wild animal that had "bitten" a human being in the past.

 

[Pharlap]

colomom

vbmenu_register("postmenu_1878663", true);
Registered User

"I am sure, that to the Zoo employees that she was considered "tame"."



The first thing employees learn in training to work at a zoo(while feeding and or working around them) is they are all WILD and can turn on a dime, period.:twocents:

 

[colomom]

"I am sure, that to the Zoo employees that she was considered "tame"."



The first thing employees learn in training to work at a zoo(while feeding and or working around them) is they are all WILD and can turn on a dime, period.:twocents:

Exactly right Pharlap, it is when people get complacent that accidents happen.

 

[Pharlap]

It's a shame something like this had to happen, for the young man to die trying to save a so called friend and for the tiger.

Surely all zoo's will turn lemons into lemonade.
Making it safer for all.
Making standards that have to be meet.

I love going to the zoo's in Chicago...There so neat.

 

[RiverRat]

Found this 4 minute video of Tatiana at You-Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j45W81A6c4s

 

[RiverRat]

This video gave me chillbumps!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVLoUonq9-0

 

[RiverRat]

"Added: December 26, 2007
Siberian Tiger from the San Francisco Zoo before it got out on Christmas Night 2007. Video of the two tigers playing together, they look harmless, righ"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB-WFEDNi4I

From the Comments:

"What time was this video taken? The voice of a young man laughing and saying what sounds like "Got me!" in a mocking way sounds pretty creepy considering the current theory that the men taunted the tiger and were generally up to no good that night. Survivors recently arrested for public drunkenness, and have been uncooperative with police."

 

[Amraann]

I found the first video sooo upsetting that poor tiger stuck in that tiny enclosure ... no wonder she snapped.

 

[philamena]

She was certainhly a beauty.
Riverrat,
I'd like to know if the last video you linked was taken the day of the attack. Tatiana ran towards the wall for a reason imo.

 

[dark_shadows]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/29/MNDVU65TO.DTL&tsp=1

Here's the latest article from the SF Chron - certainly sounds like it was a series of blunders...

Dearest Cinsbythesea,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for posting the link to the article.



Part of the timeline from the link that cinsbythesea posted;


Timeline of response

Drawn from dispatch logs of police and fire response to tiger attack at San Francisco Zoo:
5:07 p.m. First 911 call to emergency dispatch from the zoo, saying a "20-year-old" male has been attacked by an "exotic animal."
5:08 p.m. Police are dispatched, but the call is downplayed as being from someone who is "claiming he was bitten by an animal" even though no animal is missing.
5:09 p.m. Police Officers Dean Lee and Vincent Masilang are dispatched from Taraval Station.
5:10 p.m. Zoo personnel not sure there is an emergency because they believe the two living victims are acting erratically. "Zoo thinks they are 800 (police code for mentally disturbed) and making something up." The report confirms one man is bleeding from the back of the head, and within seconds, police hear from the zoo: "Now they are saying they have a tiger out."
5:11 p.m. Police log says the zoo is closing its gates, and several more officers respond to the call.
5:12 p.m. Fire crews arrive at the gate but are soon barred under the "Code One" emergency declared by the zoo.
5:13 p.m. Zoo authorities inform police they are advising patrons to leave.
5:15 p.m. Fire log says police are on scene and the tiger is visible. "Waiting for the guys with the tranquilizer gun." Police log reflects that medics are unable to get into the zoo, where the victim is still inside and "there are zoo keepers trying to round up the tigers" and "get the tigers with tranks (tranquilizers)." "Medics will not enter until secure," the police log notes.
5:16 p.m. "According to medics, zoo keeps trying to calm down the tiger," police log notes.
5:17 p.m. "Zoo security not letting (police) in. Zoo personnel have the tiger in sight and are dealing with it. The victim is in the cafe in the middle of the zoo."
5:18 p.m. Police are allowed to enter through a back entrance.
5:20 p.m. A victim is located. He has a large puncture wound to the neck, and the police log notes that "medics with him now." It is unclear, however, whether he is actually being treated, as paramedics are told not to leave their rigs.
5:20 p.m. A dispatcher asks whether the victim is being treated by medics, but a supervisor indicates that the scene is not secure. "Vets are out there. ... But the scene is not safe," the log indicates.
5:21 p.m. At the cafe, Amritpal Dhaliwal calls on his cell phone and then on a land line to say his 23-year-old brother has been bitten, and he gets instructions on how to stop the bleeding.
5:23 p.m. The phone line at the cafe goes dead. Police at the grotto indicate that they are treating the victim there and that a zoo staff member is at the scene.
5:25 p.m. Lt. Mike Favetti tells dispatch that he has the tiger "sitting right in front of him inside the zoo," but then loses sight of it.
5:27 p.m. Officers spot tiger at the cafe attacking a victim, fires.
5:28 p.m. "Shot cat, victim with medics." Log indicates victim is suffering uncontrolled bleeding.


Here is a video link from ABC News explaining the timeline;
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4064228&affil=wabc

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[RiverRat]

Any Texans around that remember this eerily similar story?!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4558461/

Gorilla shot after escape at Dallas Zoo
3 people hospitalized after attack in Dallas
The Associated Press
updated 2:58 p.m. ET, Fri., March. 19, 2004
DALLAS - Dallas Zoo officials said they can’t explain how a 300-pound gorilla escaped from his enclosure, injuring four people before he was shot to death.

Police evacuated an estimated 300 people from the zoo compound Thursday and killed Jabari, a 13-year-old male western lowland gorilla, after he charged at officers.

Zoo workers armed with tranquilizer guns had pursued the animal through the forested jungles of the Wilds of Africa exhibit for about 40 minutes, but could not gain a clear shot, officials said.

“It tried to charge two of our officers, so we had to shoot it,” Deputy Police Chief Daniel Garcia said. “You can imagine the pandemonium we had out here when he got loose. We felt terrible we had to put this animal down."

Jabari was in the award-winning gorilla-conservation area, two acres surrounded by a 16-foot concave wall, before the attack around 5 p.m. Some youths had reportedly teased Jabari shortly before.

“He had to have scaled the wall,” said zoo director Rich Buickerood. But “this habitat is among the best in the country. This blows our minds.”

 

[JanetElaine]

Dearest Cinsbythesea,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for posting the link to the article.



Part of the timeline from the link that cinsbythesea posted;


Timeline of response

Drawn from dispatch logs of police and fire response to tiger attack at San Francisco Zoo:

[snipped quote]

Thanks for posting that timeline, d_s. I had to go back to my estimated timeline but it seems I was right on the money. That's always nice.

 

[LinasK]

Water wouldn't have helped...Tigers are very GOOD swimmers and LOVE the water.


My Opinion

I never said tigers couldn't swim. I know for a fact they can, but if you are swimming, you're not clawing up a wall or jumping it! A tiger can't jump out of water.

 

[FlowerChild]

Fermi,

From my original post:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1875058&postcount=132

I was simply quoting what was in this article (am I only allowed to post what I know to be fact?):

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/01/01/MNG3CNB93Q1.DTL

"That's how Vikram Chari described the horrifying spectacle that he and his 6-year-old son witnessed at the San Francisco Zoo on the Friday before Christmas, when a Siberian tiger named Tatiana attacked her keeper."

"He said three men tried to yank Komejan, a gifted artist, from Tatiana's grasp. The tiger pulled back, methodically devouring the arm. Finally, a zoo employee grabbed a long pole and jabbed it at Tatiana's head. The tiger let go."

My original post was in response to Littledeer's post:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1877300&postcount=241

"I am sure, that to the Zoo employees that she was considered "tame"."

Nova was correct with the reference to the "tame" comment. It came from Littledeer's post, not yours.

IMO, after that incident with her keeper a year ago, it might have been a good idea to insure that Tatiana was in a very secure environment. Perhaps transferred to a more modern zoo? It seems to me that throughout this story there is a lack of understanding and caution when dealing with a wild animal that had "bitten" a human being in the past.

Any time a captive animal bites a keeper IT IS THE KEEPER'S FAULT! Never the animal, they are not ever "tame" - they are captive WILD ANIMALS (even if raised in captivity their brains are still the same as a WILD animal's). Zoo animals depend on their keepers for every bite of food and a clean and safe environment. They (the animals) are in control of NOTHING and are totally at the mercy of their captors - and that is NOT NATURAL- usually to the detriment of the animal. The Zoos OWE it to their animals to provide a safe secure environment and to NOT allow stupid humans to put them at risk. We are the species with the BIG brain, not them. They are living by instinct and nature - we are the top of the food chain in the cognitive dept and do NOT live by instinct or "survival"....they do. We are supposed to be smart enough to keep the animals we hold captive safe, secure and healthy - if we can't, we shouldn't have them in captivity....period

I am NOT anti Zoo, but I am PRO ANIMAL - we owe them the BEST if we are exhibiting them and removing them from their proper, free, environment in the wild. Tatiana was a TIGER and did what Tigers do naturally - in her world humans are both prey and captor. We owed her a better life but at least now she is forever free and running forever with her kind in the warm sun and gentle rain with a spring to swim in and no humans in sight.

My Opinion

 

[LinasK]

By Tamer El-Ghobashy, Soo Youn and Leo Standora
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Saturday, December 29th 2007, 4:00 AM
The anguished brother of a teen who died trying to save two buddies from a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo struggled Friday to understand why the survivors ran out on their mortally injured friend.
"If he stepped in for you, why did you leave him to die?" asked 17-year-old Carlos Sousa's brother, Leo, 21.
He said his family has been looking for answers since the 350-pound tiger got loose on Christmas and mauled Carlos.
By all accounts, the youth was killed trying to get the big cat away from brothers Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, and Amritpal, 19.
But Leo Sousa said his family's calls to the Dhaliwal family have gone unanswered.
The brothers, who aren't saying much to investigators, could be released from San Francisco General Hospital today.
Even as they were being taken from the zoo with badly bleeding wounds "one brother told the other not to talk to anyone," said a law enforcement source. "They didn't want any pictures taken then or now."
The source said neither brother showed much concern for Carlos. "They were more concerned with their car in the parking lot and that it would be okay," the source said. more at link:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...29_tiger_tragedy_brothers_dont_talk_pact.html