Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory #3

[Alethea Dice]

<bbm>

Nope.

The Kaufman Commission indicated that the problem in the Morin case was not with the profile prepared by John Douglas .. it was due to LE providing Douglas with input when they already had a suspect in mind (a no-no wrt profiling) AND that investigators took it upon themselves to revamp certain aspects of the profile that was released to the public (those aspects changed to point toward their suspect, making their suspect fit the crime). They took portions of JD's profile that did fit Morin and disregarded other portions that would point away from Morin.

Can't find the original, but here's a version of the
Report of the Kaufman Commission on Proceedings Involving Guy Paul Morin:
The Honourable Fred Kaufman CM QC 31 March 1998

http://netk.net.au/Canada/Morin30.asp

PS: Van Allen was analyzing the document, not doing a full profile on an unknown perp.

What they did was to take out or amend the parts that didn't fit Morin when they released the profile to the public.

The Commissioner found that the information investigators provided
to Douglas may have been contaminated by their pre-conceived views. This
highlights the wisdom of not conducting a profile once a suspect has been
identified. Though features of the profile did parallel Guy Paul Morin, it could
not reasonably be said that it matched or even closely resembled Morin. This
caused no introspection on the part of the investigators. Inspector Shephard’s
candid comment was that “if [the profile] said a female was responsible,
probably we would have looked in the other direction.”
A modified profile was released to the public. Characteristics which
corresponded to Morin were released to the press; those which did not were
excluded or amended to conform. The Commissioner found that the use of a
modified profile was problematic. It was intended to ‘spook’ Morin.
However, by tailoring the profile to fit him, the police helped ensure that he
could never get a fair trial in that region.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/morin/morin_esumm.pdf

Recommendation #110 from the Commission:

Limitations upon criminal profiling
Police officers should be trained as to the appropriate use of, and
limitations upon, criminal profiling. Undue reliance upon profiling can
misdirect an investigation. Profiling once a suspect is identified can be
misleading and dangerous, as the investigators’ summary of relevant
facts may be coloured by their suspicions. A profile may generate ideas
for further investigation and, to that extent, it can be an investigative
tool. But it is no substitute for a full and complete investigation,
untainted by preconceptions or stereotypical thinking.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/morin/morin_recom.pdf

An issue arises as to whether the profiling process was corrupted or contaminated during the exchange of information between the Dets and the profiler. Both Fitzpatrick and Shephard understood that the FBI would not prepare a profile if a suspect had been identified.

http://netk.net.au/Canada/Morin30.asp

Same problem in this profile IMO. The suspect had already been identified. How can we know whether those preconceived views affected the profiling.

JMO

 

[swedie]

If they did not want to leave a witness behind, why didn't they go back and kill SB as well? That's what real psychopaths would do. Or someone who got a thrill from killing and wanted to escape detection.

As to your quote, I agree that we should be asking "is the crime incongruent with the person charged?"

How do we know they didn't consider that and when they finished with TB and went back to the Bosma residence, they found LE vehicles in the driveway. How does one get inside the mind of a real psychopath to know what they would do in a situation like this? Obviously the accused weren't very good at escaping detection. WM's and LB's for a time, but they were not so lucky in TB's case. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

For those who still consider the possibility of one or more individuals being an alternate suspect as part of a defence, I found this wiki interesting (haven't had time to read all the references though):

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Evidence/Character/Alternative_Suspect_Evidence



Suggesting another party has the potential to open a real can of worms for the defence:

Well, there is still the matter of who was driving the Yukon.

JMO

 

[swedie]

How do we know they didn't consider that and when they finished with TB and went back to the Bosma residence, they found LE vehicles in the driveway. How does one get inside the mind of a real psychopath to know what they would do? Obviously the accused weren't very good at escaping detection. WM's and LB's for a time, but they were not so lucky in TB's case. MOO

Great reading should anyone be interested: The Forensic Psychology of Criminal Minds, by KR.

All MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

How do we know they didn't consider that and when they finished with TB and went back to the Bosma residence, they found LE vehicles in the driveway. How does one get inside the mind of a real psychopath to know what they would do in a situation like this? Obviously the accused weren't very good at escaping detection. WM's and LB's for a time, but they were not so lucky in TB's case. MOO

Have we done a full circle to "they couldn't have been nutso killers because they didn't kill everyone?" or "there has to be a logical reason and game plan to murder someone" or "people don't murder just for the fun of it?". IMHO, wacko psychopaths are wacko because they think in their own unique wacko way. The whole thing may have seemed extremely well planned out by DM and MS. Maybe killing different types of people or doing combo crimes was on their bucket list?
IMHO, in a world where there are murderers who have sex with their victims after killing them or eat them like good old JD, (any guess what his motive was?) IMO it's ridiculous to think there has to be any rational to these murders. DM and MS are no different. The people left behind alive are simply very lucky- SB, AS, SL...all of them are very lucky. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Well, there is still the matter of who was driving the Yukon.

JMO

Don't you think if there was still a third suspect who was guilty of murdering TB, DM or MS would have given that up by now and LE would have been all over them?

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...estigator_says.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Kavanagh now says police are not sure whether Smich, who is said to have been in the back seat of the truck while Millard was driving, exited that vehicle after leaving Bosma’s home and got into the driver’s seat of the Yukon.

“That is possible right now, yes, but I’m not going to commit either way,” Kavanagh said.

If there is a third suspect, Kavanagh said, police do not have any leads on who it might be.

Millard’s girlfriend, whose identity is protected by a court-ordered publication ban, is not believed to be involved, the detective said.

“Millard’s girlfriend has been cleared of that,” he said.

 

[Sillybilly]

IMHO, in a world where there are murderers who have sex with their victims after killing them or eat them like good old JD, (any guess what his motive was?)

<rsbm>

Um yeah ... wasn't it because he wanted to stay close to them or something along those lines? And this does not make perfect sense to you because??? What's wacko with that?

 

[Carli]

Anybody know who all was living, staying, or over nighting at Maple Gate at the time WM was allegedly murdered?

 

[MsSherlock]

<rsbm>

Um yeah ... wasn't it because he wanted to stay close to them or something along those lines? And this does not make perfect sense to you because??? What's wacko with that?

Oh Sillybilly anyone would see JD's actions made perfect sense! All jokes aside, there are professionals like psychologists and homicide LE who can't even figure out why these people do what they do, so IMHO, I have no problem with not being able to figure out why DM & MS did what they did. Just like in the JD case, the morbid details will come out soon enough. MOO

"According to Dahmer, he had no intention of murdering Tuomi, but simply intended to drug him and have intercourse with him as he lay unconscious. The following morning, however, he awoke to find Tuomi lying beneath him on the bed, his chest "crushed in" and blood seeping from his mouth, with bruises on Dahmer's own fists and one forearm. Dahmer stated he had absolutely no memory of having killed Tuomi[74][77] and later informed investigators that he simply "could not believe this had happened." To dispose of Tuomi's body, he purchased a large suitcase in which he transported the body to his grandmother's residence. There, the following morning, he severed the head, arms and legs from the torso,[78] then filleted the bones from the body before cutting the flesh into pieces small enough to handle. He then placed the flesh inside plastic garbage bags.[79] The bones he wrapped inside a sheet and pounded into splinters with a sledgehammer. The entire dismemberment process took Dahmer approximately two hours to complete and all of Tuomi's remains&#8212;excluding the severed head[80]&#8212;were disposed of in the trash.[81]

For a total of two weeks following Tuomi's murder, Dahmer retained the victim's head wrapped in a blanket. After two weeks, Dahmer boiled the head in a mixture of Soilex and bleach in an effort to retain the skull, which he then used as stimulus for masturbation. Eventually, the skull was rendered too brittle by this bleaching process, and was also pulverized and disposed of.[80]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer

 

[MsSherlock]

Anybody know who all was living, staying, or over nighting at Maple Gate at the time WM was allegedly murdered?

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ived-at-home-of-wayne-and-dellen-millard.html

 

[hopingforjustice]

Have we done a full circle to "they couldn't have been nutso killers because they didn't kill everyone?" or "there has to be a logical reason and game plan to murder someone" or "people don't murder just for the fun of it?". IMHO, wacko psychopaths are wacko because they think in their own unique wacko way. The whole thing may have seemed extremely well planned out by DM and MS. Maybe killing different types of people or doing combo crimes was on their bucket list?
IMHO, in a world where there are murderers who have sex with their victims after killing them or eat them like good old JD, (any guess what his motive was?) IMO it's ridiculous to think there has to be any rational to these murders. DM and MS are no different. The people left behind alive are simply very lucky- SB, AS, SL...all of them are very lucky. MOO

I could not agree more. None of us with a sane mind can even comprehend their "logic". On a side note...Not only with regard to this case...life (or should I say the number of unbelievable and unfortunate deaths) ,There is a another very serious problem with all of these "grisly" crimes happening. you only have to look at the suicide stats for first responders for confirmation of this fact. These people are seeing far more grisly and "deranged" crimes than ever before. And that is a problem! JMO MOO

 

[hopingforjustice]

Have we done a full circle to "they couldn't have been nutso killers because they didn't kill everyone?" or "there has to be a logical reason and game plan to murder someone" or "people don't murder just for the fun of it?". IMHO, wacko psychopaths are wacko because they think in their own unique wacko way. The whole thing may have seemed extremely well planned out by DM and MS. Maybe killing different types of people or doing combo crimes was on their bucket list?
IMHO, in a world where there are murderers who have sex with their victims after killing them or eat them like good old JD, (any guess what his motive was?) IMO it's ridiculous to think there has to be any rational to these murders. DM and MS are no different. The people left behind alive are simply very lucky- SB, AS, SL...all of them are very lucky. MOO

I could not agree more. None of us with a sane mind can even comprehend their "logic". On a side note...Not only with regard to this case...life (or should I say the number of unbelievable and unfortunate deaths) ,There is a another very serious problem with all of these "grisly" crimes happening. you only have to look at the suicide stats for first responders for confirmation of this fact. These people are seeing far more grisly and "deranged" crimes than ever before. And that is a problem! JMO MOO

 

[matou]

I thought Smich was arrested at the same time that police stated that Millard's Yukon was identified as the vehicle that followed Tim's truck. I believe both announcements happened at the same time or around the same time. I assumed this meant the Smich's fingerprints were in the Yukon. After DM's arrest, the Yukon was seized and likely searched thoroughly for evidence. Since Smich has priors and fingerprint records, this is likely how he was finally identified as the second suspect. JMO

 

[matou]

It's in the Smich thread. During the presser, it was revealed the second vehicle was Millard's Yukon and Smich was second suspect arrested. I'll be darned if both announcements aren't related to each other. JMO

If so, this means TB was in his truck alone with either DM or MS as they drove away.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Comparisons to Jeffrey Dahmer? Really?

 

[swedie]

MS's music video, is there a copy in the MSM to view? TIA.

Edit: Found an article with part of the video.

http://globalnews.ca/news/585859/2nd-suspect-formally-charged-in-tim-bosma-murder-case/

 

[Arnie M]

It's in the Smich thread. During the presser, it was revealed the second vehicle was Millard's Yukon and Smich was second suspect arrested. I'll be darned if both announcements aren't related to each other. JMO

If so, this means TB was in his truck alone with either DM or MS as they drove away.

That has been a head scratcher from day one matou

-- It was reported they "walked into" TBs yard , so the Yukon would have to be parked on the road ... which means one of them rode in TBs truck for only a few feet , then hopped in the Yukon .... it doesn't make sense , why not just walk to the Yukon if it is that close

-- Or the Yukon was parked or hidden a distance down the road , I have checked and there are several old driveways into fields and old farm sites which would be good hiding spots for the Yukon .... but that would mean a "long" walk back to TBs yard

--Either of the above would mean they killed TB almost the moment they left the house , or the person driving the truck did the killing single handedly while enroute ... which would mean a handgun , which would require extraordinary fortitude.

-- Or the Yukon driver met up with the truck somewhere down the highway , say the industrial park , and then the killing happened , this may be the most likely scenario , but it does make the "short test drive" into a long one.

This Murder Mystery has an abundance of Mysteries

 

[swedie]

Comparisons to Jeffrey Dahmer? Really?

Time will tell. We just don't know what makes murderer tick. MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Don't you think if there was still a third suspect who was guilty of murdering TB, DM or MS would have given that up by now and LE would have been all over them?

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...estigator_says.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

If no one is talking, and considering they didn't even know what kind of vehicle was following TB's truck in the beginning, or how many people were in it, I don't know what they might have now that would make them determine that there were only the two of them involved. Or how they would determine which one got into the Yukon and which one stayed with TB. If only one stayed with TB and one left in the Yukon, why are both charged with first degree? They said the reason for the 1st degree charge was because of the abduction, but only one would have stopped TB from leaving if only one stayed with him. As for fingerprints in the Yukon, both would be there, and perhaps others as well. I doubt one walked and met the other at TB's house, so of course those prints should be there. If all three were involved in any way, they aren't going to talk just to blame the third one because they would all still be charged anyway.

It just seems odd that they originally were looking for at least a third suspect, if not more, and now seem quite content to forget about whoever drove the Yukon. Even if that driver left, it seems obvious to me that they still knew what was happening and should have some charges too.

Police are also seeking at least one more person.

Video evidence reveals another vehicle following Bosma’s pickup truck when he left on the test drive, Kavanagh said.

Police have been unable to identify the vehicle’s model from the footage.

Police said only that it is an “SUV-type vehicle.”

“When Mr. Bosma’s vehicle left his residence, there was a second vehicle following,” Kavanagh said.

“We do not know at this time how many people were in that second vehicle.”

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

 

[matou]

"He was taken to a location in Waterloo and his body was burned."

@0:41 http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

Is Ayr in Waterloo? I know the hangar is. So was he burned in the hangar?