Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory #3

[matou]

<rsbm>

Yeah .. I was kinda wondering if maybe peeps like Margie Keaton, PsyD and Dr. Erica Hutton should start looking for jobs in another field

from:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/expert-fishers-slaying-was-textbook-thrill-kill



from:
http://ericahutton.blogspot.ca/2013/06/an-assessment-of-thrill-killing.html

The typical person that commits a thrill kill is going to be a male with a history of anger management issues, disorderly conduct, and an abrasive demeanor that they are good at hiding from others to reduce the level of judgment that may ensure if people around them knew their &#8220;real&#8221; identity. I have seen females commit thrill kills, but it is not as prevalent as having a male commit such crimes. In regards to what triggers such behavior, it is really a matter of fragmented reality. This does not mean that they are insane or mentally ill, suffering from some form of psychopathology but rather in their reality, they deserve respect, attention, special treatment, and they predict how individuals should treat them and react towards them. When these aspects do not meet the standards of their expectations, they react in rage and it is this rage that can lead to them killing an individual. In regards to the specifics that trigger this behavior; it is rather subjective and will depend upon the perpetrator. Thrill killers are typically going to be Caucasian males that have slight sociopathic tendencies; they are not full blown psychopaths though. Additionally, if given the opportunity, they would love to be a psychopath and more often than not, they privately fantasize about such notions.

This reminds me of one of DM's tattoos. I think it's a quote from some song he likes. Anyone remember what it is?

 

[matou]

"I am heaven sent" "Don't you dare forget"

Totally fits the thrill killer profile in my opinion.

 

[matou]

Thrill kills are not always planned because when the crime is taking place, there is nothing but an appeasement of power over another individual of individuals; however, when this power wears off, there is a notion of culpability, they may therefore dismember their victims, they may set them on fire to hide evidence, or even bury or sink their victims underground to hide the body or bodies. This is a form of psychological undoing. A thrill kill is based upon a sensation if you will, in which there is a desire to kill; however, if there isn&#8217;t really an individual that comes into the forefront that meets the standards of the ideal, then there won&#8217;t be a killing enacted upon because that takes away from the thrill, if that makes sense. In other words, with a thrill kill there is a notion of what would be thrilling within one&#8217;s fantasies if they had opportunity to kill another person, and it is just a matter of time before one is able to maximize upon their fantasy and bring this into reality. Being apprehended and charged for their actions is not really a part of the fantasy so there is usually an apathetic response at the proceedings in which charges are being determined because in retrospect, their excitement is now indeterminate and after the fact their killing is somewhat impersonal in regards to their current disposition.

http://ericahutton.blogspot.ca/2013/06/an-assessment-of-thrill-killing.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'd still like to see the proof that DM "trained" his buddies to call him Boss. IMO, most people would fall somewhere in between the master and the slave.

The will to power is just one paradigm out there, but it seems meaningful IMO in this case. Some philosophize that we are driven foremost to seek pleasure, others hypothesize that people are driven by the quest for meaning in life. Nietzsche imagines people are either fundamentally power hungry or accepting of the yoke.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The typical person that commits a thrill kill is going to be a male with a history of anger management issues, disorderly conduct, and an abrasive demeanor that they are good at hiding from others to reduce the level of judgment that may ensure if people around them knew their “real” identity. I have seen females commit thrill kills, but it is not as prevalent as having a male commit such crimes. In regards to what triggers such behavior, it is really a matter of fragmented reality. This does not mean that they are insane or mentally ill, suffering from some form of psychopathology but rather in their reality, they deserve respect, attention, special treatment, and they predict how individuals should treat them and react towards them. When these aspects do not meet the standards of their expectations, they react in rage and it is this rage that can lead to them killing an individual. In regards to the specifics that trigger this behavior; it is rather subjective and will depend upon the perpetrator. Thrill killers are typically going to be Caucasian males that have slight sociopathic tendencies; they are not full blown psychopaths though. Additionally, if given the opportunity, they would love to be a psychopath and more often than not, they privately fantasize about such notions.

It's interesting that there is a bit of fascination with celebrity among DM's associates: people like MWJ, CS, MS seeking notoriety online with a public profile illustrated in videos.

DM was a Z-list celebrity when he made the Star with his flying exploits at 14, and shortly thereafter he switched from TFS to a school catering to, among others, child celebrity TV stars. Was the drive and desire for celebrity part of DM's character?

He was hanging out with people who liked attention (not necessarily good attention...can you say "face tattoo"?)

Was a frustrated attempt to achieve celebrity behind the drive to thrill kill? Could DM not get the kind of attention he wanted within his social circle of nobodies who wannabe?

 

[Juballee]

RSBM. IMO your hypothetical scenario is just another lame line of defense to try out for DM. I have followed this case for quite awhile and am past the point of playing pretend games. If I want to do some mind exercises with hypotheticals I will do that elsewhere, not on the Tim Bosma forum. If you are interested in that, great, but it's pretty ridiculous to say "aha!" when almost no one follows your parameters.

Participation was optional; if one thought it was lame, one didn't have to join in on that discussion.

 

[Juballee]

BBM - Can you provide a link please? I think common sense applies here, not general data. Just because 'Thrill kills' are highly contested by scientists in general, doesn't mean it wasn't part of the motive in this case, LB's or WM's.

MK also admitted he did did not know what a "thrill kill" was so HTH clarify that. Remember, this was very early on in the case. Certainly more evidence was gathered to explain the motive. We'll have to wait about a year before the evidence is presented to show motive. In the meantime, look at the big picture. Does it really matter whether it was a "thrill kill" considering TB was murdered and incinerated and DM and MS are still facing murder charges? MOO.

But the lead investigator in the case denied that police were looking at the possibility the homicide may have been just for a thrill.
&#8220;I don&#8217;t know the motive for this,&#8221; Det. Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said Thursday. &#8220;I don&#8217;t even know what thrill kill means. It&#8217;s not been discussed. Where it&#8217;s coming from, I don&#8217;t know.&#8221;

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2..._man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html

[U]Police are now considering a &#8220;thrill kill&#8221; as a possible motive for the mysterious slaying of Tim Bosma.[/U]

&#8220;It is seriously being looked at,&#8221; said one police source. &#8220;There is a theory that it was about stealing a truck but also hurting somebody.&#8221;

Stealing the truck is definitely also part of it.

&#8220;There was an obsession over that truck,&#8221; the copper said. &#8220;But there is potentially more since it could have easily been stolen anywhere.&#8221;

Instead, there was a staged event.

&#8220;Twisted would be the word,&#8221; an officer said.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

Thanks for the correction on the quote from the officer Swedie, I sure am glad I added 'if I recall correctly' to that sentence!

Personally, I tend to put more weight on the words of officers giving an official statement at a press conference over an anonymous source, but everyone is different.

As for your requested links, this has been discussed ad nauseam in earlier threads and then rehashed here as well. It seems that just as the jury is still out in the scientific community as to wether or not it exists as a real motive, and not just another excuse for psychopathic, sadistic, impulsive or rage killings, it seems that our community here is still not in consensus on the idea either. Hope that helps, and thanks again.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks for the correction on the quote from the officer Swedie, I sure am glad I added 'if I recall correctly' to that sentence!

Personally, I tend to put more weight on the words of officers giving an official statement at a press conference over an anonymous source, but everyone is different.

As for your requested links, this has been discussed ad nauseam in earlier threads and then rehashed here as well. It seems that just as the jury is still out in the scientific community as to wether or not it exists as a real motive, and not just another excuse for psychopathic, sadistic, impulsive or rage killings, it seems that our community here is still not in consensus on the idea either. Hope that helps, and thanks again.

I am curious as to what you mean as to "real motive"...that a thrill kill is not a real motive just like circumstantial evidence is not real evidence?

That unless the motive centered around something material (and DM could afford to buy any material thing, remember) then there is no motive?

 

[Alethea Dice]

<rsbm>

Yeah .. I was kinda wondering if maybe peeps like Margie Keaton, PsyD and Dr. Erica Hutton should start looking for jobs in another field

from:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/expert-fishers-slaying-was-textbook-thrill-kill



from:
http://ericahutton.blogspot.ca/2013/06/an-assessment-of-thrill-killing.html

The typical person that commits a thrill kill is going to be a male with a history of anger management issues, disorderly conduct, and an abrasive demeanor that they are good at hiding from others to reduce the level of judgment that may ensure if people around them knew their &#8220;real&#8221; identity. I have seen females commit thrill kills, but it is not as prevalent as having a male commit such crimes. In regards to what triggers such behavior, it is really a matter of fragmented reality. This does not mean that they are insane or mentally ill, suffering from some form of psychopathology but rather in their reality, they deserve respect, attention, special treatment, and they predict how individuals should treat them and react towards them. When these aspects do not meet the standards of their expectations, they react in rage and it is this rage that can lead to them killing an individual. In regards to the specifics that trigger this behavior; it is rather subjective and will depend upon the perpetrator. Thrill killers are typically going to be Caucasian males that have slight sociopathic tendencies; they are not full blown psychopaths though. Additionally, if given the opportunity, they would love to be a psychopath and more often than not, they privately fantasize about such notions.

Interesting how she starts out by saying thrill killers are led to kill by rage when they are not treated the way they think they should be treated. But then goes on to say, as others do, that it's the attack that is the thrill, the torture before the kill, the power over another person, the victim pleading for their life, when she discusses actual examples.

 

[Alethea Dice]

The burner phone was purchased three months prior to the murder of Tim Bosma. So in February sometime. JMO Planning for some crazy chit?

Maybe it was just someone's drug deal phone. According to SB's expert, thrill kills are spontaneous.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thanks for the correction on the quote from the officer Swedie, I sure am glad I added 'if I recall correctly' to that sentence!

Personally, I tend to put more weight on the words of officers giving an official statement at a press conference over an anonymous source, but everyone is different.

As for your requested links, this has been discussed ad nauseam in earlier threads and then rehashed here as well. It seems that just as the jury is still out in the scientific community as to wether or not it exists as a real motive, and not just another excuse for psychopathic, sadistic, impulsive or rage killings, it seems that our community here is still not in consensus on the idea either. Hope that helps, and thanks again.

I also give more credence to the official statements than I do to LE "not connected to the case" who speak anonymously.

It does seem that the verdict is out on whether this was a murder committed out of anger, for financial gain, for attention, or simply for the thrill of it all.

 

[ABro]

Interesting how she starts out by saying thrill killers are led to kill by rage when they are not treated the way they think they should be treated. But then goes on to say, as others do, that it's the attack that is the thrill, the torture before the kill, the power over another person, the victim pleading for their life, when she discusses actual examples.

I don't see the two statements as being at all contradictory. A rage-filled killer who doesn't feel he's treated right finally experiences the power that escapes him in his everyday life by taking someone else's life.

 

[ABro]

I also give more credence to the official statements than I do to LE "not connected to the case" who speak anonymously.

It does seem that the verdict is out on whether this was a murder committed out of anger, for financial gain, for attention, or simply for the thrill of it all.

Except this non-connected cop also said in the same article that WM was shot in the eye and the death was classified as a suicide, which turned out to be true.

I have a great deal of respect for Kavanagh. He deals with the press well and is as open as any Canadian cop, but what was he going to say in a situation like that?

There's no way he would ever speculate on the death being a thrill kill before discussing it with Tim Bosma's family.

 

[MsSherlock]

Seriously, IMHO, I'm having such a hard time understanding why any person unrelated to this case would take it upon themselves to wage a full defense for the guy. IMO, they have volumes of disclosure material, highly paid defense attorneys and he'll get his day in court. There's also a whole pile of people on the "do not contact" list who could be witnesses. Sure, sure, sure...the guy may be innocent, but why insult my intelligence? I'm sure this isn't the first perp to get a following- people even marry confessed murderers. His "online" defense is relentless and it all goes against the facts. I'd like to know what happens on these threads the day after the guilty verdict? IMO, DM is a one sick puppy, (don't know why and don't care), TB has been murdered (for no reason), there's plenty of evidence and DM will be found guilty. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Seriously, IMHO, I'm having such a hard time understanding why any person unrelated to this case would take it upon themselves to wage a full defense for the guy. IMO, they have volumes of disclosure material, highly paid defense attorneys and he'll get his day in court. There's also a whole pile of people on the "do not contact" list who could be witnesses. Sure, sure, sure...the guy may be innocent, but why insult my intelligence? I'm sure this isn't the first perp to get a following- people even marry confessed murderers. His "online" defense is relentless and it all goes against the facts. I'd like to know what happens on these threads the day after the guilty verdict? IMO, DM is a one sick puppy, (don't know why and don't care), TB has been murdered (for no reason), there's plenty of evidence and DM will be found guilty. MOO

The Star just had an interesting story about the family of BTK http://www.thestar.com/news/insight...rs-daughter-struggles-to-forgive-her-dad.html

BTK's daughter...

Other times, she&#8217;d write, and he would not, and later write that he&#8217;d been busy.

&#8220;Busy?&#8221; she thought. &#8220;What the hell is he doing in prison to be &#8216;busy&#8217;?&#8221;

She later learned that he had a fan club &#8212; loons who wrote to him.

 

[matou]

Seriously, IMHO, I'm having such a hard time understanding why any person unrelated to this case would take it upon themselves to wage a full defense for the guy. IMO, they have volumes of disclosure material, highly paid defense attorneys and he'll get his day in court. There's also a whole pile of people on the "do not contact" list who could be witnesses. Sure, sure, sure...the guy may be innocent, but why insult my intelligence? I'm sure this isn't the first perp to get a following- people even marry confessed murderers. His "online" defense is relentless and it all goes against the facts. I'd like to know what happens on these threads the day after the guilty verdict? IMO, DM is a one sick puppy, (don't know why and don't care), TB has been murdered (for no reason), there's plenty of evidence and DM will be found guilty. MOO

It reminds me of the Michael Rafferty trial where there were a bunch of people posting in defense of that child killer. There were a few unverified insiders who knew him and even dated him. I'm sure they were shocked senseless after the facts came out during the trial and guess what? All of them disappeared from the threads after he was found guilty. Same thing will happen again IMO.

 

[MsSherlock]

It reminds me of the Michael Rafferty trial where there were a bunch of people posting in defense of that child killer. There were a few unverified insiders who knew him and even dated him. I'm sure they were shocked senseless after the facts came out during the trial and guess what? All of them disappeared from the threads after he was found guilty. Same thing will happen again IMO.

Thanks Matou. I wasn't around for the TS trial. Guess it's easy to slip away after I'm not happy with the sloppiness of LE in the LB disappearance- TPS really let that one slip. But, I do have faith in modern forensic sciences, DNA. digital trails, pics and everything else LE have at their fingertips to solve crimes. IMHO, I do not need to defend LE or the justice system. IF LE have 3 guys locked up in jail for no reason whatsoever, then our entire justice system is a mockery. IMO, they are locked up for good reason, and they'll remain locked up for the rest of their life because they're murderers and we will be exposed to the disgusting evidence soon enough. Presumed Innocent? DeNial is not a river in Egypt. MOO

 

[matou]

No one has posted on here in defense of DM, MS or CN as a verified or unverified insider. However, a friend of Smich's was interviewed on camera in his defense. A friend of DM's who doesn't even live in Canada made some statements about him being a hillbilly and not knowing that he had money. A friend of Noudga said the same even though he took Noudga skydiving and on vacations. If he paid for these things (including jet skis, tours in his own helicopter) then he obviously has money.

 

[swedie]

It reminds me of the Michael Rafferty trial where there were a bunch of people posting in defense of that child killer. There were a few unverified insiders who knew him and even dated him. I'm sure they were shocked senseless after the facts came out during the trial and guess what? All of them disappeared from the threads after he was found guilty. Same thing will happen again IMO.

BBM - Respectfully and sorry but I don't agree with this part of your post Matou. I don't believe anyone on Tori's forum was shocked senseless when the evidence was presented and the verdict read. I don't believe there was even a tad bit of surprise by those MR supporters/posters kwim. JMHO. Mission/agenda?? Who knows and should we really care? The was found guilty based on the overwhelming evidence presented in court, (even overwhelming evidence kept from the jury). I expect the same will happen in this case regardless of what some say here. Again JMHO.

 

[matou]

BBM - Respectfully and sorry but I don't agree with this part of your post Matou. I don't believe anyone on Tori's forum was shocked senseless when the evidence was presented and the verdict read. I don't believe there was even a tad bit of surprise by those MR supporters/posters kwim. JMHO. Mission/agenda?? Who knows and should we really care? The was found guilty based on the overwhelming evidence presented in court, (even overwhelming evidence kept from the jury). I expect the same will happen in this case regardless of what some say here. Again JMHO.

OK thankfully though, most of all those posters went poof after the guilty verdict was read and the facts that were thrown out revealed.