Timeline Discussion

[Calliope]

BBM.

We know next to nothing about Terri Moulton Horman. She could have been exhibiting all kinds of signs and patterns for most, or all, of her life. We don't know if she has a diagnosed (or undiagnosed) psychopathic history. As you also say above, the signs could have been missed. Or, people just didn't recognize what the signs meant. As for patterns, wouldn't only a professional, or someone who studied psychopaths, really SEE and RECOGNIZE the patterns?

My thoughts on this, and also my OPINIONS.

Tony is a detective. Wouldn't he have noticed something a little 'off' before all this went down?

 

[21merc7]

What would Terri gain from Kyron's disappearance? IMO- MONEY (the school "lost" him and a civil suit would take place) and honestly, again, MOO, she would receive the attention I think she constantly craves.

Just jumping off your post chasing, not directed at you;

Who is it that likes the spotlight so much?

Who gets paid for spotlight?

(Actions speak louder than words.)

JMO

 

[Calliope]

BBM.

Maybe, but they can also impeach his grandmother for going against FBI (?) instructions regarding not speaking to the media. Plus, who knows what LE has dug up on this family. If I remember correctly, they know Terri and could have coached the little boy to lie for her.

The DA can get the grandmother, seen in the same news segment, on the stand and just go to town with her. The DA can ask the little boy some carefully worded questions, and since it is likely that his story is one that is made up, or the little guy is confused on times, I feel pretty sure his say-so is not going to cause Terri to go free, once arrested for this horrendous crime.

Just my opinions.

I don't see the DA playing hard-ball with the child on the stand. That wouldn't sit well with the jury, IMO.

Grandma not only put T at risk but the eventual prosecution as well. Way to go, (unusual person).

 

[Calliope]

When asked, Kaine could not give an opinion on what type of relationship Kyron and Terri had. So I am not convinced he would have noticed subtle warning signs that his wife was a sociopath. I get the feeling there was little interaction between them in recent months.

OR... they had a good relationship, and it doesn't further his case to point that out.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

What would Terri gain from Kyron's disappearance? IMO- MONEY (the school "lost" him and a civil suit would take place) and honestly, again, MOO, she would receive the attention I think she constantly craves.

If the MFH plot is true, she obviously truly despised Kaine. Since the plot wasn't going to work out (and who knows if she tried other things that didn't work - i.e poisoning) what would be the next best way hurt Kaine more than anything? Plus, from what we've seen of her, I think the attention from it all would have been an added bonus!

I'm not too concerned about the fact Kyron seems to be placed at the school after TH left, as others seem to be. I think it is very likely TH would not have wanted anyone to see them leaving together so she told Kyron she'd be back for him. She may have told him not to tell anyone because it was a surprise and planned to meet him outside a door that nobody hung around - being the gym door. She may have picked him up before 10:10, too. We don't know exactly what the receipts are for - she could have easily done whatever it was with him in the truck. Maybe she even told him to stay down in the back since it was a "surprise". Besides, she has an hour and a half she cannot account for. And, that time starts around the time it was noticed Kyron was gone.

 

[Calliope]

The investigators have let us know, mainly through Kaine and Desiree, that TERRI HAS LIED.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to go over this entire case and to recognize that this woman has a very tenuous relationship with TRUTH. To me, it is CLEAR that she has been caught in lies and these will be her downfall.

As far as SPECIFIC lies that we, the public can be completely sure of, that is not what is important; not to me, anyway.

It is the EVIDENCE of her lies, that has obviously been uncovered by investigators, that matters to me.

My opinions.

bbm

The SO has on at least 2 occasions that I know of distanced themselves from what the family is stating, and in no uncertain terms stated the information did not come from LE. So whether they are doing that or not, they're certainly going to great lengths to deny it.

 

[Pensfan]

Terri had to take the sick, whiney toddler to the athletic center daycare because she needed to have an excuse to use the athletic center's shower/bathroom. After working out( with groceries melting in the car?), she could change clothes and dispose of clothes if needed. In many photos, Terri has on dark colored athletic pants and she may have owned several pairs if she worked out numerous days/week. If one pair was disposed, nobody would notice because she has others.

 

[M-pathetic]

I haven't read the whole thread yet so this has probably been stated already. She could have driven/walked him into some deep woods and abandoned him there. From the looks of the maps in that area, there are so many wooded and forested areas. IMO they can't have searched them all yet. If it's even possible...

This is something I was horrified as I pondered weeks ago when we heard about Kyron's near blindness w/o his glasses and his allergy to bees. However, I abandoned the idea--knowing that it was possible Kyron would live, be found and be able to talk about who left him in the woods...
IF DS is not an innocent pawn in Terri's madness, tell me WHO would willingly participate in something so diabolical besides a relative or a lover? Even then, they would likely do so only if convinced something terribly accidental occurred, imo.

 

[seeking truth]

Tony is a detective. Wouldn't he have noticed something a little 'off' before all this went down?

Sure. I bet lots of people in Terri's life have noticed things to be "off" about her, long before this tragedy involving Kyron.

Tony is a detective, not a mental health professional (as far as I know). Plus, he did not live with Terri and we don't know how much interaction he had with her before Kyron went missing. But, as he appears to be quite sensitive, I'll bet he and Desiree have been discussing Terri for years. Also, Tony Young's gentleness and seeming protectiveness of Kaine throughout this nightmare points to a man who sees and understands a lot about human nature, the way I see it.

As you point out, being a detective would make him a person more likely than the average citizen to notice personal characteristics, behaviors, demeanor of people, including, and especially, of Terri.

this is my opinion

 

[chasing.halos]

If the MFH plot is true, she obviously truly despised Kaine. Since the plot wasn't going to work out (and who knows if she tried other things that didn't work - i.e poisoning) what would be the next best way hurt Kaine more than anything? Plus, from what we've seen of her, I think the attention from it all would have been an added bonus!

I'm not too concerned about the fact Kyron seems to be placed at the school after TH left, as others seem to be. I think it is very likely TH would not have wanted anyone to see them leaving together so she told Kyron she'd be back for him. She may have told him not to tell anyone because it was a surprise and planned to meet him outside a door that nobody hung around - being the gym door. She may have picked him up before 10:10, too. We don't know exactly what the receipts are for - she could have easily done whatever it was with him in the truck. Maybe she even told him to stay down in the back since it was a "surprise". Besides, she has an hour and a half she cannot account for. And, that time starts around the time it was noticed Kyron was
gone.

In my opinion, if the MFH plan is indeed true, I think TH plotted it not because she despises Kaine but because she wanted 2 things: Money and freedom. Again, just my opinion.
Gosh this case gets crazier every day doesn't it? I have a feeling it is going to get even crazier next week for some reason.
Kyron we are doing all we can to find you!! :heart:

 

[Calliope]

BBM...??? A 7yo isn't going to crack when questioned by LE? It's been almost 2 months! And while the FBI can ask you not to speak about the investigation, it's not illegal. We still live in a free country.

As far as his honesty, this child is probably the person with the least motive to lie in the entire case. He is the one person who really rings true to me, and puts me back on that fence.



TP didn't give a time, but he indicated that it was when they were gathering together after viewing the exhibits in small groups. The "sub" was short a child and indicated it was Kyron. IMHO, that indicates that it was nearing the 10 AM time period when regular classes were supposed to begin. It also, IMHO, indicates that the "sub" (teacher helper, parent volunteer, whatever) did see Kyron and have him in her group at least initially. Why suddenly look for a child you've never seen?

If this is actually what happened and Terri can "prove" where she was until 10:10, then there is a problem with the timeline.

If no one saw her leave with Kyron and if he is not found, I don't see how anyone can charge her. What would they put on the arrest warrant? "I have a hinky feeling?" :waitasec: While it's frustrating not knowing, I don't ever want to be arrested, charged, or tried because of someone's hunch.

How soon after she left the school at 8:45 did she arrive at the first place she stopped to do her errands? (ATM, store, whatever)

Did anyone help her carry her purchases to the truck?

Did she have to stop to purchase gas for the truck --- Oregon does not allow self-service fueling, IIRC.

Did anyone park next to the truck while she was in *whatever* store(s)?

IOW, how much time elapsed from the time she left school until she was in a store (or at the bank) and were there any witnesses to what was inside the truck during the 8:45 - 10:10 time frame?

 

[human]

What kind of careful planning and premeditation goes into the part "And then I just drove around rural roads for a an hour or so"?

I was thinking of a liar that I know . She was 18 when I met her and is in her 50's now.

I can't say about her lying types over the years as I severed the relationship quite early on. She is an ex-sister-in-law of my best friend.

At age 18 she told us she was a nurse and a truck driver and a mid wife.

She is in her 50's now and is in a professional position.

My friend and I were talking about how at her presentations she talks about her nursing career.

Apparently no one has checked. But as ex sisiter-in-law, my friend knows that she never completed college nor was she ever any kind of nurse. I will not go into how she got a professional position. It is not related to nursing.

She also had gastric by-pass and told everyone that she lost a lot of weight because she was sick.

People who lie get used to lying and getting away with it, so they don't even consider how outrageous their lies might be.

 

[Calliope]

I hope YES to the first and NO to the second!

We have a major, massive problem with antibiotic resistance in this country and one of the contributors is doctors who prescribe antibiotics for children's ear infections. Research shows that over 80% of such ear infections resolve without antibiotics. The over 80% who get unnecessary antibiotics are contributing to problems like MRSA, which is a major killer of hospitalised patients in this country (estimates are that more people die of MRSA and similar infections in hospitals in the US every year than die in vehicle crashes).

In Norway, there has been a national push to eliminate the unnecessary prescription of antibiotics. With the results that they don't even have MRSA infections in their country and they can use antibiotics that are outmoded in the rest of the industrialised world because they are still effective in Norway.

This is a huge sore spot for me: I contracted MRSA from the environment and it left me completely disabled. Basically my life is just marking time until I die. I don't want anyone else to suffer this way.

I'm sorry you're going through this. IMO, MRSA is becoming the norm, rather than the exception. In fact, MRSA may be the least of our problems when it comes to drug resistant organisms. The push for tightening up on antibiotic use is coming to the forefront in this country too, but IMO too little, too late.

BTW in our facility, there is a long list of otherwise routine antibiotics that can only be ordered on the approval of the ID specialists.

 

[GameTheory]

I think what can reveal a lot of things about this timeline and we still don't know is WHEN this timeline was actually brought forward?
Was it immediately, with first contact with police...''this is what I did that day''??

Or this is a second or third or fourth account after perhaps she was confronted with cell pings? or a witness placing her somewhere in the rural area she was driving? Looking from those very first days at that rural area and I am sure the car was checked - even though it was supposedly at the mechanic

It does make a big difference to the ''plausibility'' of driving around to make the baby feel better if it was a story given to the police immediately or if she changed her story after being confronted with some evidence? I believe it is the second but that is just my feeling and opinion. And even if she did say this story to the police immediately, I am sure they asked the dad...hey is this something she has done before? Sooth the baby this way...driving her around? Because if not it is surely a big coincidence to do the very same day Kyron goes missing.

And there are still so many things missing from this timeline anyway. What time did the actual shopping took place? Was there any actual shopping done anyway? Which shops? What times? Is there video evidence? Did she run in with people who knew her and spoke with them? What did they say to the police? Did she tell the story of the ear pain at the gym as well? What were her conversations with the people at the gym that hour? Did she tell them she was at the school to see Kyron's project? What phonecalls did she make that day? Did her friends' cell pings place them at the same time at those rural roads?

The thing is I think the police already have the answers to the above bolded questions. It is just a matter of not being Florida like we got used to with the Casey Anthony case, seeing all the interviews coming to light almost at the same time the investigation was going on. We had the interviews with the friends, the tapes at the store with the stolen check, the video at the video store with Tony, they interviewed everybody like the tattoo shop owner, what they talked about that day she got the tattoo. I bet they have the exact same type of information in this case too. The only difference is that we don't have access to all this information via the press.

 

[ami]

Terri had to take the sick, whiney toddler to the athletic center daycare because she needed to have an excuse to use the athletic center's shower/bathroom. After working out( with groceries melting in the car?), she could change clothes and dispose of clothes if needed. In many photos, Terri has on dark colored athletic pants and she may have owned several pairs if she worked out numerous days/week. If one pair was disposed, nobody would notice because she has others.

Good point. She may have even had a locker at the gym with extra clothes, or brought a bag in with her containing work out clothes she could change into.

 

[Calliope]

Ear ache does not equal ear infection. Baby K is 18/19 months old. She is probably cutting jaw teeth (wasn't there a teething comment on TH's FaceBook page?). The close proximity of the jaw teeth to the Eustachian Tubes can cause ear pain.
So far, two of my three kids were soothed by riding when their ears hurt from teething.
We simply don't know, and making the leap that because TH said the baby's ear hurt meant she had an ear infection is how rumors get started. The unnamed source needs to give more details if they want this case solved.(I'm sure there is more to her time-line than they are giving to the media and it isn't LE) Speculation and Rumors do not make a person guilty.JMHO

Ah good point. Been a long time since I had a kid cutting teeth lol.

 

[ami]

I was thinking of a liar that I know . She was 18 when I met her and is in her 50's now.

I can't say about her lying types over the years as I severed the relationship quite early on. She is an ex-sister-in-law of my best friend.

At age 18 she told us she was a nurse and a truck driver and a mid wife.

She is in her 50's now and is in a professional position.

My friend and I were talking about how at her presentations she talks about her nursing career.

Apparently no one has checked. But as ex sisiter-in-law, my friend knows that she never completed college nor was she ever any kind of nurse. I will not go into how she got a professional position. It is not related to nursing.

She also had gastric by-pass and told everyone that she lost a lot of weight because she was sick.

People who lie get used to lying and getting away with it, so they don't even consider how outrageous their lies might be.

I also know a chronic liar, and like your friend's sister in law he had a large number of "former professions". If you believed him, at age 40 he'd already been a paramedic, a dive instructor, a drug enforcement agent, a roadie for a famous band and a boat captain - and this was all supposed to have come before his current position of a college professor (which he'd held for 5 years by then). Yeah. And there was little to no effort to make these things sound credible or to remember something he'd said before about the same time period to make his stories fit. So yeah, I do know there are some pathological liars who just have faith that everyone will believe even the flimsiest of stories. It's insulting to be on the receiving end of that crap.

 

[seeking truth]

bbm

The SO has on at least 2 occasions that I know of distanced themselves from what the family is stating, and in no uncertain terms stated the information did not come from LE. So whether they are doing that or not, they're certainly going to great lengths to deny it.

Could it be a matter of LE policy? They can't speak of the things that Kaine and Desiree are allowed to speak of?

So, LE denies that that certain information came from them, but they do NOT add that what Kaine and Desiree have stated is untrue. I think if Kyron's parents were telling falsehoods regarding the investigation, then LE would be duty bound (and would want) to come out and state that K and D are not being honest.

That hasn't happened. What reason do Kaine and Desiree have to lie? They want their son found. They know who "disappeared" him, LE knows who "disappeared" him (to me, that is more than obvious), so I would guess that LE is cheering on K and D, in the background, as they release information to the press, that LE itself shouldn't.

My opinion.

 

[human]

My grandson had chronic earaches/infections. The doc didn't put him on antibiotics right away each time, often it was (or at least started out as) a viral thing. And she wouldn't take him in unless he met the criteria his pediatrician required. Used to be they'd slap a kid on antibiotics for any ol' thing. Nowadays they are much more cautious and only do so if they are sure there's a bacterial infection brewing.

But if she is the loving mother that she is, I do not believe a loving mother would haul her baby that has an earache around like a sack of potatoes.

It's stressful on the adult as well as the child. There was NOTHING pressing in her day that would make it so that she could not abandon her plans and go home and take care of her baby.

Basically, the child had been in an uncomfortable environment since about 8 AM. Time to give it up with the stress, I say.

 

[Emeralgem]

I think what can reveal a lot of things about this timeline and we still don't know is WHEN this timeline was actually brought forward?
Was it immediately, with first contact with police...''this is what I did that day''??

Or this is a second or third or fourth account after perhaps she was confronted with cell pings? or a witness placing her somewhere in the rural area she was driving? Looking from those very first days at that rural area and I am sure the car was checked - even though it was supposedly at the mechanic

It does make a big difference to the ''plausibility'' of driving around to make the baby feel better if it was a story given to the police immediately or if she changed her story after being confronted with some evidence? I believe it is the second but that is just my feeling and opinion. And even if she did say this story to the police immediately, I am sure they asked the dad...hey is this something she has done before? Sooth the baby this way...driving her around? Because if not it is surely a big coincidence to do the very same day Kyron goes missing.

And there are still so many things missing from this timeline anyway. What time did the actual shopping took place? Was there any actual shopping done anyway? Which shops? What times? Is there video evidence? Did she run in with people who knew her and spoke with them? What did they say to the police? Did she tell the story of the ear pain at the gym as well? What were her conversations with the people at the gym that hour? Did she tell them she was at the school to see Kyron's project? What phonecalls did she make that day? Did her friends' cell pings place them at the same time at those rural roads?

The thing is I think the police already have the answers to the above bolded questions. It is just a matter of not being Florida like we got used to with the Casey Anthony case, seeing all the interviews coming to light almost at the same time the investigation was going on. We had the interviews with the friends, the tapes at the store with the stolen check, the video at the video store with Tony, they interviewed everybody like the tattoo shop owner, what they talked about that day she got the tattoo. I bet they have the exact same type of information in this case too. The only difference is that we don't have access to all this information via the press.

I was under the impression until this timeline was released that she couldn't recall where she went that day..She just couldn't remember..
I know I recall reading that was the case... It has even been discussed in one of the threads in this forum...JMO