TN - 4 dead, several injured at Waffle House, Nashville, Apr 2018 *Guilty*

[kimlynn]

If you think race didn't play a role in this crime, besides killing 4 persons of color, read this story on Reinking that
just happened last week at a grocery store where he was yelling racial slurs at a black woman and her black daughter.
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/statu.../2018/04/travis-reinking-waffle-house-gunman/

I don't know about the racial slurs but it did cross my mind about the 4 victims. IMO

 

[enelram]

I don't know about the racial slurs but it did cross my mind about the 4 victims. IMO

What I can't figure though, is his parents adopted a young black boy in 2011. I wonder how he felt about that.

 

[enelram]

more info on Reinking when he worked in Colorado- co workers thought he was wacked out.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-bond-revoked-suspect-waffle-house-attack-54694310

 

[x_files]

The judge originally set it at 2 million. Now it was revoked.

far too low for a mass shooting leaving 4 dead. I'm glad it was revoked!

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

And yet somehow he was sane enough to refuse to talk to LE And request a lawyer. I wonder if he was in touch with family during his time on the lam.

Waffle House murder suspect Travis Reinking is now in custodyhttps://www.cnn.com/2018/04/23/us/waffle-house-shooting-manhunt/index.html

If you’ve ever interacted with someone in the midst of paranoid delusions, they don’t all morph into hunch-backed, growling, wild-eyed Mr. Hyde-looking types with poor hygiene and unkempt hair, lurching down dark cobblestone alleys as they finger the fold-out razor in the pocket of their filthy wool coat.

They can obey traffic laws, hire a lawyer, use the bathroom appropriately, have cogent conversations unrelated to their delusion, cook a steak dinner, pay their bills on time, recognize their family, etc., etc.

At the same time, they can also meet the legal definition of being mentally incompetent, which really isn’t an easy standard to meet.

Not sure where I’m going with this, really, except I’ve noticed, generally speaking, there’s a sort of cognitive dissonance about mental illness, what it looks like, what it is, and how to deal with it.

I’m not knocking you at all, Doghairrules, I promise. Just thinking out loud.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Your post is perfect, CARIIS. Very well said.

There may have been shame/embarrassment of the mental illness, a feeling of not wanting to “air” their problems, that God was challenging or punishing them in some way, denial, avoiding what they might think is “emasculating” their son by restraining his independence, and all the while, their son’s problems are waxing and waning — a cycle of hope, coping, progress, confusion, regression, desperation — before the son finally spiraled out of control.

(^ That’s a he**a run-on sentence, btw. Lol!)

Insane is really a hangover from the 50's

There is no such thing as insane in the mental health field

Psychosis and delusions are the outgrowth of 1950's definition of insanity/

Insanity is like cheesy horror films

both psychosis and delusions wane in intensity and duration/

Only the acute are chronically either one or the other most go in and out -- experiencing periods of time or relative stability

Relative important here! When not actively psychotic or delusional most appear a bit off or different but can easily be in aisle 4 in a walmart super store!!

Typically there is an emotional component that is just "different" when stable - but few folks suffering with the malady run around talking to clouds constantly.

It more like in and out or up or down .

In a lot of times media gets reared up about family -- but most family systems are really not anticipating IMO that their family member will go take a machine gun and slaughter other humans.

He is 29 the families only recourse would be to go to court and prove that he cant cut his food count money do the laundry dress correctly drive pay bills to get any family system to take control over an adult

and the above mentioned had better be easily proven over time

I have found correlations with socioeconomic religion and education history in terms of how family systems view mental illness/

There are very real differences/

If we had a schizophrenic male 23 years of age

and had the same person in a lower socioeconomic setting and then the same
person in an affluent system generally speaking the exact same illness and its consequences are responded to very
differently

Lets make it T Giving. In both setting the person suffering loses it and turns over the dining room table with food flying all over

Just using an general example

In the lower socioeconomic / education family system in all likelihood the cops would
be called

In the affluent setting an ambulance would be called with a request to transport the individual to a psyc hospital.

There are also differences in terms of hiding a family member suffering with illiness/

Generally speaking in more educated family systems it is much more out in the open - is not an embarrassment and nothing to be ashamed of.

It is different .

In this context I found dads description of the situation very telling

"When he was having problems" struck me as kinda in denial of the situation/

Age impacts also. This generation is much more educated and empathetic than the previous generations.

If we notice the sister went over to deescalate him and had no fear of him

I would be very curious if they did try intervention earlier however.

Onset tho , in this situation pretty well fits sounds like he starting having more and more issues as he got older and that is often how it progresses.

I did get the sense that dad had been talking to him while he was on the run. However as parents would you not do the same thing for your child -- tell him to ask for a lawyer and hope he remembers to do so.

I have always had empathy for family systems in these situations.

In terms of public media perception tho IMO the family systems that are open and authetic with the media (Elliot ROgers folks ) imo tend to fair better in the public sphere.

But in this instance they appear to be very religious so there may be some of that this is gods choice kind of thing.

It would behove them imo to be straight up and acknowledge his history.

It seems to me the public tends to be kinder if the system is honest with the public -- not vanish

There are imo also gender differences in responding to a mentally ill family member

and that goes both ways/ By that I mean if it is a son or a daughter who is ill the system will respond differently -- as will the mother and the father

father to sick son different than with sick daughter -- its just socialization .

father to sick daughter would be different.

same with mom to son daughter

same with siblings

its complicated

for some reason tho I get a sense that dad really wanted his sons issued hidden and that his illness was a source of intense conflict within the marriage.

It just feels like dad was kinda over it but at the end of the day when your son goes and shoots up people it is kind of
parenty" for dad not to want his son to get himself in more legal trouble than he already is in

He was on a downward spiral got fired recently am confident dad was not all that thrilled exacerbates his decompensation

if we look at just what we know he was on a downward spiral stealing a car etc etc

the notion however IMO that he can say he wants a lawyer does not negate any of his illiness

The pants to me just struck me as totally afraid someone or something was coming after him -- i get a feeling of fleeing danger

the four minutes in the truck is also haunting imo for some reason there was some torment going on

the long term history we know of at this point is congruent with the reality that he suffered with profound mental illness and like most before him is not excuse to get away with a murder -- its the illness itself

Sick people have been killing people for decades

it feels more hideous because machine guns destroy more people than a revolver or knife


at some point our nation is going to have to address their addiction to the right to bear machine guns

Parkland shows that the next generation is heading in the right direction.

Until then ----- keep your news on ----


did you all hear about the mentally disturbed young man in canada ................

just my ramblings................

 

[x_files]

If you’ve ever interacted with someone in the midst of paranoid delusions, they don’t all morph into hunch-backed, growling, wild-eyed Mr. Hyde-looking types with poor hygiene and unkempt hair, lurching down dark cobblestone alleys as they finger the fold-out razor in the pocket of their filthy wool coat.

They can obey traffic laws, hire a lawyer, use the bathroom appropriately, have cogent conversations unrelated to their delusion, cook a steak dinner, pay their bills on time, recognize their family, etc., etc.

At the same time, they can also meet the legal definition of being mentally incompetent, which really isn’t an easy standard to meet.

Not sure where I’m going with this, really, except I’ve noticed, generally speaking, there’s a sort of cognitive dissonance about mental illness, what it looks like, what it is, and how to deal with it.

I’m not knocking you at all, Doghairrules, I promise. Just thinking out loud.

I think movies have distorted many of our views on mental illness.
I'm always taken off guard when I meet someone they seem to have it all together then I notice strange habits, they talk about voices or the CIA chasing them. I'm unsure if they are being melodramatic or actually believe the things they are saying.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

CARIIS, Please help us out here. In an ideal world, what should the parents/family have done to or with him?

What are the answers for parents faced with this problem? Was he fixable with early intervention or treatment?

Knowing his problems, I just can't get past his parents assisting him (car, truck, insurance, acquiring multiple weapons, jobs, paycheck, apt.) to go out and pretend he is normal and safe in public.

To me it was like sending a rabid wolf onto a playground full of school children. they weren't dumb.

Is this where we discuss how common it’s become for millennials to live at home? How much less they earn today compared to people their age working similar jobs a generation ago? You’re right. His parents aren’t dumb. His parents certainly didn’t believe their son was a rabid wolf, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t also in some sort of denial. I’m not understanding why blaming his parents is helpful in any way in this discussion, tbh. That said, I understand the full truth has yet to reveal itself.

 

[cybervampira]

I think movies have distorted many of our views on mental illness.
I'm always taken off guard when I meet someone they seem to have it all together then I notice strange habits, they talk about voices or the CIA chasing them. I'm unsure if they are being melodramatic or actually believe the things they are saying.

True. I knew a woman who had a regular life - house, work, husband, dogs, and all. She told me somewhere in between what she had for lunch and which hair conditioner she bought that the police was at her place the day before. She called them because she knew someone injected a toxic liquid through a tilted window. After they found no trace of anything toxic, she told me police is „one of them“. No crazy look, no awkward moves, you‘d never think this woman isn‘t right in the head... until she tells these stories. And she is so convinced of her truth that you become „one if them“ if you challenge her with logic.

 

[jjenny]

Is this where we discuss how common it’s become for millennials to live at home? How much less they earn today compared to people their age working similar jobs a generation ago? You’re right. His parents aren’t dumb. His parents certainly didn’t believe their son was a rabid wolf, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t also in some sort of denial. I’m not understanding why blaming his parents is helpful in any way in this discussion, tbh. That said, I understand the full truth has yet to reveal itself.

In this case it is very easy to blame the father, since he was given the guns after they were "confiscated" from his son, and promised to not give these guns back to his son.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

. I’ve never heard of a pursuit being halted because of rush hour traffic!!!

rsff

Really? I can’t tell if you’re joking.

https://dps.mn.gov/entity/post/mode...ves/Documents/Police-Pursuit-Model-Policy.doc

Factors Influencing the Termination of a Pursuit:
The driver of the primary unit and the supervisor shall continually evaluate the risks and likelihood of a successful apprehension of the suspect, and shall consider terminating the pursuit under the following conditions.

1. The conditions of the pursuit become too risky for the safe continuation of the pursuit.

2. A supervisor orders it terminated.

3. Information is communicated that indicates the pursuit is out of compliance with policy.

4. Communication is broken.

5. Visual contact is lost for a reasonable period of time or the direction of travel cannot be determined.

6. The suspect is known and could be apprehended later, and delaying apprehension does not create a substantial known risk of injury or death to another.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

more info on Reinking when he worked in Colorado- co workers thought he was wacked out.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-bond-revoked-suspect-waffle-house-attack-54694310

Interesting background. Thanks for the link!

From the link:

Davidson County Sheriff Daron Hall said 29-year-old Travis Reinking has been "compliant" and "cooperative" since he was transferred to the jail late Monday after he was captured near the apartment where he lived.

(snip)

Hall said the prevalence of mental illness and the availability of guns in the community are a dangerous mix and "if we don't do something about it, shame on us — all of us."

 

[black_squirrel]

If you’ve ever interacted with someone in the midst of paranoid delusions, they don’t all morph into hunch-backed, growling, wild-eyed Mr. Hyde-looking types with poor hygiene and unkempt hair, lurching down dark cobblestone alleys as they finger the fold-out razor in the pocket of their filthy wool coat.

They can obey traffic laws, hire a lawyer, use the bathroom appropriately, have cogent conversations unrelated to their delusion, cook a steak dinner, pay their bills on time, recognize their family, etc., etc.

At the same time, they can also meet the legal definition of being mentally incompetent, which really isn’t an easy standard to meet.

Not sure where I’m going with this, really, except I’ve noticed, generally speaking, there’s a sort of cognitive dissonance about mental illness, what it looks like, what it is, and how to deal with it.

I’m not knocking you at all, Doghairrules, I promise. Just thinking out loud.

That reminds me of what happened to me a while ago. I was in Starbucks, minding my own business, when a well-groomed/dressed man came in and started talking to me like we were old friends. He said he met my brother in Washington DC (I don't have a brother there). He started talking about secret wire-tapping (which was actually in the news around that time), but he took it to a whole different level. I forgot the details, but essentially he was telling me that I should keep up the good work against THEM. Anyway, it was clear he was suffering from paranoid delusions. Then he bought a newspaper and as I watched out the window when he was leaving, I saw him get in a car and drive off....

(I have had also other experiences, where I got nearly attacked by a homeless, presumably schizophrenic person who gave me a toy car.)

 

[Doghairrules]

If you’ve ever interacted with someone in the midst of paranoid delusions, they don’t all morph into hunch-backed, growling, wild-eyed Mr. Hyde-looking types with poor hygiene and unkempt hair, lurching down dark cobblestone alleys as they finger the fold-out razor in the pocket of their filthy wool coat.

They can obey traffic laws, hire a lawyer, use the bathroom appropriately, have cogent conversations unrelated to their delusion, cook a steak dinner, pay their bills on time, recognize their family, etc., etc.

At the same time, they can also meet the legal definition of being mentally incompetent, which really isn’t an easy standard to meet.

Not sure where I’m going with this, really, except I’ve noticed, generally speaking, there’s a sort of cognitive dissonance about mental illness, what it looks like, what it is, and how to deal with it.

I’m not knocking you at all, Doghairrules, I promise. Just thinking out loud.

So that’s interesting to me. I really wasn’t aware that they could be in both delusional and non delusional spaces at the same time. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

 

[cujenn81]

Agreed. I'd love to know what causes that? Not in reality? shock? Mentally ill or side effects or withdrawals of psych meds or street drugs? Or are they just psychopaths?

My best guess is that the empty eyes we (unfortunately) see too often is a symptom of emotional detachment. The cause of which could be any number of things, I'd imagine -- drugs, post trauma shock, mental illness, head injury, brain disease, psychopathy, etc. To me, it almost looks like a thousand-yard stare.

 

[mpnola]

Interesting background. Thanks for the link!

From the link:

Davidson County Sheriff Daron Hall said 29-year-old Travis Reinking has been "compliant" and "cooperative" since he was transferred to the jail late Monday after he was captured near the apartment where he lived.

(snip)

Hall said the prevalence of mental illness and the availability of guns in the community are a dangerous mix and "if we don't do something about it, shame on us — all of us."

^^^^ That right there. What Hall said. That is key. Because people with mental illnesses are no more rabid wolves than people with cancer are toxic tumors. It really is a heart breaking situation for everyone, including the person with the mental health issue. And just like no one would want all cancer patients ignored and left to figure out how to handle it on their own, nor should mental health. But it is much easier to portray them as monsters. Sad truth is, most are never monsters, but those who are could have probably been stopped. With ongoing treatment and meds, it is generally manageable. And when it's not, hospitalization would be appropriate until stable. But out of all the things that are needed, only meds exist. I know cariis explained all this very well. We talk til we are blue about gun control, but shame on this country for not speaking even more strongly about mental health control.

I will say what I have said many times. Have you ever had a dream so vivid that you wake up and it still feels real? It takes a while for your heart to stop racing or to stop crying because it felt so real? Well, with Schizophrenia, I describe it as your dream state breaking through into your awake state. They live with that feeling! But the day doesnt go on and the dream starts to fade. So they are awake, but things that are not real exist just as though they are real. It is torturous for the individual. So torturous that I have had several clients commit suicide because they couldn't take it anymore. We need compassion, understanding and treatment options.

Keep in mind, I am not speaking for this shooter. What he did should be punished. I am speaking for what could have been done for him years ago. I am speaking for what needs to be done for those suffering now, to minimize the occurrences. We will continue to see these things escalate because now we are at a breaking point of multiple years passing with no intervention. I can say with the state of things, I am glad I am no longer working in that field. The flip side is I wish I could help. For the sake of us all.

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[cujenn81]

So that’s interesting to me. I really wasn’t aware that they could be in both delusional and non delusional spaces at the same time. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

Oh yes, my mother has bipolar disorder and unfortunately I've seen this happen a few times. It's amazing, really. She would say the most delusional, off-the-wall stuff to me and my dad and it was plain as day she was having a psychotic breakdown, but somehow she could act perfectly sane in front of the doctor just long enough to convince them she didn't need to be hospitalized.

Thankfully, my mom has never been violent or had paranoid delusions about strangers (her delusions are usually religious in nature --- e g. she's been sent to earth as the chosen one to give the world a secret message from God, etc. Although, she did think there was a poisonous gas in our house one time and made us all leave in the middle of the night.) Also thankfully, my mom is very med-compliant, so these manic/psychotic episodes have been few and far between.

 

[taniekag]

Not to make light of this, but I hope most people would call 911 if a nude guy was walking down the street.

Not to make light of this... But he was spotted at a grocery store prior to the shooting shouting out profanities and racist comments. One witness left with her child after no one working at the store asked him to leave.

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[mpnola]

Oh yes, my mother has bipolar disorder and unfortunately I've seen this happen a few times. It's amazing, really. She would say the most delusional, off-the-wall stuff to me and my dad and it was plain as day she was having a psychotic breakdown, but somehow she could act perfectly sane in front of the doctor just long enough to convince them she didn't need to be hospitalized.

Thankfully, my mom has never been violent or had paranoid delusions about strangers (her delusions are usually religious in nature --- e g. she's been sent to earth as the chosen one to give the world a secret message from God, etc. Although, she did think there was a poisonous gas in our house one time and made us all leave in the middle of the night.) Also thankfully, my mom is very med-compliant, so these manic/psychotic episodes have been few and far between.

That's pretty typical. And frustrating! Lol.

There are definite "categories" that come up in delusions over and over. Religion, government, celebrities, someone after them to kill them, demons, and definitely think "someone" is trying to control.their brain waves through the phone, tv, microwave, etc. The stereotypical wearing a tin hat thing is actually real. They will try lots of stuff to block the waves on being controlled.

The brain is a strange and powerful place!!! I always think about that when I think about my dreams. I am not a good story teller, but my brain sure can put on full shows several times a night! Always a different story. How does that happen?

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[enelram]

Wonder what was so important on his laptop that he took it to computer store to have it erased.

Listen to odd audio of phone call to store after it was erased. Does his voice sound "druggy" ??

http://www.wsmv.com/story/38030802/...hard-drive-weeks-before-waffle-house-shooting