TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #5

[perico]

I'm frustrated with certain particulars regarding the case as well, and I think some of the criticisms of community politics are valid, but I am very concerned about the developing negative portrayal of our local LE in various media outlets, including WS. If we want them to eventually be successful in supporting a prosecution of this case against the appropriate party, we are not helping the cause by portraying them as incompetent and unconcerned. After all, they are what we've got, and maybe they'll do a better job if we can support and encourage them now. Just possibly they are doing a better job than they are getting credit for--just behind the scenes.

I think the game plan has changed in a huge way, since the initial stages of the case where the goal was to bring the case to the spotlight quickly. At that time, it was a "search and rescue" mission. Now that most people believe that is no longer realistic, techniques need to change.

In my opinion, this is just not the time and place for pointing out all the flaws with our town government. That can all happen in a different forum, perhaps within the community and through our elected officials. :twocents:

Pearl, I understand your concern, but these problems have been going on for a long time, and it's sad that it takes a case such as this to bring it to people's attention. It shouldn't take a tragedy to open people's eyes to the fact that the majority of the SMPD (not every one, but many of them) are bullies. They've gotten away with it for years, and though I can understand the concern about Arlene saying too much to the media... but... when you've been fully searched, accused of drug use when you don't use drugs or drink at all for nothing more than driving with an expired tag, or get tailed from one end of the city limits to the other for years for apparently nothing more than entertainment of law enforcement when you have children in the car, then you form a very negative opinion of our department.

 

[RWB]

Pearl, I understand your concern, but these problems have been going on for a long time, and it's sad that it takes a case such as this to bring it to people's attention. It shouldn't take a tragedy to open people's eyes to the fact that the majority of the SMPD (not every one, but many of them) are bullies. They've gotten away with it for years, and though I can understand the concern about Arlene saying too much to the media... but... when you've been fully searched, accused of drug use when you don't use drugs or drink at all for nothing more than driving with an expired tag, or get tailed from one end of the city limits to the other for years for apparently nothing more than entertainment of law enforcement when you have children in the car, then you form a very negative opinion of our department.

Sorry to Pearl if this bothers you but Perico is right I know of people coming home really late up the mountain from a emergency room visit and the only way they would believe them was their bill from the ER. To my knowledge there is no curfew for being on the roads after midnight. My BIG question is has any on WS ever seen a missing person investigation handled in this why (no questioning the husband, on searching of property) when there has been such a difference in what MP and Gail's family and friends have told them. IMO alot of time was lost in the beginning that you can never get back.

 

[Pearl*]

Sorry to Pearl if this bothers you but Perico is right I know of people coming home really late up the mountain from a emergency room visit and the only way they would believe them was their bill from the ER. To my knowledge there is no curfew for being on the roads after midnight. My BIG question is has any on WS ever seen a missing person investigation handled in this why (no questioning the husband, on searching of property) when there has been such a difference in what MP and Gail's family and friends have told them. IMO alot of time was lost in the beginning that you can never get back.

I think your bolded question is an excellent question. I think the remainder is off topic and potentially damaging to Gail's case, again due to the negative portrayal of the same LE we are depending upon for help right now.

Please understand I'm not even addressing whether I agree or disagree with the points you and Perico have brought up. I'm only saying that in my opinion this is not the appropriate forum for those points.

 

[perico]

Sorry to Pearl if this bothers you but Perico is right I know of people coming home really late up the mountain from a emergency room visit and the only way they would believe them was their bill from the ER. To my knowledge there is no curfew for being on the roads after midnight.

Correct, there is no curfew. I learned about 18 years ago as a teenager when I was hauled in by the SMPD for "prowling." It turned out there was no such law. The cops were pretty stunned when my best friend's father turned out to be one of the more respected lawyers and longtime assistant DA in the Chattanooga area, and he showed up and tore into them.

 

[RWB]

That is Cool... I agree this is about GAIL..in my post I was giving a Hamilton county resident of over 50yrs point of view of our area and what someone AD and Gail's family was probably faced when with in their search. That someone from our area would not know. You have to admit Signal Mountain is a rare community (GOOD and bad).

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks knew it had to involve the police (LE) took me a while.

I believe what you are saying is true but I have to say the SMPD IS not your typical police department. I have witnessed Soccer Moms going up to the police and tell them how to run the department and they know that keeping bad light of the community is the number one thing. IMO I believe the police wanted this to stay a closed family matter and it would all go away. There is alot that goes on up on the mountain that is totally brushed under the rug. Remember their are alot of Chattanooga movers and shakers on the mountain actually on both of the mountains. I have even told a friend who lives on the mountain about a registered sex offender living in her neighborhood and would not believe me and came up with excuses (wrong data in system, etc., etc.) It is the mountain way. I hope and pray for continued comfort for Gail, her family, children and her friends.

If it makes you feel any better, it is not "just" the SMPD anymore because they are working with the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department. And while they may be "in charge" of the main investigation, this story is getting bigger as it spreads to yet another state - Mississippi.

And it's not hush-hush anymore, so they aren't in control of everything. The story is all over the internet, the mainstream media, and the last article in the Free Press went national.

So . . . I think we just need to be patient and wait because things may be going on behind the scenes of which even Arlene is unaware. The system is slow, but this is not going to be brushed under the rug.

 

[perico]

I think your bolded question is an excellent question. I think the remainder is off topic and potentially damaging to Gail's case.

Please understand I'm not even addressing whether I agree or disagree with the points you and Perico have brought up. I'm only saying that in my opinion this is not the appropriate forum for those points.

Pearl,
It relates to this case as I've said that from the first days that the TBI needs to be involved because the SMPD has never given me, or many others, the slightest hint that they have the ability to handle a situation such as this. As in the past, these things get swept under the carpet. When I first started posting here after Gail went missing, I stated here that it would only be a matter of time before the SMPD would come under this type of scrutiny because the majority of them don't know how to handle people, the press, or any sort of critical views. Now that they have, they feel the need to send "threatening texts" (ala MP with his letters from his PI), instead of handling the situation and criticism from Arlene like a professional confident in their ability to do their job. In those regards, I am being proven correct in my prediction that Gail's friends/family would get frustrated with the SMPD very quickly.

 

[perico]

and it frustrates me that Gail's friends and family are having to go through this while trying to locate their loved one.

 

[believe09]

I also agree with Believe's sentiments, but at the same time, RWB is correct. The SMPD is not your typical police department, and in this instance, I have a feeling that Arlene has learned this, or she wouldn't have come out and stated as much.

OK-I dont live there. But as another pointed out, HCSO is also lead on this case. They are big, well funded, and well respected. So far I have not seen anything about SMPD that gives me pause or concern regarding their actions...but as I said I dont live there.

ETA: There is a pecking order fwiw-local PD has jurisdiction and they invite the next jurisdiction in...for example HCSO was brought in. Then the state police, then TBI, then FBI. Only if it is all warranted. JMO.

 

[RWB]

If it makes you feel any better, it is not "just" the SMPD anymore because they are working with the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department. And while they may be "in charge" of the main investigation, this story is getting bigger as it spreads to yet another state - Mississippi.

And it's not hush-hush anymore, so they aren't in control of everything. The story is all over the internet, the mainstream media, and the last article in the Free Press went national.

So . . . I think we just need to be patient and wait because things may be going on behind the scenes of which even Arlene is unaware. The system is slow, but this is not going to be brushed under the rug.

My thing is look what it took to get to this place (more attention) and also is it a matter of stepping on toes that the Hamilton County have not officially made a search or questioning. And if it was a matter of not letting it out that they had I believe that the MSM would know of it and report it.

 

[KathyJ]

Question...do we know for a fact that the residence of MP has not been searched? Even if it's just a brief look around. I am guessing without probable cause the police cannot just walk in and search. From what I can tell there is not enough to go on for a search warrant. We have to remember this has to be done by the book, not by the way we think it should be done or what they should be doing. Everything counts if this turns into more than a missings persons case and if it ends up in court down the road, they will find any mistake they can that the police make.

As I have stated, the police have been very quiet and that speaks volumes to me. It does not mean they are not doing their jobs. They don't owe us or anyone else an explanation right now---again any slip up on their part could cause huge problems in the future...we have seen it happen

 

[happy409]

Thanks, perico. I am glad to know that. I was only guessing.

I don't believe we doubted the children's closeness to their mother at all (or that was my opinion, I cannot speak for Columbo). My issue was -had MP manipulated them in some way about their mother. His personality fits the bill, IMHO. Hoepfully, that will clarify my opinion in the earlier post.

 

[ThoughtFox]

My BIG question is has any on WS ever seen a missing person investigation handled in this why (no questioning the husband, on searching of property) when there has been such a difference in what MP and Gail's family and friends have told them. IMO alot of time was lost in the beginning that you can never get back.

I don't blame LE because MP took his own sweet time before he reported his wife missing. That is not the fault of the police.

The same thing happened in the Hailey Dunn case - a missing child, but because of miscommunication/lies/both she wasn't reported missing for 48 hours. A search was done of the house because it was the last place she was seen, but other searches were done later - months later. So not every search happens right away. In the Caylee Anthony case, they searched the parents home after the body was found to connect key pieces of evidence.

Lawyers here on WS have explained that most search warrants have to be extremely specific. They can't search for blood, for instance, if there's not apparent death, and Gail was supposed to have driven away. See the problem?

It's possible that MP let police look at the things Gail left behind, her driver's license and stuff, but then he balked at a full house search. We don't know everything that has happened.

From the beginning, though, they did not find any evidence that Gail had mental illness, so the police did not believe everything MP told them. And discovering the stuff about the extra-marital affair lends more creedence to the idea that Gail was paranoid for a darn good reason.

If they find the car empty without Gail, then it can be considered a crime scene.

They have to do this by the book because an illegal or unecessary search could get evidence thrown out in court in the future, and nobody wants that.

 

[KathyJ]

Pearl,
It relates to this case as I've said that from the first days that the TBI needs to be involved because the SMPD has never given me, or many others, the slightest hint that they have the ability to handle a situation such as this. As in the past, these things get swept under the carpet. When I first started posting here after Gail went missing, I stated here that it would only be a matter of time before the SMPD would come under this type of scrutiny because the majority of them don't know how to handle people, the press, or any sort of critical views. Now that they have, they feel the need to send "threatening texts" (ala MP with his letters from his PI), instead of handling the situation and criticism from Arlene like a professional confident in their ability to do their job. In those regards, I am being proven correct in my prediction that Gail's friends/family would get frustrated with the SMPD very quickly.

In all fairness does any smaller community police department know how to handle a situation like this? I am from the outside of Chicago and most towns around me including the one I live in is a large town and we still have two missing women in this area.
We had one husband who could not keep his face out of the media and the other was barely seen on tv. Speculation is that the Hubbies were involved......but these cases are still open and the two women have never been found.....

 

[Sleuthy1]

It was crimson. I have seen two in the past several weeks (two different ones.) Several red ones as well.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-jeep-wrangler-4wd-2dr-rubicon-colors.htm
GAIL'S JEEP IS 4 DOOR BUT COLORS WOULD BE THE SAME AS THOSE OFFERED ON THE 2 DOOR (I would think)...Looks like her color was officially called RED ROCK CRYSTAL PEARL

 

[ThoughtFox]

My thing is look what it took to get to this place (more attention) and also is it a matter of stepping on toes that the Hamilton County have not officially made a search or questioning. And if it was a matter of not letting it out that they had I believe that the MSM would know of it and report it.

I don't know how to say this - I live in Hamilton County too. Do I like everything that happens with the police here? NO.

Is Signal Mountain ... shall we say, an insulated place? To me, yes.

But I think the Hamilton Co. District Attorney is probably well-aware of what is going on in this case. And as the evidence piles up against MP, the DA will have to take action or face criticism that certain communities get special treatment. Believe me, they don't want that, above all.

So I hate to write the word ~ Grand Jury ~ because it might give people too much hope, and we have no way of knowing if this is headed that way. But for all we know, Police and the DA might be piling up these documents and neighbor/family/friend testimony in a file somewhere getting ready for what seems like an inevitable showdown. Then they could use it to pressure both MP and his girlfriend to come clean. I thought it was interesting the other day that the other woman has her own defense attorney.

 

[Columbo]

I don't believe we doubted the children's closeness to their mother at all (or that was my opinion, I cannot speak for Columbo). My issue was -had MP manipulated them in some way about their mother. His personality fits the bill, IMHO. Hoepfully, that will clarify my opinion in the earlier post.

I didn't question how close they were to their mom until I found out that MP might possibly have been alone with them more while Gail was traveling for business. At that point I started to wonder if he had tried to bend their minds. I imagine these kids are really smart and can't be fooled. I mean, they have to sort of play MP's "game" (I hate to use that expression) in order to survive, since he is the sole guardian now (?) I guess. They have to live with him, his nonsense and tomfoolery (I'm softpedaling his character here--I'm sure it's way beyond nonsense and tomfoolery).

 

[ThoughtFox]

Question...do we know for a fact that the residence of MP has not been searched? Even if it's just a brief look around. I am guessing without probable cause the police cannot just walk in and search. From what I can tell there is not enough to go on for a search warrant. We have to remember this has to be done by the book, not by the way we think it should be done or what they should be doing. Everything counts if this turns into more than a missings persons case and if it ends up in court down the road, they will find any mistake they can that the police make.
As I have stated, the police have been very quiet and that speaks volumes to me. It does not mean they are not doing their jobs. They don't owe us or anyone else an explanation right now---again any slip up on their part could cause huge problems in the future...we have seen it happen

OMG - we wrote almost the same thing at the same time! :crazy:

Needless to say, I totally agree!

 

[Jade]

For me Arlene’s article only made me more concerned about a thought which I have had that another poster was brave enough to post albeit while waving a white flag.

I see the evidence of the possibility of suicide.

I can think that would be a reason that privacy would be protected- for Gail’s sake, for the children’s sake.

IF,IF,IF she had a made a comment, even to MP, that might lead anyone to think that it might be indication she might hurt herself then it is most defiantly a private family matter.

I am unsettled about GP calling while at the lake home saying she was scared and wanted Adele to pick her up.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp

Arlene said that Saturday night Gail called her three times begging, "Please come get me. I'm afraid."

Not me and the children?

Personally my first words back would have been of what? MP? Did GP not tell Adele that SM LE had been called over the separate car issue?

Why did GP not call the Wetumka police and get an RO if she was afraid?

Why make plans to have the talk with the children together the next weekend in that same location?

I think she was afraid for herself of herself.

A very sensitive and emotional point of a very, very difficult situation:

Arlene said Gail told her the plan was for Matt to come down to the lake house on Easy Street and tell the kids about the upcoming separation.

Gail and Arlene visited that night for about an hour at Mike's house. They were preparing for Mike's 50th birthday celebration the next day on the 30th. She said, "Gail was quiet. It was not the normal Gail." She said she had no idea it was the last time she would ever see Gail Palmgren.

Arlene said she was expecting to visit with Gail and the children again on the 30th. Then she found that Gail had suddenly driven back to Chattanooga.

Arlene said, "If I had any idea she was going to do that, I would have hidden her keys."

A MSM first person report that GP was depressed:

She added, "She was a little depressed. Who wouldn't be in her situation?"

Untreated depression is the number one cause of suicides.
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html

Had she made up her mind?

Gail dropped the kids off at the house. Then she drove off in the crimson red Rubicon with the "Life is Good" tire cover and the Goofy emblem on the trailer hitch. A neighbor who waved said Gail just looked straight ahead.

You all can flame me and say she would never do it, etc, etc.

If only suicide were so easily predicated or so rare and not so very tragic.

Wonderful, loved, educated people make one bad decision way too often.

I know there is a lot of discussion about SM and their PD and the way things are and all but I think there may be a deeper reason for their silence.

Of course, while I am writing this solemn missive SMPD are probably cuffing MP.

All imo

 

[believe09]

O/T and on topic-you cannot believe the number of red jeeps up here with "life is good" wheel covers. You can make yourself crazy looking at them!