TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #9

[JBean]

I think one thing to consider is that it is more likely than not that Gail knows way more about medication than her doctor. This could go swing the pendulum either way as it relates to using meds offlabel. IOW, she could be way more likely to do so if she has an intimate understanding of how a med works or way less likely for that same reason.

 

[confused]

Just wondering did FB change the picture too?
ETA..My understanding is the picture on her FB page was changed also....JMHO

The picture did not change...I looked just 5 minutes ago, and it is the same as it has been for months. The shadowy looking photo of Gail and Matt kissing.

 

[BeanE]

HI Sleuthy. My document does not read exactly like that. I suspect we are looking at different documents.
Mine says:

>>The Defendant has been under the care and treatment of Psychiatrist Dr. D S_______. Montgomery, Alabama for quite some time. In June 2010 she lost her job and began experiencing significant bouts of depression. She is currently prescribed significant prescription medication such as [same as listed in Sleuthy's quote].See affidavit Matthew P_____, Exhibit A.<

They are similar but yours has a material change.

Oh this is what I have also from the portion of the document that's posted over on Facebook. *Not* 'began medication' but the above 'began experiencing significant bouts of depression'.

Ex parte motion for restraining order & temporary custody
11-0364 date stamped May 6

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=231526236891072&set=p.231526236891072&type=1&theater


Sleuthy, what is your document?

 

[KathyJ]

Oops! Sorry, yes let me clarify that MP removed AD on his page not off of Gail's and I do
agree that FB seems to be having some changes so it may just be that.

It does not surprise me that MP would remove AD, I have seen her posts on FB and they are not pretty. I would hope she is not saying anything on MP's page, it could be why he removed her. JMO

 

[confused]

:twocents:The pic on Gail's FB page prior to her disappearance was a similar pic (a wide shot). This mornings replacement pic is the cropped version of the same pic.

No, it is exactly the same. If it changed on Arlene D's page, she must have changed something there to show photos differently. It is EXACTLY the same on my screen as it has been for many months.

 

[confused]

Oops! Sorry, yes let me clarify that MP removed AD on his page not off of Gail's and I do
agree that FB seems to be having some changes so it may just be that.

It does not surprise me that MP would remove AD, I have seen her posts on FB and they are not pretty. I would hope she is not saying anything on MP's page, it could be why he removed her. JMO

I am not at all surprised either, her posts have become harrassing and threatening. It would be terrible if one of the children accidentally saw what was being said.

 

[Pearl*]

Someone with more medical experience will hopefully show up here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think situational depression works that way. That is, if it's diagnosed as situational by a professional and the situation cannot or does not change, it's not going to turn into treatment-resistant depression. It's just going to remain situational depression.

Treatment-resistant means IIRC that specific drug and therapeutic treatments have been tried and have not worked. The cases I'm familiar with are all of people who were on treatment for multiple years before being diagnosed with treatment-resistant depression -- you've got to try many treatments first before you know it's resistant, is my understanding.

Probably so from a diagnostic standpoint. I'm not so sure from a practical standpoint. There's also the chance that side effects came into play and made a less common approach sensible.

I still think it's significant that Adderall and Wellbutrin are both on the "stimulating" end of the spectrum. I know that Wellbutrin isn't classified as a stimulant but it is considered one of the more stimulating antidepressants.

I also think it's significant that, in a case of depression, SSRI's aren't in the picture at all in this list. Since they are the most common antidepressants, I think it becomes more likely that her depression wasn't controlled by the most common approaches.

 

[Sleuthy1]

BBM
Sorry, I just meant Adderall is not a casually prescribed drug. Wellbutrin more so, but not Adderall. Patients can become very dependent on Adderall and it can have serious side effects. I believe a reputable physician would be hesitant to start her on that unless the benefits outweighed the risks. But, if she had ADD and had taken other drugs in the past with limited or diminishing results, it may have been initiated for that reason. I was under the impression that she had been taking it for a long time, but according to what Sleuthy just posted, it was just started last year along with the other medications? I still think we just don't have enough information, to be completely honest. We have no idea what she was complaining of or exactly why they were prescribed or if she was even taking them. Especially now, considering they were prescribed last year. I have been addressing the typical uses for those drugs with the other information we have. If she is prescribed Adderall and someone who knew her says she had ADD, I just tend to go with that. But, I understand not everyone feels the same way.:twocents:

BBM
Remember...that list was compiled by Matt P for his separation court docs with Gail listed as a defendant. So if it seems that he (MP) is saying that the psychiatrist (Dr. S) prescribed these 4 meds after Gail lost her job in June 2010... This would be untrue (IMO). AD says she knew Gail was prescribed Adderall and amitriptyline HCL, prior to being laid off in June 2010. The Wellbutrin did not start until Jan 2011. The Sonata, AD was not sure about when that was prescribed or if Gail took it at all. So the 4 meds (as listed by MP in the separation documents) DID NOT ALL START (were not prescribed) for Gail right after being laid off in June 2010, as MP seems to imply in the court docs.

 

[Sleuthy1]

HI Sleuthy. My document does not read exactly like that. I suspect we are looking at different documents.
Mine says:

>>The Defendant has been under the care and treatment of Psychiatrist Dr. D S_______. Montgomery, Alabama for quite some time. In June 2010 she lost her job and began experiencing significant bouts of depression. She is currently prescribed significant prescription medication such as [same as listed in Sleuthy's quote].See affidavit Matthew P_____, Exhibit A.<

They are similar but yours has a material change.

You are correct...the actual paperwork is on BGHN. My mistake ...significant bouts of depression. She is currently prescribed significant prescription such as... Sorry didn't mean to leave that out...was on the phone and trying to type at the same time..:banghead:Thank you for catching that JBean...thanks for keeping me honest :innocent: Must say though it is on the BGHN page as written in court docs(not hiding anything...as some may think...not you of course JBean )...is there to read.

 

[glorias]

No, it is exactly the same. If it changed on Arlene D's page, she must have changed something there to show photos differently. It is EXACTLY the same on my screen as it has been for many months.

Hmm, that makes me think that FB has done some changes. If FB changed the cropping/size of the picture, then those of us who have the picture in our browser's cache will see the exact same photo as before until the cache is cleared. So maybe that explains the difference. Just a thought.

 

[glorias]

Now that we know the prescriptions did not start as soon as Gail lost her job, then yes, I personally believe it's possible that Adderall was for treatment-resistant depression.

I don't know what I personally think about that. It is definitely possible Gail could have gotten a Ph.D. and held a good job with a lot of hours and travel with treatment-resistant depression, but I don't know how likely it is. There is someone I know who has treatment-resistant depression. He barely achieved his Ph.D. (it took several extra years, he got poor reviews and grades) and he cannot work because his illness is so debilitating. Of course, these things affect everyone differently, so my experience is merely anecdotal.

 

[Pearl*]

Now that we know the prescriptions did not start as soon as Gail lost her job, then yes, I personally believe it's possible that Adderall was for treatment-resistant depression.

I don't know what I personally think about that. It is definitely possible Gail could have gotten a Ph.D. and held a good job with a lot of hours and travel with treatment-resistant depression, but I don't know how likely it is. There is someone I know who has treatment-resistant depression. He barely achieved his Ph.D. (it took several extra years, he got poor reviews and grades) and he cannot work because his illness is so debilitating. Of course, these things affect everyone differently, so my experience is merely anecdotal.

[bbm]

I think that's an excellent point. Does anybody on here know what school was like for Gail? Was she a high achiever who didn't have to work too hard, or was she more the determined underdog?

 

[McSpy]

I would agree with you, except for the fact that Gail is missing without explanation, and mental health diagnoses and medications have become key issues regarding the case. We have allegations of mental instability, with a medication list that has become part of the Court record supposedly in support of the claim.

It raises many questions, and I'd like to exhaust all the possibilities we can come up with. Surely somebody can easily answer some of the questions I asked above. Then we can check them off the list.

The thought did occur to me that she may have had an accident, because she was in an emotional state (distracted, can't concentrate). Maybe no crime had happened at all.

 

[Emeralgem]

The picture did not change...I looked just 5 minutes ago, and it is the same as it has been for months. The shadowy looking photo of Gail and Matt kissing.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree..

 

[JBean]

[bbm]

I think that's an excellent point. Does anybody on here know what school was like for Gail? Was she a high achiever who didn't have to work too hard, or was she more the determined underdog?

I have been told she is a smart gal that worked hard.

 

[confused]

Hmm, that makes me think that FB has done some changes. If FB changed the cropping/size of the picture, then those of us who have the picture in our browser's cache will see the exact same photo as before until the cache is cleared. So maybe that explains the difference. Just a thought.

I just went to see the photos that Arlene D posted showing the difference she saw. I have seen the photo that she says was the original one, on Gails photos. It is of Gail and Matt I believe. It has never been the little profile pic, avatar, whatever you call it that pops up when I click on Gails page. The "new" according to Arlene photo is EXACTLY what I have always seen as Gail's profile photo/avatar. No change, nope, na da.

You could be correct though, it may be that Arlene was looking at a very old browser cache somehow, and it finally updated. don't know exactly what she did, but no change here. (I tried it out on my personal computer, my neighbors computer, and my husbands laptop...also my Iphone, all the same)

 

[Snowbunny]

I feel sorry for Gail. She was under a lot of stress. She had lost her job, was belittled by her husband and then she found out her husband was playing her. That's alot to have to deal with. To me, her whole world was crashing around her. It was similar to what I went through and believe me there were times I didn't know which way to turn and I was just beside myself. I didn't have a job to speak of, although I was retired from the military my exhusband took off with my military retirement check the first month I threw him out, and I didn't get child support for nearly three years there after. I had kids to support and a house payment, utility bills, etc. I didn't know which way to go but I went out and got my first civilian job and got my own business going strong. My mom knew that my husband had been putting change in jars and when he moved out she hid the jars which added up to over $800 and then we found out he had been hiding money in between pages of books in the library downstairs so I ended up finding over $4000 he didn't know I found. Because of that I was able to function those first few months before I found a job, but understand he cleared out the bank accounts, my children's bank accounts, my children's mutual funds and all the joint stocks and bonds and so his plan was to basically leave us with nothing. My kids each had a $35000 mutual fund which he took and their saving accounts consisted of birthday money etc which they had received over the years and my son alone had over $7000 in his bank account that his father took. My husband even took my kids' savings bonds. All I can say is that Gail must have felt overwhelmed by everything going on in her life.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

A car accident theory makes all the sense in the world to me....nervous, tired, stressed out, a curvy mountain road....all things that would seem to put you at an elevated risk for an accident. The only things I can't reconcile with an accident are 1) the fact that her very red Jeep has not been found, and 2) if there was an accident, I would think it's likely that her phone would have been somewhere in the vicinity of the accident when it last pinged. So even if her Jeep had rolled out of sight somewhere, the phone would at least have narrowed the search area. Yet we haven't found Gail. In addition to organized searches coming up empty, no hunters, off-roaders, bird watchers, curious kids, Roy Kronk types, have found Gail, the Jeep, the phone, or anything else that could be associated with Gail. The longer that pattern continues, the less and less likely an accident seems to be, although nothing can be ruled out.

 

[Emeralgem]

I am not at all surprised either, her posts have become harrassing and threatening. It would be terrible if one of the children accidentally saw what was being said.

IMHO. The children possibly learning that their father is the one responsible for what has happened to their mother will be far more horrific and devastating to them than anything AD has said about their father...JMHO

 

[Pearl*]

I'm particularly concerned right now, because if I understand the TN laws correctly, if she doesn't either visit the children, or make a child support payment toward them, by Aug 30 - just 2 1/2 weeks from now - her parental rights can be terminated, and I would not want to see that happen for the children's sake.

This isn't so easily done in Tennessee, although the law does provide for it. Specifically, the Courts don't terminate unless there is a step-parent in the picture who is ready to adopt. If the Courts will do it, I haven't seen it.