TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

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  • #741
Another missing woman from TN. Apparently this is only an hour away from where the Bobos live

TN TN - Karen Johnson Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Don't think this is related to Holly....

To me this sadly falls into the category of wife looking to divorce, (filed Oct 11th) who then drops kids off and goes missing with husband last person we know she had contact with. Draw your own conclusions.

Link to Karen Johnson Swift WS thread:
TN TN - Karen Johnson Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
  • #742
Something interesting in the search for KJS, LE saying:

"Right now you don't want to put untrained personnel in the area that could damage, lose or overlook potential evidence."
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1780107.html

Got to wonder is this was a lesson learned from Holly's case.
 
  • #743
Here you can see the open garage/carport at the bottom right of the house, it's partially obscured by trees so maybe there are better views. But it gives you an idea:

6309592669_2572d2047c.jpg


I posted earlier wondering about where the abductor hid. If there's a door off the house to the carport then he had to get to her before she got into her car and started it or ran back into the house. It's not like she had to cross a big open area where she was vulnerable. This does make me think he had a good idea of her schedule and knew which car was hers.
 
  • #744
Don't think this is related to Holly....

To me this sadly falls into the category of wife looking to divorce, (filed Oct 11th) who then drops kids off and goes missing with husband last person we know she had contact with. Draw your own conclusions.

Link to Karen Johnson Swift WS thread:
TN TN - Karen Johnson Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
--------

On the face of it, that is what it looks like. The perp. (it may have been the last person known to have seen her, or, the last person who actually saw her) could have used the "mysterious" disappearance of Holly to make it look like a stalker of beautiful, blond women abducted Karen as well.

On the other hand, there may actually be a "stranger" who is targetting beautiful, blond women in that vicinity.

I'm not so ready to place this in the "as it seems" category yet.

Certainly can appreciate your opinion, and you are probably correct, IMO.
 
  • #745
Of course, nothing explains the injury/blood from Holly and then the seemingly casual walking away, unless of course he had a gun.

Sorry, I disagree with you there. Too many cases where the abductor had a knife, and the victim was in shock and did what the perp. demanded, acted as the perp. instructed, because he/she was afraid of being killed right there and then.
 
  • #746
Sorry, I disagree with you there. Too many cases where the abductor had a knife, and the victim was in shock and did what the perp. demanded, acted as the perp. instructed, because he/she was afraid of being killed right there and then. We've discussed this at length.

Oaky-a weapon.
 
  • #747
BBM

Thanks for all your hard work in putting this timeline together.:woohoo: What a great job. Do you think the Familial DNA will implicate someone close to home or do you think an 'IDI' and one of the intruder's family members is listed in the DNA database? Just being curious here.

JMHO, MOO, etc.

My opinions only, no facts here:

This is a difficult question. It may be that a close relative of the perpetrator has committed a felony AND is in the existing DNA database. More importantly, people who have committed NO crimes in their life can voluntarily submit a DNA sample to determine if a close relative was involved with a crime.

The power of familial DNA testing is thus two-fold. First, it can show if a relative of the suspect has committed a felony. Secondly, and more importantly, it gives the investigators an excuse to approach various people and ask if they would be willing to voluntarily submit a DNA sample to see if any of their close relatives were involved in a given crime. The refusal to submit a voluntary sample might help investigators confirm suspicions.

But don't get me wrong. Lots of innocent people would also refuse to give a voluntary DNA sample, for the simple reason that they do not want Big Brother watching them.
 
  • #748
Something interesting in the search for KJS, LE saying:

"Right now you don't want to put untrained personnel in the area that could damage, lose or overlook potential evidence."
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1780107.html

Got to wonder is this was a lesson learned from Holly's case.

My opinions only, no facts here:

I want to state at this point that I personally do not believe that the initial investigation of the Bobo home was compromised by curious on-lookers. What the dog or dogs "saw" is possibly key to this case.

Another thing- during the most recent(?) interview of the Bobos, the host did not ask a single question that I would have asked. As my friend Sherlock Holmes would say about the interview: "that definitely is a three-pipe problem."
 
  • #749
  • #750
The latest version does place Clint with a gun but no mention of whether or not he went out after the suspect.

I'm having computer trouble....so posting link for others to read

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330

yes thats my point. I mentioned that once or twice over the last 6 months and was met with skepticism from people saying oh no Clint never went out with a gun, etc. But it was right there in the first reports... A HUGE problem with online news is that stuff just vanishes. pages are taken down, links go bad, or a story is updated so it has the same url but different content.

The initial reports were that this was a home invasion, Clint had seen his sister being taken away, and that he had gotten a gun and tried to pursue them. That makes a whole lot more sense than the gobbley gook phone tag shadows in the garage stuff we got fed later on.
 
  • #751
Here you can see the open garage/carport at the bottom right of the house, it's partially obscured by trees so maybe there are better views. But it gives you an idea:

6309592669_2572d2047c.jpg


I posted earlier wondering about where the abductor hid. If there's a door off the house to the carport then he had to get to her before she got into her car and started it or ran back into the house. It's not like she had to cross a big open area where she was vulnerable. This does make me think he had a good idea of her schedule and knew which car was hers.

Note that the carport is obscured by a tree on the bottom right side of the house. I assume there is a door to the carport on that back side of the house and that door probably opens into the backside of the garage (now enclosed). I am sure the suspect knew where her car was becuase at that time there should have only been two vehicles there at the house and it would not have been hard to find that Holly drove a black Mustang.
 
  • #752
Just read the October 3rd Jacksonsun article again. I still can't get over no mention of the silhouettes in the garage! In that article, CB states "It was after I spoke with (Mom) that I walked into the kitchen and looked out the window and saw (Holly) and a man dressed in camouflage walking toward the woods,"

He says he saw "a man". Like it was the first time he saw this man. In the previous story, he saw a man and hb in the garage/carport. wouldn't he say he saw hb and the man.

I know it sounds silly, but I just can't get over no mention of the silhouettes, especially since in the previous report he says that is why he got in contact with his mom.
 
  • #753
from Jacksonsun article

After a few moments, frustrated, she called the house again, and Clint told her that Holly and Drew were out at the edge of the yard walking toward the woods.

"Oh, my God, Clint!" Karen told her son. "That is not Drew! Call 911!"

..
Karen said she told Clint to get a gun and go after the man. She hung up to call 911 again and reached Decatur County

(that had to be in the same conversation. So HB and the abducter was walking into the woods and KB tells CB to get a gun and go after them)
..

CB walks outside, sees blood. As he is walking towards the woods, the neighbor comes up, and CB dials 911. He hears the police coming as he is dialing.

okay, what took CB so long to get the gun and get outside???? it was long enough for the police to arrive. He have been told LE arrived about 10 minutes after HB walked into the woods. That means it took at least 10 minutes for CB to get a pistol and get outside.
 
  • #754
Everything seems so pastoral... Clint hears strangers talking outside... walks around the house some... hears people in the garage and sorta looks in and sees silhouettes... walks around the house some more to call his mom... doesnt go back in the garage but sees Holly walking in the yard with the stranger... talks to mom some more... walks around the house to get a gun... walks around the yard but talks to a neighbor...

I just dont get the laissez-faire behavior if 1) you heard strangers in your yard 2) you saw silhouettes in your garage 3) your mom said the stranger was NOT who Clint thought it was.

In 20 minutes this morning I got up, got dressed, went to go get gas, got coffee, went to the storage unit to get a pet cage and came home. And I was not in any particular hurry!
 
  • #755
Does anyone have a link, that still works, to the news video of the interview where DB leaves in the middle? I can't seem to find. TIA.

IMO This isn't a typical abduction. They know why she was taken. They might not know exactly who, but they, family and LE, know what it's about. I'm frustrated because of the lack of information, but I believe the LE is keeping things close because the public really can't help- they don't think it was random and that the abducter(s) could be 'anywhere' with her so no need to plaster media with information on what to look for. It seems to be a waiting game now. Waiting for someone to screw up, waiting for someone to talk, and, I sincerely hope not, but waiting for someone to find her body. So I guess my real frustration is that there is nothing I, or the general public, can do to help even if they released all the information they had. That info would probably make the abductor(s) seal up tighter and longer. This is just my opinion.
 
  • #756
Snipped the timeline:


My opinions only, no facts here:

This is my updated time-line for the morning that Holly Bobo disappeared, including more recent newspaper reports. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL! Before reading this, note that Holly’s brother apparently did not know that Holly’s boyfriend was across the county hunting turkey that morning. I have tried to avoid interpretation, except where exact times or event sequences must be deduced from the newspaper reports. Some of the events may be simultaneous. In this updated time-line, I have included a few personal comments, clearly distinguished.

4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
****note that earlier newspaper accounts may indicate a 7:30 time for the scream AND that the neighbors called 911 at this same time, curiously the 7:30 time for a 911 call was supposedly mentioned by an official; it seems that this is now corrected to 7:40- but did someone call 911 before Holly’s mother?****
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up because their 'house dog' is barking, witness is himself; note that I have previously suggested that he may have awakened as early as 7:40 to 7:45 because this allows enough time for all of the following incidents to occur)
7:50-ish (looking out the window Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and sees the silhouettes of two people kneeled down by the car, he also hears voices of two people, witness is himself)
7:50ish- (Holly’s brother calls his mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there and the two people he saw, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood and a spilled can of soda by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish: (brother calls 911 as he hears sirens, witness is presumably the dispatcher- note that this call may have been at 7:59 based on a supposed official comment)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives “just after 8 o’clock”)
8:00-ish (the immediate woods where Holly was last seen were searched by up to three officers; this is both indicated and contradicted by these two statements: “Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt said as soon as deputies arrived, they took a statement from Clint and began searching where Holly was last seen” AND “Wyatt said deputies did not want to enter the area or allow others to do so for fear that they would impair some evidence that might be found and because they were waiting on a search dog and trying to gather information leading them to go a certain direction.”)
later than 8:15: (the State Patrol brought in a search dog or dogs; it is implied that this was the same day that Holly disappeared)

Remember that much of this is based upon various news accounts and that can explain seeming discrepancies. What is interesting is that there are some accounts that the first 911 call could have come from the neighbor, prior to the first call to 911 from Holly’s mother. However, I suggest that this reflects garbled early news accounts. IF the State Patrol dogs were used and IF they were used the same day Holly disappeared, I believe they could track her. I will repeat myself from earlier posts- what the dogs “saw” is key to understanding this case. One other point of interest- if I called someone on every occasion that I heard a shriek or scream, the phone lines would be tied up half of the time. I think that this was a particularly blood-curdling and loud scream that the neighbors KNEW immediately was important.

Great job on this timeline Mr. Noatak!


I extract two key elements, facts if you will, from it:

1) Looks like the perp had ten (10) minutes with Holly before taking her way from the house.

2) Agree, the scream had to be very distinctive/scary/loud.

The calls and actions of the family and LE in the beginning hours of this case are just that, and I would not draw any conclusions - just the miss-mash of things way things happened.

These two facts are what we need to think about, focus upon, and what do they tell us?
 
  • #757
  • #758
This was posted on Karen Swift's thread but thought looking at the map was interesting. Is there a pattern?

http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/newmap.jpg


http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2...-who-have-vanished-from-the-southern-midwest/

It's tough to say. On the surface it looks interesting but when you look at the cases more closely...some of these may not be abductions. There is the strong possibility Lauren died of an overdose, the main suspect in Paige's disappearance is her friend and Karen's husband seems to be coming under scrutiny.
 
  • #759
Sorry, can you tell me what college Holly was going to? How about her brother?
 
  • #760
Does anyone have a link, that still works, to the news video of the interview where DB leaves in the middle? I can't seem to find. TIA.

IMO This isn't a typical abduction. They know why she was taken. They might not know exactly who, but they, family and LE, know what it's about. I'm frustrated because of the lack of information, but I believe the LE is keeping things close because the public really can't help- they don't think it was random and that the abducter(s) could be 'anywhere' with her so no need to plaster media with information on what to look for. It seems to be a waiting game now. Waiting for someone to screw up, waiting for someone to talk, and, I sincerely hope not, but waiting for someone to find her body. So I guess my real frustration is that there is nothing I, or the general public, can do to help even if they released all the information they had. That info would probably make the abductor(s) seal up tighter and longer. This is just my opinion.

I tend to disagree with you about it being typical, at least in a way. I think the abductor targeted Holly because of lust, which the case almost every time a woman is attacked by someone other than her husband or boyfriend. Either the abductor had been spurned by Holly before, maybe without her really realizing it, or he became obsessed with her without her realizing it. We've seen that pattern play out over and over. I was watching the ID channel last weekend and saw the show about Shannon Melendi's abduction again. She was a college student who played softball. The umpire at one of her games targeted her. People at the game said the umpire was paying an inordinate amount of attention to her and it turned out he was the one who attacked her. I think of Annie Le, after she was attacked and murdered at work people were very surprised that it seemed like her killer had acted solely out of work related rage. But it was eventually revealed that he had sexually assaulted her.

I know there is the possibility of a jealous ex or somebody with a grudge against the family but I think the odds are that this is a crime of lust-driven power by someone who had not been intimate with her in the past.

As far as the lack of info...I just don't know. One thing I know is that LE hates to release info to the family, much less the public. That goes for pretty much every investigation. And the less they have, the less chance they'll get desperate enough to release anything at all. Holding precious details back gives them a vital investigative tool.
 
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