TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[mountainguy777]

It makes alot more sense that Holly was abducted right where the blood was found, and taken in a vehicle right away. The walking into the woods, kneeling in the carport, and other sightings appear to be window dressing for what happened. The question is why?

 

[concentric]

IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.

Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.

Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.

 

[mountainguy777]

IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.

Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.

Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.

His frame of reference was sound enough to call his mom and ask her about holly, and where she should be. His frame of reference was clear enough after that to grab a gun.

 

[Oriah]

Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-

I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).

There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.

In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.

There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation.

I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.

 

[Oriah]

IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.

Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.

Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.

I agree.

When there is no frame of reference, as you stated.... most people (imo) are playing catch-up in their mind for a long, long time.

Even with training and experience, I feel like I am often scratching my head and going "What the heck??"

 

[~n/t~]

His frame of reference was sound enough to call his mom and ask her about holly, and where she should be. His frame of reference was clear enough after that to grab a gun.

and to preserve the crime scene after the fact. Whata guy! Karen in a panic wanted to go after Holly but Clint stopped her and the rest of them.

"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.

BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.

Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.

one of the local sheriffs depts has stopped using tracking dogs citing their proven inability to provide any reliable assistance and that it wasted time in waiting around for the dogs to be brought to crime scenes. This was at least a year ago. No idea if they ever started using them again after the moratorium. Helicopters are favored now.

I think they can be useful but are also overhyped or over relied on.

In this case its probably fairly obvious that the dogs didnt find any trail anyway or if they did the trail dindt lead anywhere productive. I maintain there was a vehicle close by so that could easily account for the lack of a trail past a certain point.

 

[cluciano63]

I can't imagine how much use dogs would really be anyway; it seems a vehicle was used fairly quickly, and if Clint is to be believed, they already know where she went into the woods. And she isn't there now, evidently.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-


There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation.

I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.

I think we know that but there is nothing we can do about it now, after the fact, so its really a moot issue at this point. What is done is done.

 

[Oriah]

I think we know that but there is nothing we can do about it now, after the fact, so its really a moot issue at this point. What is done is done.

I agree that what has already happened, has happened- except for my own clarification and analysis of course, which I am admittedly OCD about, lol. The more people that understand the challenges facing SAR dogs and handlers and LE, the better.

My other thought is that it is not necessarily a moot point at this point, actually. The blood found at the scene is cadaveric scent.

It's certainly been awhile... but a properly trained HRD K9 could scent off of that. Arduous, but possible. If Holly had an injury, wound or any other scent DNA evidence at the site- and was not Kimstered from the site where she was last seen... seems like we might have a new option to work with. Kwim?

 

[~n/t~]

one of the local sheriffs depts has stopped using tracking dogs citing their proven inability to provide any reliable assistance and that it wasted time in waiting around for the dogs to be brought to crime scenes. This was at least a year ago. No idea if they ever started using them again after the moratorium. Helicopters are favored now.

I think they can be useful but are also overhyped or over relied on.

In this case its probably fairly obvious that the dogs didnt find any trail anyway or if they did the trail dindt lead anywhere productive. I maintain there was a vehicle close by so that could easily account for the lack of a trail past a certain point.

I also believe there was a vehicle involved.

 

[mountainguy777]

Its weird to see what Clint said about keeping everyone back from the woods as to not contaminate the scene. Is this the same clint that doesn't know if there's a turkey involved? One who hears his phone and voices In the garage, but no scream?

 

[OldSteve]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I have followed this case closely and I feel that the latest press releases are like Autumn leaves falling from the trees, further obscuring the ground searches and befuddling my fellow sleuths. The most recent timeline is not of investigative use, UNLESS the authorities verify it. Have the police verified this timeline? But there are two critical questions that I wish to ask of my buddies here: were the tracking dogs employed the same day that Holly disappeared? Is there any OFFICIAL report as to whether the dogs tracked scent into the woods or stopped short of the woods?

I ask this so as to clear up some misconceptions. Dogs can track much more effectively in the woods than in a city. The more undergrowth, the better. I could care less if neighbors are tramping around- even a mediocre dog could track a single scent through that. What and when the dogs did and smelled are key to this case. Does anybody have facts regarding this?

Nice to see you are back here! Enjoy your style!
Can't answer your question though...
Seem we are stuck in a time-warp about details of April 13... not really getting anywhere... not finding Holly....

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I agree that what has already happened, has happened- except for my own clarification and analysis of course, which I am admittedly OCD about, lol. The more people that understand the challenges facing SAR dogs and handlers and LE, the better.

My other thought is that it is not necessarily a moot point at this point, actually. The blood found at the scene is cadaveric scent.

It's certainly been awhile... but a properly trained HRD K9 could scent off of that. Arduous, but possible. If Holly had an injury, wound or any other scent DNA evidence at the site- and was not Kimstered from the site where she was last seen... seems like we might have a new option to work with. Kwim?

At this point, after 6 months of rain storms, cold, heat, tornados, etc. I do not believe any scent could be followed anywhere. But, IMHO there was no big scent trail to be followed anyway since IMHO there was a vehicle within 50 yards or less of the house that she was put into.

The blood itself is important, however, especially its location (not known for certain) and its amount (not known for certain).

 

[Oriah]

I can't imagine how much use dogs would really be anyway; it seems a vehicle was used fairly quickly, and if Clint is to be believed, they already know where she went into the woods. And she isn't there now, evidently.

cluciano63, only using your post to jump off of here... not directed to you at ALL.

I hope no one minds this analogy, b/c this is not related to Holly's situation in any way at all; and therefore completely O/T. But I'd like to describe a missing person situation in order to try and explain what may be a similar situation, as to what may have happened the morning Holly was abducted. Hope that makes sense. :waitasec:

Recent experience, here:

A parent had custody of their very young child for a weekend. Parent takes child to a state park.
Child is reported missing by the parent at a certain- and very specific- location in park. SAR K9's are called out to try and trail child. K9's trail childs' scent to an embankment by water source- and then lose scent. Scent of parent of child who reported the accident, is trailed past that point. Was parent running back to get help after child fell in water source? Was parent responsible for childs' disappearance? Was the child passed off to someone else and taken away in a vehicle? Did the child accidentally fall in the water, which is why the specific dogs out on the trail lost it at the waterline?

Regarding Holly's case- there is not a lot difference here, kwim? It does NOT mean that SAR K9's are ineffective. Just that they are as only as effective as the facts and scents they are provided with. Just like us humans.

 

[Oriah]

At this point, after 6 months of rain storms, cold, heat, tornados, etc. I do not believe any scent could be followed anywhere. But, IMHO there was no big scent trail to be followed anyway since IMHO there was a vehicle within 50 yards or less of the house that she was put into.

The blood itself is important, however, especially its location (not known for certain) and its amount (not known for certain).

I agree that after 6 months no live trail can effectively be run. But there were several vehicles within 50 yards of the residence at the time- and then a whole bunch more. (?) That does not mean that an HRD scent is not valuable at this point- in fact, I believe the exact opposite. But that's just me, I guess?

 

[Plumeria5]

Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.

 

[MysteryAddict]

Its weird to see what Clint said about keeping everyone back from the woods as to not contaminate the scene. Is this the same clint that doesn't know if there's a turkey involved? One who hears his phone and voices In the garage, but no scream?

I repeat my earlier thought-

Is this the same Clint that doesn't yell to the first LE on the scene--

"Help! some guy just took my sister into the woods in that direction!!!"

Almost seems like he didn't want the cops to jump out of their cars and run
immediately into those woods to rescue Holly doesn't it??

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I know NOTHING about SAR dogs, so I won't even go there. However if as some of you have indicated, Holly was taken in a vehicle maybe "50 yards" from where she went into the woods..........
There was a 10 minute window from Clint's 7:50 siting to the 8:00 arrival of first responders, right??

Well don't you think if Holly was moved that quickly from the last place she was seen (going toward the woods), Clint should have been able to see some kind of vehicle for transport.......and if Clint did not see it, wouldn't you think the first responders would of found evidence of tracks from the entry point into the woods? Dog's or no Dogs--I think humans should have been able to figure that out, eh?

I cannot understand how someone who was last seen at 7:50 by her brother, and LE was there 10 minutes later, disappears???? Now I know people tramped all over the damn place, but come on, IN 10 MINUTES????

 

[Plumeria5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3yWDFdkPTY

Not the Bobos house but apparently a fairly close neighbor to the south? 275 Swan Johnson Road.
Shows the lay of the land, a pond. Not sure how far this house is from the Bobo's 600 block.